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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

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Everybody here, including me, thinks they know Hillary Clinton. But the most important pages of her biography have yet to be written. History will remember her, for good or ill, for what she does during the next 4-8 years. (This is true of every President we've ever had with the sole exceptions of the first half dozen, Ulysses S Grant, and Eisenhower. For everybody else, the years prior to the presidency, no matter how dramatic, are considered prelude.) 

 
timschochet said:
Everybody here, including me, thinks they know Hillary Clinton. But the most important pages of her biography have yet to be written. History will remember her, for good or ill, for what she does during the next 4-8 years. (This is true of every President we've ever had with the sole exceptions of the first half dozen, Ulysses S Grant, and Eisenhower. For everybody else, the years prior to the presidency, no matter how dramatic, are considered prelude.) 
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ETA- I should have added Harrison and Taylor to that group as well since they both died too soon to have a history as President...

 
timschochet said:
The Commish said:
"technically" ISIS?  Not much...but ISIS is just the next group to occupy the space left by our intervention.  That's what our government doesn't seem to get and hasn't gotten since I've been old enough to vote.  It's not enough to "eliminate ISIS".  The void left behind has to be filled as well.  Our government doesn't seem to understand how to get the appropriate people in place to fill that void.  Of course, this isn't our government's fault...they are really powerless in that sort of endeavor.  It's not something they can control.  Extremism can't be stomped out.  We can only hope to manage it (if we insist on doing something to begin with).  Managing it requires the US to be a permanent fixture in the area.  People don't like to hear that, but it's the only way.  Personally?  I don't think the area is worth that kind of investment until it's been demonstrated that the area itself is ready for change.  We're just throwing money down the drain until then.
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I have disagreed a lot with you over the last several months but I think you're dead right here, and it was the same point that John McCain made in 2008. 

We spent a lot of time and money reshaping western Germany and Japan after World War II. We basically took two nations that had been destroyed and rebuilt them as stable democracies and eventual economic powerhouses. If we had treated those nations the way we have treated the Middle East in this century, extremism would have surely taken root and prospered. Perhaps, as a nation we simply lack the national will to do good things and fight evil that we had back then.
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I'm waaaaaaaaay too lazy to go back and find the Iraq thread and the posts there, but my thoughts were pretty much the same.  I didn't think it was a good idea because we didn't (and still don't) have the will/desire to do this whole Middle East thing the correct way, and even if we did, the people there don't.  That's another difference between now and WW II.  The people were ready for stabilization and democracy.  The ME today?  Not so much.

 
The Commish said:
, and even if we did, the people there don't.  That's another difference between now and WW II.  The people were ready for stabilization and democracy.  The ME today?  Not so much.
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This part I'm less sure of. What makes people ready for stabilization and democracy? What are the important factors? This is a very complicated issue.

 
David Dodds said:
I am curious from those that are a long-time Democrats. You guys love Hillary's positions on these things?

- Being cozy with Wall-Street and Soros

- Loves Fracking

- Has shown a propensity to want to meddle with all things Middle-east.

- Had her hands deep in the TARP crisis to bail out the big banks.

- Her public and private positions on matters 

- Open Trade (that nearly always translates to lost jobs in America)

I get why Tim likes her.  She represents a lot of conservative principals.  Not sure why Democrats are rolling over for her. If it's about lesser of the two-evils, I suppose I can buy that to a point, but how is it winning when your candidate supports a lot of nonsense like fracking and being in bed with Wall Street.  Are you going to criticize her then when she starts rolling out a bunch of stupid measures or gets us into wars for her and her friends gain?    
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Sir, am I to believe you are entertaining a Trump Presidency?

