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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (3 Viewers)

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Now rhat Hillary appears to be the overwhelming favorite to win, its easier and safer for those who are going to vote for Johnson, Stein, or simply abstain from voting at the top of the ticket to make their cases. They likely no longer have to deal with the catastrophe of a Trump victory. 

 
There was also a need for a revolution. A guy named Thomas Paine wrote a brilliant little book spelling it out. 

If there is an equally compelling reason for a revolution in 2016, I haven't seen it. Certainly you have failed to provide it. 
There is no need to revolt against government. There is however a need to revolt against the nomination process. It's obvious to everyone, even those willing to vote for the lesser of two evils every year. The fact that you can't see it does not surprise me at all. You've been blind on many issues. The NSA issue perhaps being the best example. 

 
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There is no need to revolt against government. There is however a need to revolt against the nomination process. It's obvious to everyone, even those willing to vote for the lesser of two evils every year. The fact that you can't see it does not surprise me at all. You've been blind on many issues. The NSA issue perhaps being the best example. 
I would like to see some significant changes to the nomination process. But I don't understand what you mean by "revolt" in this context. Please explain. 

 
You should be, seriously.  Life is much more pleasant when you're not tied to a party and don't compelled to carry water for somebody who you know in your heart is an #######.  The air you breathe is fresher, the color of the fall foliage are brighter, and your cereal tastes better in the morning.
No offense, but opting out so you can feel better about yourself isn't some sort of noble cause. You're abdicating responsibility and placing yourself in the catbird position of "I told you so" no matter what the realistic outcome is on November 9th. Hope that cereal tastes good while the rest of us take care of things for you, and then you can come on here and complain some more.
With friends who are willing to vote for Hillary or Trump, we don't need enemies.  You do what's best for you...you're not doing the rest of us any favors by settling.

 
And on the other side as far as checks and balances against long-time one party rule, it's someone like Kasich who is a moderate Republican, among other viable examples that were suppressed by Donald Trump in 2016. You don't have to agree with Kasich's views at all to realize that someone like him as the opposition is better for the country than freaking Trump. The GOP as we now know it is probably over after this election, Trump is an embodiment of how far off the rails things have gotten over there. Will be interesting to see if they decide an internal shake up in hopes of a future bounce back is worth the time and effort to take two steps backward to take 3 forward, or they will change nothing and shift further towards 3rd party general election status. Insanity is repeating something over and over and expecting differing outcomes.
The problem with this is that their base won't allow it, and anyone taking this path is at huge risk of getting primaried by a far right loon.

 
Trump's passionate and wrong on a majority of the issues just like Tim.
Trump is a proven fraud, an admitted sexual predator with a long history of both dangerous words and actions.  He is also purposely fueling very dangerous flames all for personal gain and notoriety to feed his narcissism. Whatever you may think of Tim, he is none of the above and making such hyperbolic statements only hurts one's ability to legitimately respond and even denounce Tim's comments.

 
I would like to see some significant changes to the nomination process. But I don't understand what you mean by "revolt" in this context. Please explain. 
Revolt: an attempt to put an end to the authority of a person or a body.

In this case the bodies are the republican and democratic parties. 

 
I would like to see some significant changes to the nomination process. But I don't understand what you mean by "revolt" in this context. Please explain. 
What changes specifically and why?  You're an establishment guy...mucking with the current process is the last thing a person in your position should want.

 
The problem with this is that their base won't allow it, and anyone taking this path is at huge risk of getting primaried by a far right loon.
I've tried imagining realistic ways the Republican Party can change right now and I just can't see it.  Their leadership is comfortable trying to maintain control of at least one house of Congress and winning gubernatorial races.

 
You've been blind on many issues. The NSA issue perhaps being the best example. 
Yes I disagree with you on the NSA. But that doesn't make me "blind". At worst, in your opinion, it should make me wrong. Using words like "blind" to describe those who don't agree with your position is quite Trumpian of you. 

 
Now rhat Hillary appears to be the overwhelming favorite to win, its easier and safer for those who are going to vote for Johnson, Stein, or simply abstain from voting at the top of the ticket to make their cases. They likely no longer have to deal with the catastrophe of a Trump victory. 
It's been like that for a month and it's been clear since May he didn't have a campaign or intend to build one but go on.

 
Yes I disagree with you on the NSA. But that doesn't make me "blind". At worst, in your opinion, it should make me wrong. Using words like "blind" to describe those who don't agree with your position is quite Trumpian of you. 
I use the word blind because you refused to see that they were doing what everyone in the thread was saying they were doing. It went on for 500 pages. You were both blind and wrong.  

 
I've tried imagining realistic ways the Republican Party can change right now and I just can't see it.  Their leadership is comfortable trying to maintain control of at least one house of Congress and winning gubernatorial races.
I'm sure that they aren't really "comfortable" with it -- there just isn't any real way out considering the extremist fools that they are beholden to if they want to hold onto their seats.

