What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (7 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bill Clinton threw Bernie Sanders under the bus



WASHINGTON — Bill Clinton threw Bernie Sanders under the bus in an impromptu response to a heckler at Ohio University on Tuesday as he defended his controversial 1994 crime bill.

Trying to woo young voters in a key swing state, Clinton was interrupted by a protester shouting he cannot vote for someone who sends thousands of people to prison.

“Hillary didn’t vote for the ’94 crime bill even though Sen. Sanders did,” the former president shot back, as a heckler was removed from the rally.

Bubba’s remark to highlight divisions between his wife and Sanders won’t do much to build their alliance — especially as Sanders has been diligently campaigning for Hillary Clinton and trying to convince his young supporters to back Clinton and move past their feelings of being shunned by the DNC and the Clinton campaign during the primary.

The former president said neither his wife or Sanders “were trying to send millions of your people to prison because there were fewer than 10 percent of our entire prison population are in the federal prison system.” 

But Clinton said it was his Hillary who was the first candidate to speak out about changing incarceration polices. 

“No one else has done that,” Clinton said in his rebuttal. “The facts are difficult there. You ought to think about it, if you’re really upset, that means you’re also upset that we had a 25-year low in the crime rate, a 33-year low in the murder rate, and listen to this, a 67-year low in the rate of people being killed by illegal gun violence. I’m pretty proud of that, and I think that was worth fighting for.”

It’s the second day in a row that Clinton sparked divisions with Democratic allies. On Monday in Michigan, Bill knocked President Obama’s health care plan as the “craziest thing in the world.”

Clinton toned down his health care rhetoric Tuesday and kept more in line with his wife’s policy that ObamaCare is a positive first step but needs improving.

“The affordable health care act did a world of good and the 50-something efforts to repeal it that the Republicans have staged were a terrible mistake,” Clinton said.

“… But there’s a group of people — mostly small-business owners, and employees who make just a little too much money to qualify for Medicaid expansion or for the tax incentives — who can’t get affordable health insurance premiums in a lot of places … She has proposed to take the next step in this and do what the president tried to do the first time and she supported, which is to allow people 55 and over to buy into Medicare and allow others to have a public option that looks like expansion of Medicaid they can afford. It’s the right thing to do.”

Sanders campaigns for Hillary Clinton in Minnesota later Tuesday.

 
BassNBrew said:
So Tim, is Bill wrong?

other than the 25 million may be 13 million?
Click to expand...
I've always thought he's right. My opinion on Obamacare has been largely unchanged since it first passed: I wrote then, and believe now, that the minute you made different prices for pre-existing conditions illegal, you were making single payer inevitable, and any interim idea (such as the current ACA) was unworkable in the long term. 

That being said, long term is a long time. So far ACA seems to have largely worked in keeping health costs down, and it certainly hasn't been the catastrophe that many predicted. It may be a decade or more before we reach the point when single payer becomes the only viable way to continue. But I'm convince that WILL happen. We can never go back. 

 
The Commish said:
I've never questioned that this is how it works.  What I challenge is the notion that "the way it works" can't be changed and/or the notion that if we don't change our behavior as voters that it will somehow just fix itself.  We can either choose to accept "this is how it works" and play the game OR we can reject it and do everything in our power to affect change.
Click to expand...
I agree, and specifically think it should be the top priority starting November 9. See, you ignored the key point. The point wasn't at all "this is how it works", despite your attempt to steer it there. The point is, how do you not see there is an inevitable binary decision looming in 35 days? 

 
Coeur de Lion said:
The Commish said:
I hear his exact words from others all too often....maybe I just hit a "special" patch of people in my area?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't know. What I do know is that the message sent by voters in the form of Trump is something that the Washington establishment will ignore at their very real peril. As I said earlier, they aren't stupid, and they well know that they're dodging a gigantic wrecking ball this year.
Click to expand...
See....I said this when Palin got put on the ticket with McCain.  I really hope you're right.

 
timschochet said:
I've always thought he's right. My opinion on Obamacare has been largely unchanged since it first passed: I wrote then, and believe now, that the minute you made different prices for pre-existing conditions illegal, you were making single payer inevitable, and any interim idea (such as the current ACA) was unworkable in the long term. 