I also just wanted to plug your blog for anyone that is unaware of it. I hate to jink the ungodly luck I have had playing your double up list with slight mods for DKs where I like to play. Cannot thank you enough for a renewed interest in my Sunday football. Some of those same double ups have also been sweet tournament rosters as well. 

 
timschochet said:
This part I'm less sure of. What makes people ready for stabilization and democracy? What are the important factors? This is a very complicated issue.
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Perhaps they weren't ready for democracy.  That might have been a step far, but I think after the US going in and turning their countries on their heads, they were ready to get back to normalcy, and whatever it took to get there was what it seemed they were willing to do.  Of course there were some exceptions (East vs West Germany) but for the most part, they wanted to turn the page.

 
shader said:
I honestly don't care anymore.  Think what you want, it's all a big joke anyway.
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Yeah, I resigned to our next four years being a big joke many months ago. Now I just come here to enjoy playing "whack-a-mole" with delusional Hillary supporters. It's a waste of time doing it with Trump supporters because they're just too easy. Hillary supporters actually put up a challenge. If this were a Pokemon Go type smart phone game, it would make millions. 

 
timschochet said:
Everybody here, including me, thinks they know Hillary Clinton. But the most important pages of her biography have yet to be written. History will remember her, for good or ill, for what she does during the next 4-8 years. (This is true of every President we've ever had with the sole exceptions of the first half dozen, Ulysses S Grant, and Eisenhower. For everybody else, the years prior to the presidency, no matter how dramatic, are considered prelude.) 
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The fact the No Fly Zone issue is not penetrating her stubborn brain is worrisome. I can see how her just doing dumb stuff just happens. I hope they hog tie her on that one and in general that she will not be living in a bubble will help her make decisions because the WH has so many moving parts.

 
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David Dodds said:
I am curious from those that are a long-time Democrats. You guys love Hillary's positions on these things?

- Being cozy with Wall-Street and Soros

- Loves Fracking

- Has shown a propensity to want to meddle with all things Middle-east.

- Had her hands deep in the TARP crisis to bail out the big banks.

- Her public and private positions on matters 

- Open Trade (that nearly always translates to lost jobs in America)

I get why Tim likes her.  She represents a lot of conservative principals.  Not sure why Democrats are rolling over for her. If it's about lesser of the two-evils, I suppose I can buy that to a point, but how is it winning when your candidate supports a lot of nonsense like fracking and being in bed with Wall Street.  Are you going to criticize her then when she starts rolling out a bunch of stupid measures or gets us into wars for her and her friends gain?    
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No. Barack and Bernie supporter here. Hillary is a republican, essentially, on foreign policy and economic policy for the most part. She is more socially progressive, but in many ways a republican essentially nonetheless. She is center-right to Obama's center, and that has been a disappointment in some ways. I can't say I see so much rolling over for her at all, even in here.

But just because I don't get my candidate, I'm not just going to take my ball and go home. Bottom line is that she's a superior choice to Trump in countless ways. She has a platform I can mostly agree with, and I trust the SC nominations she'll bring forward will make sense.

ETA: Answering the question "You guys love Hillary's position on these things?" with that response.

 
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Grace Under Pressure said:
No. Barack and Bernie supporter here. Hillary is a republican, essentially, on foreign policy and economic policy for the most part. She is more socially progressive, but in many ways a republican essentially nonetheless. She is center-right to Obama's center, and that has been a disappointment in some ways. I can't say I see so much rolling over for her at all, even in here.

But just because I don't get my candidate, I'm not just going to take my ball and go home. Bottom line is that she's a superior choice to Trump in countless ways. She has a platform I can mostly agree with, and I trust the SC nominations she'll bring forward will make sense.

ETA: Answering the question "You guys love Hillary's position on these things?" with that response.
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Problem is that she really has no desire to actually implement most of her platform

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
No. Barack and Bernie supporter here. Hillary is a republican, essentially, on foreign policy and economic policy for the most part. She is more socially progressive, but in many ways a republican essentially nonetheless. She is center-right to Obama's center, and that has been a disappointment in some ways. I can't say I see so much rolling over for her at all, even in here.