 
What changes specifically and why?  You're an establishment guy...mucking with the current process is the last thing a person in your position should want.
The most important change I'd like to see is that the order of primary states should be randomly selected every 4 years. One cycle it might be Hawaii first, then Texas. It shouldn't always be Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. That gives outweighed importance to those few states. 

Just because I don't want to see the entire system thrown out doesn't mean I'm not open to ideas to make it better. 

 
You've been blind on many issues. The NSA issue perhaps being the best example. 
Yes I disagree with you on the NSA. But that doesn't make me "blind". At worst, in your opinion, it should make me wrong. Using words like "blind" to describe those who don't agree with your position is quite Trumpian of you.
Is this going to be the new thing?  When one has mounds of evidence in front of them, contrary to their position, are told that X could/would happen AND it then happens while they continue to stay with their opinion, "blind" is a perfectly good adjective to describe them in this context.  I'd personally choose willfully ignorant but to each his own.  

 
What changes specifically and why?  You're an establishment guy...mucking with the current process is the last thing a person in your position should want.
The most important change I'd like to see is that the order of primary states should be randomly selected every 4 years. One cycle it might be Hawaii first, then Texas. It shouldn't always be Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. That gives outweighed importance to those few states. 

Just because I don't want to see the entire system thrown out doesn't mean I'm not open to ideas to make it better. 
And what significant impact do you see this having on the process?

ETA:  I'm not for throwing the whole system out either....most of us aren't.  I just want to see changes that would have significant impact.  I don't really care about the changes that give the appearance of trying fix things, but in the end, do very little to fix anything.

 
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Now rhat Hillary appears to be the overwhelming favorite to win, its easier and safer for those who are going to vote for Johnson, Stein, or simply abstain from voting at the top of the ticket to make their cases. They likely no longer have to deal with the catastrophe of a Trump victory. 
Thanks for your permission to vote for the guy I actually support.  I feel so much better now.

 
There is no need to revolt against government. There is however a need to revolt against the nomination process. It's obvious to everyone, even those willing to vote for the lesser of two evils every year. The fact that you can't see it does not surprise me at all. You've been blind on many issues. The NSA issue perhaps being the best example. 
The job of political parties is to get someone from their Party elected, which is exactly what the DNC did. 

As far as revolting from the nomination process, I thought that what happened with Obama and Bernie?

 
Thanks for your permission to vote for the guy I actually support.  I feel so much better now.
If your vote is a protest against the two Parties, good, if it's because you think he's the best choice to lead the country starting in January, not so good.

 
Revolt: an attempt to put an end to the authority of a person or a body.

In this case the bodies are the republican and democratic parties. 
OK so you want to see an end to our current two party system, which, with all its hiccups, has served us fairly well since 1865. 

At least IMO (others may differ) you haven't made a compelling argument for doing so. 

 
GJ has flaws.  But, compared to Donald and Hillary they pale in comparison.
Gary is a good guy, but only slightly more prepared to execute the office of President than Trump.  It's clear to anyone paying attention that he wants to spread the Libertarian message but isn't serious about being President.

 
Both parties are "rigged". I use quotes because the word means different things to different people. Those of us, like myself, that recognize it should come up with a better word because the word does come from a concept of corruption, which is not really what those of us recognizing the problem mean by it (although Trump probably does when he says it).

This country suffers from the fact that people do not get elected to federal offices and even state offices without great branding. Thus our representation in DC (and state governments) is filled with career politicians, actors, athletes, astronauts and other "celebrities". What this country needs is representation in government by the family doctor who knows every one of the 1500 kids names that he sees every year. We need representation in government by the owner of the one of a kind family restaurant that's been a hallmark of the town for the past two decades. We need representation in government by teacher who has taught 5th grade for the past 25 years. Etc, etc.... But we will never get that because both the republican and democratic parties are branding machines, and know that the family doctor, the restaurant owner, and the teacher, are completely unknown outside of their local circles, and thus lack the basis need for great national branding. The only politicians who ever break through these two branding machines are people with their own established brands, like Jesse Ventura, Donald Trump and even Ronald Reagan (he had a lot of opposition by the republican party before he became president). And while the occasional Reagan makes it look like the system is working, it's the status quo of career politicians, actors, athletes, astronauts and idiots like Ventura and Trump that should be evidence of just how broken, or "rigged" what we have is. Ultimately the system isn't rigged. The system is fine. It's the fact that the two parties are experts at beating the system that the system does not give us the representation that we need. 
Doesn't this come back to a Citizens United discussion about free speech? IN the earlier days of our country, a lot those doctor types got elected. Perhaps that's because there was no TV, no radio, no internet. Advertising was extremely limited. Newspapers existed, but were primarily local. The rich still had an advantage getting THEIR speech out, but it was possible for those of lesser means to be heard.

