*** Official Michael Turner 2007 offseason thread *** (1 Viewer)

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Dont worry guys he is getting traded. Keep your chins up. I have a feeling we will all be very exciting soon.

I'll take "Things You Hear At a Discount Strip Club" for $1000 please, Alex.

 

[Buffalo0987]

I haven't heard this "John Clayton News" anywhere. If there was anything to it, I think KFFL, FBG, Rotworld and others would be talking about it.

 

[Finatic]

Came across this last night:So there is still hope......

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...415/1328/SPORTS

 

[nygiants56]

I haven't heard this "John Clayton News" anywhere. If there was anything to it, I think KFFL, FBG, Rotworld and others would be talking about it.

I heard this John Clayton news earlier in the week..he basically said that teams needing a RB are more interested in MT than Lynch, and that it is possibly going to hurt Lynch's draft position..teams interested, figure they can get an established, experienced NFL RB for probably less $$ then what they would pay for Lynch. Now, they'd most likely have to give up a first rounder and a conditional pick in 2008 draft, but, thats probably going to cost them less than any contract they could sign Lynch to, and, Lynch is an even bigger unknown than MT ( unknown in that you don't know if eaither can be a starting RB, but at least MT has experience at the pro level)Clayton feels the Bills, Tenn,GB, Houston, or Giants/Jets will trade for MT..clayton went on to add that teams are very worried about getting beat with flops , i.e., Ryan Leaf or Ron Dayne types, that the new trend is to go with a player already playing in the NFL.

 

[alg]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

AJ must be feeding Clayton this BS.

... and the smoke has yet to clear....

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

 

[Couch Potato]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

 

[Tom Baker]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

As a Turner owner, I hope you're right and Clayton's wrong. I was just reporting what he said, which was that the Chargers were demanding a first, and neither Buffalo nor Tennessee was willing to pay. He said he expects Turner to remain a Charger.

 

[massraider]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

 

[Liquid Tension]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

Maybe I am way off here but why wouldn't he be cheaper than the 12th pick? Can someone tell me what the average dollar for the 12th pick has been when it is a RB? You must include the signing bonus' as well. What would you expect Turner to get in terms of a contract? I personally believe that the overall value of Turner instead of "Lynch" at the 12th spot is a better investment. This would take into account total dollars spent against the risk of how well the players can perform.If I were a GM, I take the more sure thing for roughly the same coin (or a little more if I am shown that)

 

[el-gato-grande]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

 

[-OZ-]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

If a team trades for Turner as a starting RB, he won't be returning kickoffs too, so not sure how that's relevant. Unless you're saying that his downside is RBBC guy + kick returner.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be :X while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

Maybe I am way off here but why wouldn't he be cheaper than the 12th pick? Can someone tell me what the average dollar for the 12th pick has been when it is a RB? You must include the signing bonus' as well. What would you expect Turner to get in terms of a contract?

Last year's twelfth pick was Haloti Ngata, who got a five-year contract worth "up to" $14M.Turner will get at least $5M a year.Veteran free agents always make way more than rookies of similar skill.

 

[fruity pebbles]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be :X while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

Maybe I am way off here but why wouldn't he be cheaper than the 12th pick? Can someone tell me what the average dollar for the 12th pick has been when it is a RB? You must include the signing bonus' as well. What would you expect Turner to get in terms of a contract?

Last year's twelfth pick was Haloti Ngata, who got a five-year contract worth "up to" $14M.Turner will get at least $5M a year.Veteran free agents always make way more than rookies of similar skill.

A lot depends on position as well. Cutler taken one pick before got a 6 year 48 million dollar contract.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Recently, Cadillac Williams picked 5th got a five year 31 million dollar contract. Maroney picked 21st got a 5 year 9 million dollar contract. Deangelo Williams picked 27th got a 5 year 15 million dollar contract. Maroney's contract must have had more up front money. If Lynch goes in the 12th-16th area, I could see him getting a 5 year deal worth between 3-4 million per year. Probably not too far off what Turner would be asking for.