But just because I don't get my candidate, I'm not just going to take my ball and go home. Bottom line is that she's a superior choice to Trump in countless ways. She has a platform I can mostly agree with, and I trust the SC nominations she'll bring forward will make sense.

ETA: Answering the question "You guys love Hillary's position on these things?" with that response.
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I see her as an unlikable female version of Bill Clinton.  Her Presidency will the second-coming of Bill's (minus the coming).

 
timschochet said:
I have disagreed a lot with you over the last several months but I think you're dead right here, and it was the same point that John McCain made in 2008. 

We spent a lot of time and money reshaping western Germany and Japan after World War II. We basically took two nations that had been destroyed and rebuilt them as stable democracies and eventual economic powerhouses. If we had treated those nations the way we have treated the Middle East in this century, extremism would have surely taken root and prospered. Perhaps, as a nation we simply lack the national will to do good things and fight evil that we had back then. 
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Ridiculous. To compare Germany and Japan to the ME is laughable at best. 

 
Slapdash said:
Grace Under Pressure said:
No. Barack and Bernie supporter here. Hillary is a republican, essentially, on foreign policy and economic policy for the most part. She is more socially progressive, but in many ways a republican essentially nonetheless. She is center-right to Obama's center, and that has been a disappointment in some ways. I can't say I see so much rolling over for her at all, even in here.

But just because I don't get my candidate, I'm not just going to take my ball and go home. Bottom line is that she's a superior choice to Trump in countless ways. She has a platform I can mostly agree with, and I trust the SC nominations she'll bring forward will make sense.

ETA: Answering the question "You guys love Hillary's position on these things?" with that response.
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Problem is that she really has no desire to actually implement most of her platform
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I think she absolutely knows what she wants to do and has a platform for those things.  We just don't know, for sure what those things are.  Outside of women's health and children what are other positions that you'd be willing to lay substantial amounts of money on that she'd get accomplished?

 
what is the mess that she created?


Re: FYI CGI Africa



From:huma@hrcoffice.com To: robbymook2015@gmail.com, john.podesta@gmail.com  Date: 2015-01-18 13:57 Subject: Re: FYI CGI Africa
Thank you for sharing. Just to give you some context, the condition upon which the Moroccans agreed to host the meeting was her participation. If hrc was not part if it, meeting was a non-starter. CGI also wasn't pushing for a meeting in Morocco and it wasn't their first choice. This was HRC's idea, our office approached the Moroccans and they 100 percent believe they are doing this at her request. The King has personally committed approx $12 million both for the endowment and to support the meeting. It will break a lot of china to back out now when we had so many opportunities to do it in the past few months. She created this mess and she knows it. ________________________________ From: Robby Mook <robbymook2015@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:38:52 AM To: Huma Abedin; John Podesta Subject: FYI CGI Africa Came up on our call with HRC. John flagged the same issues we discussed, Huma. HRC said she's sitll considering.
 
The Commish said:
I think she absolutely knows what she wants to do and has a platform for those things.  We just don't know, for sure what those things are.  Outside of women's health and children what are other positions that you'd be willing to lay substantial amounts of money on that she'd get accomplished?
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Invading a country?

 
Slapdash said:
The Commish said:
I think she absolutely knows what she wants to do and has a platform for those things.  We just don't know, for sure what those things are.  Outside of women's health and children what are other positions that you'd be willing to lay substantial amounts of money on that she'd get accomplished?
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Invading a country?
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So....I was feeling some mixed emotions last night when she was talking about Russia and Putin.  In real time, I was thinking, "wow, that's tough talk....fighting words.  She's trying to go to war right now".  This morning, after thinking about it, I've walked that back.  It's been so long that we have had a strong position against anyone that a standard position seems tough right now.  

But yeah...she's invading somewhere, just not sure where.

