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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

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jon_mx said:
No, they look at the number of statements which they judged to be untrue, which is different.  I am sure Trump probably lies often.  But that does not drive me to vote for a different liar.  
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Oh lord. Does it depend on what the definition of that "is" is, too?

Whatever floats your boat.  You guys go off on your anti-Hillary rants. I'll be over here with my pesky facts and numbers and analysis and stuff.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Oh lord. Does it depend on what the definition of that "is" is, too?

Whatever floats your boat.  You guys go off on your anti-Hillary rants. I'll be over here with my pesky facts and numbers and analysis and stuff.
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What?  I hate Hillary, and I've got facts and numbers and analysis and stuff.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Oh lord. Does it depend on what the definition of that "is" is, too?

Whatever floats your boat.  You guys go off on your anti-Hillary rants. I'll be over here with my pesky facts and numbers and analysis and stuff.
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You are interchanging liar with telling falsehoods and they are different.  Sorry, but words have meanings.   You are promoting a falsehood, but are not lying.  

Anyways, More than 2/3rds of Americans consider Hillary a liar, so it is far more widely accepted than just the anti-Hillary crowd.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
All politicians lie, in fact all people lie. But there's only two politicians/people left with any chance to win the 2016 election.  One clearly lies a lot more than the other and clearly feels no accountability to explain or apologize for the lies.  I consider a vote for the other to be a pretty clear vote against lying.
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Wait, you're voting Trump?

 
You might not like it but at least Trump tells what he perceives as the truth.  It may not be truthful to you but it may absolutely be the truth in his mind.

Hillary just lies and spins until she's left with nothing and then attacks your character.  We've had two decades of her nonsense.  Enough is enough.

If you think she lies less than Trump, you need to check yourself into Concussion Protocol (preferably with more rigorous testing than determining if you can still play in a NFL game).

 
jon_mx said:
You are interchanging liar with telling falsehoods and they are different.  Sorry, but words have meanings.   You are promoting a falsehood, but are not lying.  

Anyways, More than 2/3rds of Americans consider Hillary a liar, so it is far more widely accepted than just the anti-Hillary crowd.  
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My favorite part of this is that you're doing exactly what you claim to despise about the Clintons by squirming and playing lawyer in an effort to defend Trump. 

And of course there's the fact that Trump's "falsehoods," even if borne of ignorance, quickly become lies when people provide him with the relevant information and he refuses to correct himself. 

Anyway, have a good weekend, GB.  Thanks for the Friday afternoon laughs.

 
I think in terms of ethically and in truth telling this is how I break it down:

- Current Scandals - Hillary and Trump are close: she has a foundation, he has a foundation; school controversy, school controversy; Wall Street connections, Wall Street connections; sexism/sexism; criminal investigation vs fraud lawsuit; transcripts vs tax returns. Etc.

- Lying: I'm going to give quantity to Hillary, but magnitude to Trump (that is he tells huge whoppers about really important stuff). Now Hillary definitely does lie about "big" stuff - as I count the email controversy as a serious substantive matter as part of this, and she lied constantly and almost entirely about that (and still does) - however, with Trump there's Iran, terrorism, NATO, JFK's dad plotting to assassinate, antisemitic tweets, pseudonyms, fraudulent developments and his school... these are very big things. I will concede he might just be ignorant about half the stuff he lies about but then he makes it worse by doubling down even when there is sheer evidence he's lying.

- Ethics: And with Hillary I think the problem is she really is missing the gland that tells her when she is getting into bad, grey unethical territory. The private and public intermix freely. However I think that would be a huge problem for Trump too if he gets in, I don't think he will ever understand the firewall that must exist between what is his and what is the people's.

I think they both have huge problems in terms of getting the American people to trust them on matters great and small. That's really the problem.

 
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TheAristocrat said:
You might not like it but at least Trump tells what he perceives as the truth.  It may not be truthful to you but it may absolutely be the truth in his mind.
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"It's not a lie if you believe it."  -George Costanza.

Anyway, if he continues to "perceive something as the truth" even after the entire country knows it to be false and the media points that out to him over and over and over, he's even more dangerous than a liar.  He's a delusional madman.

Is that what you're arguing here?  That having a delusional madman as president is better than having someon who lies about sniper fire in Bosnia 12 years after the fact but owns up to it when they're called on it as president? Yeah, good luck with that argument.