That being said, long term is a long time. So far ACA seems to have largely worked in keeping health costs down, and it certainly hasn't been the catastrophe that many predicted. It may be a decade or more before we reach the point when single payer becomes the only viable way to continue. But I'm convince that WILL happen. We can never go back. 
Click to expand...
Yeah we are in the BCS era of single pay health care. It's a ####ed up system but better than before and what is the best is inevitable just a matter of time.

 
timschochet said:
I've always thought he's right. My opinion on Obamacare has been largely unchanged since it first passed: I wrote then, and believe now, that the minute you made different prices for pre-existing conditions illegal, you were making single payer inevitable, and any interim idea (such as the current ACA) was unworkable in the long term. 

That being said, long term is a long time. So far ACA seems to have largely worked in keeping health costs down, and it certainly hasn't been the catastrophe that many predicted. It may be a decade or more before we reach the point when single payer becomes the only viable way to continue. But I'm convince that WILL happen. We can never go back. 
Click to expand...
Link please....but if you're going to intentionally give me group market premiums, don't bother.....saves me time trying to explain the difference for the 100th time.

 
The Commish said:
See....I said this when Palin got put on the ticket with McCain.  I really hope you're right.
Click to expand...
Not comparable. Palin was a total Hail Mary, and was chosen as a symbolic figurehead by the establishment. Trump is an entirely different animal, who won against the will of those same people -- and no matter what they've said in public, they know what he is and how dangerous he is to the country.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Grace Under Pressure said:
The Commish said:
I've never questioned that this is how it works.  What I challenge is the notion that "the way it works" can't be changed and/or the notion that if we don't change our behavior as voters that it will somehow just fix itself.  We can either choose to accept "this is how it works" and play the game OR we can reject it and do everything in our power to affect change.
Click to expand...
I agree, and specifically think it should be the top priority starting November 9. See, you ignored the key point. The point wasn't at all "this is how it works", despite your attempt to steer it there. The point is, how do you not see there is an inevitable binary decision looming in 35 days? 
Click to expand...
Because I don't buy the notion that I can only vote for one of two candidates.  Our laws say that's not true and I'm not sure why people try to frame the discussion that way other than an attempt to keep the status quo.  I can vote for any of the options on my ballot.  Unfortunately, I can not write in a vote in my state (the two big parties have seen to that rather nicely).  

 
timschochet said:
I've always thought he's right. My opinion on Obamacare has been largely unchanged since it first passed: I wrote then, and believe now, that the minute you made different prices for pre-existing conditions illegal, you were making single payer inevitable, and any interim idea (such as the current ACA) was unworkable in the long term. 

That being said, long term is a long time. So far ACA seems to have largely worked in keeping health costs down, and it certainly hasn't been the catastrophe that many predicted. It may be a decade or more before we reach the point when single payer becomes the only viable way to continue. But I'm convince that WILL happen. We can never go back. 
Click to expand...
So Hillary will be revising the ACA.

 
BeaverCleaver said:
Why....because according to you it is working? 
Click to expand...
Because I think that, politically, she wants to move on to other things. The public is exhausted with this particular fight. Just my opinion.

And because even if she wanted to, how to get enough votes to get change? The House is going to stay Republican.

 
timschochet said:
Because I think that, politically, she wants to move on to other things. The public is exhausted with this particular fight. Just my opinion.

And because even if she wanted to, how to get enough votes to get change? The House is going to stay Republican.
Click to expand...
She and the Republicans - and healthcare industry and their lobbyists - likely have a common agenda on ACA. The only people talking about revising the ACA are Hillary and the GOP.

 
timschochet said:
Because I think that, politically, she wants to move on to other things. The public is exhausted with this particular fight. Just my opinion.

And because even if she wanted to, how to get enough votes to get change? The House is going to stay Republican.
Click to expand...
Are you nuts? The public is fed up with the ACA and it is going to get worse.

 
timschochet said:
I don't think your perception of "the public" is the same as mine.
Click to expand...
You've said before that Hillary views Wall Street as a constituency.