 
The Commish said:
So....I was feeling some mixed emotions last night when she was talking about Russia and Putin.  In real time, I was thinking, "wow, that's tough talk....fighting words.  She's trying to go to war right now".  This morning, after thinking about it, I've walked that back.  It's been so long that we have had a strong position against anyone that a standard position seems tough right now.  

But yeah...she's invading somewhere, just not sure where.
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Just check the Clinton Foundation records...if they didn't give money they are on the potentials list...

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
:lmao:

If the Republicans can come to their senses, she'll be a one-termer.  
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Of course.  But they'll spend the next 4 years obstructing, investigsting, and crawling deeper into their alternative media bubble.  Hillary is too hated, they won't be able to help themselves

My guess at least

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/clintons-morocco-117979.html#ixzz3aEUeWMgA
 



It doesn't get mentioned much but one thing that does turn up on those tax returns is that the presidential library is one of the sub-entity non-profits within the Foundation.

Here we have the SOS and the almost certain next president making policy with regard to Morocco on the one hand, and her husband and daughter staying in the King's palace on the other and taking in millions of dollars.... in charity.

The nationally owned phosphate company in the meantime has been a frequent human rights abuser. That's a report by ABC by the way.

“See you tonight, Turki,” he told his royal highness." - WaPo

Oh look, it's another global bank, gosh those unselfish banks sure do love to shovel money into the Foundation:
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Baloney Sandwich said:
what is the mess that she created?


Re: FYI CGI Africa


From:huma@hrcoffice.com To: robbymook2015@gmail.com, john.podesta@gmail.com  Date: 2015-01-18 13:57 Subject: Re: FYI CGI Africa

Thank you for sharing. Just to give you some context, the condition upon which the Moroccans agreed to host the meeting was her participation. If hrc was not part if it, meeting was a non-starter. CGI also wasn't pushing for a meeting in Morocco and it wasn't their first choice. This was HRC's idea, our office approached the Moroccans and they 100 percent believe they are doing this at her request. The King has personally committed approx $12 million both for the endowment and to support the meeting. It will break a lot of china to back out now when we had so many opportunities to do it in the past few months. She created this mess and she knows it. ________________________________ From: Robby Mook <robbymook2015@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:38:52 AM To: Huma Abedin; John Podesta Subject: FYI CGI Africa Came up on our call with HRC. John flagged the same issues we discussed, Huma. HRC said she's sitll considering.
Click to expand...


- Tied together with a bow, quite nicely, thanks.

 
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timschochet said:
And you're doing it again. You just wrote "She has taken cash." But she didn't. The Foundation took cash. Her husband took cash for speaking fees. There is no conflict of interest.
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Now:

Baloney Sandwich said:
"This was HRC's idea, our office approached the Moroccans and they 100 percent believe they are doing this at her request. The King has personally committed approx $12 million both for the endowment and to support the meeting. It will break a lot of china to back out now when we had so many opportunities to do it in the past few months. She created this mess and she knows it."
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- Huma Abedin.

 
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maxwelledison said:
Ridiculous. To compare Germany and Japan to the ME is laughable at best. 
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This is an easy comment to make in 2016, after nearly 80 years of economic and political stability in Germany and Japan. But (and I base this on history books, because I wasn't there) if you were traveling in one of those countries in 1945, you might very well come to the conclusion that Germany and Japan were in fact much WORSE off than any middle eastern country- virtually all industry was destroyed, starvation and disease was rampant, and all societal rule had completely broken down. That is much worse, for example, than Iraq was after we removed Saddam Hussein in 2003- Iraq's industries and societal structure was largely intact.

Now there are other differences as well- both Germany and Japan had more literate cultures. Both countries were more homogeneous than Iraq, (which is basically not a nation at all but 3 nations merged together by Winston Churchill for political purposes after World War I), and there are plenty of other cultural and societal differences as well. But the main point is not a nation's readiness for stability, but our commitment to providing it. In the case of Germany and Japan, this nation overcame many obstacles and built up both societies. In the case of Iraq, we barely tried.

