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*Official* Marvel's Black Panther movie (2 Viewers)

NewlyRetired said:
He was in Black Panther.

He was not in Blade 1, 2, or 3, XMen 2, Punisher 1 and 2, Elecktra, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, XMen Origins: Wolverine, and XMen First Class, 
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For good reason as majority of that list are crappy movies!

(altho I did like Blade 1 and XMFC)

 
Pink lives matter! Pink lives matter!

Who needs Chandler Bowman?!  Peter Sellers is plenty!

Pink lives matter! Pink lives matter!

 
One thing I didn't quite follow was when the king is the black panther and when he isn't.  Is it just when he gets old, he chooses some male heir to be black panther, even while he still reigns?

 
bigbottom said:
One thing I didn't quite follow was when the king is the black panther and when he isn't.  Is it just when he gets old, he chooses some male heir to be black panther, even while he still reigns?
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Was this addressed in Civil War?  I thought the king was Black Panther until he died, but did the prince have the suit before the dad died in that movie? 

 
Outstanding movie.  Excellent execution on the premise of a utopian society existing for centuries that turned a blind eye towards the atrocities on its own continent and the extension of those atrocities worldwide.  Not to mention how their advancements could have improved the world at large.  Ignoring that premise in order to make yet another movie about some interstellar baddie coming to take over the Earth would have been ignoring the elephant in the room to comical proportions. 

I can see kids not liking this movie as much as the other movies.  Saving the Earth from Loki, Dormamu or Thanos is probably a lot easier to digest and follow.  Nothing wrong in adults preferring those plotlines, either.  Movies are an escapism to most and nobody's escapism is better than another's. I'm just glad BP offered a different kind in an exceptional manner.

 
KarmaPolice said:
bigbottom said:
One thing I didn't quite follow was when the king is the black panther and when he isn't.  Is it just when he gets old, he chooses some male heir to be black panther, even while he still reigns?
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Was this addressed in Civil War?  I thought the king was Black Panther until he died, but did the prince have the suit before the dad died in that movie? 
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I think he is.  T'Challa might have had the suit, or just taken it up after T'Chaka's death.  But he wouldn't be considered the Black Panther, just a guy in the suit.  Wouldn't have had the heart seed thing either.

Speaking of the latter, I guess it has a short effectiveness if they have to give it to him before each fight?

 
GregR said:
I think he is.  T'Challa might have had the suit, or just taken it up after T'Chaka's death.  But he wouldn't be considered the Black Panther, just a guy in the suit.  Wouldn't have had the heart seed thing either.

Speaking of the latter, I guess it has a short effectiveness if they have to give it to him before each fight?
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He had the BP power when the movie started. Before the challenges they gave him some liquid that removed the power.  Whoever was victorious then drank the heart seed liquid and was buried.  Otherwise It wouldn’t be much of a challenge.  Now that begs the question why T’Challa had the BP power before the first challenge.
 
Andrew74 said:
GregR said:
I think he is.  T'Challa might have had the suit, or just taken it up after T'Chaka's death.  But he wouldn't be considered the Black Panther, just a guy in the suit.  Wouldn't have had the heart seed thing either.

Speaking of the latter, I guess it has a short effectiveness if they have to give it to him before each fight?
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He had the BP power when the movie started. Before the challenges they gave him some liquid that removed the power.  Whoever was victorious then drank the heart seed liquid and was buried.  Otherwise It wouldn’t be much of a challenge.  Now that begs the question why T’Challa had the BP power before the first challenge.
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AHHHHH.   Thanks, that makes a lot more sense.  I thought it unfair they were giving it to him but not the other guy.

 
Andrew74 said:
He had the BP power when the movie started. Before the challenges they gave him some liquid that removed the power.  Whoever was victorious then drank the heart seed liquid and was buried.  Otherwise It wouldn’t be much of a challenge.  Now that begs the question why T’Challa had the BP power before the first challenge.
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Huh, I guess I was confused because I thought that:

He got it for the original challenge, but it was taken away at the start of the other challenge.   And I thought the drug to see the dead people was something completely different from the BP liquid.  
 
Hang 10 said:
KarmaPolice said:
Ok, so maybe the first on that people actually went to see? ;)
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How old are you? Plenty of people went to see Blade. So many in fact that they decided to make 3 of them. 
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They are making Sharknado 6.  Not saying, just saying.  ;)

But seriously though, I think Karma's original point was well made.  There have been 17 MCU movies before this, plus numerous DC, with white male leads.  Little girls took to Rey and Wonder Woman in particular because of what they can see of themselves in the characters that aren't there in other Super Hero movies.  I'm sure it means a lot to many young black kids to see a lead character in the current generation that they also relate to.  The History of Comics tv show interviewing some of the black comic writers delved into this a lot too.

