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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (8 Viewers)

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Name


2014      Lobbying Spending      


Clinton Speaking Fee


Cisco Systems


                                     $3,450,000


          $325,000


California Medical Association               


$350,000


         $100,000


National Council for Behavioral Health     


$600,356


         $225,500


Biotechnology Industry Organization


      $10,186,000


      $335,500


Pharmaceutical Care Management Assn  


$4,284,916


      $225,500


Advanced Medical Technology Association


   $3,392,000


  $265,000


Novo Nordisk Pharmaceuticals


                  $3,008,000      


$125,000


Premier Health Alliance


                           $1,258,696


        $225,000


Council of Insurance Agents & Brokers    


$1,083,180


       $225,500
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http://time.com/3889577/hillary-clinton-paid-speeches-lobbyists-influence/

 
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The Commish said:
It's the best we can do sure....the problem is it still not very good.  I have no doubt that even if Trump is rejected at 50-40, the politicians in Washington will pin it all on Trump as if HE is the problem and the system that allowed him to rise is absolved.  To TF and others here pay closer attention to politics than the average voter, it will be a sign of repudiation.  That's how they've defined it and that's fine.  I think it'll be lost on most and chalked up to a "ha ha...remember that time Trump ran for President?"
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Sad, but likely true. 

Republicans apparently didn't learn a ### damn thing from the Palin fiasco. 

 
The Commish said:
It's the best we can do sure....the problem is it still not very good.  I have no doubt that even if Trump is rejected at 50-40, the politicians in Washington will pin it all on Trump as if HE is the problem and the system that allowed him to rise is absolved.  To TF and others here pay closer attention to politics than the average voter, it will be a sign of repudiation.  That's how they've defined it and that's fine.  I think it'll be lost on most and chalked up to a "ha ha...remember that time Trump ran for President?"
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Trump IS the problem. He and his supporters. Not the system. The system has sever us very well. 

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Eh, I kind of doubt this. Say what you will about Washington and the political establishment, but most of them aren't stupid by any stretch. They are smart enough to know that Trump is merely a symptom, and not the actual disease. No idea what they do moving forward, but both Trump and to a lesser extent Bernie have to have made the establishment types pretty uncomfortable this cycle. They'll respond, if for no other reason than to prevent this from happening again.
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Hope so...we'll see.

 
timschochet said:
Trump IS the problem. He and his supporters. Not the system. The system has sever us very well. 
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No. He's not. The system doesn't work, at all, for huge numbers of Americans. That probably isn't a group that is very well represented here in this bastion of white collar upper middle class white guys sloughing off during the work day, but it is true regardless. The working class, the working poor, and the outright poor have been taking a brutal beating here for decades.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'd say rejecting racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, repression of free speech, rejection of civil rights, and stunning ignorance from an aspiring war criminal who poses a unique threat to an otherwise great nation is far more important than reaching a deep understanding of systemic flaws in that great nation's political process.  So we're gonna have to agree to disagree there. 
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And I'd say that we have to figure out why our system tolerates this as an option in the first place.  That it's an option is a much greater problem IMO than Trump or Duke or whoever as the candidate.  It shouldn't even be an option.  I want to eradicate that and not be left with having to pop each pimple as it rears it's ugly head.

TobiasFunke said:
I'll leave you with this, though: Trump is historically unpopular with women and with pretty much every religious and ethnic minority imaginable.  Do you think maybe there's a reason why all of those groups seem to overwhelmingly agree with me and disagree with you when it comes to the relative importance of these two concerns? 
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What exactly are they disagreeing with me on here?  That he's all those things?  I don't disagree with that at all :oldunsure:  

 
timschochet said:
No I get what you're saying. I just strongly disagree. 

Also, in fairness to the other people you're referring to, I don't pretend to be representative. 
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Hey, I won't deny at all that it has been great, for me. Same deal for you, I'd guess. But you'd have to be pretty freaking blind to think that those on the lower rungs of the ladder have done as well post-Great Recession. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not as far along on the "system is broken" spectrum as is a guy like @The Commish . But there are huge problems, too, that we need to address.

