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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (3 Viewers)

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Boston said:
Getting real tiresome dumping on people who have fought wars, worked hard and contributed a ton to their country...why is being able to live in your basement and tweet and get participation trophies or having been in the country for a short period of time make one better than someone who is old and white or any other color or ethnicity?  That is the message I get from your post...whether it is a dem or repub one group should not take precedent over another...that is divisive...
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So much wrong with your response I don't have the time to list it all- but let's start with the fact that you seem to regard blacks, Latinos, and Asians as having been in this country for only a short period of time, and further that you apparently believe that white conservatives are the only ones who have fought for this country (excluding Trump of course). 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Even if this Trump thing goes down in a semi-blaze of fire that could very easily lead to the GOP overcorrecting in the other direction which would be very appealing to people in the middle.

A fairly moderate Republican would do very well in the general.  The problem has always been getting a moderate Republican on the ticket.  The worse Trump does the more likely that conservatives will let that happen next time around.
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Trump is hardly a conservative. What I think we are seeing is a sea change in the Republican Party, and to a lesser extent with the Democrats. Trump and his supporters are generally a little left of center. Remember, Trump doesn't write the platform; the Party appoints a committee generally of establishment types and they write the platform. Trump isn't the platform, nor will he have any reason to adopt it as his own. In part, many of the other candidates did not show up because Trump is not an establishment Republican (and obviously, in part out of how contentious the race was.  Trump is a moderate to slightly left-leaning Republican.

Hillary is hardly a liberal. She is hawkish, but will say anything to get elected (i.e. I don't believe a lot of her anti-business bs when Bill and Soros are screwing with the economy for their own benefit. A lot is going on behind the scenes that the normal person doesn't even hear of (in both Parties). If anything, Hillary is more likely to get us into a boots-on-the-ground war than Trump is.

If Trump loses, the GOP will swing hard right again,m driven by Tea Party and Fundamentalist folks. If the Wicked Witch of Arkansas loses, the Dems will swing more toward a Sanders type platform. Neither will be a good President; the response when one or the other loses will determine the future (or lack thereof) of both Parties.

 
timschochet said:
So much wrong with your response I don't have the time to list it all- but let's start with the fact that you seem to regard blacks, Latinos, and Asians as having been in this country for only a short period of time, and further that you apparently believe that white conservatives are the only ones who have fought for this country (excluding Trump of course). 
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Both Parties pander to their bases. I think you forgot but I expect to hear at least one Mulsim speaker.

 
timschochet said:
And I love that he spoke Spanish. The convention next week is going to be filled with Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. And they're going to be young. This the new America, compared to what we saw last week, which was old and 99% white. 
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Yeah, speaking Spanish will go over real well with the white crowd who won't understand a word of it.

 
timschochet said:
And I love that he spoke Spanish. The convention next week is going to be filled with Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. And they're going to be young. This the new America, compared to what we saw last week, which was old and 99% white. 
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Why do you hate white people?

 
timschochet said:
So much wrong with your response I don't have the time to list it all- but let's start with the fact that you seem to regard blacks, Latinos, and Asians as having been in this country for only a short period of time, and further that you apparently believe that white conservatives are the only ones who have fought for this country (excluding Trump of course). 
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At what point did I say conservatives?  Please don't make things up to support your points...I don't like identity politics regardless of who it benefits...white, black or Latino...and I don't like saying old people who have done their part for their country are yesterday's news...until this country thinks more about "we" than "them" we are screwed...

