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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (14 Viewers)

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squistion said:
Considering your liberal/progressive point of view, we are shocked, shocked, to learn that!
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I'm more socially progressive than you might think and I'll also add that I'm a little surprised you're just now learning that Hillary is scum. 

 
lod001 said:
What argument? I'm just stating what the old bag will look like. She's the one convulsing on camera, tripping all over the place and showing signs of dementia already. She's the one with the obvious health problems.
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:shrug:

to some of these people she's jack material

 
Joy Reid cuts off pastor repeating lies about Hillary and birtherism.  :pickle:   Video at link:

Joy Reid Cuts Off Pastor: 'You're Not Going To Come On My Show And Make Things Up'

Joy Reid's deft handling of a lying, filibustering pastor this morning was a sight to behold. Everyone should take a lesson about how it's done.

During a segment this morning with Pastor Darrell Scott, things got ugly when Reid started to discuss Trump's birtherism. Scott cut in on her with the claim that the birtherism was the fruit of Hillary Clinton's primary campaign.

It's a bad idea to try and pull that with Joy Reid, who knows the history of these things better than anyone else.

"No, that's wrong," Reid corrected. "Even a pastor cannot just make things up on this show."

Scott huffed and puffed and tried to filibuster, but Reid just cut him off entirely by ending the segment and going to a commercial break.

As they cut away, she said, "No, sir, I respect you as a pastor. You're not going to come on my show and make things up."

And that, as they say, was that.

This is exactly how these liars have to be handled. Correct the lie, expose them as liars, and show them the door.

Well done, Joy!

 
lod001 said:
Blatant media bias: MSNBC's Joy Reid is a whore for Hillary.
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Wat? An MSNBC host has a liberal bias? Really? Get out of here - next thing you will be telling us is that Sean Hannity is in the tank for Trump.

 
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humpback said:
Seriously. It's why I can't stand "hold-your-nose" voters- you don't get to check a box saying "I'm not voting for this candidate, I'm voting against the other one". When Hillary destroys Trump, the Dems/DNC will obviously take that as vindication for not only their candidate but their tactics during this election, so why would they change anything in the future? If anything, they're going to double down since it worked so "well" this time around.

It really baffles me how so many people don't see this (Bernie supporters especially). I get it, Trump is Hitler, but he isn't going to sniff victory, and your vote isn't going to change the outcome of this election. IMO, if you actually want anything to change, you certainly don't want to see a blowout win for Hillary.
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I care about Trump being defeated - in a perfect world it would be by one vote to send a message to Democrats. However, it does worry me that we could have a disaster of an election like 2000 if too many people decide to vote 3rd party. 

 
cstu said:
humpback said:
Seriously. It's why I can't stand "hold-your-nose" voters- you don't get to check a box saying "I'm not voting for this candidate, I'm voting against the other one". When Hillary destroys Trump, the Dems/DNC will obviously take that as vindication for not only their candidate but their tactics during this election, so why would they change anything in the future? If anything, they're going to double down since it worked so "well" this time around.

It really baffles me how so many people don't see this (Bernie supporters especially). I get it, Trump is Hitler, but he isn't going to sniff victory, and your vote isn't going to change the outcome of this election. IMO, if you actually want anything to change, you certainly don't want to see a blowout win for Hillary.
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I care about Trump being defeated - in a perfect world it would be by one vote to send a message to Democrats. However, it does worry me that we could have a disaster of an election like 2000 if too many people decide to vote 3rd party. 
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There's two parts of every message...the sender and the receiver.  Doesn't matter that the sender is spot on if the receiver really isn't listening.  It's pretty clear the establishment isn't listening.  The only question is, does the Deomocratic side continue to not listen and end up like the GOP side at some point with a fractured group fighting with each other in a fantastic fashion that rivals the WWE?

At the moment I am 100% confident that the Democratic establishment doesn't think their #### stinks and the problem is with everyone else.