 
GregR said:
They are making Sharknado 6.  Not saying, just saying.  ;)

But seriously though, I think Karma's original point was well made.  There have been 17 MCU movies before this, plus numerous DC, with white male leads.  Little girls took to Rey and Wonder Woman in particular because of what they can see of themselves in the characters that aren't there in other Super Hero movies.  I'm sure it means a lot to many young black kids to see a lead character in the current generation that they also relate to.  The History of Comics tv show interviewing some of the black comic writers delved into this a lot too.
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Sharknado is a made for TV franchise. Not really comparable. Just sayin. 

 
I'm usually pretty easy to please for Marvel or DC movies. I give this film a Meh. Maybe Meh+.

Alright. Nothing to froth at the mouth about. Costumes were awesome. 

I think I will like the character better in the overall Marvell/Avengers setting. 

Had trouble not seeing Michonne in the lady warrior character all the time.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Huh, I guess I was confused because I thought that:

He got it for the original challenge, but it was taken away at the start of the other challenge.   And I thought the drug to see the dead people was something completely different from the BP liquid.  
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I was confused at first myself since I thought in the first challenge they were making him the Black Panther.  Then I realized the priest guy said they were removing the power.  They showed someone crushing the heart flower into a liquid to give to T’Challa before they buried him.  They did the same when they buried him in the snow at the gorilla tribe. They also did it to killmonger before burying him.  After killmonger was “resurrected” he said to burn all the heart plants.  He had the BP then as he choked and lifted the lady off the ground who protested. 

They also noted in the opening story that the first BP got his power after he ate a heart plant.
 
Saw it yesterday with the kids. Visually, it was great. Story-wise....meh. Some fun action sequences,  but I doubt I'll go out of my way to watch it again.

 
LAUNCH said:
**Spoilerific**

I am overly critical of most movies and this one is no exception. 

There were just too many characters and too many "hit the checkbox" decisions by the director.  In my opinion the hardest part of any hero movie is getting the villain correct and they got this one right, which is why I think this should have been much better.  MBJ was great and Chadwick Boseman was just as good as always.  To me though there wasn't enough of either of them and too much of everyone else, except Serkis who was better than everyone.  Martin Freeman should have been left back at the interrogation room.  Other than "we" need a white guy, for me, it felt like his time could have been cut short and given to more back story of MBJ.  

The sister was given way too much time as well.  I get the whole show a young girl in tech decision, but I believe she should have been handled more like a 'Q' type bond character and limited to showing the cool tech and less time overall.  They also bungled what could have been her best line.  Instead of telling Martin Freeman to "Get out now" and then cutting to Daniel Kaluuya, a crisper "Get out" would have been more comical.

I agree with Matuski that the last scene was cheesy.  I know there isn't a great way to throw in a slavery line, but they didn't execute it well.  Obviously the guy was King for a while, so it wasn't like he would have just missed ever seeing a Wakandan sunset, which was a key memory of his father.

A better use of time might have been showing the stealing of the initial vibranium heist.  Having Sterline K Brown and Serkis working together would have been fantastic.  I did go to the bathroom so I may have missed what the purpose of the museum robbery was.  They needed the vibranium to get money, but later MBJ said they didn't need it.  What they really needed was Serkis to take them to Wakanda, but then they really just needed his body because he could gain support of W'Kabi (Daniel Kaluuya).  But he didn't need that either, because once he got to Wakanda he had an actual claim to the throne. 

To me this was kind of like one of the bad Star Wars movies where they seemed to care more about having characters that would work to sell more toys, rather than focusing on making a great movie and assume that if they did that, that the kids would buy them anyway.  This movie instead of toys they subbed in checking the social issues boxes.  Which if it was packaged in a great movie and not what it is being portrayed by the critics, as a great movie because it hit all the boxes, would have been much better.
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The body helped him get in and show that he could accomplish things the King did not. He had a claim to the throne but needed to establish trust or a reason for W'kabi to bring him inside.

 
-OZ- said:
The body helped him get in and show that he could accomplish things the King did not. He had a claim to the throne but needed to establish trust or a reason for W'kabi to bring him inside.
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All he had to do was show him his inner lip and say who he was.  Assuming though that he did need the body of Klauem, the heist and the attempted selling of the vibranium was pointless.  In fact it may have been counterproductive to everything he was attempting.  Why give vibranium to his "oppressors"?