 
If incidents like the attack in Nice help Trump (because he is perceived as "tough" on terrorism, then incidents such as this Turkey coup will help Hillary IMO, because she is likely to be much more knowledgeable about the circumstances and what our position should be. 

 
timschochet said:
If incidents like the attack in Nice help Trump (because he is perceived as "tough" on terrorism, then incidents such as this Turkey coup will help Hillary IMO, because she is likely to be much more knowledgeable about the circumstances and what our position should be. 
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Hillary is more knowledgeable on the terrorism aspect too, it's all a fear factor and instability - like in Turkey - causes more fear and concern, which helps Trump.

However in general I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's ridiculous that the national polls are as close as they are - and you should blame Hillary but you won't - but in the end every important factor favors Hillary.

 
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timschochet said:
Johnson may be on the rise now but he'll hit his peak way too early. Anyone expecting him to go the distance will be disappointed. 
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He'll probably lose, but not because he hit a peak to early. If his numbers go down, it will be because Trump and Hillary stop pissing people off. His only shot is they keep being who they both are. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
"It's not a lie if you believe it."  -George Costanza.

Anyway, if he continues to "perceive something as the truth" even after the entire country knows it to be false and the media points that out to him over and over and over, he's even more dangerous than a liar.  He's a delusional madman.

Is that what you're arguing here?  That having a delusional madman as president is better than having someon who lies about sniper fire in Bosnia 12 years after the fact but owns up to it when they're called on it as president? Yeah, good luck with that argument.
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"If you're committed enough, you can make any story work. I once told a woman I was Kevin Costner, and it worked because I believed it."

I'm not voting for either.  I couldn't possibly.  I have a hard time believing that people CAN actually choose between these two ridiculous candidates and then embarrass themselves defending them.  But, evidently, some of you jokers can.  Sure, you can lie to yourself to make it happen, just like Trump.  So way to be like Trump.

Hillary just flat out lies and lies and lies.  Believing anything that Hillary says is defiantly stupid.  She wants power and money.  That's it.  Everything else in her life is a lie to get more power and money.  Period.

 
TheAristocrat said:
You might not like it but at least Trump tells what he perceives as the truth.  It may not be truthful to you but it may absolutely be the truth in his mind.

Hillary just lies and spins until she's left with nothing and then attacks your character.  We've had two decades of her nonsense.  Enough is enough.

If you think she lies less than Trump, you need to check yourself into Concussion Protocol (preferably with more rigorous testing than determining if you can still play in a NFL game).
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Wow, Trump has completely conned you.  I mean, that's what he does.  That's what he's always done.  But you're buying it hook line and sinker.  

 
timschochet said:
If incidents like the attack in Nice help Trump (because he is perceived as "tough" on terrorism, then incidents such as this Turkey coup will help Hillary IMO, because she is likely to be much more knowledgeable about the circumstances and what our position should be. 
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Agreed - and I think both IFs are the case imo.

 
dparker713 said:
Wow, Trump has completely conned you.  I mean, that's what he does.  That's what he's always done.  But you're buying it hook line and sinker.  
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Is this really an HRC supporter talking about others being conned?  Your whole post is absolutely dripping with irony.

:potkettle:

 
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TobiasFunke said:
All politicians lie, in fact all people lie. But there's only two politicians/people left with any chance to win the 2016 election.  One clearly lies a lot more than the other and clearly feels no accountability to explain or apologize for the lies.  I consider a vote for the other to be a pretty clear vote against lying.
Click to expand...
Johnson is growing

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think in terms of ethically and in truth telling this is how I break it down:

- Current Scandals - Hillary and Trump are close: she has a foundation, he has a foundation; school controversy, school controversy; Wall Street connections, Wall Street connections; sexism/sexism; criminal investigation vs fraud lawsuit; transcripts vs tax returns. Etc.

- Lying: I'm going to give quantity to Hillary, but magnitude to Trump (that is he tells huge whoppers about really important stuff). Now Hillary definitely does lie about "big" stuff - as I count the email controversy as a serious substantive matter as part of this, and she lied constantly and almost entirely about that (and still does) - however, with Trump there's Iran, terrorism, NATO, JFK's dad plotting to assassinate, antisemitic tweets, pseudonyms, fraudulent developments and his school... these are very big things. I will concede he might just be ignorant about half the stuff he lies about but then he makes it worse by doubling down even when there is sheer evidence he's lying.

- Ethics: And with Hillary I think the problem is she really is missing the gland that tells her when she is getting into bad, grey unethical territory. The private and public intermix freely. However I think that would be a huge problem for Trump too if he gets in, I don't think he will ever understand the firewall that must exist between what is his and what is the people's.

I think they both have huge problems in terms of getting the American people to trust them on matters great and small. That's really the problem.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:  

 
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