 
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cstu said:
I care about Trump being defeated - in a perfect world it would be by one vote to send a message to Democrats. However, it does worry me that we could have a disaster of an election like 2000 if too many people decide to vote 3rd party. 
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I don't see it that way. I see it as a disaster no matter which major party candidate wins. Itr is already a disaster, IMO.

 
If Trump is thoroughly crushed, then the ,message that people are sending by voting for him is lost. I'd rather see a narrow defeat and the two major Parties listening to the message people are sending. The Republicans didn't get it in the primaries; I don't really expect the Democrats to get it either.

 
bueno said:
If Trump is thoroughly crushed, then the ,message that people are sending by voting for him is lost
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Exactly why this is not the time nor the place to be voting for anyone but Hillary Clinton.   The pro Trump message is overdue to be lost forever if "we the people" are ever going to have a chance to reach the "more perfect nation" potential.   

 
bueno said:
If Trump is thoroughly crushed, then the ,message that people are sending by voting for him is lost. I'd rather see a narrow defeat and the two major Parties listening to the message people are sending. The Republicans didn't get it in the primaries; I don't really expect the Democrats to get it either.
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Exactly the point. That message needs to be on the outside, way on the outside, looking at a wall instead of in

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Exactly why this is not the time nor the place to be voting for anyone but Hillary Clinton.   The pro Trump message is overdue to be lost forever if "we the people" are ever going to have a chance to reach the "more perfect nation" potential.   
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There is never a time to vote for Hillary Clinton.  Ever.  She's no better than Trump.

 
cstu said:
I care about Trump being defeated - in a perfect world it would be by one vote to send a message to Democrats. However, it does worry me that we could have a disaster of an election like 2000 if too many people decide to vote 3rd party. 
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Maybe the Democrats should have thought about that before they nominated Clinton.

 
Think I have to agree with cstu and bueno here.  I don't get this notion that a "destroying" of Trump sends a message to anyone.  He's not part of either part of the establishment.  He's a hodgepodge (at best) of bungled political philosophies.  His primary attractiveness has been that he's not an insider.  At best, his defeat is representative of the establishment rejecting an outsider that didn't really have a shot in the first place.

As a matter of world affairs, there's two sides to the message.  Yes, a rejection of Trump is part of it.  The other part is an acceptance of Hillary and politics as usual in the United States.  Given the world's view of us and our policies, "more of the same" isn't a positive look at all.

Now....feel free to throw all your "but TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!" cards out on the table :popcorn:  

 
squistion said:
Joy Reid cuts off pastor repeating lies about Hillary and birtherism.  :pickle:   Video at link:

Joy Reid Cuts Off Pastor: 'You're Not Going To Come On My Show And Make Things Up'

Joy Reid's deft handling of a lying, filibustering pastor this morning was a sight to behold. Everyone should take a lesson about how it's done.

During a segment this morning with Pastor Darrell Scott, things got ugly when Reid started to discuss Trump's birtherism. Scott cut in on her with the claim that the birtherism was the fruit of Hillary Clinton's primary campaign.

It's a bad idea to try and pull that with Joy Reid, who knows the history of these things better than anyone else.

"No, that's wrong," Reid corrected. "Even a pastor cannot just make things up on this show."

Scott huffed and puffed and tried to filibuster, but Reid just cut him off entirely by ending the segment and going to a commercial break.

As they cut away, she said, "No, sir, I respect you as a pastor. You're not going to come on my show and make things up."

And that, as they say, was that.

This is exactly how these liars have to be handled. Correct the lie, expose them as liars, and show them the door.

Well done, Joy!
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They can't "prove" Hillary directed it, but it was well organized campaign tied to her supporters and dovetailed with the campaign strategy document to paint Obama as not fundamentally "American."  Of course there have been so many things lately that she has denied and and have later been proven true, that, given the synergy, I would guess that the probability that she did direct it as pretty good.  Has she ever disavowed Phil Berg?

