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***Official Jays Thread*** They spent $234 Million on this? (1 Viewer)

Cliff Clavin said:
Now the important question. Do we get a different broadcast crew for next round? I was really happy to find out that we didn't get Buck and Pat in the first round... that happiness lasted about 3 innings.
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And it gets worse :wall:

 
Baffled by the approach in this game.

Was constantly away, didnt see many attempts to go the other way...just stand there and take strikes?

Once the ump has established the zone...adjust and hit. Frustrating watching Encarnacion and Tulo stand there with the bat on their shoulder and take the same called third strike with two men on.

 
Strange, I was watching in a bar so avoided the commentary, were they saying it was a deliberate strategy to pound down and away after saying before hand the plan was to pitch inside?

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Cueto trying to knee Pillar in the face and complaining about signs being stolen from center field. What a swell guy :thumbup:
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Royals hit a lot of first pitches and no swing and miss last night so they're stealing signs too?

Or maybe sometimes pitchers are off and batters square up balls and there's no conspiracy.

 
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Northern Voice said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Cueto trying to knee Pillar in the face and complaining about signs being stolen from center field. What a swell guy :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Royals hit a lot of first pitches and no swing and miss last night so they're stealing signs too?

Or maybe sometimes pitchers are off and batters square up balls and there's no conspiracy.
Click to expand...
If they're that concerned that its happening, great :shrug: . Something else for them to worry while they're out there.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Northern Voice said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Cueto trying to knee Pillar in the face and complaining about signs being stolen from center field. What a swell guy :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Royals hit a lot of first pitches and no swing and miss last night so they're stealing signs too?

Or maybe sometimes pitchers are off and batters square up balls and there's no conspiracy.
Click to expand...
If they're that concerned that its happening, great :shrug: . Something else for them to worry while they're out there.
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The Jays have a rep for doing this, no? Do you think there's anything to that?

For what little it's worth, I want TOR to win this series.

 
"Good said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Northern Voice said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Cueto trying to knee Pillar in the face and complaining about signs being stolen from center field. What a swell guy :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Royals hit a lot of first pitches and no swing and miss last night so they're stealing signs too?Or maybe sometimes pitchers are off and batters square up balls and there's no conspiracy.
Click to expand...
If they're that concerned that its happening, great :shrug: . Something else for them to worry while they're out there.
Click to expand...
The Jays have a rep for doing this, no? Do you think there's anything to that?

For what little it's worth, I want TOR to win this series.
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Yes, ESPN had an article about it a few years ago (was linked on Deadspin today). Supposedly a guy in a white shirt sits in CF and relays signs to the hitters. Zero evidence to support it of course except for some cherry picked splits.

I certainly hope players are trying to steal signs. Pretty dumb not to. But I would also hope they aren't sinking to the Patriot's level of cheating though.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
"Good said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Northern Voice said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Cueto trying to knee Pillar in the face and complaining about signs being stolen from center field. What a swell guy :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Royals hit a lot of first pitches and no swing and miss last night so they're stealing signs too?Or maybe sometimes pitchers are off and batters square up balls and there's no conspiracy.
Click to expand...
If they're that concerned that its happening, great :shrug: . Something else for them to worry while they're out there.
Click to expand...
The Jays have a rep for doing this, no? Do you think there's anything to that?

For what little it's worth, I want TOR to win this series.
Click to expand...
Yes, ESPN had an article about it a few years ago (was linked on Deadspin today). Supposedly a guy in a white shirt sits in CF and relays signs to the hitters. Zero evidence to support it of course except for some cherry picked splits.

I certainly hope players are trying to steal signs. Pretty dumb not to. But I would also hope they aren't sinking to the Patriot's level of cheating though.
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Tango found that the difference in Toronto wOBA vs. Opponent wOBA between 2005 and 2008 was 25 (over 8k plate appearances), which is 5 SD away from the mean. I am pretty dumb but I know that means the chances of it being random are way less than 1%. There was some advantage after 2008, but it was not nearly as pronounced.

