FFPC 1.5 TE PPR
Reggie Bush RB
Antonio Gates TE
for
Doug Martin RB
Percy Harvin WR
Back in May startups Martin was #1 overall in many drafts and top 3 in almost all, Harvin a top 20 pick
Bush a 3rd/4th rounder and Gates a 10th rounder
Hugely short-sighted by the team trading Martin and Harvin. I'm a win now owner generally, but this one is pretty horrendous. Martin and Harvin are cornerstone players for the next half decade plus.
well the guy getting Bush and Gates is quitting the league so.......................
I almost never favor a veto, but that deserves a veto. It's a league altering trade that greatly weakens the team for whoever gets it next year.
I was the party in this trade receiving Martin and Harvin. In a vacuum, this trade is in fact lopsided. I thought some context surrounding the trade would help.
First of all, whether this owner will stay or go after the year is speculation only. The evidence backing up Ghostguy’s claims, as far as I know, is strictly the trade itself. The owner of this team has been one of the top owners over the last 3 years.
As for the attractiveness of this team next year if the owner were to leave, the team is left with Cam Newton, Eddie Lacy, Reggie Bush, Lesean McCoy, Cecil Shorts, Stevie Johnson, Mike Wallace, Jordan Cameron, Antonio Gates, Greg Olsen (remember, 1.5 PPR). If this team hits the open market, it will likely be the first team snapped up (at no less than full price). No issues with marketability at all.
Third, from my team’s perspective, as odd as it may seem, I was torn on making this trade despite the heavy value on the Martin/Harvin side. I considered my team as the top contender for 2013, but I had no RB depth behind Trent Richardson and Reggie Bush. My 2013 hopes now rest with….Jonathan Stewart and the successful recovery of David Wilson??? Yikes.
My team in general lacked depth (partly due to the loss of Julio Jones and the investment in futures like Cordarrelle), but counting starters only, with Reggie Bush (and backup Antonio Gates), the team was very strong (WRs/TE even minus Julio were Calvin, AJ Green, Demaryius Thomas and Harry Douglas with Gronk in 1.5 PPR) and still one of the top scoring teams in the FFPC’s 20+ leagues. This trade was not simply a trade of now for the future. It was quite possibly a trade of a TITLE in 2013 for the future.
Because of the above, what should have been a slam dunk accept/offer was not one. It started with a Martin for Bush inquiry which I shot down immediately. I would not trade a title for what “may” be an upgrade of Bush to Martin in the future. Bush is as great in Detroit as some predicted he would be. He looks absolutely dynamic. While already 28, I don’t know that he has fewer stud years than lets say Ray Rice whom many consider to be “still young”. I’m not even sure that Bush has fewer stud years in him than Martin himself. I don’t like my RBs once they hit 26, but once you get to 28 and still look strong, its difficult to say that the strong looking 28 year old will run out of gas before the 26 year old (because to me, they are both already old). As such, Bush for Martin wasn’t a consideration. Contrary to Dez’s post, the fact that Martin was drafted early in startup drafts and Bush much later is now irrelevant. Circumstances have changed. In this league, at this time, I preferred Bush over Martin.
Question then is, what profit would be great enough where I would be willing to trade Bush and what was looking to be a title in 2013? Keep in mind, this is not just any title, since $4500 goes along with it. The answer: I needed Harvin’s value over Gates to make it worth my while and risk.
So this was not the typical situation where a team looking to rebuild was selling older vets to a team looking to win now. This was the top “redraft” team, late in the season, jeopardizing and likely crushing its own title hopes for the sake of future gains, and possibly handing the keys to the 2013 championship car to another contending team. Even considering the future gains, one might argue that my team ALREADY had enough for the future and did not need to risk 2013. I certainly considered that and it is quite possible that this move will reduce my overall winning potential (because of the 2013 loss) rather than increase it.
Finally and what I think is most important in evaluating the trade is how the trade went down and the opportunity that was given to all owners. This owner announced to the league that he wanted to win now and would take the best offer for his injured players (i.e., Martin and Harvin). He announced this not once, but twice.
Having been given the opportunity, I don’t think anyone in the league was willing to give more than Bush and Gates for Martin and Harvin (and the fact is, no one offered more). I’m pretty sure none of the contenders would have made a better offer even if the sale were conducted auction style.
Ghostguy and Dez, you two now have perhaps the top redraft team in this very league. Would you have offered more and jeopardized your own title run? If so, what would you have offered that would provide a bigger punch than Bush and Gates, and why did you not offer it? Or, did you decide that you were “all in” this year and that offering your firepower was not in the best interest of your team?
When I made my offer (which again was not the slam dunk that I would normally think it would be), I knew there was a risk that someone else in the league (like another one of the better teams like Dez/Ghostguy) could benefit from a great deal instead of me, but judging from my own trepidation in making this trade, I was confident my fellow contending owners (especially those without yet a title under their belts) would feel the trepidation even more. In the off chance that perhaps Ghostguy/Dez would step up and beat the offer, I really wouldn’t have minded (possibly even celebrated). I would have LOVED it if Dez/Ghostguy stepped up and traded away Marshawn Lynch and Jason Witten for Martin/Harvin as an example.
As such, considering that (1) I had little to no wiggle room in my own offer due to my team’s circumstances and (2) I was confident no one would beat my offer for the same reasons, in this league, at this time, Bush and Gates was the right price for Martin and Harvin (as strange as that may sound).
Now whether this owner should have gone this direction in the first place is a different question entirely. I would never advise any team to make such a trade. I certainly would never make such a trade no matter the circumstances. But the lure of $4500 can be great, and with Martin and Harvin, this team was dead in the water in 2013. Given the strong desire to trade those two non-productive “future” pieces in order to win now, a desire felt by many a dynasty owner, Bush and Gates really was the best this team could do.
Ok, flame away