 
The Commish said:
As a matter of world affairs, there's two sides to the message.  Yes, a rejection of Trump is part of it.  The other part is an acceptance of Hillary and politics as usual in the United States.  Given the world's view of us and our policies, "more of the same" isn't a positive look at all.
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Electing Hillary in a landslide is a rejection of "more of the same" anti compromise, "politiphobic" politics that we have so long toyed with to the nation's detriment. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Huh? It's literally a return to the 90s.
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Jason Grumet, the president of the Bipartisan Policy Center and the author of City of Rivals, likes to point out that within three weeks of Bill Clinton’s impeachment by the House of Representatives, the president was signing new laws again. “While they were impeaching him they were negotiating, they were talking, they were having committee hearings,” Grumet said in a recent speech. “And so we have to ask ourselves, what is it that not long ago allowed our government to metabolize the aggression that is inherent in any pluralistic society and still get things done?”

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Exactly why this is not the time nor the place to be voting for anyone but Hillary Clinton.   The pro Trump message is overdue to be lost forever if "we the people" are ever going to have a chance to reach the "more perfect nation" potential.   
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I disagree. The message is about loss of jobs to overseas workers, or to illegal immigrants. The Trump supporters are doing what we all do: vote with our paychecks or lack thereof. It is a bunch of people sick and tired of spending too much money on the wrong things, from NATO or the UN to failed policies here at home. It is people sick of Obamacare and socialist policies. It is a bunch of people sick of politics as usual and want to see something done. Face it, the only reason Trump has any popularity is because he is an outsider to what is being viewed as a failed system. They could have chosen a better candidate, but guess what? There wasn't a better candidate in the primaries that was voicing their concerns.

They are becoming louder - and if you suppress that voice, not only are you every bit the oppressor, but they might become more violent. You want a more perfect union? Then listen to the grievances of all the people. Stop listening to them at the peril of all of us.

So I hope it is a close election so that the voice of the people in question is heard. Some of my other hopes in regard to political party evolution may not happen, but evolution is a slow process.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Jason Grumet, the president of the Bipartisan Policy Center and the author of City of Rivals, likes to point out that within three weeks of Bill Clinton’s impeachment by the House of Representatives, the president was signing new laws again. “While they were impeaching him they were negotiating, they were talking, they were having committee hearings,” Grumet said in a recent speech. “And so we have to ask ourselves, what is it that not long ago allowed our government to metabolize the aggression that is inherent in any pluralistic society and still get things done?”
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I made that point in the Trump thread a couple weeks ago, I agree. But people can be both dysfunctional and functional. And in the end what Bill Clinton and the GOP did - anticrime, welfare, Wall Street deregulation, balanced budgets, trade - was that all good? It seems like reversing much of that was an impetus for electing Obama in 08 and then the Sanders & Trump (in best light) movements 2015-16. This seems more like the Clintons taking the Dem Party back to me, and if they have willing partners in the GOP and Yellow Dems in doing that I totally believe it, however we could very well have extreme dysfunction at the same time. Sometimes they remind me of Trump in the way they feed off controversy and discord. We all know that when the principle is that one spouse can operate for profit in the same realm of public affairs where another is governing trouble ensues. They seem to love the discord now so it seems inevitable they will invite it again. Reminds of a 5 year old who has been admonished to not take cookies and yet feels compelled to put their hand in the cookie jar but never be seen to actually take a cookie, just so they can say 'I didn't do anything wrong, look how unfairly I'm treated.'

 
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Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The Commish said:
As a matter of world affairs, there's two sides to the message.  Yes, a rejection of Trump is part of it.  The other part is an acceptance of Hillary and politics as usual in the United States.  Given the world's view of us and our policies, "more of the same" isn't a positive look at all.
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Electing Hillary in a landslide is a rejection of "more of the same" anti compromise, "politiphobic" politics that we have so long toyed with to the nation's detriment. 
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Policies <> Politics

So, I agree that electing Hillary is a rejection of being "politiphobic".  Electing her is a direct embrace of politics in this country, which is what I said.  I just happen to be more interested in the actual policies they produce rather than the politics they deploy.