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/stealing_signs_in_toronto/

BTW, sign-stealing technically isn't illegal, so I don't even know if a good comp can be made to the Patriots. It's a violation of the "Unwritten Rules", the same ones that allow for intentionally injuring someone with a hard-thrown baseball for a myriad of reasons, so take that for what it's worth.


 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Good Posting Judge" data-cid="18503922" data-time="1445380740"><p><p><p> <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cliff Clavin" data-cid="18503856" data-time="1445379328"><p> I'd have to go back and look but i recall quite a few articles that thoroughly trashed it.The Patriots reference is to having someone outside the players doing it. If a guy on 2nd is stealing signs, that is on the pitcher/catcher. If it is outside of the players on the field, that is some bull#### and I hope it isn't true.And also, I just don't believe it is possible to do in that short of time and that no player spoke out about it after the fact.

 
Looks like the Jays will have Loup back for tomorrows game. Not sure how effective he will be. Reports seem to be a dying parent, so his head is elsewhere

C'mon Price.....One time!

 
Rough way to go out but can't ask for much more considering where they were halfway through the season...

The entire starting lineup is back for next year with potentially a huge upgrade at 2nd.

Hope Smoak is gone and Colabello gets the job at first.

Not sure Saunders is much of an upgrade in left. Would rather see Pompey as the 4th OF and rotated in regularly for Bautisat and Revere.

Rotation is going to need a ton of work. Stroman and... Would like to see Estrada back on a 2-3 year deal. Pickup Dickey's option as a #5'innings eater. Don't see Price coming back but who knows. At least 2 spots to fill and no young arms coming. Give Hutch a chance to start the season but a short leash. Would like to see Sanchez with another chance.

 
Jays were the better team, KC executed better, probably simple as that. Lost of missed opps - Goins ####### up the pop fly in game 2, Goins not getting a bunt down tonight, the ridiculous 2-1 call on Revere/generally not getting in Pompey from 3rd... but what can you do, those things happened

 
I hope they keep Sanchez in the pen. Not sure how I feel about him as a starter. This will obviously depend on what kind of starters they can get/keep.

 
Blue Jays General Manager Alex Anthopoulos is reportedly leaving the team after rejecting a contract extension, according to multiple sources, including Sportsnet.


This really sucks
 
Parmcat said:
Blue Jays General Manager Alex Anthopoulos is reportedly leaving the team after rejecting a contract extension, according to multiple sources, including Sportsnet.


This really sucks
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####### ridiculous.

 
Source: In their 1st & only meeting, new Jays prez Mark Shapiro scolded Alex Anthopolous & staff for trading so many top prospects this yr

this is a tweet from Rick Westhead

 
Well, that's interesting. I guess some change was inevitable when Shapiro was brought in but I'm surprised by the timing. Toronto had many opportunities to show Anthopoulos the door when the team was struggling. It's strange that he leaves right after the club achieves finally some success.

 
Eephus said:
Well, that's interesting. I guess some change was inevitable when Shapiro was brought in but I'm surprised by the timing. Toronto had many opportunities to show Anthopoulos the door when the team was struggling. It's strange that he leaves right after the club achieves finally some success.
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I think it's probably a matter of AA feeling that he deserved to be President, and with Shapiro being brought in it was pretty clear that that wasn't happening.

"Scolding" a GM and his entire staff -- if that is an accurate characterization -- is pretty bad form, regardless of how wise one thinks it is to trade off a lot of their farm. I can't imagine that he's the only guy that's going to jump ship.

 
"Good said:
Eephus said:
Well, that's interesting. I guess some change was inevitable when Shapiro was brought in but I'm surprised by the timing. Toronto had many opportunities to show Anthopoulos the door when the team was struggling. It's strange that he leaves right after the club achieves finally some success.
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I think it's probably a matter of AA feeling that he deserved to be President, and with Shapiro being brought in it was pretty clear that that wasn't happening.

"Scolding" a GM and his entire staff -- if that is an accurate characterization -- is pretty bad form, regardless of how wise one thinks it is to trade off a lot of their farm. I can't imagine that he's the only guy that's going to jump ship.
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If he thought it was bad in Toronto, just wait until he ends up in Miami.

 
@JonHeymanCBS: Dan jennings, gm then manager of marlins, has been dismissed. Had rift with loria while defending the players as manager.

