Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

[renesauz]

She and her team specifically avoided going to an ER to avoid the media so they could continue to hide her condition. 

Think about that for a minute. 

Really consider what that means. 

She risked her own health to keep material information away from the American people. Information people need to know to make a fair decision. 

She'd rather lie & die than let people know the truth about her. 

Her first instinct is to lie to the people. 

If it hadn't been caught on video, the conspiracy to hide the truth would still be ongoing. This was her campaigns plan. 

Note they didn't say 'we didn't go to the ER because we knew it was only exhaustion'. They didn't go in order to maintain the secret. Full stop. 

She'd rather risk her own health, even if it meant that it could lead to Trump becoming president if something was really wrong with her, than let people know the truth about her. 

She puts her own ego ahead of truth. 

I can't think of a more crystallized distillation of her character than that simple fact. Really and truly. 

That fact, more than anything, disqualifies her from high office. That she'd risk her own health and safety to continue to lie to us is terrible. It is not something that our president should ever do. It is a violation of the trust we put in a leader. 

Concealing an illness is one thing. But avoiding treatment to keep up the facade during what could be a real  medical emergency is inexcusable. 

If the truth was told about the diagnosis...this is comlete BS. An ER would NOT necessarily have been needed....as I explained previously

 

[Hang 10]

I'm an ICU nurse...I've seen more than a few seizures. People having seizures generally don't just lose their balance, they don't move their legs forward (regardless of the ability to hold any weight on her legs). When someone has a seizure, they (usually) drop like a stone and are (always) completely unaware of all surroundings.

THAT WAS NOT A SEIZURE

It looked much like most people look when their blood pressure drops dangerously low, which is a common result of dehydration/heat exhaustion.

Look..there's smoke here, and I'm not going to deny it. Clinton has been far less than forthcoming about her health in general, and she's had several episodes that we know of where she has become light-headed and fell. She could simply be a sickly type that's prone to low BP when she gets sick (I've seen more than a few of these), or there could be a more serious, undisclosed, issue. The first really isn't that big a deal, even if seeing it is scary. The second obviously would depend on what it is.

What I AM sure of is that what we see on that brief video is absolutely consistant with someone pushing themselves far too hard while battling a pneumonia, suffering heat exhaustion and a subsequent drop in blood pressure. IE: The story they tell actually DOES make sense. Whatever it really was....it wasn't a seizure.

Further, most voting for Hillary wouldn't really care if she became so ill she had to resign...we're OK with the alternatives to succeed her, in many cases preferring those alternatives...but nothing about her health would ever make us change to voting Trump. IE: Even if it's an issue, it's still a non-issue.

Did you watch the same video as the rest of us? She was being held up and she wasn't moving her legs forward, she was basically being tossed into the van by her handlers. But yeah, based on her always being so truthful in the past we should just buy whatever excrement her campaign is selling us. Oh it was heat exhaustion and pneumonia? GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME! Thanks for your insight though, nurse Ratchet. 

 

[renesauz]

Thanks for this.

I'd like to hear your opinion on their decision to take a 68 year old woman battling pneumonia, suffering heat exhaustion and a subsequent drop in blood pressure, who they just loaded into the van with her feet dragging on the sidewalk behind her, to her daughter's apartment. Because while I agree that their story makes sense up to that point, their decision of where to take her is the part that makes no sense to me. 

It would if there were a doctor and nurse monitoring the entire time, and if they'd already recently run labs including blood cultures, and so were reasonably certain that she needed little more than IV fluids and rest. The first treatment for low blood pressure is fluids, which could easily be done anywhere. If the patient quickly responds, no other immediate treatment is needed. If that were the case, the patient may or may even be admitted into the hospital for observation (likely admitted overnight at least)...but that same level of observation could easily be done by someone qualified OUTSIDE the hospital.

If it really were exhaustion, there's no reason for a rich woman with a private doctor at her side to be admitted.

 

[Sammy3469]

If the truth was told about the diagnosis...this is comlete BS. An ER would NOT necessarily have been needed....as I explained previously

It almost like everyone in this thread has never overheated while exercising.  

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heat-exhaustion/basics/symptoms/con-20033366

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the truth was told about the diagnosis...this is comlete BS. An ER would NOT necessarily have been needed....as I explained previously

Let me ask this, since you're obviously informed from your profession - if anyone else (say especially someone 69 yo) became dehydrated like that wouldn't they need an IV most likely?

