Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hypothetically: Adam is a government employee. He hooks up with hot Russian chick, she's a Russian spy, Brigita.

Adam loves all the stuff that Brigita brings.Lingerie, excitement, the works.

Adam gets a promotion that puts him in contact with classified information.

At Brigita's suggestion, because she finds his work so exciting, Adam begins to email work stuff to his private server. He tells Brigita the password so she can log on via the web. As long as nothing is marked he thinks he can type or send whatever he wants to his private email server. He can even ask fellow employees to email him there for convenience. Even though he is not sure exactly what, he's pretty sure there's classified material in there.

Presuming no one ever finds out about the very hot Brigita has Adam broken any laws?

[edited]

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Seriously?   I thought I'm supposed to be upset about all of this b/c classified information was leaked and now you're telling me it happens all the time.

We did our best to keep this election interesting.  In fact, we may have do something about Trump so we won't have a blow out.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Hypothetically: Guy A is a government employee. He hooks up with hot Russian chick, she's a Russian spy, Ms. B.

Guy A loves all the stuff that Ms. B brings.

Guy A begins to email work stuff to his private server. He tells Ms. B the password. As long as nothing is marked he can type or send whatever he wants to his private email server. He can even ask fellow employees to email him there for convenience.

Presuming no one ever finds out about the very hot Ms. B has Guy A broken any laws?

Why don't you use real names?  The As and Bs make it hard for me to follow.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Why don't you use real names?  The As and Bs make it hard for me to follow.

Ha. Ok. I will edit the above. I may add a pic or two. Maybe a couple more facts. I may need to get Arizona Ron in here.

 

[NutterButter]

We did our best to keep this election interesting.  In fact, we may have do something about Trump so we won't have a blow out.

I'm actually a little bummed that this is going to be such a blowout. I really enjoy presidential election season and this one just isn't going to have the same fire.  I don't even believe that trump cares that much so even the idea of seeing him lose worse than mccain is losing its appeal.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I'm actually a little bummed that this is going to be such a blowout. I really enjoy presidential election season and this one just isn't going to have the same fire.  I don't even believe that trump cares that much so even the idea of seeing him lose worse than mccain is losing its appeal.

I am much more interested in the FBI's corruption investigation of the Clinton Foundation anyway.  I hope that is still in progress.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Hypothetically: Adam is a government employee. He hooks up with hot Russian chick, she's a Russian spy, Brigita.

Adam loves all the stuff that Brigita brings.Lingerie, excitement, the works.

Adam gets a promotion that puts him in contact with classified information.

At Brigita's suggestion, because she finds his work so exciting, Adam begins to email work stuff to his private server. He tells Brigita the password. As long as nothing is marked he thinks he can type or send whatever he wants to his private email server. He can even ask fellow employees to email him there for convenience. Even though he is not sure exactly what, he's pretty sure there's classified material in there.

Presuming no one ever finds out about the very hot Brigita has Adam broken any laws?

[edited]

Much better.

What's the question again?

 

[NutterButter]

I am much more interested in the FBI's corruption investigation of the Clinton Foundation anyway.  I hope that is still in progress.

Oh, there's another investigation.   Super.  Hopefully we'll have some committee hearings on that as well.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Much better.

What's the question again?

Hot Russian chick wants job as server? I forget.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Oh, there's another investigation.   Super.  Hopefully we'll have some committee hearings on that as well.

Comey has total credibility by recommending no indictment for the emails.  I can't wait to hear what he has to say about the Foundation.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Much better.

What's the question again?

This is the actual point:

Dead Drop.

There is nothing substantively different from what Hillary did (aside from you know an actual spy working with her) and a classic "dead drop" in espionage. You leave something out in the open and then someone comes and gets it. If someone wanted to do that today they could easily do it using private email.

 

[Politician Spock]

Hypothetically: Adam is a government employee. He hooks up with hot Russian chick, she's a Russian spy, Brigita.

Adam loves all the stuff that Brigita brings.Lingerie, excitement, the works.

Adam gets a promotion that puts him in contact with classified information.