 
LAUNCH said:
All he had to do was show him his inner lip and say who he was.  Assuming though that he did need the body of Klauem, the heist and the attempted selling of the vibranium was pointless.  In fact it may have been counterproductive to everything he was attempting.  Why give vibranium to his "oppressors"?
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Bringing the bad guy helped him get the support of the kings friends and his troops.  That was a big plotline- the tension between them because he couldn't bring him to justice and return him like he promised. 

He wasn't giving the vibranium to his oppressors, he was delivering it the all the spies they had in other countries so they could rise up and overthrow all their governments. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
Bringing the bad guy helped him get the support of the kings friends and his troops.  That was a big plotline- the tension between them because he couldn't bring him to justice and return him like he promised. 

He wasn't giving the vibranium to his oppressors, he was delivering it the all the spies they had in other countries so they could rise up and overthrow all their governments. 
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Who was going to be the purchaser of the vibranium?

 
Overall, I thought it was a solid movie.  Some good comic relief and good action sequences.

I see the points about political/social awareness, but it didn't detract or add to the movie in any meaningful way for me.

Honestly, I thought the opening action sequence overshadowed the rest, partially ruining the movie for me.  The final battle was underwhelming.

Glad I saw it, but wouldn't tell people they have to see it in the theater to get the full effect.

7/10

 
LAUNCH said:
All he had to do was show him his inner lip and say who he was.  Assuming though that he did need the body of Klauem, the heist and the attempted selling of the vibranium was pointless.  In fact it may have been counterproductive to everything he was attempting.  Why give vibranium to his "oppressors"?
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It was Klaw that was selling the vibranium, not Killmonger. 

KM is setting out to erode Black Panther's power before KM even goes to Wakanda. KM gets Klaw involved in a vibranium theft figuring the Wakandans would notice, which would lure out Black Panther after Klaw.

Then KM helps Klaw escape. BP goes home in shame.  End result, Black Panther's failure erodes the loyalty of some of his subjects.  Subjects who will then respond extra favorably when Killmonger shows up with Klaw's body. 

Having Klaw's body is what assured a high level leader would investigate.  In the palace then he can reveal his heritage right in front of all the important people and make his challenge where it will be publicly known.  Without that, he might just end up being questioned in a jail cell without access to those in power.

The small amount of vibranium in the axe-head, even if it ended up in American hands, is a small price to pay for the advantage it gave KM to take Wakanda, and then send out entire plane-loads of weapons that utilize the stuff.
 
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GregR said:
It was Klaw that was selling the vibranium, not Killmonger. 

KM is setting out to erode Black Panther's power before KM even goes to Wakanda. KM gets Klaw involved in a vibranium theft figuring the Wakandans would notice, which would lure out Black Panther after Klaw.

Then KM helps Klaw escape. BP goes home in shame.  End result, Black Panther's failure erodes the loyalty of some of his subjects.  Subjects who will then respond extra favorably when Killmonger shows up with Klaw's body. 

Having Klaw's body is what assured a high level leader would investigate.  In the palace then he can reveal his heritage right in front of all the important people and make his challenge where it will be publicly known.  Without that, he might just end up being questioned in a jail cell without access to those in power.

The small amount of vibranium in the axe-head, even if it ended up in American hands, is a small price to pay for the advantage it gave KM to take Wakanda, and then send out entire plane-loads of weapons that utilize the stuff.
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https://youtu.be/NKbJSjbIGhE?t=1m28s

These guys had the same questions that I did.

 
According to both Metacritic(87) and RT (97), Black Panther is the highest rated Marvel movie ever. 

I mean it was good, but not even top 5 good in the MCU. 

 
LAUNCH said:
https://youtu.be/NKbJSjbIGhE?t=1m28s

These guys had the same questions that I did.
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Yeah, they missed what I said in my answer too.  The way he did it, it was not only about helping his own image... he hurt Black Panther's.

You could also throw in less obvious benefits that would make sense, like getting to scout Black Panther's abilities first hand, watching him go after Klaw and capturing him.

 
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Hov34 said:
According to both Metacritic(87) and RT (97), Black Panther is the highest rated Marvel movie ever. 

I mean it was good, but not even top 5 good in the MCU. 
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I'm not sure how Metacritic scoring works, but for Rotten Tomatoes, the highest Rotten Tomatoes score doesn't mean that it's "top 5 good" in the MCU.  It simply means that it has the most people who thought it was good.  All of the 97% of folks that scored it as good, may think it falls somewhere in the middle of the MCU (like I do).

 
GregR said:
Yeah, they missed what I said in my answer too.  The way he did it, it was not only about helping his own image... he hurt Black Panther's.