 

[mozzy84]

Recently, Cadillac Williams picked 5th got a five year 31 million dollar contract. Maroney picked 21st got a 5 year 9 million dollar contract. Deangelo Williams picked 27th got a 5 year 15 million dollar contract. Maroney's contract must have had more up front money. If Lynch goes in the 12th-16th area, I could see him getting a 5 year deal worth between 3-4 million per year. Probably not too far off what Turner would be asking for.

totally agree, everyone saying he'll get 5-6 mill a year is overblowing it imo. He will get a more than say chester taylor, but not much more, especially if he agrees this year and not next.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

Maybe I am way off here but why wouldn't he be cheaper than the 12th pick? Can someone tell me what the average dollar for the 12th pick has been when it is a RB? You must include the signing bonus' as well. What would you expect Turner to get in terms of a contract?

Last year's twelfth pick was Haloti Ngata, who got a five-year contract worth "up to" $14M.Turner will get at least $5M a year.

Veteran free agents always make way more than rookies of similar skill.

A lot depends on position as well. Cutler taken one pick before got a 6 year 48 million dollar contract.

Cutler's deal is hard to put a number on. It's worth "up to" $48 million, but 45 percent of the max value is in performance incentives (including a bonus for each Super Bowl he wins, and each year he finishes in the top five in passer rating). PFT has criticized the deal as being full of fluff, saying that the maximum value is really $38M, and Jason Cole called it the second-worst deal of all the rookies, likely to pay Cutler $28.8M over six years -- and that's if he is kept for the sixth year to receive the non-guaranteed $12M roster bonus in 2011.Your point that position matters is correct, though. Quarterbacks generally get more than non-quarterbacks.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Recently, Cadillac Williams picked 5th got a five year 31 million dollar contract. Maroney picked 21st got a 5 year 9 million dollar contract. Deangelo Williams picked 27th got a 5 year 15 million dollar contract. Maroney's contract must have had more up front money. If Lynch goes in the 12th-16th area, I could see him getting a 5 year deal worth between 3-4 million per year. Probably not too far off what Turner would be asking for.

totally agree, everyone saying he'll get 5-6 mill a year is overblowing it imo. He will get a more than say chester taylor, but not much more, especially if he agrees this year and not next.

Considering a team is going to have to part with a high draft pick to get him, I could see a 4-5 million a year contract with a good signing bonus. If Lynch is picked 12th by Buffalo, I think he'll command around 4 million a year. Pretty close IMO.

 

[Traders2001]

Recently, Cadillac Williams picked 5th got a five year 31 million dollar contract. Maroney picked 21st got a 5 year 9 million dollar contract. Deangelo Williams picked 27th got a 5 year 15 million dollar contract. Maroney's contract must have had more up front money. If Lynch goes in the 12th-16th area, I could see him getting a 5 year deal worth between 3-4 million per year. Probably not too far off what Turner would be asking for.

totally agree, everyone saying he'll get 5-6 mill a year is overblowing it imo. He will get a more than say chester taylor, but not much more, especially if he agrees this year and not next.

Considering a team is going to have to part with a high draft pick to get him, I could see a 4-5 million a year contract with a good signing bonus. If Lynch is picked 12th by Buffalo, I think he'll command around 4 million a year. Pretty close IMO.

ANd i would give this money to Turner way before i would give it to Lynch a second or third round talent who will be picked in the first because the lack of decent RB at this draft .

 

[el-gato-grande]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

I think Jones is one of the most underrated backs in the league, but I agree that he has plateaued and MT has much more upside. McGahee is a MESS. Bad attitude, bad knees, and he has never averaged over 4.0 YPC in his NFL career. He might be among the most overrated backs in the league.

 

[Obie Wan]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

I think Jones is one of the most underrated backs in the league, but I agree that he has plateaued and MT has much more upside. McGahee is a MESS. Bad attitude, bad knees, and he has never averaged over 4.0 YPC in his NFL career. He might be among the most overrated backs in the league.

