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Official Josh Doctson - WR - Redskins (1 Viewer)
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Borden
Footballguy
On one of the FBG podcasts the guys were talking about Doctson being the slot receiver. I think Doctson would be best on the outside and I thought Garçon started out as the slot guy in Indy. I would think they're base/optimal set would be Jackson and Docton on the outsides, Garçon in the slot with Reed and Jones in the backfield. Taking Doctson off for dual TE and 2 back sets, sure. But you'd think he would be the WR to keep on in GL situations.
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I'm really surprised after reading through all that age debate that not a single person mentioned Roddy White, who in my opinion is Doctson's closest comp. White was also 23 when he was drafted and turned 24 in November..making him over a month older than Doctson and he had a pretty good career, so I think we can all R-E-L-A-X.
Shutout
Footballguy
I haven't read the thread to know the particulars of the argument but at the end of the day, age is age. 24 is a HUGE difference than 20 in dynasty ff. But even with age aside as a number, it makes you wonder "Okay, Doctson is polished and this good and he's 24. Will one of the other guys be that good or better once they have 2-3 more years of experience?"Jason3123 said:
That's kind of my take. If someone wants to say Doc is best right now, today, then okay, but how relatively good is he to his 20 and 21 year old competition?
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/25045/wr-josh-doctson-impresses-jay-gruden-in-everything-during-minicamp
A bit of a fluff piece, to be fair, but a couple interesting tidbits stood out to me:
" Also, in college, he rarely faced press-man coverage or was jammed. He'll have to learn how to deal with that in the NFL. The routes, too, are different. "
Given his frame I wonder how this will go for him. Could they use him from the slot more to help alleviate the concern? But this next one stood out to me even more.
" “A lot of the routes are deeper,” he said. “A lot of deep in-breaking routes. I probably didn't run one double move in college and we have a whole arsenal of double moves here. It's a little different in and out of breaks, getting your hips around. Things like that.”
The bold is mine. This concerns me. Not that he isn't athletic enough to develop the double-move as a tool in his belt but how long will it take for it to become second nature? Seems to me he is admitting to a fairly big hole in his game, a skill that has become a staple of the pro game. Am I blowing this out of proportion?
A bit of a fluff piece, to be fair, but a couple interesting tidbits stood out to me:
" Also, in college, he rarely faced press-man coverage or was jammed. He'll have to learn how to deal with that in the NFL. The routes, too, are different. "
Given his frame I wonder how this will go for him. Could they use him from the slot more to help alleviate the concern? But this next one stood out to me even more.
" “A lot of the routes are deeper,” he said. “A lot of deep in-breaking routes. I probably didn't run one double move in college and we have a whole arsenal of double moves here. It's a little different in and out of breaks, getting your hips around. Things like that.”
The bold is mine. This concerns me. Not that he isn't athletic enough to develop the double-move as a tool in his belt but how long will it take for it to become second nature? Seems to me he is admitting to a fairly big hole in his game, a skill that has become a staple of the pro game. Am I blowing this out of proportion?
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/25045/wr-josh-doctson-impresses-jay-gruden-in-everything-during-minicamp
A bit of a fluff piece, to be fair, but a couple interesting tidbits stood out to me:
" Also, in college, he rarely faced press-man coverage or was jammed. He'll have to learn how to deal with that in the NFL. The routes, too, are different. "
Given his frame I wonder how this will go for him. Could they use him from the slot more to help alleviate the concern? But this next one stood out to me even more.
" “A lot of the routes are deeper,” he said. “A lot of deep in-breaking routes. I probably didn't run one double move in college and we have a whole arsenal of double moves here. It's a little different in and out of breaks, getting your hips around. Things like that.”
The bold is mine. This concerns me. Not that he isn't athletic enough to develop the double-move as a tool in his belt but how long will it take for it to become second nature? Seems to me he is admitting to a fairly big hole in his game, a skill that has become a staple of the pro game. Am I blowing this out of proportion?