 
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The Commish said:
And I'd say that we have to figure out why our system tolerates this as an option in the first place.  That it's an option is a much greater problem IMO than Trump or Duke or whoever as the candidate.  It shouldn't even be an option.  I want to eradicate that and not be left with having to pop each pimple as it rears it's ugly head.

What exactly are they disagreeing with me on here?  That he's all those things?  I don't disagree with that at all :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
Based on polling I think they probably disagree with this:

it's time to step back and wonder how the #### we got here in the first place, because understanding THAT is far more important than worrying about who's less crappy IMO
Click to expand...
Because they're the ones who stand to lose the most if we elect the person you casually dismiss (hopefully) as simply the "more crappy" candidate.  You have the luxury of taking what you consider a principled stand against whatever it is you think you're standing up against, because (as far as I know) you don't have to worry about stuff like this or this or this or this or this or this or this or this.

 
The Commish said:
No....I don't.  This "equally the same" shtick has gotten old.  I don't compare them to each other.  There's no point in doing that.  If neither is close to measuring up to the standard set on their own merits, why would I waste my time comparing them to see which is worse?  When you have to candidates of this "quality", maybe it's time to step back and wonder how the #### we got here in the first place, because understanding THAT is far more important than worrying about who's less crappy IMO.  That's where I'm at right now.
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Some people may be working backwards from the assumption that one or the other of these 2 individuals will be elected President Nov. 8th. Would you accept now that this is a binary outcome possibility in a finite-set world, as unfortunate as that may be, given the election is a month away? I'm first on board the system discussion, starting Wed. Nov 9th.

 
The Commish said:
I hear his exact words from others all too often....maybe I just hit a "special" patch of people in my area?
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Yeah, I don't know. What I do know is that the message sent by voters in the form of Trump is something that the Washington establishment will ignore at their very real peril. As I said earlier, they aren't stupid, and they well know that they're dodging a gigantic wrecking ball this year.

 
Mr. Ham said:
This is where I am too.  #### I'm so depressed over this election.  As a country we're so lost. 
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Yes, our country is suffering, but I'm not depressed over it. I accepted about 5 years ago that the next 20 or so years of our country are going to be historically bad. I've made that known here and received a lot of negativity for it. So I'm beyond the depression stage, and am well into the "i told you so stage". And all the ####ers who gave me #### over it can now kiss my ### as they realize how bad it's going to be.

 
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timschochet said:
Trump IS the problem. He and his supporters. Not the system. The system has sever us very well. 
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The original framework has served us very well. The system however is being bought with money. Rebooting the system returns us back to the original framework. Eventually money will probably own it again, but that's not a reason to not fix it when it gets bought.

 
Politician Spock said:
Yes, our country is suffering, but I'm not depressed over it. I accepted about 5 years ago that the next 20 or so years of our country are going to be historically bad. I've made that known here and received a lot of negativity for it. So I'm beyond the depression stage, and am well into the "i told you so stage". And all the ####ers who gave me #### over it can now kiss my ### as they realize how bad it's going to be.
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There's still nothing to indicate this.

 
cstu said:
I don't see a problem with one of those choices.
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One of them is a woman.  A woman! 

Also, she used a private email server when she should have been using a government email account.  And some people got killed in an embassy attack while she was the Secretary of State.  Plus her family runs a big charity and sometimes rich and powerful people give them money.  So she's pretty much Hitler.

I'll let someone else explain what's wrong with the other choice, I don't know much about him.

 
Obama DOJ drops charges against alleged provider of Libyan weapons


Arms dealer had threatened to expose Hillary Clinton’s talks about arming anti-Qadhafi rebels.

The Obama administration is moving to dismiss charges against an arms dealer it had accused of selling weapons that were destined for Libyan rebels.

Lawyers for the Justice Department on Monday filed a motion in federal court in Phoenix to drop the case against the arms dealer, an American named Marc Turi, whose lawyers also signed the motion.

The deal averts a trial that threatened to cast additional scrutiny on Hillary Clinton’s private emails as Secretary of State, and to expose reported Central Intelligence Agency attempts to arm rebels fighting Libyan leader Moammar Qadhafi.