NO THAT WOULD BE TURNER :X

 

[Traders2001]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

I think Jones is one of the most underrated backs in the league, but I agree that he has plateaued and MT has much more upside. McGahee is a MESS. Bad attitude, bad knees, and he has never averaged over 4.0 YPC in his NFL career. He might be among the most overrated backs in the league.

NO THAT WOULD BE TURNER

When you see what he does this season ( If he is traded ) he is far away from being overrated , easy top 5 anywhere he lands as a starter ( Easy , before Addai , Gore etc ) LT , LJ , Jackson and then Turner .

 

[Despyzer]

I think Jones is one of the most underrated backs in the league, but I agree that he has plateaued and MT has much more upside. McGahee is a MESS. Bad attitude, bad knees, and he has never averaged over 4.0 YPC in his NFL career. He might be among the most overrated backs in the league.

NO THAT WOULD BE TURNER

Wow... well done. I particularly liked the way you backed up your opinion with a well-thought-out analysis.

 

[Yitbos69]

I think Jones is one of the most underrated backs in the league, but I agree that he has plateaued and MT has much more upside. McGahee is a MESS. Bad attitude, bad knees, and he has never averaged over 4.0 YPC in his NFL career. He might be among the most overrated backs in the league.

NO THAT WOULD BE TURNER

Wow... well done. I particularly liked the way you backed up your opinion with a well-thought-out analysis.

In his defence there really is a very small sample size to judge how good Michael Turner will be. I think like most that he should be very productive as a starter given what he has done in his limited role.Fantasy wise I don't think there is a more overrated player period. But I would still love to have him in every one of my leagues just not at his current price tag.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

When you see what he does this season ( If he is traded ) he is far away from being overrated , easy top 5 anywhere he lands as a starter ( Easy , before Addai , Gore etc ) LT , LJ , Jackson and then Turner .

This is exactly why people are starting to say that Turner is overrated. He's had double-digits carries in 6 games....in his career. I like the guy and think he'll be successful if given the opportunity to start - but to he's "easy top-5 anywhere he lands as a starter" is a bit extreme.

 

[kevinray]

When you see what he does this season ( If he is traded ) he is far away from being overrated , easy top 5 anywhere he lands as a starter ( Easy , before Addai , Gore etc ) LT , LJ , Jackson and then Turner .

This is exactly why people are starting to say that Turner is overrated. He's had double-digits carries in 6 games....in his career. I like the guy and think he'll be successful if given the opportunity to start - but to he's "easy top-5 anywhere he lands as a starter" is a bit extreme.

He's over rated, but the belief that hes top five is about as large as those who think he's below RB20. There are always people that greatly over value and under vaule players. The general ratings have Turner at a risk reward avg. between 10-15.

 

[-OZ-]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

I forgot about Rosenhaus, or overlooked that.Yeah, McGahee's a mess, and I suppose Baltimore was one of the very few teams that can deal with him.

I have high hopes for Turner, but I'm not putting him as a higher value than either of these. But I might be overvaluing experience and undervaluing fresher legs.

 

[nygiants56]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

he didn't say that word for word, what he did say, was that the unknown element of drafting a RB vs. signing someone who is widely regards as the best backup RB in the NFL, has a few teams seriously considering MT as an option.he mentioned that a number of teams are looking at things from that angle. the money between the 12th pick and signing MT would be fairly close , I would think , no? I'm not up to par on what the average pay is for the #12 pick in recent drafts, but I'd think it would be close to what they'd pay MT, right?

I wonder if anyone has a chart on this that can show the avg salary for the #12 pick over the past,say, 3-4 years..

Clayton was making the point that if all things were equal , and a team would have to pay comparable $$ to Lynch as they would to sign and/or trade for MT, that they'd seriously consider acquiring MT as opposed to drafting an unproven rookie RB. After all, Lynch is the considered the second best RB in a RB-weak draft, so , how valuable is he, really?. thats the $64 questions the Bills,Titans, and others are trying to figure out.

as a Turner owner, I don't care where/when Lynch gets drafted, as long as MT gets traded somewhere..!



and I'm not supporting Clayton's views, just relaying his information that I heard from him last week..hope it was useful.