Well Hillary has been paid just as much by the HC industry as by WS, so the pharmas and the device manufacturers and the big hospitals and insurers are all just as much a "constituency" to her as the "the public."

 
timschochet said:
I've always thought he's right. My opinion on Obamacare has been largely unchanged since it first passed: I wrote then, and believe now, that the minute you made different prices for pre-existing conditions illegal, you were making single payer inevitable, and any interim idea (such as the current ACA) was unworkable in the long term. 

That being said, long term is a long time. So far ACA seems to have largely worked in keeping health costs down, and it certainly hasn't been the catastrophe that many predicted. It may be a decade or more before we reach the point when single payer becomes the only viable way to continue. But I'm convince that WILL happen. We can never go back. 
Click to expand...
1. 29 million uninsured - Fail

2. About 25-35 million paying double what they used to for the pleasure of higher deductibles, fewer doctors and treatment option - Fail

3. Over two dozen failed co-ops with the seed money permanently gone - Fail

If it was someone in your family that couldn't get the treatment they needed or afford the premiums, you would be raising hell on these boards.  But since it's not, you say it's a success.

 
The Commish said:
Link please....but if you're going to intentionally give me group market premiums, don't bother.....saves me time trying to explain the difference for the 100th time.
Click to expand...
Did you know that 

Since the ACA, there has been no overall increase in cost sharing..
Click to expand...
At least on the macro level that matters when discussing overall healthcare cost and how component costs like premiums, federal spending , or, in this case cost sharing reflect those costs.  On the micro level the masses will likely disagree as deductibles have continued to get higher each year but that is now offset by the few that greatly benefit by the elimination of annual and lifetime limits.    

If you read the entire interview you'll see a question that is worded in a confusing manner as to whether  Trump/GOP plans are beneficial to me, or a threat.  But it is a rather informative interview which touches on many of the things that I used to post in the ACA thread.  

Oh, as for the individual market in a picture.  (From here.)

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The Commish said:
Link please....but if you're going to intentionally give me group market premiums, don't bother.....saves me time trying to explain the difference for the 100th time.
Click to expand...
Did you know that 

Since the ACA, there has been no overall increase in cost sharing..
Click to expand...
At least on the macro level that matters when discussing overall healthcare cost and how component costs like premiums, federal spending , or, in this case cost sharing reflect those costs.  On the micro level the masses will likely disagree as deductibles have continued to get higher each year but that is now offset by the few that greatly benefit by the elimination of annual and lifetime limits.    

If you read the entire interview you'll see a question that is worded in a confusing manner as to whether  Trump/GOP plans are beneficial to me, or a threat.  But it is a rather informative interview which touches on many of the things that I used to post in the ACA thread.  

Oh, as for the individual market in a picture.  (From here.)
Click to expand...
Thanks BFS...I just glanced at this (will have to read it in detail later) but it seems like the "They only rose $5 when they might have rose $10 the old way, so reduction!!!" argument Tim was using while using the group market.

 
BassNBrew said:
1. 29 million uninsured - Fail

2. About 25-35 million paying double what they used to for the pleasure of higher deductibles, fewer doctors and treatment option - Fail

3. Over two dozen failed co-ops with the seed money permanently gone - Fail

If it was someone in your family that couldn't get the treatment they needed or afford the premiums, you would be raising hell on these boards.  But since it's not, you say it's a success.
Click to expand...
Yep kind of like his Epipen price rant. 

 
The Commish said:
Thanks BFS...I just glanced at this (will have to read it in detail later) but it seems like the "They only rose $5 when they might have rose $10 the old way, so reduction!!!" argument Tim was using while using the group market.
Click to expand...
It's a bunch of crap.

From the article..."the ACA creates a price-competitive and transparent market structure, where consumers can compare similar health insurance products. ACA marketplace consumers, to date, appear to be very cost-conscious and drawn to lower-cost, narrower-network offerings. As a result, many health plans have been very aggressive in negotiating lower provider payment rates and utilizing narrow networks" 

Not from the article, but by BFS own admission, deductibles have been rising.  In the previous environment while your premium may have gone up, the terms of the policy (deductibles and out of pockets) stayed the same year to year.  Now he is right that we no longer have $1 million dollar a year and $2 million dollar lifetime caps but what is the average consumer more worried about?  Basically the entire article is comparing two things that aren't similar.