At Brigita's suggestion, because she finds his work so exciting, Adam begins to email work stuff to his private server. He tells Brigita the password so she can log on via the web. As long as nothing is marked he thinks he can type or send whatever he wants to his private email server. He can even ask fellow employees to email him there for convenience. Even though he is not sure exactly what, he's pretty sure there's classified material in there.

Presuming no one ever finds out about the very hot Brigita has Adam broken any laws?

[edited]

No flag, no foul.

You forgot to mention that Adam is the ref. 

 

[Rohn Jambo]

This is the actual point:

Dead Drop.

There is nothing substantively different from what Hillary did (aside from you know an actual spy working with her) and a classic "dead drop" in espionage. You leave something out in the open and then someone comes and gets it. If someone wanted to do that today they could easily do it using private email.

Yes, this was the first thing that came to my mind when the news broke.  Too bad the FBI did not find substantiating evidence.  Either the hackers were really good, or they did not have to break any locks because the doors were left wide open.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No flag, no foul.

You forgot to mention that Adam is the ref. 

This would be the call now post-Hillary.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yes, this was the first thing that came to my mind when the news broke.  Too bad the FBI did not find substantiating evidence.  Either the hackers were really good, or they did not have to break any locks because the doors were left wide open.

It doesn't matter. That's one reason the GN statute exists.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Seriously?   I thought I'm supposed to be upset about all of this b/c classified information was leaked and now you're telling me it happens all the time.

Not from me!  I'm going to be dismissive that any of the 50 or so secrets should be classified until given something more than counts and labels.  I trust Comey's "extremely careless" position from the perspective of the current expectations of government  employees in this case, but I suspect he would be unwilling to share for obvious reasons enough to judge that comment from the perspective that almost nothing that is classified should be classified that I hold

 

[cobalt_27]

Comey has total credibility by recommending no indictment for the emails.  I can't wait to hear what he has to say about the Foundation.

The Clinton Foundation is the answer to the question why she set up the private server.  FWIW.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

The Clinton Foundation is the answer to the question why she set up the private server.  FWIW.

All the more reason to investigate the Foundation directly.

 

[dparker713]

This is the actual point:

Dead Drop.

There is nothing substantively different from what Hillary did (aside from you know an actual spy working with her) and a classic "dead drop" in espionage. You leave something out in the open and then someone comes and gets it. If someone wanted to do that today they could easily do it using private email.

A dead drop involves a person trying to send information to another.  Are you claiming Hillary was trying to send classified information to some unknown third party?  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

A dead drop involves a person trying to send information to another.  Are you claiming Hillary was trying to send classified information to some unknown third party?  

Read my posts.

 

[dparker713]

Read my posts.

I did and that was the impression I got from your posts.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

This is the actual point:

Dead Drop.

There is nothing substantively different from what Hillary did (aside from you know an actual spy working with her) and a classic "dead drop" in espionage. You leave something out in the open and then someone comes and gets it. If someone wanted to do that today they could easily do it using private email.

Nothing has changed since your similar analogy last night.  What Hillary did is most certainly "substantively different" from these analogies for the reasons explained to you last night.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Nothing has changed since your similar analogy last night.  What Hillary did is most certainly "substantively different" from these analogies for the reasons explained to you last night.  

I'm talking about the statute, not Hillary.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I don't feel as good as I did before the Tuesday announcement, certainly. I think Hillary has deliberately misled about some of this. 

But I also don't believe, as I did Tuesday morning, that it's as bad as I thought it was. Corey's admission that Hillary might not have recognized what was classified, plus the Politifact article which discusses the differences in opinion about what is and what isn't classified, all of that made me feel better. 

Mostly though, my feeling from the very beginning of this was confirmed: most of the criticism against Hillary has come from tech types, both here and elsewhere. But the job of Secretary of State, like the job of President, is not a techie job. I don't WANT Hillary Clinton, or the President, to be concerned with what is and what is not classified and where to store it. Just as I also don't want her dealing with security at embassies. These duties are beneath her, IMO. I want her trying to solve international disputes, fight terrorism, make trade deals, negotiate. I want her solving the BIG PICTURE. That's why I've always felt this entire issue of emails is irrelevant to her qualifications to be President. 