 
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Shula-holic said:
All politics are demographically based these days.  As time goes on, the percentage of whites voting republican will increase.  The demographic shift already makes that a losing formula for the party.  At some point something will occur to cause another ethnic group to splinter from the dems would be my guess as some group decides that they are the low man on the totem pole on the left.  That's just an opinion though as to what might bring back equilibrium.  I don't see equilibrium coming from having races vote 60-40 each in one way or the other, it's more likely to come from it being 90/10 or 95/5 and having another group come to the right to create that equilibrium.  It's not pretty but it's what we have today.  
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I fully understand this (and agree)...and I hate it...not because it benefits one group or another but because it creates pandering...this goes for groups that support both the dems and the republicans...until we move away from identity politics (and we won't) politicians will use it to create an us against them atmosphere instead of we...you can see it already with the current vitriol in our political system (and outside of politics unfortunately)...from both sides of the aisle... 

 
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timschochet said:
So much wrong with your response I don't have the time to list it all- but let's start with the fact that you seem to regard blacks, Latinos, and Asians as having been in this country for only a short period of time, and further that you apparently believe that white conservatives are the only ones who have fought for this country (excluding Trump of course). 
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Love how you create a dispute out of nothing here. He just was speaking to one group of people, IMO it's just grievance politics for white people but instead you interpolated a statement that he never made.

 
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Boston said:
I fully understand this...and I hate it...not because it benefits one group or another but because it creates pandering...this goes for groups that support both the dems and the Republicans...until we move away from identity politics (and we won't) politicians will use it to create an us against them atmosphere instead of we...you can see it already with the current vitriol in our political system...from both sides of the aisle... 
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Yes, this election is less about different approaches to solving problems but which groups of people need more help.  I hate this too.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Love how you create a dispute out of nothing here. He just was speaking to one group of people, IMO it's just grievance politics for white people but instead you interpolated a statement that he never made.
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It's this negativity towards "old people" I currently see from some...if they don't share the values of 23 year old hipsters a few years out of college than they should just get out of the way because they have nothing to contribute...I find this attitude beyond arrogant... 

 
Boston said:
It's this negativity towards "old people" I currently see from some...if they don't share the values of 23 year old hipsters a few years out of college than they should just get out of the way because they have nothing to contribute...I find this attitude beyond arrogant... 
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I love old people. I am kind of old myself. My original post was not a put down of old people, it was just making the point that the GOP convention was nearly  ALL old people. The Democratic convention will be a mix of old and young, white, black, Asian, Latino- that's the America I know. 

 
Boston said:
It's this negativity towards "old people" I currently see from some...if they don't share the values of 23 year old hipsters a few years out of college than they should just get out of the way because they have nothing to contribute...I find this attitude beyond arrogant... 
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I had I agreed with Tim's comment because I think the RNC should try to appeal to more young people.  He did not say anything about kicking old fogeys to the curb.

 
Boston said:
It's this negativity towards "old people" I currently see from some...if they don't share the values of 23 year old hipsters a few years out of college than they should just get out of the way because they have nothing to contribute...I find this attitude beyond arrogant... 
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Unfortunately I think technology has had a multiplier effect in modern society. This is a bit of a riff from Jon Stewart IIRC but the country's marketing - including political marketing - has become increasingly driven by the young, and within the young especially those who are on and controlling media either on the receiving or broadcast end. The older folks have been increasingly marginalized, I think it's a good point.

 
Rohn Jambo said:
I had I agreed with Tim's comment because I think the RNC should try to appeal to more young people.  He did not say anything about kicking old fogeys to the curb.
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I don't disagree with this at all...it will be very tough because colleges are liberal bastions as is much of the education system...it is a huge mountain to climb and until there are legit leaders in the GOP that can get their message across correctly it will be a losing battle...

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Unfortunately I think technology has had a multiplier effect in modern society. This is a bit of a riff from Jon Stewart IIRC but the country's marketing - including political marketing - has become increasingly driven by the young, and within the young especially those who are on and controlling media either on the receiving or broadcast end. The older folks have been increasingly marginalized, I think it's a good point.
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Agreed...nice way to sum it up...