 
The Commish said:
Policies <> Politics

So, I agree that electing Hillary is a rejection of being "politiphobic".  Electing her is a direct embrace of politics in this country, which is what I said.  I just happen to be more interested in the actual policies they produce rather than the politics they deploy.
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The policy achievements of Hillary Clinton will be vastly superior to the setbacks imposed by Trump or even the fantasies of electing Johnson or Stein or Sanders.   So even more reason to vote for Hillary and to those riding her coattails.    Sure she is compromised.  Sure she will embrace some middle and even middle right nonsense.  She will play hardball politics.  But if policy, and actually achieving success in getting them in place is what matters then there is no choice but Hillary.

But, electing Hillary is a rejection of the no compromise, burn it all down politics of 2016.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The policy achievements of Hillary Clinton will be vastly superior to the setbacks imposed by Trump or even the fantasies of electing Johnson or Stein or Sanders.   So even more reason to vote for Hillary and to those riding her coattails.    Sure she is compromised.  Sure she will embrace some middle and even middle right nonsense.  She will play hardball politics.  But if policy, and actually achieving success in getting them in place is what matters then there is no choice but Hillary.

But, electing Hillary is a rejection of the no compromise, burn it all down politics of 2016.
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sorry...."she's not trump and won't be as bad" is really not a legit reason (IMO) to vote for Hillary :shrug:

My argument, that you seemed to take issue with, was that the policies would be "same old same old" in the world's view.  Considering our perceived standing with the rest of the world, that's not a good thing.  In this country that's clearly not a good thing.  The only way to make it even remotely palatable is in comparison of Trump, but in the end, the reality is we're left with another #### sandwich and it doesn't matter how much Trump loses by, that reality is still going to be true.

If Trump and Hillary as candidates don't tell us that there is something severely wrong with the policies of this country and this electorate's view of our politicians, nothing will.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The policy achievements of Hillary Clinton will be vastly superior to the setbacks imposed by Trump or even the fantasies of electing Johnson or Stein or Sanders.   So even more reason to vote for Hillary and to those riding her coattails.    Sure she is compromised.  Sure she will embrace some middle and even middle right nonsense.  She will play hardball politics.  But if policy, and actually achieving success in getting them in place is what matters then there is no choice but Hillary.

But, electing Hillary is a rejection of the no compromise, burn it all down politics of 2016.
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That's crazy talk.  If Johnson were somehow elected president (not going to happen, but you brought it up), he would end the war on drugs once and for all.  There is nothing in Hillary's incrementalist agenda that even comes close to that kind of policy shift. 

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The policy achievements of Hillary Clinton will be vastly superior to the setbacks imposed by Trump or even the fantasies of electing Johnson or Stein or Sanders.   So even more reason to vote for Hillary and to those riding her coattails.    Sure she is compromised.  Sure she will embrace some middle and even middle right nonsense.  She will play hardball politics.  But if policy, and actually achieving success in getting them in place is what matters then there is no choice but Hillary.

But, electing Hillary is a rejection of the no compromise, burn it all down politics of 2016.
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Well if/when she is elected we will have chosen to not burn it all down. However the triangulation politics of the Clintons will make the extremists on the left/right crazier than ever. I'm afraid the problem will linger and grow worse until we have real reform. 

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The policy achievements of Hillary Clinton will be vastly superior to the setbacks imposed by Trump or even the fantasies of electing Johnson or Stein or Sanders.   So even more reason to vote for Hillary and to those riding her coattails.    Sure she is compromised.  Sure she will embrace some middle and even middle right nonsense.  She will play hardball politics.  But if policy, and actually achieving success in getting them in place is what matters then there is no choice but Hillary.

But, electing Hillary is a rejection of the no compromise, burn it all down politics of 2016.
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Because she's been so successful in the past? :lmao:

Everything she touches fails miserably, so this view of yours is nothing but unicorns and fairy dust as all history and evidence points to the exact opposite of that.

 
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The Commish said:
I don't get this notion that a "destroying" of Trump sends a message to anyone.
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Sending a message is just talk. Destroying Trump, if it's done correctly, will do a lot more than that.