But it's not like she set up the servers herself and made a technical error on something she wasn't qualified to install. She WAS making the big picture decisions. You're just kidding yourself if you think this was all technology mistakes. The decisions to conduct state business on a personal server, to stonewall FOIA requests, to delete 30,000 emails - and to lie about it all - were all her judgment and had nothing to do with trying to do the "techie job" of Secretary of State.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Read my posts.

That is the problem.  We do!

 

[MaxThreshold]

That is the problem.  We do!

His posts aren't the problem.  Yours are - nothing but smoke screens and diversions and excuses to defend your hero.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That is the problem.  We do!

Whoops, right, I should have said 'try to understand' not 'read'.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm talking about the statute, not Hillary.

Maybe you should read your posts!  

There is nothing substantively different from what Hillary did (aside from you know an actual spy working with her) and a classic "dead drop" in espionage.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe you should read your posts!  

Where I pointed out there was no espionage in what Hillary did. And that the statute is designed to prevent espionage.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I did and that was the impression I got from your posts.  

I'm talking about the reason for the statute. I'm not saying Hillary did a dead drop. I said the opposite.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

But it's not like she set up the servers herself and made a technical error on something she wasn't qualified to install. She WAS making the big picture decisions. You're just kidding yourself if you think this was all technology mistakes. The decisions to conduct state business on a personal server, to stonewall FOIA requests, to delete 30,000 emails - and to lie about it all - were all her judgment and had nothing to do with trying to do the "techie job" of Secretary of State.

I never bought her explanation that she set up her own private server for convenience.  It is not something other people would do in the same circumstance.

 

[[scooter]]

This is the actual point:

Dead Drop.

There is nothing substantively different from what Hillary did (aside from you know an actual spy working with her) and a classic "dead drop" in espionage. You leave something out in the open and then someone comes and gets it. If someone wanted to do that today they could easily do it using private email.

Hillary's server only contained emails that were received by (or sent from) Hillary. In order for her to pull off a "dead drop", she would have needed someone else to acquire the classified information and then email it to her so that it would be stored on her unsecured server. That seems unnecessarily complicated for spy work.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hillary's server only contained emails that were received by (or sent from) Hillary. In order for her to pull off a "dead drop", she would have needed someone else to acquire the classified information and then email it to her so that it would be stored on her unsecured server. That seems unnecessarily complicated for spy work.

Note: I'm *not making an accusation about Hillary. I'm talking about the purpose of the statute. TIA.

eta - if you're responding to my point, sorry. If you mean what someone in that situation would need to do it would be enough for him to know he's receiving classified information, it would more or less be a net which would catch whatever it would catch. And if it was something specific then the employee could either forward it himself or ask the source employee to just send it to his private email. As long as it's not marked, it's all ok.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Note: I'm *not making an accusation about Hillary. I'm talking about the purpose of the statute. TIA.

Maybe this is why the State Department has to continue the security review so they can set up better guidelines going forward.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe this is why the State Department has to continue the security review so they can set up better guidelines going forward.

Hopefully it's a call for reform, I agree.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Where I pointed out there was no espionage in what Hillary did. And that the statute is designed to prevent espionage.

It is substantively different for Adam to copy and request others to copy emails where "he's pretty sure there's classified material in there"  and for Hillary to communicate with others on a medium where there is a presumption that nothing is ever classified.

Now a very long time ago I stated that Hillary should have known that this presumption was a fallacy as "spillage"  (a term I probably didn't use way back when) was relatively common.  You have rejected this notion for all of this time for a variety of reasons from the source supporting it being common to the very notion that "anyone can do it".  Even if you have come around to accept this it is quite a stretch to argue that the fallacy is the equivalent of "pretty sure there's [will eventually be] classified material in there",

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It is substantively different for Adam to copy and request others to copy emails where "he's pretty sure there's classified material in there"  and for Hillary to communicate with others on a medium where there is a presumption that nothing is ever classified.