Government lawyers were facing a Wednesday deadline to produce documents to Turi’s legal team, and the trial was officially set to begin on Election Day, although it likely would have been delayed by protracted disputes about classified information in the case.

A Turi associate asserted that the government dropped the case because the proceedings could have embarrassed Clinton and President Barack Obama by calling attention to the reported role of their administration in supplying weapons that fell into the hands of Islamic extremist militants.

“They don’t want this stuff to come out because it will look really bad for Obama and Clinton just before the election,” said the associate.

...

Turi was indicted in 2014 on four felony counts: two of arms dealing in violation of the Arms Export Control Act and two of lying to the State Department in official applications. The charges accused Turi of claiming that the weapons involved were destined for Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, when the arms were actually intended to reach Libya.

Turi’s lawyers argued that the shipments were part of a U.S. government-authorized effort to arm Libyan rebels.

...

But questions about U.S. efforts to arm Libyan rebels have been mounting, since weapons have reportedly made their way from Libya to Syria, where a civil war is raging between the Syrian Government and ISIL-aligned fighters.

... Additionally, Turi’s case had delved into emails sent to and from the controversial private account that Clinton used as Secretary of State, which the defense planned to harness at any trial.

At a court hearing in 2015, Cabou said emails between Clinton and her top aides indicated that efforts to arm the rebels were — at a minimum — under discussion at the highest levels of the government.

“We're entitled to tell the jury, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the Secretary of State and her highest staff members were actively contemplating providing exactly the type of military assistance that Mr. Turi is here to answer for,” the defense attorney said, according to a transcript.

Turi’s defense was pressing for more documents about the alleged rebel-arming effort and for testimony from officials who worked on the issue the State Department and the CIA. The defense said it planned to argue that Turi believed he had official permission to work on arms transfers to Libya

...
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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/marc-turi-libyan-rebels-hillary-clinton-229115

 
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Wait, the weapons don't just stay exactly where the Feds had the expectation they'd be when they gifted them? They're more like second hand smoke, drifting over to other countries?

Shocking!

I really have to vote for this person to avoid Trumptastrophe? It's like our options are a) eating a gigantic helping of dog poop or b) eating a gigantic helping of dog poop and being kicked in the crotch every day for the next four to eight years. I guess I have to go with option a here.

 
Gr00vus said:
Wait, the weapons don't just stay exactly where the Feds had the expectation they'd be when they gifted them? They're more like second hand smoke, drifting over to other countries?

Shocking!

I really have to vote for this person to avoid Trumptastrophe? It's like our options are a) eating a gigantic helping of dog poop or b) eating a gigantic helping of dog poop and being kicked in the crotch every day for the next four to eight years. I guess I have to go with option a here.
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In this case Trump would be option A because the establishment would stop Trump from kicking us in the crotch while Clinton would be taking donations from the folks wanting to do the kicking.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Former President Bill Clinton steamrolled President Obama’s signature healthcare law at a rally, calling it “the craziest thing in the world.”

Speaking Monday in Flint, Mich., Clinton blasted the core principles of ObamaCare as unworkable as he pitched a new system that would allow people to buy into Medicare or Medicaid.

“You’ve got this crazy system where all the sudden 25 million more people have healthcare and then the people are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half,” Clinton said.

“It’s the craziest thing in the world,” he said.

...
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http://www.thehill.com/policy/healthcare/299130-bill-clinton-slams-obamacare
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On the pro-Hillary side, maybe Bill will tell Hillary to get into the kitchen and make him a sammich while he actually fixes some stuff.

 
So Tim, is Bill wrong?

other than the 25 million may be 13 million?

 
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TobiasFunke said:
The Commish said:
And I'd say that we have to figure out why our system tolerates this as an option in the first place.  That it's an option is a much greater problem IMO than Trump or Duke or whoever as the candidate.  It shouldn't even be an option.  I want to eradicate that and not be left with having to pop each pimple as it rears it's ugly head.