Destroying Trump correctly means voting out all the down-ticket Republicans who refuse to repudiate Trump (and especially those who endorse him). That would have a huge effect, short-term and long-term, on the political landscape in this country -- and the effect would be beneficial, IMO.

 
MaxThreshold said:
Because she's been so successful in the past? :lmao:

Everything she touches fails miserably, so this view of your is nothing but unicorns and fairy dust as all history and evidence points to the exact opposite of that.
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What we typically see with Hillary is disorganization and misunderstanding. Probably her greatest achievement was the TPP and lo & behold when it arrived apparently people on the left & right were pretty surprised by what's in it. 

Truth is the hallmark of her tenure were those trade deals - Panama, Colombia, Vietnam, TPP - but that has been distinctly muted during her campaign. 

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
If Johnson were somehow elected president (not going to happen, but you brought it up), he would end the war on drugs once and for all.  There is nothing in Hillary's incrementalist agenda that even comes close to that kind of policy shift. 
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I agree with this. With the shift of power to the executive branch over the last few decades, there is quite a lot a President can do even without the aid of Congress. Ending the War on Drugs, at least as a practical matter, would seem to be feasible by an executive policy prioritizing enforcement of everything else ahead of federally prosecuting non-violent drug offenses.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
I agree with this. With the shift of power to the executive branch over the last few decades, there is quite a lot a President can do even without the aid of Congress. Ending the War on Drugs, at least as a practical matter, would seem to be feasible by an executive policy prioritizing enforcement of everything else ahead of federally prosecuting non-violent drug offenses.
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Insert the Mark Twain quote here.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Sending a message is just talk. Destroying Trump, if it's done correctly, will do a lot more than that.

Destroying Trump correctly means voting out all the down-ticket Republicans who refuse to repudiate Trump (and especially those who endorse him). That would have a huge effect, short-term and long-term, on the political landscape in this country -- and the effect would be beneficial, IMO.
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Don't disagree with this at all....the talk that got me engaged was focused on Trump and Trump alone.  What you speak of is a much larger message.  Under the initial terms of Trump and Trump alone I see it no more of a message than "Same old same old" vs "People pissed off at politicians in America" from every day people on the world stage.  With Hillary the world is basically left with "Murica's gonna Murica"

 
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The Commish said:
Don't disagree with this at all....the talk that got me engaged was focused on Trump and Trump alone.  What you speak of is a much larger message.  Under the initial terms of Trump and Trump alone I see it no more of a message than "Same old same old" vs "People pissed off at politicians in America" from every day people on the world stage.  With Hillary the world is basically left with "Murica's gonna Murica"
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Still see Murcia when I read Murica. Mercia, you know, that Saxon Kingdom on Vikings run by a crazy woman?

There are some other similarities too - like needing illegal aliens to help her retake her throne.....

 
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  Posts from the last 9 hours seemed to have disappeared. System glitch, I guess. Anyway, bumped for any news and or discussion.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Sending a message is just talk. Destroying Trump, if it's done correctly, will do a lot more than that.

Destroying Trump correctly means voting out all the down-ticket Republicans who refuse to repudiate Trump (and especially those who endorse him). That would have a huge effect, short-term and long-term, on the political landscape in this country -- and the effect would be beneficial, IMO.
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"Destroying Trump" (whatever that means) will not convince rural voters to vote for a democrat party that wants more gun regulation, government health care, unisex bathrooms, gay marriage, and abortion.  So the short term prospects of winning down-ticket are zero.  And the long term prospects for the democrats aren't any good either because by the time the older voters who oppose gay marriage and sexual equality die off, they just get replaced (and then some) by younger 3rd generation latinos that are turning into republicans.

 
In 2008, McCain got 31% of the Latino vote. In 2012, Romney got 27% of the Latino vote. In 2016, it appears that Trump will get around 20% of the Latino vote (or maybe 19% or 14% or 12%).

The rate at which Latinos are turning into Republicans is stunning.

 
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