 

[Rev]

When you see what he does this season ( If he is traded ) he is far away from being overrated , easy top 5 anywhere he lands as a starter ( Easy , before Addai , Gore etc ) LT , LJ , Jackson and then Turner .

This is exactly why people are starting to say that Turner is overrated. He's had double-digits carries in 6 games....in his career. I like the guy and think he'll be successful if given the opportunity to start - but to he's "easy top-5 anywhere he lands as a starter" is a bit extreme.

Agree with this second post. The guy has had single digit total receptions in his career. He's spelled the best back in football on a very good offensive football team. He does not have the extra gear to outrun the fastest DBs. And he is quite inexperienced. Turner certainly could be top 5, but I currently see him as a great talent who has shown some very nice flashes. This puts him in a league of players like has Dominic Rhodes, Chester Taylor, and even Kevan Barlow... and none of them are anywhere near top 5 after they got their chance to start.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

He does not have the extra gear to outrun the fastest DBs.

Who does?Turner's speed is similar to Tomlinson's. Neither will pull away from Pacman, but neither will be run down quickly by him, either. (Tomlinson and Turner ran almost identical 40 times at the combine -- 4.41 and 4.42 -- and Turner has shown his breakaway speed not only as a running back [see the Pacman play as well as the run vs. the Colts] but also as one of the better kickoff returners in the league.)If I were going to find a weakness in Turner's game, speed would be probably next-to-last on the list, behind power.His legitimate weaknesses are that he's not much of a receiver, and he's not very shifty or elusive.His strengths are his power, speed, balance, and vision.

 

[el-gato-grande]

He does not have the extra gear to outrun the fastest DBs.

Who does?Turner's speed is similar to Tomlinson's. Neither will pull away from Pacman, but neither will be run down quickly by him, either. (Tomlinson and Turner ran almost identical 40 times at the combine -- 4.41 and 4.42 -- and Turner has shown his breakaway speed not only as a running back [see the Pacman play as well as the run vs. the Colts] but also as one of the better kickoff returners in the league.)If I were going to find a weakness in Turner's game, speed would be probably next-to-last on the list, behind power.His legitimate weaknesses are that he's not much of a receiver, and he's not very shifty or elusive.His strengths are his power, speed, balance, and vision.

Nice scouting on Turner. I will say this. I've been beating the drum on Turner for a long time. I was wrong about him taking more of LT's load last year. But, I have never been more sure about a player in my life. I have won fantasy championships by riding Davis, Holmes, and LJ in their primes. And I will win a couple of more with this guy in both my keeper and dynasty leagues if he is put in a situation where he is the lead back. TEN, BUF, or the GBP would do nicely thanks.

 

[Yitbos69]

He does not have the extra gear to outrun the fastest DBs.

Who does?Turner's speed is similar to Tomlinson's. Neither will pull away from Pacman, but neither will be run down quickly by him, either. (Tomlinson and Turner ran almost identical 40 times at the combine -- 4.41 and 4.42 -- and Turner has shown his breakaway speed not only as a running back [see the Pacman play as well as the run vs. the Colts] but also as one of the better kickoff returners in the league.)If I were going to find a weakness in Turner's game, speed would be probably next-to-last on the list, behind power.His legitimate weaknesses are that he's not much of a receiver, and he's not very shifty or elusive.His strengths are his power, speed, balance, and vision.

Turner really has not had much opportunity to catch the ball. But out of 9 career targets he has 7 receptions.I think this sample size is to small to draw too many conclusions.

 

[perry147]

He does not have the extra gear to outrun the fastest DBs.

Who does?Turner's speed is similar to Tomlinson's. Neither will pull away from Pacman, but neither will be run down quickly by him, either. (Tomlinson and Turner ran almost identical 40 times at the combine -- 4.41 and 4.42 -- and Turner has shown his breakaway speed not only as a running back [see the Pacman play as well as the run vs. the Colts] but also as one of the better kickoff returners in the league.)If I were going to find a weakness in Turner's game, speed would be probably next-to-last on the list, behind power.His legitimate weaknesses are that he's not much of a receiver, and he's not very shifty or elusive.His strengths are his power, speed, balance, and vision.