 
From the sounds of it, the plan was put into motion last season when they started the search for Beeston's replacement. When they hired Shapiro this summer, the Jays were .500 and AA was going to be canned at the end of the season. Shapiro would have been promised control over player personnel and being able to bring in a GM of his choosing. Things changed and AA gave Toronto their best team in 20 years but it was already too late. He could have stayed with the same title but with his balls cut off. Ownership had to make him an offer so that they didn't look like even bigger pieces of ####.

Don't blame him for bailing. ####ty planning by a ####ty ownership group.

 
It sucks not because I don't think Shapiro can hire someone to do a good job, I just really liked AA and I think a ton of Jays fans really identified with the young-ish Canadian who literally started at the bottom with Montreal, moved quickly through the Jays organization and just built the best team in 22 years.

 
Alright, I'm finally at the point that I can think about next season. Was such a good run this season, a couple bounces in game 2 or 6 of the ALCS and who knows what may have happened, but can't dwell on that anymore.

I'm going to be honest, I'm scared of what Shapiro may do here. So much talk about rebuilding the farm system... I get that there are issues there, but this was the best offense in baseball by a wide margin and every position player is back. He has to make some attempt to add some starting pitching and take another run right?

Players we know are gone:

Navarro

Price, Buehrle

Lowe, Hawkins

Izturis

Players we know are back:

Entire starting lineup + Travis, Smoak, Saunders, Pompey

Stroman, Dickey, Hutchison

Sanchez, Osuna, Cecil, Hendricks

Question marks:

Estrada

Revere?

Assume a payroll of 135 million, 97 million gets you: Martin, Edwin, Colabello, Smoak, Travis, Goins, Tulo, Donaldson, Bautista, Pompey, Saunders, Pillar, Stroman, Dickey, Hutch, Cecil, Sanchez, Osuna, Hendricks. You have to add 6.7 million if you want to keep Revere (I would go with Bau/Pillar/Saunders/Pompey). You have to add 16 million if you qualify Estrada and he accepts (I would offer 3 years 35-40 million and hope for the best, no longer, no more money).

You also have to decide if Sanchez and Osuna are relievers or starters. Sanchez only has two (one?) elite pitches and maybe better suited to be a reliever but desperately wants to be a starter. Osuna has four plus pitches and projects well as a starter but loves the closer role. Gibbons indicated they would stretch out both... but I think ultimately one may end up back in the bullpen. I'm likely on an island here, but I would give both the opportunity to start (until they prove they can't) and once again plug in Cecil as closer.

Also, so many "insiders" keep mentioning a possible Tulo trade (or "reallocating" offensive talent for pitching), you have to wonder if he's more unhappy that is being let on. Goins/Travis would be an acceptable middle infield, but I like Goins a lot better as a utility type.

With AA gone, there is less loyalty to these guys. I would have bet on a Bautista extension from AA but now I don't know, same goes for Edwin.

I think there's a real chance next season is the end of going all-in. My fear is Shapiro brings in sustained mediocrity in his quest to rebuild the farm. Can easily see a lineup in 2017 with none of Bautista, Edwin or Tulo. He seems so focused on the farm, hopefully he comes to terms quickly with the realities of Toronto (i.e. no free agents born outside of Canada ever signing here necessitating the big trades AA made his name on).

 
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Only players signed beyond 2016 (lots of guys still under control in their arb and pre arb years including Donaldson and Stroman) are Martin and Tulo, both signed from 2017-19, both at $20M/season. But Shapiro has all kinds of flexibility beyond next season.

 
Also, seems a lot of local media are saying Bud Black and Eric Wedge will be brought in, which is probably good for having some more decent baseball minds and absolutely terrible for Gibbons' job security.

 
AA has wanted Davis for years, assume that's his influence through LeCava. I could definitely see a LH middle of the order bad bring a priority.

 
Pissing away money to get a lefty bat doesn't make sense when you have no rotation or bullpen. The offense was pretty good last year without and will be adding Travis and a full season of a competent bat in left.

 
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Losing director of international scouting Ismael Cruz to the Dodgers may turn out to be a bigger loss than AA.

 
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