 

[HellToupee]

Donald Trump announces his candidacy by calling Mexican immigrants murderers and rapists. 

Some + illegal

 

[renesauz]

She didn't look aware of her surroundings, she was being propped up, she didn't move her legs forward. If it was nothing, why were they initially going to the ER?

You may be an ICU nurse, but your opinion is as biased as Dr Drew's here.

Whatever...she was wavering but definitely holding up some of her own weight...I've seen many people attempt to stand with a BP of 65 over 40...and they often look just like that...and have to be guided to a chair/bed/floor just like she did. THAT WAS  NOT A SEIZURE

 

[The General]

Let's revisit the Jump the Shark moment in this election:

- Democratic nominee is cleared by the FBI in a surprise press conference.

- GOP presumptive nominee accuses his rival's father of conspiring to kill a president.

- The First Lady nominee has full on nekkid and lesbo pics published in the NY Post.

- Democratic nominee faints after months of poopooed theories that she is somehow hiding something about being sick.

- The First Lady nominee is reported to have been an illegal alien model smugglee and call girl. Seems plausible but no one blinks an eye.

- GOP nominee body hugs the president of Russia and triples down on his fanboidom luv. Genuine conservative VP says yeah that's about right.

- GOP nominee walks out in convention to WWE smoke filled entrance.

When did this election jump the shark officially?

Trump talks about his little schlong during a debate.

Building a wall is the central most important part of his campaign's beginnings.

Dismisses POW Senator and one time presidential nominee of your part as a loser who got caught.

Attack parents of soldier because they disagree with you and comparing his loss and sacrifice  to theirs.

There's 30-40 more, these just came to mind. 

 

[renesauz]

First of all thanks for teh insight. - This is all I'm interested in, what is really going on.

Bill Clinton himself said yesterday (sure he corrected himself once he knew what he was saying...) that she has "frequently" had these episodes.

I don't think the explanation given is a small thing. Working hard with the biggest pressures imaginable weighing on you is the job description. What is stated as the 'benign' explanation is actually saying Hillary is literally not up to the job.

Meh...you could read it that way, and I would understand (but not agree with) that. But I sincerely believe that Donald Trump is far less qualified, regardless as to whether or not he's "up to the job"

So where does that leave us?

PS: I was never a big Hillary supporter. Bernie is the only politician who I've ever donated to

 

[timschochet]

Which is worse?

A. This thread in the last several pages (basically ever since Hillary fainted).

B. The Los Angeles Rams offense.

Choose carefully; this is very close.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Hillary's team not taking her to the hospital doesn't seem like a big deal to me but it certainly supports the idea that this has happened to her more than "I think really only twice that I can recall" and her staff was prepared for it.  

 

[Hang 10]

Which is worse?

A. This thread in the last several pages (basically ever since Hillary fainted).

B. The Los Angeles Rams offense.

Choose carefully; this is very close.

C. Hillary's health 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It almost like everyone in this thread has never overheated while exercising.  

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heat-exhaustion/basics/symptoms/con-20033366

I think reading what SF and Renesauz have been posting it sounds like together Hillary has a systemic weakness to viruses/bugs, combined with low blood pressure, leads to a susceptibility to dehydration and light headedness/fainting. I know this is play-Dr bs to some but it is a substantive issue now and since the campaign isn't telling us it's left up to voters to speculate.

And on that point people may btch about the conspiracy theories but that is what happens when information is not provided on what is really going on.

 

[renesauz]

Just read the last two pages of this thread and the Trump thread.  It appears we've reaching the point in this election cycle where everything has gone off the rails. A bunch of people speaking expertly about medical conditions with virtually none of the relevant facts or expertise in this thread, and figurative slapfights about literal slapfights in the other thread.

Gotta admit, I'm kind of amazed it took this long.  Just eight more weeks to endure.  Hopefully we don't end up with a white nationalist presidency at the end of it, but at this point I'm not sure that's much worse than this anyway.

Thank God for fall sports.

Sorry, but I can certainly speak with expertise about what someone with dangerous low BP looks like, and with expertise about how pneumonia can present. I made no diagnosis on Clinton, merely pointed out that claims of seizures didn't fit the video, but pneumonia/heat exhaustion very well could.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Meh...you could read it that way, and I would understand (but not agree with) that. But I sincerely believe that Donald Trump is far less qualified, regardless as to whether or not he's "up to the job"

So where does that leave us?