A bit of a fluff piece, to be fair, but a couple interesting tidbits stood out to me:
" Also, in college, he rarely faced press-man coverage or was jammed. He'll have to learn how to deal with that in the NFL. The routes, too, are different. "
Given his frame I wonder how this will go for him. Could they use him from the slot more to help alleviate the concern? But this next one stood out to me even more.
" “A lot of the routes are deeper,” he said. “A lot of deep in-breaking routes. I probably didn't run one double move in college and we have a whole arsenal of double moves here. It's a little different in and out of breaks, getting your hips around. Things like that.”
The bold is mine. This concerns me. Not that he isn't athletic enough to develop the double-move as a tool in his belt but how long will it take for it to become second nature? Seems to me he is admitting to a fairly big hole in his game, a skill that has become a staple of the pro game. Am I blowing this out of proportion?
Borden
Footballguy
Yes I think you are. 1) He's talking about it so I don't think it's something he can't do or is not getting better with. Usually, players don't talk openly about major flaws. He's not saying he can't, he's saying he's learning it. If REALLY want to be a Positive Pete, you could say that it's better that he is a blank canvas and learning from the best/NFL coaches rather than having to break bad habits he could've had. 2) He seems to be a good enough athlete that he should be physically able to develop double moves well. 3) The small things that he does to get separation and space at the point of the catch likely shows that he is a very good student. Or if those little things just come natural to him, put more weight on my second point.
Of course, it's better if we would heard "Wow, this kids double moves can already rival the NFLs elite." But I don't think it's really a major issue.
Of course, it's better if we would heard "Wow, this kids double moves can already rival the NFLs elite." But I don't think it's really a major issue.
Borden
Footballguy
The FBG email referenced the same article that Lemmings posted but I have to disagree with what they said.
"Doctson is fearless and has no problem pulling away from defenders after the catch. He should begin his pro career as a slot receiver behind DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon on the outside."
So I think there is two things that I really have to question. First, that Doctson is fearless. There's a difference between fearless and willing. Doctson is not fearless there's a few plays I saw Doctson go OB too early trying to avoid a hit. There's also a few others (in the middle) where he, IMO, went down early because he knew a hit was coming. I also believe, he a one of maybe two drops when it seems like he was more worried about the hit and lost concentration.
Second, this thing about Doctson in the slot doesn't make a ton of sense to me. He has some ridiculous stat about playing 98% of his snaps on one side of the field (I forget if it was the left or right side). The slot receiver is usually the one that's in movement the most. It also doesn't make sense to have him in the slot if he's going to be an outside WR next year. Also, the slot would limit his best skill set (deep/jump balls) and would highlight his one of his weaker skills (short area suddenness). Plus, I would think that Garçon and Jackson (more so Garçon) would probably be better suited for a slot role. If the idea is just to get Doctson in a position we he doesn't have to face press right away there's easier ways of doing with scheme until he is better against press.
I am one of the highest people in the SP on Doctson so, I'm not attacking Doctson but I would be pretty disappointed if this was the direction that Washington goes. Just seems like they are putting Doctson in a bad spot instead of doing a slight adjustment in positioning (not scheme, not personnel).
"Doctson is fearless and has no problem pulling away from defenders after the catch. He should begin his pro career as a slot receiver behind DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon on the outside."
So I think there is two things that I really have to question. First, that Doctson is fearless. There's a difference between fearless and willing. Doctson is not fearless there's a few plays I saw Doctson go OB too early trying to avoid a hit. There's also a few others (in the middle) where he, IMO, went down early because he knew a hit was coming. I also believe, he a one of maybe two drops when it seems like he was more worried about the hit and lost concentration.
Second, this thing about Doctson in the slot doesn't make a ton of sense to me. He has some ridiculous stat about playing 98% of his snaps on one side of the field (I forget if it was the left or right side). The slot receiver is usually the one that's in movement the most. It also doesn't make sense to have him in the slot if he's going to be an outside WR next year. Also, the slot would limit his best skill set (deep/jump balls) and would highlight his one of his weaker skills (short area suddenness). Plus, I would think that Garçon and Jackson (more so Garçon) would probably be better suited for a slot role. If the idea is just to get Doctson in a position we he doesn't have to face press right away there's easier ways of doing with scheme until he is better against press.