The whole premise of this article is along the lines of the price of the average new car would be $20000, but now that they force everyone to by a Nissan Versa it's only $15000.  And next year it looks like that Nissan Versa will cost the same as an average new car.

 
We are getting a preview of what life will be like under president Clinton as the democrats are trying to walk a political tightrope by divorcing themselves from Obamacare while at the same time blaming the GOP for Obamacare.  That's gonna be tough since the democrats passed it into law.  We'll see.  It needs massive reforms and that topic should be the bulk of Hillary's term.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The next 4 years will be paul ryan blaming the democrats and hillary for obamacare and hillary trying to destroy ryan by blaming him for obamacare. Ryan may win that battle but it will also polarize voters against ryan so he cant run for president

 
Riversco said:
The next 4 years will be paul ryan blaming the democrats and hillary for obamacare and hillary trying to destroy ryan by blaming him for obamacare. Ryan may win that battle but it will also polarize voters against ryan so he cant run for president
Click to expand...
Ryan is already damaged goods as far as the GOP is concerned...it would be like Jeb 2.0...

 
Riversco said:
We are getting a preview of what life will be like under president Clinton as the democrats are trying to walk a political tightrope by divorcing themselves from Obamacare while at the same time blaming the GOP for Obamacare.  That's gonna be tough since the democrats passed it into law.  We'll see.  It needs massive reforms and that topic should be the bulk of Hillary's term.
Click to expand...
GOP did nothing to help pass health care reform legislation.  Democrats had to deal with members of their own Party concerned about getting re-elected.

 
Both sides #### the bed equally, and spectacularly, on the ACA, and did so because they were more worried about the pharmaceutical and insurance lobbies than they were about the welfare of the American people. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BassNBrew said:
It's a bunch of crap.

From the article..."the ACA creates a price-competitive and transparent market structure, where consumers can compare similar health insurance products. ACA marketplace consumers, to date, appear to be very cost-conscious and drawn to lower-cost, narrower-network offerings. As a result, many health plans have been very aggressive in negotiating lower provider payment rates and utilizing narrow networks" 

Not from the article, but by BFS own admission, deductibles have been rising.  In the previous environment while your premium may have gone up, the terms of the policy (deductibles and out of pockets) stayed the same year to year.  Now he is right that we no longer have $1 million dollar a year and $2 million dollar lifetime caps but what is the average consumer more worried about?  Basically the entire article is comparing two things that aren't similar.

The whole premise of this article is along the lines of the price of the average new car would be $20000, but now that they force everyone to by a Nissan Versa it's only $15000.  And next year it looks like that Nissan Versa will cost the same as an average new car.
Click to expand...
I'm not getting sucked into this debate because to be honest I really don't have the energy to dig into the details enough but I will say that your statement above has not been true in my experience.   Seems like every year some payment went up or less was covered before and after the ACA.   

 
Paul Ryan is a total fraud.  Pretends to be serious about fiscal issues yet repeatedly releases plans that are funded by the magical trickle-down asterisk 

 
Good article on how this election is reshaping the electoral map: 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/clinton-and-trump-are-shuffling-the-electoral-map/502748/

The main point here, per the article, is that Trump vs Clinton is not creating new restructure; it's accelerating trends that were already in place: rust belt becoming more white and conservative (hence Trunp wins Ohio), sun belt becoming younger and more minority filled(hence Hillary wins Florida and North Carolina.) 

If Florida and North Carolina become regular blue states, it's hard to see how any Republican gets elected President in the foreseeable future. 

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

mr. furley
Long Island serial killer suspect in custody
Replies
34
Views
2K
Dezbelief
Dezbelief
krista4
In this thread I rank my favorite Beatles songs: 204-1.
138 139 140
Replies
7K
Views
261K
rockaction
rockaction
HellToupee
***Official*** Joe Biden 2016 Presidential Thread
Replies
35
Views
2K
That one guy
T

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 7 (members: 0, guests: 7)
Back
Top