What exactly are they disagreeing with me on here?  That he's all those things?  I don't disagree with that at all :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
Based on polling I think they probably disagree with this:

it's time to step back and wonder how the #### we got here in the first place, because understanding THAT is far more important than worrying about who's less crappy IMO
Click to expand...
Because they're the ones who stand to lose the most if we elect the person you casually dismiss (hopefully) as simply the "more crappy" candidate.  You have the luxury of taking what you consider a principled stand against whatever it is you think you're standing up against, because (as far as I know) you don't have to worry about stuff like this or this or this or this or this or this or this or this.
Click to expand...
So you don't think they care about the parts of the broken system that allows people like Trump to be an option and that they're content with just popping each pimple as it presents itself?  Ok.  I suppose that's their choice.  At the risk of sounding racist, bigoted, sexist, and whatever other "ism" or "ist" they like to attach to me because I simply disagree, I'll say I disagree.  Work smarter, not harder for me...every day, any day.  But don't pretend to know (and I see your qualification there...it's appreciated) how racism affects me and the things I work for and do in my day to day life.  It is front and center every day and that reality has helped me form my view of politics and politicians in this country.  Those experiences are why I have the positions I do today.

 
Gr00vus said:
Wait, the weapons don't just stay exactly where the Feds had the expectation they'd be when they gifted them? They're more like second hand smoke, drifting over to other countries?

Shocking!

I really have to vote for this person to avoid Trumptastrophe? It's like our options are a) eating a gigantic helping of dog poop or b) eating a gigantic helping of dog poop and being kicked in the crotch every day for the next four to eight years. I guess I have to go with option a here.
Click to expand...


timschochet said:
One man's dog poop is another man's ribeye steak, cooked rare, on the bone. 
Click to expand...


This seems appropriate.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
The Commish said:
No....I don't.  This "equally the same" shtick has gotten old.  I don't compare them to each other.  There's no point in doing that.  If neither is close to measuring up to the standard set on their own merits, why would I waste my time comparing them to see which is worse?  When you have to candidates of this "quality", maybe it's time to step back and wonder how the #### we got here in the first place, because understanding THAT is far more important than worrying about who's less crappy IMO.  That's where I'm at right now.
Click to expand...
Some people may be working backwards from the assumption that one or the other of these 2 individuals will be elected President Nov. 8th. Would you accept now that this is a binary outcome possibility in a finite-set world, as unfortunate as that may be, given the election is a month away? I'm first on board the system discussion, starting Wed. Nov 9th.
Click to expand...
I've never questioned that this is how it works.  What I challenge is the notion that "the way it works" can't be changed and/or the notion that if we don't change our behavior as voters that it will somehow just fix itself.  We can either choose to accept "this is how it works" and play the game OR we can reject it and do everything in our power to affect change.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
timschochet said:
No I get what you're saying. I just strongly disagree. 

Also, in fairness to the other people you're referring to, I don't pretend to be representative. 
Click to expand...
Hey, I won't deny at all that it has been great, for me. Same deal for you, I'd guess. But you'd have to be pretty freaking blind to think that those on the lower rungs of the ladder have done as well post-Great Recession. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not as far along on the "system is broken" spectrum as is a guy like @The Commish . But there are huge problems, too, that we need to address.
Click to expand...
What's your distinction between "broken" and "huge problems"?  Perhaps my problem is that I don't look at it from my point of view.  I look at our system from the vantage point of those less fortunate than me.  I try my best every day to put myself in their shoes.  That's the only way, IMO, we can begin to understand how others genuinely see our country.  It's why I volunteer at the places I volunteer and why I open my home to those less fortunate as much as I can.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
One of them is a woman.  A woman! 

Also, she used a private email server when she should have been using a government email account.  And some people got killed in an embassy attack while she was the Secretary of State.  Plus her family runs a big charity and sometimes rich and powerful people give them money.  So she's pretty much Hitler.

I'll let someone else explain what's wrong with the other choice, I don't know much about him.
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I've seen his name and face on a lot of buildings and consumer products.  I think he's a really successful business mogul.  Don't know much about his politics. 

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
I've seen his name and face on a lot of buildings and consumer products.  I think he's a really successful business mogul.  Don't know much about his politics. 
Click to expand...
He's got excellent politics, tremendous. The best politics. Believe me, he has politics like you can't imagine.

 
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