Case in point- in Germany we oversaw the creation of their new political parties, helped them get established, carefully weeded out Nazi influences, instituted a new judicial and education system- all of this took years, and was crucial to the stability of the modern German state. In Iraq, we quickly arranged an election without any guidance, with predictable results: the Shia majority voted themselves into power and immediately started persecuting Sunnis and Kurds while we watched, refusing to lift a finger. We let Iraq form their own justice and education (both of which are a corrupt joke) and we watched, refusing to lift a finger. And then we left as quickly as we could skedaddle out of there.

 
pantagrapher said:
[My schtick, for those who don't know, is when people whinge about Hillary Clinton being a horrible candidate, I point out that she's actually a very good candidate.]
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Such a good candidate she couldnt put away a lunatic. She is the least liked Democrat to run for president and her voters are not very enthusiastic.

 
NCCommish said:
Such a good candidate she couldnt put away a lunatic. She is the least liked Democrat to run for president and her voters are not very enthusiastic.
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Let's be fair.  She was able to put away the lunatic when he started bragging about sexually assaulting women.  We should all marvel at the political skill needed to capitalize on a tiny liability like that.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Let's be fair.  She was able to put away the lunatic when he started bragging about sexually assaulting women.  We should all marvel at the political skill needed to capitalize on a tiny liability like that.
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I know this will be a popular narrative assuming she wins, but it's not quite true.  She began pulling away after the first debate, when she played him like a fiddle.

Here's the 538 forecast, you can check their probabilities based on polling on a day by day basis under "how the forecast has changed.  The first debate is marked on the graph. The tape was released October 7- by then she was already within about 5% of where she currently stands.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
what is the mess that she created?
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05/06/15:

Ibrahim wondered aloud why the foundation isn’t doing more to highlight its years of bringing together governments, corporations and wealthy individuals to improve education and alleviate poverty and hunger around the world.

“I just could not understand. I didn’t see anybody from the foundation standing up,” he said during the opening panel Wednesday, turning to press Bill Clinton directly as three other panelists sat in silence. “You should have stood up and really took issue — what is this money for? What have you done with it? … What’s the problem?”

Clinton, appearing slightly uncomfortable, answered “I just work here, I don’t know,” prompting some nervous laughter from the audience. The former president suggested the media scrutiny was just politics. “You know, there is one set of rules for politics in America and another set for real life. And you just have to learn to deal with it.”

But Ibrahim, apparently unwilling to let go of the subject, interrupted the president, protesting, “These were not tabloids. These were respectable newspapers.”

... The CGI meeting kicked off Tuesday evening at a lavish palm-tree-lined golf resort with a cocktail reception featuring Moroccan hors d’oeuvres and a saxophonist serenading about 50 donors, non-profit leaders and dignitaries including Saudi Prince Turki Al Faisal. ...
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http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/mo-ibrahim-react-clinton-foundation-117681

 
From:jpalmieri@hillaryclinton.com

To: hdr29@hrcoffice.com, john.podesta@gmail.com, ha16@hillaryclinton.com, re47@hillaryclinton.com, kschake@hillaryclinton.com

Date: 2015-05-02 13:23

Subject: WJC NBC interview

MS et al - We got a readout of WJC's NBC interview from our friends in Africa. Going in, NBC agreed to do 70 percent of the piece on work of the Foundation and 30 percent about the book. Cynthia McFadden was the interviewer and didn't ask one question about work of the Foundation. Not one. Absurdly, NBC is still promising Craig that they will stick by 70-30 agreement by using footage of the events and Cynthia describing the work of the Foundation. Not sure it will help, but I called Chuck Todd (as head of political unit) to let him know how outrageous and ludicrous this was and that our side of the house is watching to see how NBC handles this. The piece will air on Monday on the Today show.

...
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https://www.wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12196

 
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