That's not the case now. It's all about advertising, IE: MONEY. 200 years ago, someone could debate locally, then regionally, and inside of a few years be highly placed in Washington without ever taking significant money from donors. That's not possible today. It take millions to be elected to Congress, let alone to the Presidency.

If we're ever going to fix this (and I don't think we can), the first step is to recognize and remove the effects of big money donors, to get rid of Super-PACs, limit/revise corporate shrills in Washington, and open the opportunities to run for office to those without significant cash.

 
Gary is a good guy, but only slightly more prepared to execute the office of President than Trump.  It's clear to anyone paying attention that he wants to spread the Libertarian message but isn't serious about being President.
Fair enough.  I don't necessarily disagree.  But, I still maintain his flaws overall are less concerning that the others.

The problem always has been a risk analysis in voting for someone that increased the chances Trump--who is by far worse than anyone, probably in history but certainly in this election--got elected.  Now that his support among independents has cratered, I feel comfortable voting my conscience and not the lesser of the Hillary-Donald evils.

 
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The job of political parties is to get someone from their Party elected, which is exactly what the DNC did. 

As far as revolting from the nomination process, I thought that what happened with Obama and Bernie?
Regarding the bolded, I agree... and that's the problem we suffer from. 

I suggested what I believe is a better nomination process earlier today, but 1) I acknowledge it would be difficult to implement given it would require a constitutional amendment; and 2) I'm open to any ideas to fix the problem, so I'm not committed to my solution and only my solution. What I am committed to is rejecting those who keep spewing garbage about keeping the existing system, such as the bolded. 

As for Obama, Bernie and even Trump (and I'd even throw Jesse Ventura and Reagan in that group as well), it is possible to beat the parties at their own game, but again the winner has to play the game. The problem is the game that needs to be played will nearly always result in what we've been getting. A new nomination system can be created to not produce that result, but that will never happen while so many people are against changing the nomination system. 

 
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2) The most interesting things look falsified
I pay attention to this stuff, and I have seen one document which appeared outright falsified. What's usually false or misleading are the summaries or 'analysis' pieces written by WL about what is in the emails.

 
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Fair enough.  I don't necessarily disagree.  But, I still maintain his flaws overall are less concerning that the others.

The problem always has been a risk analysis in voting for someone that increased the chances Trump--who is by far worse than anyone, probably in history but certainly in this election--got elected.  Now that his support among independents has cratered, I feel comfortable voting my conscience and not the lesser of the Hillary-Donald evils.
I agree, and think I'll vote for him too since my vote in California doesn't matter.  Hopefully it sends the message that I support social freedom, not cutting the government by 40%.

 
Plenty of us out there who may be voting Johnson, leaving the top of the ticket empty, or not showing up.
And while I don't agree, (mostly because I see Clinton as infinitely preferable to Trump, and because I see Trump as uniquely dangerous and utterly unqualified), that's a position I at least understand and respect

 
I pay attention to this stuff, and I have seen one document which appeared outright falsified. What's usually false or misleading are the summaries or 'analysis' pieces written by WL about what is in the emails.
What journalist wants to stake their reputation to hacked emails posted by Wikileaks?

 
If your vote is a protest against the two Parties, good, if it's because you think he's the best choice to lead the country starting in January, not so good.
Aren't you voting for Hillary Clinton?

If GJ could get a nail in the coffin of "the war on drugs" it would probably mean more to us in our everyday lives than anything Hillary does for her big donors.  

 
Shortly thereafter, REDACTED received a call from REDACTED of the. International Operations Division (IOD) of the FBI who "pressured" him to change the classied email to unclassified. REDACTED indicated he had been contacted by PATRICK KENNEDY, Undersecretary of State, who had asked his assistance in the email's classification in exchange for a "quid pro quo." REDACTED advised that, in exchange for marking the email unclassified, STATE would reciprocate by allowing the FBI to place more Agents in countries where they are presently forbidden.
- FBI Notes, Page 26.

Snip.

 
What journalist wants to stake their reputation to hacked emails posted by Wikileaks?
Reputation on what? State what it states and report on the possibility of disinformation. NYT & WaPo and other elite journalists are doing that right now. I can probably point you to the one instance of actually faked documentation if you like, but let me know if you know any others. Note, I'm distinguishing falsification of text or the emails themselves versus WL's statements about their contents.

However if any journalist does rely on WL's statements about the emails, yeah they're not journalists. But again that's different.

 
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Hillary is a proven fraud, a sexual predator protector with a long history of both dangerous words and actions.  She is also purposely fueling very dangerous flames all for personal gain and notoriety to feed her narcissism. 
Funny how it swings both ways.