Turner really has not had much opportunity to catch the ball. But out of 9 career targets he has 7 receptions.I think this sample size is to small to draw too many conclusions.

The sample size is just too small for anything but an educated guess BUT he does return kicks which takes a lot of hand eye coordination. Although I am sure there might be someone in the history of the NFL who was a KR but had bad hands - I think it would be safe to say the coaches trust his hands.

 

[DanFouts]

He does not have the extra gear to outrun the fastest DBs.

Who does?Turner's speed is similar to Tomlinson's. Neither will pull away from Pacman, but neither will be run down quickly by him, either. (Tomlinson and Turner ran almost identical 40 times at the combine -- 4.41 and 4.42 -- and Turner has shown his breakaway speed not only as a running back [see the Pacman play as well as the run vs. the Colts] but also as one of the better kickoff returners in the league.)

If I were going to find a weakness in Turner's game, speed would be probably next-to-last on the list, behind power.

His legitimate weaknesses are that he's not much of a receiver, and he's not very shifty or elusive.

His strengths are his power, speed, balance, and vision.

To say that Turner has no speed is ridiculous (he is the Burner)......when he breaks through the line, he is ususally breaking off tackles (that may make him look slower at first), but when he clears through the linebacker, he ALWAYS hits that second gear. Sure, Pacman can run him down, but those long runs are sweet............

Believe me, every Charger fan will be sad to see him leave......

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Turner really has not had much opportunity to catch the ball. But out of 9 career targets he has 7 receptions.

But they've all been dump-offs with his back to the defense.His hands are fine, but he is not going to run a real pattern up the seam or up the sideline the way Tomlinson can, and (based on what I've seen in practice) he is stiff in his cuts.

 

[Routilla]

Everytime I see this thread near the top I think he has been traded. Crap. 17 pages and still no trade. I guess if he's going to be traded it will be before the draft or on draft day, right? I hope he does go to either TEN or GB. It will add another viable starter to the RB pool.

 

[Couch Potato]

Everytime I see this thread near the top I think he has been traded. Crap. 17 pages and still no trade. I guess if he's going to be traded it will be before the draft or on draft day, right? I hope he does go to either TEN or GB. It will add another viable starter to the RB pool.

Me too.800+ posts fer nuthin'.

EDIT to add: I just got a bunch of you to look again, didn't I. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Liquid Tension]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

Maybe I am way off here but why wouldn't he be cheaper than the 12th pick? Can someone tell me what the average dollar for the 12th pick has been when it is a RB? You must include the signing bonus' as well. What would you expect Turner to get in terms of a contract?

Last year's twelfth pick was Haloti Ngata, who got a five-year contract worth "up to" $14M.Turner will get at least $5M a year.Veteran free agents always make way more than rookies of similar skill.

OK, that is important info, thanks. Did that include the signing bonus? I know that Lamont got 5 mil but others got about 3 mil such as Chester. RB's might get more than DT's as well. For example if a QB were taken 12th he would get more money than NGata did.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That means Clayton thinks it is cheaper to sign Turner then a mid 1st. Not a chance. He will probably demand more then what Buffalo would pay for Lynch at 12. And Lynch probably won't go that high either.

I agree.

Clayton's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes the last couple of years. I used to think he was but either his sources these days are worse than they used to be or he's getting sloppy. A lot of the stuff I've heard from him the last couple of years have proven to be while contrary info from other sources turned out to be correct. I no longer rely on his info.

Clayton's lost cred, but I sincerely doubt he said that Turner would be cheaper than the #12 pick.

Maybe I am way off here but why wouldn't he be cheaper than the 12th pick? Can someone tell me what the average dollar for the 12th pick has been when it is a RB? You must include the signing bonus' as well. What would you expect Turner to get in terms of a contract?

Last year's twelfth pick was Haloti Ngata, who got a five-year contract worth "up to" $14M.Turner will get at least $5M a year.

Veteran free agents always make way more than rookies of similar skill.