 
The ridiculous thing is that the Republican nominee has gone so far past Sanders on trade it's not even funny - Trump wants to tear up not just TPP but also NAFTA, and raise tariffs, and go after China's currency. We would be cruisin' for a bruisin' under Trump, but the thing is that Sanders actually understood what he was talking about, Trump is gibberish. He corrodes every serious issue he touches.

 
I hear Hillary attacking Trump but he did not create the problem with police brutality or cop killing.  What does she plan to do that 

Obama hasn't done already?

 
timschochet said:
I love old people. I am kind of old myself. My original post was not a put down of old people, it was just making the point that the GOP convention was nearly  ALL old people. The Democratic convention will be a mix of old and young, white, black, Asian, Latino- that's the America I know. 
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Maybe it's just that more old people can take time off from work.

 
Wow.  I've always liked Tim Kaine from what I knew about him as a mayor and governor and he seems to have been a solid senator, but his speech was very, very impressive.  All-around nice guy, anything but the boring dude the media portrayed pre-pick (media wrong - no surprise), and an excellent public speaker.  Great pick.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The ridiculous thing is that the Republican nominee has gone so far past Sanders on trade it's not even funny - Trump wants to tear up not just TPP but also NAFTA, and raise tariffs, and go after China's currency. We would be cruisin' for a bruisin' under Trump, but the thing is that Sanders actually understood what he was talking about, Trump is gibberish. He corrodes every serious issue he touches.
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Add in Trump wanting to throw NATO under the bus and it is crazy

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Unfortunately I think technology has had a multiplier effect in modern society. This is a bit of a riff from Jon Stewart IIRC but the country's marketing - including political marketing - has become increasingly driven by the young, and within the young especially those who are on and controlling media either on the receiving or broadcast end. The older folks have been increasingly marginalized, I think it's a good point.
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Commerical marketing targets the age groups who have money to spend, but you don't need to have money to vote.  The huge boatloads of cash spent on putting people in office does make me wonder who really benefits? 

 
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Gopher State said:
Add in Trump wanting to throw NATO under the bus and it is crazy
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I don't think it is crazy to take a fresh look at NATO's mission now that the USSR isn't nearly the threat it used to be. The new threat is terrorism in particular terrorism related to a particular religion in a particular part of the world. NATO needs to get on board with fighting that.

And while which religion is obvious not all people of that religion are part of the problem, and not all areas where that religion dominates are part of the problem either.

 
bueno said:
I don't think it is crazy to take a fresh look at NATO's mission now that the USSR isn't nearly the threat it used to be. The new threat is terrorism in particular terrorism related to a particular religion in a particular part of the world. NATO needs to get on board with fighting that.

And while which religion is obvious not all people of that religion are part of the problem, and not all areas where that religion dominates are part of the problem either.
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Yes, and The Golden Girls has been off the air for 25 years.  As the LBGTs know, put old people on hit shows if you want them to be hip and relevant again.

 
You know, the best way to refute Trump's NATO comments would be for Obama to announce a new NATO anti-terrorism policy to help all NATO members combat these frequent attacks.  Instead of telling us his idea is dumb, show us the value of NATO.  But I don't think that crosses his mind.  He just misses opportunities to lead quite often.

 
VandyMan said:
Wasn't Kaine involved in something sleezy or scandalous?  I've had a negative impression of him for as long as I can remember...just can't remember why anymore.
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I had former VA governor Kaine confused with current governor Terry McAuliffe.  Oops.  :bag:  

Kaine's speech was good.  They are overplaying him speaking Spanish, though.

 
Riversco said:
You know, the best way to refute Trump's NATO comments would be for Obama to announce a new NATO anti-terrorism policy to help all NATO members combat these frequent attacks.  Instead of telling us his idea is dumb, show us the value of NATO.  But I don't think that crosses his mind.  He just misses opportunities to lead quite often.
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It can't happen. The NATO countries that are part of the EU would have a difficult time with Trumps immigration policies. He would have to give up that issue first and he can't - too invested in it.

 
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