PS: I was never a big Hillary supporter. Bernie is the only politician who I've ever donated to

I totally agree on the Trump part. I just think the people have a right to fully know what is going on.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Sorry, but I can certainly speak with expertise about what someone with dangerous low BP looks like, and with expertise about how pneumonia can present. I made no diagnosis on Clinton, merely pointed out that claims of seizures didn't fit the video, but pneumonia/heat exhaustion very well could.

Wasn't targeting you or anyone else specifically, GB. I assume we probably have a poster or two with medical backgrounds in here too. That's why I went with "a bunch of people" instead of "everyone."

 

[The General]

Which is worse?

A. This thread in the last several pages (basically ever since Hillary fainted).

B. The Los Angeles Rams offense.

Choose carefully; this is very close.

Political threads are all complete #### shows from post one. No one is convincing anyone of anything. In fact people generally just get dug in worse becasue they become invested in "their guy". 

 

[Politician Spock]

It would if there were a doctor and nurse monitoring the entire time, and if they'd already recently run labs including blood cultures, and so were reasonably certain that she needed little more than IV fluids and rest. The first treatment for low blood pressure is fluids, which could easily be done anywhere. If the patient quickly responds, no other immediate treatment is needed. If that were the case, the patient may or may even be admitted into the hospital for observation (likely admitted overnight at least)...but that same level of observation could easily be done by someone qualified OUTSIDE the hospital.

If it really were exhaustion, there's no reason for a rich woman with a private doctor at her side to be admitted.

If it were just over heating/low blood pressure, I would agree with you. That's probably why they tried to run with that BS story to start with.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If it were just over heating/low blood pressure, I would agree with you. That's probably why they tried to run with that BS story to start with.

I would not underrate the Hillary campaign's proclivity to dissemble when it's totally unnecessary.

 

[Sammy3469]

I think reading what SF and Renesauz have been posting it sounds like together Hillary has a systemic weakness to viruses/bugs, combined with low blood pressure, leads to a susceptibility to dehydration and light headedness/fainting. I know this is play-Dr bs to some but it is a substantive issue now and since the campaign isn't telling us it's left up to voters to speculate.

And on that point people may btch about the conspiracy theories but that is what happens when information is not provided on what is really going on.

What aren't they telling you?  We know:

a) she has some pneumonia

b) was dehydrated

c) she was standing for an hour in dark dress in very humid air

All those factors lead to heat exhaustion of which fainting/dizziness is one of the potential symptons. 

 

[Murph]

What aren't they telling you?  We know:

a) she has some pneumonia

b) was dehydrated

c) she was standing for an hour in dark dress in very humid air

All those factors lead to heat exhaustion of which fainting/dizziness is one of the potential symptons. 

It's not the cough, it's the cover-up. I accept the explanation above. But the issue is that she was diagnosed on Friday then had a very public health scare on Sunday. The initial explanation of that health scare did not include pneumonia. That only came out later. For a candidate whose chief problem in the eyes of many has been her penchant for lies and excessive secrecy that's not a good look. She should have disclosed the pneumonia diagnosis immediately.

 

[shader]

Pretty good article 

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-s-health-scare-9-unanswered-questions-n646551

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What aren't they telling you?  We know:

a) she has some pneumonia

b) was dehydrated

c) she was standing for an hour in dark dress in very humid air

All those factors lead to heat exhaustion of which fainting/dizziness is one of the potential symptons. 

I think what they aren't telling isn't that bad - Hillary has a tendency for this. The record of faints and falls goes back to 2005. So it's not a one time thing. I think everyone should get past that and feel ok they're not falling into 'OMG she has a brain disease' territory.

 

[shader]

What aren't they telling you?  We know:

a) she has some pneumonia

b) was dehydrated

c) she was standing for an hour in dark dress in very humid air

All those factors lead to heat exhaustion of which fainting/dizziness is one of the potential symptons. 

What does a dark dress have to do with anything?  It was 8 in the morning.  Also, I've read reports that the temperature was around 80, humidity was under 50% and there was a breeze.   

 

[Sammy3469]

What does a dark dress have to do with anything?  It was 8 in the morning.  Also, I've read reports that the temperature was around 80, humidity was under 50% and there was a breeze.   

Humidity didn't break in the city until later in the morning, but I know facts and rational arguments don't matter since everything is a conspiracy with her.