I am one of the highest people in the SP on Doctson so, I'm not attacking Doctson but I would be pretty disappointed if this was the direction that Washington goes. Just seems like they are putting Doctson in a bad spot instead of doing a slight adjustment in positioning (not scheme, not personnel).
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I had some concerns about Doctson's release. The first few steps of his routes and how he will deal with press coverage. Those concerns were alleviated somewhat due to Docton's combine performance, showing that he had good times in the 3 cone, short shuttle, that are certainly no substitute for technique he will need to develop to beat the jam, but do show he has enough short area quickness to be successful early on in his routes.
I spent a lot of time comparing him to DeVontae Parker as I think they are similar players in a lot of ways. I thought Parkers release was a bit better than Doctson's but in other areas I think they are pretty close to the same talent and ability.
I spent a lot of time comparing him to DeVontae Parker as I think they are similar players in a lot of ways. I thought Parkers release was a bit better than Doctson's but in other areas I think they are pretty close to the same talent and ability.
Borden
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Not sure. I don't recall Doctson playing from the slot too much.
Some coaches want their players to play positions unfamiliar to them as a way of teaching them more about everyone's role in the offense. Then when the games get real they have that player do what they do best.
Working from the slot allows for more motion and generally a cleaner release from the LOS but I don't really think that is Doctson;s game.I like him better outside stretching the field.
I mean, I didn't draft Doctson for his quick twitch ability. He's got size, speed, great acceleration, and an ability to go up and get the ball.
Mike JonesVerified account@MikeJonesWaPo
Gruden said Josh Doctson hurt his foot yesterday, got X-rays but came back negative. Hoping he'll be back next week.
10:57 AM - 1 Jun 2016
Gruden said Josh Doctson hurt his foot yesterday, got X-rays but came back negative. Hoping he'll be back next week.
10:57 AM - 1 Jun 2016
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Yea, he's already missed enough that he's guaranteed not to be starting when the regular season kicks off.
Was OBJ also off your redraft radar his rookie year when he missed the first four weeks with a hamstring?
steelers1080
Footballguy
That's exactly what I was thinking! I made that mistake once and don't plan on doing it again. I'm hoping you can now get him for a slight discount in dynasty leagues
Washington Redskins
✔ @Redskins
Gruden says Josh Doctson is close to returning. Doesn't have "full-speed burst" yet, but will start practicing "very soon."
12:11 PM - 30 Aug 2016
✔ @Redskins
Gruden says Josh Doctson is close to returning. Doesn't have "full-speed burst" yet, but will start practicing "very soon."
12:11 PM - 30 Aug 2016
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
So this kid is now practicing fully everyday after playing in the opener, all of which surprises many. What can we expect from him as a rookie? Is he talented but raw or can he be a rare rookie WR who can produce as a WR2-level guy? I drafted him but haven't seen him play much before.
Mike Jones
✔@MikeJonesWaPo
Josh Doctson has been placed on IR. Maurice Harris has been called up.
12:31 PM - 21 Oct 2016
✔@MikeJonesWaPo
Josh Doctson has been placed on IR. Maurice Harris has been called up.
12:31 PM - 21 Oct 2016
bostonfred
Footballguy
1.8 to 1.12, depending how guys start grading out.Gandalf said:
Someone just offered Doctson to me straight up for Emmanuel sanders in my dynasty league. Doctson is a $5 rookie and Sanders is $22 and in the final year of his contract so I wouldn't have him after this year anyway. Don't know much about Doctson except that he was a 1st rd pick and he flashed in 1 game he was active in this season. Should I take this trade? My team is in full rebuild mode and I'm 0-7. I'm leaning yes take it. I just don't know enough about Doctson.