Now a very long time ago I stated that Hillary should have known that this presumption was a fallacy as "spillage"  (a term I probably didn't use way back when) was relatively common.  You have rejected this notion for all of this time for a variety of reasons from the source supporting it being common to the very notion that "anyone can do it".  Even if you have come around to accept this it is quite a stretch to argue that the fallacy is the equivalent of "pretty sure there's [will eventually be] classified material in there",

My point there was that Adam could simply claim when asked that he too believed nothing was classified.

No law broken.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

My point there was that Adam could simply claim when asked that he too believed nothing was classified.

I'd guess it much easier to convince a half dozen federal investigators that you are being truthful with such claims when you are actually being truthful.  Or at least when these seasoned investigators can reasonably understand how your "lies" are just reasonable errors of facts (such as missing improper markings) or actually likely true in context (like the setup was for convenience of using one device).  Or that your actions were done in the open rather than in the sneaky fashion of your hypothetical.  Of course Adam might be able to sell all of his lies to even these pros at spotting the smallest inconsistencies, unlike the abilities of a serial liar that isn't even very good at lying such as Hillary.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'd guess it much easier to convince a half dozen federal investigators that you are being truthful with such claims when you are actually being truthful.  Or at least when these seasoned investigators can reasonably understand how your "lies" are just reasonable errors of facts (such as missing improper markings) or actually likely true in context (like the setup was for convenience of using one device).  Or that your actions were done in the open rather than in the sneaky fashion of your hypothetical.  Of course Adam might be able to sell all of his lies to even these pros at spotting the smallest inconsistencies, unlike a serial liar that isn't even very good at lying such as Hillary.  

The only thing to clue someone in is if they are emailing to a personal email address or asking others to. Nothing suspicious about that, even though it's prohibited. And as we know there's no way to really recognize classified information without markings and it's easy to overlook teh markings when they're there. The guy does it for convenience so he can work at home or read his email on his phone. Totally believable.

 

[timschochet]

I didn't want to discuss this in the other thread but from a political standpoint, I am fearful that tonight's shootings of police will help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Just as in 1968, there may be a surge for law and order which helps the Republican candidate. 

 

[squistion]

I didn't want to discuss this in the other thread but from a political standpoint, I am fearful that tonight's shootings of police will help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Just as in 1968, there may be a surge for law and order which helps the Republican candidate. 

It is too early to assess what impact this will have on the general election.

 

[Politician Spock]

I didn't want to discuss this in the other thread but from a political standpoint, I am fearful that tonight's shootings of police will help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Just as in 1968, there may be a surge for law and order which helps the Republican candidate. 

This helped Hillary. Her carelessness is old news now. 

 

[dparker713]

I didn't want to discuss this in the other thread but from a political standpoint, I am fearful that tonight's shootings of police will help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Just as in 1968, there may be a surge for law and order which helps the Republican candidate. 

Compared to Trump, she's the law and order candidate.

 

[badmojo1006]

I didn't want to discuss this in the other thread but from a political standpoint, I am fearful that tonight's shootings of police will help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Just as in 1968, there may be a surge for law and order which helps the Republican candidate. 

We are dealing with Trump...He will find some way to screw it up big time

 

[MaxThreshold]

Compared to Trump, she's the law and order candidate.

Yeah, pretty sure "law and order" and referencing Hillary in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Recent events should have no impact on hrc, other than she will continue on the same road.  The email stuff, it should be dead too.  Still can not vote for her.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Yeah that is explicitly a site owned and run by David Brock. One of many shadow sites pretending to be something when they're really just another media arm directly run by her.

I'm sorry, but you're complaining about sources????

 

[tommyGunZ]

I really kind of think that's why Bill went on the plane, to confirm that via personal assurance, or to say thank you for same. Which Lynch may not have given him personally but he probably couldn't help himself.

LOL

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm sorry, but you're complaining about sources????

You haven't been paying attention.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

LOL

No you're right it was about grandbabiezzzz.