 
KENNEDY told REDACTED (that the FBI's classification of the e-mail in question caused problems for KENNEDY and KENNEDY warned to classify the document as ''B9." KENNEDY further stated that the "B9" classification would allow him to archive the document in the basement of DoS never to be seen again. REDACTED was not sure of what KENNEDY meant by a "B9" classification [Note: B9) may be a reference to a FOIA exemption].

Not yet knowing the e-mail's content REDACTED told KENNEDY he would look into the e-mail matter if KENNEDY would provide authority concerning the FBI's request to increase its personnel in Iraq.


- Page 28, FBI Notes.

 
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REDACTED stated some of the BLUMENTHAL files were dated on or about January 2012, which was the same timeframe when REDACTED contacted REDACTED regarding the Libyan Rogue Nation Judgment Recovery Program (LRNJRP). REDACTED claimed he was hired by the Libyan opposition government to recover the assets of the MUAMMAR GADDAFI government. REDACTED also met with TYLER DRUMHELLER regarding the same matter. REDACTED 'speculated BLUMENTHAL, if involved in the LRNJRP, could have written the memos as a "shake and bake" tactic.
- Page 9, FBI Notes.

 
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Fine, let's say she's to blame for cutting welfare...IMO it had to be done to get Democrats back into power.   Would you rather have had a GHWB second term and Bob Dole in 1996?  It's very possible if Democrats stayed on the same path. 

We're on the same page as far as getting of fossil fuels.  If I were dictator of the U.S. I would create a Manhattan Project to do it in 10 years.  I believe our dependence on oil is our #1 national security risk. 

Where we differ on this are the political realities facing the President. Obama had done relatively little (in terms of the overall scope of the problem) but has faced criticism every step of the way.  The sad part is I don't know how much more he could have done and still keep the Democratic Party in the position it's in.  What I looking to get out of Hillary is a continued push toward renewable energy to weaken the power the Middle East has over us.

I consider CO2 levels a medium-to-long term issue.  What I see from climate scientists is alarmism that does more harm than good.  Yes, rising CO2 levels are a problem (albeit not as big as climate change scientists claim) but in a couple decades we will look back and laugh at our current renewable energy technology.  Research, not alarmism, is the key to solving the CO2 problem. 

Between battery storage technology as you said, hydrogen fuel cell technology, and the holy grail in my opinion of LTFR nuclear reactors I believe we'll be fine in 20 years.  And that doesn't even take into account unforeseen breakthroughs that we can't even imagine yet.  Let's just not blow the planet up in the meantime.
Yeah they had to make people's lives miserable. Take food off their table. Make them put off medicine they need. It was for their own good. Listen to yourself man. This is that team mentality I talk about. Whatever my side does is excusable because win. But what did you win? What did those people win? Pretty sure those families don't feel like they won. That sentence is about the saddest thing I have read in a long time.

By the way they did it in Arkansas. Why don't you outline what noble and glorious purpose that was for? Maybe they got some blue dog Democrats in the legislature. I am sure whatever it was it was worth it.

You know really that whole sentence has ruined my day. The callous disregard. The ends justify the means no matter who gets crushed team mentality. You are truly a Hillary supporter. I'm out you guys have a good day. And go team!

 
REDACTED reviewed the data provided by REDACTED and found files from BLUMENTHAL's server on a server in Romania. REDACTED believed BLUMENTHAL had a personal server because he found some of BLUMENTHAL's files on the server in Romania, but not any of BLUMENTHAL's emails. The Romanian server contained approximately 200 Microsoft Word, Excel, and other file types belonging to BLUMENTHAL.

In reference to a May 22, 2009 alleged intrusion of CLINTON's server appearing in a draft version of a report on REDACTED's project REDACTED stated he could not recall where he learned of the hack or the specific date. REDACTED speculated it was possibly from a public report, but he had looked for the source and could not find it. Therefore REDACTED planned to remove the reference from future iterations of the report.
During REDACTED's review of the data obtained by REDACTED he found one sensitive Excel file listing the names of known or suspected jihadists in Libya. REDACTED added that a portion of the file was in Russian. The file did not come from BLUMENTHAL's server, but contained a reference to an IP address range that included the IP address of CLINTON's server. Upon viewing this file REDACTED became concerned he had found a classified document and stopped the project.
- Page 9, FBI Notes.

 
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REDACTED believes STATE has an agenda which involves minimizing the classified nature of the CLINTON emails in order to protect STATE interests and those of CLINTON, Since the above incidents, REDACTED has received approximately 8 or 9 more emails from STATE involving FBI equities, 1 of which he believes may be classified SECRETI/NOFORN.
- Page 27, FBI Notes.

 
Latest FBI dump says that Hillary stole furniture and lamps from the State Department

she also stole silverware from the White House as first lady

on top of everything else, she's a common thief 

 
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