 

[GROOT]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the black van she left in looks like a custom designed ambulance

 

[shader]

Humidity didn't break in the city until later in the morning, but I know facts and rational arguments don't matter since everything is a conspiracy with her.

I decided to check the weather history rather than rely on news reports which are all over the place.

It appears the weather was around 76-80 degrees with a 10 mph wind, but it was humid that morning, you are correct the humidity broke later in the day.

 

[Hang 10]

Humidity didn't break in the city until later in the morning, but I know facts and rational arguments don't matter since everything is a conspiracy with her.

C'mon, it was in the upper 70s and overcast. Sorry but you're not selling that as "too hot" even for an old bag like Hillary. 

 

[Redwes25]

With all the right-fueled conspiracy theories regarding her health, I'm not so sure that being up front about a bug would have been helpful at all. IN fact, I think in her shoes I would have tried to hide it until I got over it as well. This was a no-win situation for her.

In any case, it shouldn't mean much in the long run provided they're telling the truth about it now and she takes a couple weeks to actually rest and recuperate. It's unfortunate that the conspiracy theorists have been handed more ammo, but let's be honest...those theories and accusations weren't going away anyway.

The problem is that goes to people's biggest issue with her that she isn't trustworthy.  The right wing conspiracy folks are going to make up stuff no matter what but they aren't voting for her either.  The people she annoys with this are the people are on the fence who don't like either her or Trump and by hiding stuff she reinforces what those people don't like about her which she is not trustworthy.  She should start trying to be honest for once (but that appears beyond her ability and shows what she is truly like).

Of course at least she is sane.  

 

[BassNBrew]

Which is worse?

A. This thread in the last several pages (basically ever since Hillary fainted).

B. The Los Angeles Rams offense.

Choose carefully; this is very close.

Hillary's honesty.

 

[BassNBrew]

But she was wearing a BLACK dress!!!!!111!!!!111!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HellToupee]

Weather Underground Chelsea 28th St weather station hourly readings on September 11 this week. Readings every 5 minutes

 

[William Munny]

Some + illegal

They always seem to leave those out. 

 

[The Commish]

Her biggest flaw is working so hard. 

No...her biggest flaw is that she doesn't know how to be honest.

She knows how....she just chooses not to be for whatever reason.  Even over the stupid #### that no one cares all that much about.

 

[Murph]

Weather Underground Chelsea 28th St weather station hourly readings on September 11 this week.

If the Bill Ayers stuff couldn't sink Obama what makes you think Weather Underground is going to take down Hillary?

 

[Sammy3469]

C'mon, it was in the upper 70s and overcast. Sorry but you're not selling that as "too hot" even for an old bag like Hillary. 

A dew point of 69-70 is in fact "too hot" for most people:

More specifically it is a measure of atmospheric moisture. It is the temperature to which air must be cooled at constant pressure and water content to reach saturation.[1][2] A higher dew point indicates more moisture in the air; a dew point greater than 20 °C (68 °F) is considered uncomfortable and greater than 22 °C (72 °F) is considered to be extremely humid.[2] 

Again...facts and all that.  Yes it was only in the mid 70s temperature, but the dew point made it really uncomfortable in the city early Sunday morning if you were outside.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

Shout out to the dudes lecturing the guy who lives in New York (and it says so right under his name and avi) about what the weather was like in New York, just so that you can subsequently offer your expert medical opinions on what sort of heat/humidity is or is not sufficient to cause someone to become dehydrated.  Next level stuff, guys.

 

[Hang 10]

A dew point of 69-70 is in fact "too hot" for most people:

Again...facts and all that.  Yes it was only in the mid 70s temperature, but the dew point made it really uncomfortable in the city early Sunday morning if you were outside.  

I know what the dew point is...in fact we talk about it constantly in the running thread. Were the conditions uncomfortable? Sure, I could buy that. Hot enough to give someone heat exhaustion when they aren't moving? GTFO

 

[Hang 10]

Shout out to the dudes lecturing the guy who lives in New York (and it says so right under his name and avi) about what the weather was like in New York, just so that you can subsequently offer your expert medical opinions on what sort of heat/humidity is or is not sufficient to cause someone to become dehydrated.  Next level stuff, guys.

The weather data is readily available to all of us. Ain't the intraweb wonderful? 