OK, that is important info, thanks. Did that include the signing bonus? I know that Lamont got 5 mil but others got about 3 mil such as Chester. RB's might get more than DT's as well. For example if a QB were taken 12th he would get more money than NGata did.

Of course.

 

[zamboni]

Everytime I see this thread near the top I think he has been traded.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

 

[The Shizzle]

What are the odds this thread hits 1000 posts before any relevant news on Turner happens?

(#843? now)

 

[Yitbos69]

Turner really has not had much opportunity to catch the ball. But out of 9 career targets he has 7 receptions.

But they've all been dump-offs with his back to the defense.His hands are fine, but he is not going to run a real pattern up the seam or up the sideline the way Tomlinson can, and (based on what I've seen in practice) he is stiff in his cuts.

Thats good to know. I was wondering about his hands. I thought they had to be pretty good for him to be as good a returner as he is.So he will be a safety valve/screen pass guy but not a guy who runs clean routs. IIRC most of SJAX 90 receptions last year were of the dump off/screen pass variety. Not saying Turner will get 90 catches....just that those kind of plays can add up.

 

[Yitbos69]

What are the odds this thread hits 1000 posts before any relevant news on Turner happens?(#843? now)

I think you would have to say that the news posted about his trips to Tenn and the Bills was relevant. But not much before or after that news.

 

[D.O.M.]

I predict we'll be at 1000+ posts by Monday, April 23rd

 

[Liquid Tension]

Recently, Cadillac Williams picked 5th got a five year 31 million dollar contract. Maroney picked 21st got a 5 year 9 million dollar contract. Deangelo Williams picked 27th got a 5 year 15 million dollar contract. Maroney's contract must have had more up front money. If Lynch goes in the 12th-16th area, I could see him getting a 5 year deal worth between 3-4 million per year. Probably not too far off what Turner would be asking for.

totally agree, everyone saying he'll get 5-6 mill a year is overblowing it imo. He will get a more than say chester taylor, but not much more, especially if he agrees this year and not next.

Considering a team is going to have to part with a high draft pick to get him, I could see a 4-5 million a year contract with a good signing bonus. If Lynch is picked 12th by Buffalo, I think he'll command around 4 million a year. Pretty close IMO.

ANd i would give this money to Turner way before i would give it to Lynch a second or third round talent who will be picked in the first because the lack of decent RB at this draft .

This is the bottom line to me. I would rather pay "$500,000 to a mil" a year more and get Turner than Lynch

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't get the Lynch vs. Turner discussion.

Turner is a proven commodity against NFL level competition and any player in college is a question mark - end of story. The only open issue with Turner is his ability to carry 20-25 times per game because he has been in a limited role, but considering his physical size and strength, is that really a concern? I'd say not.

The discussion is deeper than Turner vs. Lynch, it's "proven" (as much as Turner can be considered that) at a higher salary vs. potential. What I find surprising is that Turner will probably command a higher value in trade than Thomas Jones or McGahee. As much as I like Turner, I just don't see that.

Thomas Jones is a nice back, but he doesn't offer anything more than high quality competence - he doesn't have any outstanding area of his game, he's just solid across the board. McGahee has two surgically repaired ACLs, and he's a Rosenhaus guy. Turner has no mileage, he's a game breaker, and he's a team player. He's also one of the best kickoff return men in the league. I definitely see him fetching more in a trade than either of those backs.

I think Jones is one of the most underrated backs in the league, but I agree that he has plateaued and MT has much more upside. McGahee is a MESS. Bad attitude, bad knees, and he has never averaged over 4.0 YPC in his NFL career. He might be among the most overrated backs in the league.

I am not sure why TJ is underrated. The guys is a below average starting NFL running back and I can't see how any one could argue otherwise. He is similar to Ruben Droughns in many ways and most people laugh at Ruben droughns. The Giants did much better than the Jets in getting Droughns for less dollars and less to give up in getting him.

 

[zamboni]

I predict we'll be at 1000+ posts by Monday, April 23rd

One more news blurb today, and we be there by the end of the day.

 

[The Shizzle]

My vote is by Wednesday April 18 at 9:47AM.