You could also throw in less obvious benefits that would make sense, like getting to scout Black Panther's abilities first hand, watching him go after Klaw and capturing him.
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https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-killmonger-klaue-plot-hole/

This article is similar to your line of thinking.  I disagree though.  It's a warrior culture and whoever wins the fight is the king.  As he showed after he was king and started destroying the heart-Shaped herbs, he wasn't there to win the hearts and minds.

 
Hov34 said:
I mean it was good, but not even top 5 good in the MCU. 
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I just got back from watching and agree with the above and with bigbottom.  Enjoyable flick, but middle of the MCU pack, IMHO.  If you don't have media hyped-up/97% RT score expectations, you'll have a good time.

As another poster has said, there is one mid-credit scene and one after credit scene.  

 
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LAUNCH said:
https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-killmonger-klaue-plot-hole/

This article is similar to your line of thinking.  I disagree though.  It's a warrior culture and whoever wins the fight is the king.  As he showed after he was king and started destroying the heart-Shaped herbs, he wasn't there to win the hearts and minds.
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Just being king wasn't enough, as events ended up showing.  He was the king, but everyone fought against him in the end except for the one group whose hearts and minds he won. 

If we point to mistakes he made... not capturing enough hearts and minds, and/or losing them via actions like burning the plants, were major parts of his ultimate failure.  

 
GregR said:
Just being king wasn't enough, as events ended up showing.  He was the king, but everyone fought against him in the end except for the one group whose hearts and minds he won. 

If we point to mistakes he made... not capturing enough hearts and minds, and/or losing them via actions like burning the plants, were major parts of his ultimate failure.  
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Only because T'Challa came back..otherwise Wakanda would have been "Joffreyed" and left up to whatever he chose.

 
Killmonger was described as being the a guy the government sends in to destabilize and take down regimes.  The parts of his plan you are complaining about are methods of doing exactly that.  They make great sense for him to have done.

People certainly can and do turn against leaders they don't like.  Correct me if I'm remembering wrong... the other tribal leaders were not even going to allow him to undertake the challenge to be king, were they?   It was only T'Challa who accepted when they were against it.   And that is how it went down even when KM had the benefit of the cred of killing Klaw first.

 
GregR said:
Just being king wasn't enough, as events ended up showing.  He was the king, but everyone fought against him in the end except for the one group whose hearts and minds he won. 

If we point to mistakes he made... not capturing enough hearts and minds, and/or losing them via actions like burning the plants, were major parts of his ultimate failure.  
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But he wasn't the king.  As soon as T'Challa returned, Killmonger's status as king was invalidated because he did not kill T'Challa in the challenge battle and T'Challa did not yield.  At best, the crown was disputed.

 
GregR said:
Killmonger was described as being the a guy the government sends in to destabilize and take down regimes.  The parts of his plan you are complaining about are methods of doing exactly that.  They make great sense for him to have done.

People certainly can and do turn against leaders they don't like.  Correct me if I'm remembering wrong... the other tribal leaders were not even going to allow him to undertake the challenge to be king, were they?   It was only T'Challa who accepted when they were against it.   And that is how it went down even when KM had the benefit of the cred of killing Klaw first.
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Can you only challenge when the crown is being passed from one king to the next?  Or can one of royal blood challenge whenever he feels like it?  I would think the former, otherwise some twenty-something could challenge an aging king and the battle would seem to be entirely unfair.  In any event, it was unclear to me whether Killmonger could legitimately challenge an already sitting king, which is why there may have been objections by the other tribe leaders.

 
bigbottom said:
But he wasn't the king.  As soon as T'Challa returned, Killmonger's status as king was invalidated because he did not kill T'Challa in the challenge battle and T'Challa did not yield.  At best, the crown was disputed.
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True, forgot dat.

 
I didn't like it very much (fell asleep in the middle before the 2nd King challenge).  It was okay, but the top Marvel movie?  I'd guess the reason for that is the same reason there's been so man Tyler Perry Madea movies.  The Black dolla.

 
eoMMan said:
Saw it last night...it was okay. A decent enough movie but far from excellent. 

And there were a lot of deaths/blood/fighting in the movie. Not really suitable for kids, imo.
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No blood.

My favorite part was how the outcast clan were called Jabronis

 
I liked it well enough, but it didn't feel like a superhero movie. it was almost like a new genre...historical fiction meets techno thriller. pretty good performances, especially from the ladies (Lupita Nyong'o and Danai Gurira). I felt Sterling K Brown wasn't given enough to do.

I usually like MBJ, but I felt his performance as Killmonger was a little off. it seemed a little uneven to me, but most people like his performance, so I guess it's fine.

 
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