 

[Sammy3469]

I know this doesn't matter to the conspiracy theorists here, but this is the readings from Ground Zero (I know shocking as well that different parts of the city have different weather conditions) which is 80 degrees and 71-2 degree dewpoint.

https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=KNYNEWYO433#history/s20160911/e20160911/mdaily

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Why does the NYC weather matter so much? I guarantee you it's gorgeous compared to here.

The president will be standing outside in Egypt, Louisiana, Kazakhstan heck maybe Paris in July.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Why does the NYC weather matter so much? I guarantee you it's gorgeous compared to here.

The president will be standing outside in Egypt, Louisiana, Kazakhstan heck maybe Paris in July.

Well, let's hope so. Decent chance that the president might also be telling those places to go #### themselves because they can't do anything for him personally.

 

[dutch]

Why does the NYC weather matter so much? I guarantee you it's gorgeous compared to here.

The president will be standing outside in Egypt, Louisiana, Kazakhstan heck maybe Paris in July.

All places Hillary has attended as SOS and as a cndidate.

 

[Hang 10]

Why does the NYC weather matter so much? I guarantee you it's gorgeous compared to here.

The president will be standing outside in Egypt, Louisiana, Kazakhstan heck maybe Paris in July.

Shark move would be to just send the body double in that situation IMO. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

So major health scare/loss of all bodily functions made deplorable baskets go away? That was way worse imo.

 

[timschochet]

I doubt very seriously that most of the people posting in this thread could handle even 25% of Hillary's schedule. Talk about stamina. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Obviously a normal, healthy person is not going to pass out when the temp is in the mid-70s with a 70 degree dew point.  As Hang 10 noted, that is not comfortable running weather, but it's not even remotely close to the kind of conditions that cause people to lose consciousness while they're just standing around.

On the other hand, it's very easy for me to imagine a person with advanced pneumonia passing out in those conditions while just standing around.  This doesn't require a conspiracy theory or anything.  Pneumonia is a very serious condition for somebody at her age, and I can see it knocking her on her ### (literally in this case).  Not sure why she felt the need to like about this initially, since the story they finally settled on is actually pretty reasonable.

 

[Rove!]

Hillary is actually attacking a cartoon frog named Pepe. What a racist!



I haven't had time to stay current with the FFA's response to her fainting/rag doll episode on 9/11 but I'm betting at least 3 posters have insinuated that the RUSSIANS poisoned her. 

 

[Rove!]

With all of these comedy hi jinks and clown car of a campaign, this one hasn't gotten the play it should

Hillary Clinton: “You’ve seen the reports. Russia’s hacked into a lot of things, China’s hacked into a lot of things. Russia even hacked into the Democratic National Committee. Maybe even some state election systems? So we gotta step up our game. Make sure we are well defended and make sure we are able to take the fight to those who go after us. As president I will make it clear that the United States will treat cyber attacks just like any other attack. We will be ready with serious political, economic and military responses.“

so, hacking the DNC is attack on the United States and military response is on the table?

if China hacks us, will we respond militarily?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Obviously a normal, healthy person is not going to pass out when the temp is in the mid-70s with a 70 degree dew point.  As Hang 10 noted, that is not comfortable running weather, but it's not even remotely close to the kind of conditions that cause people to lose consciousness while they're just standing around.

On the other hand, it's very easy for me to imagine a person with advanced pneumonia passing out in those conditions while just standing around.  This doesn't require a conspiracy theory or anything.  Pneumonia is a very serious condition for somebody at her age, and I can see it knocking her on her ### (literally in this case).  Not sure why she felt the need to like about this initially, since the story they finally settled on is actually pretty reasonable.

A fair criticism to be sure, and one that Dems have been leveling.

OTOH she's sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place on transparency. The public has made it fairly clear that they are willing to tolerate a lot more obfuscation from her rival than they are from her. 

Imagine what would happen, for example, if Clinton refused to release her tax info, and if her medical releases amounted to a single hilarious one page letter from this dude with no follow-up, and if she claimed to have given millions to charity but could produce no evidence of any giving in the last seven years and had in fact been spending other people's money on stuff like lawsuits targeting political opponents and six-foot paintings of herself, and if she'd funneled millions in campaign funds back to her family's business interests. If she did even half that stuff she'd be polling in the single digits.

So what is she to do?  She's stuck between doing what's best for the American people in terms of disclosure and doing what's best for the American people in terms of saving them from a white nationalist moron who doesn't know the difference between his ### and the South China Sea but who apparently is allowed to get away with pretty much anything.