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*** OFFICIAL New Orleans Saints Thread *** (1 Viewer)

Just thinking that Payton has hired the same essential DC twice. Williams and Ryan are pretty similar. Highly aggresive, blitzy Ds that periodically get burned really bad.

 
Ryan is pretty awful. I think there is some decent, not great talent out there but they just look lost. They don't know how to tackle and seem to give up as the game goes on. Why did they bring Dennis Allen in if not to prepare for an eventual Ryan firing?

Of course, the absolute disaster that is Brandon Browner has cost us a few games by himself this year, so there's that.

 
against the Titans, there was ZERO pressure on Mariota. it's troubling that Cam can disappear sometimes. I think we would have had a lot more pressure (i.e. some) if Kikaha had been playing...crazy to say that we're missing the impact of a rookie when it comes to pass rush.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
OK THIS TRACK MEET TODAY HAS TO RESULT IN RYAN GETTING FIRED.
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If not, it proves the franchise has no accountability from the top down.

Payton/Brees SB win was eons ago, it feels like. Not blaming Brees, but the Saints, as constituted, need to be blown up and started over.

 
Even worse than our recent historically worst defense. I'm fine with letting Payton go - it's entirely unacceptable to be 10 years into his coaching tenure and setting records for bad defense. He's a coordinator that struck gold with a HOF quarterback and Gregggg blitzing like crazy.

 
No down side. By rights, Ryan should have been simplifying the D in the coming weeks anyway, and that's what the new guy will do.

 
Ryan had to go, but I don't think it's his fault that this team sucks so badly. A couple of good players here and there, but clearly one of the least talented teams in the league.

 
dgreen said:
Any talk in NO this morning about Brees ignoring Payton and going for it on 4th down?
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Not much ... just one thread about it on the main Saints fan message board. A lot people chalking it up to "things HOF QBs do sometimes".

 
i'm not sure there is any reason to believe that Brees won't be back. i don't know that he'll be as happy with another coach - learning a new system after so many years is no fun - but i really think Payton ought to go. i don't care what the compensation is for the guy but i don't care. we just need a change, pure and simple/

Recapping the Season for me...

Offense - The offense was solid, if unspectacular. Brees has done a lot with very little really. Snead was another diamond in the rough. I think he's another Lance Moore type, honestly, in that he's not a true #2 and along those line Cooks is really a #2. Watson played fantastic but it would be unrealistic to expect another year of production like that from him. Ingram looked good getting carries most of the time. Khiry was mostly invisible and Spiller was a profound disappointment. Hightower could and should be kept if at all possible.

Defense - had its moments here and there but mostly plain awful. Losing Junior hurt in that it meant Kika had too little time to prepare. It's a little too convenient, I think, to blame Browner as being totally inept. He's at his best when he's at the line, jamming the WR, disrupting the timing/route, feeding him into a safety. That's how he was so effective in Seattle but struggled since. Lewis is a warrior but he's on the downside of his career. Breaux is improving very week and I like his moxie. Vaccaro had a better year than last year and Byrd has continued as a FA bust. he played fantastic in Buffalo for years so I tend to think it's about coaching, which is why he could stink so badly with us. Which brings me to my last point...

Coaching - It's been awful. Ryan was terrible for years. Payton should have stuck with HC duties and handed the playcalling over to someone else. The only good thing he has shown is a steadying hand on another otherwise rocky season. He needs to go for this team to get any better and grow. We're in this awful rut as it is.

 
ccanderson said:
ccanderson said:
psychobillies said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
SiriusXM NFL Radio ‏@SiriusXMNFL 7h7 hours ago

.@RichGannon12 on NFC South: I have the #Saints winning the division at 10-6 followed by the Falcons (9-7), Panthers (6-10), & Bucs (5-11).
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I'll take it. Hell, just beat the Falcons twice and I'll be happy.
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Ha... 2-14 with two wins against the Falcons is a good year :)
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:thumbup:
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Came in to post this. :thumbup:

Falcons suck.

 
saintfool said:
i'm not sure there is any reason to believe that Brees won't be back. i don't know that he'll be as happy with another coach - learning a new system after so many years is no fun - but i really think Payton ought to go. i don't care what the compensation is for the guy but i don't care. we just need a change, pure and simple/

Recapping the Season for me...

Offense - The offense was solid, if unspectacular. Brees has done a lot with very little really. Snead was another diamond in the rough. I think he's another Lance Moore type, honestly, in that he's not a true #2 and along those line Cooks is really a #2. Watson played fantastic but it would be unrealistic to expect another year of production like that from him. Ingram looked good getting carries most of the time. Khiry was mostly invisible and Spiller was a profound disappointment. Hightower could and should be kept if at all possible.

Defense - had its moments here and there but mostly plain awful. Losing Junior hurt in that it meant Kika had too little time to prepare. It's a little too convenient, I think, to blame Browner as being totally inept. He's at his best when he's at the line, jamming the WR, disrupting the timing/route, feeding him into a safety. That's how he was so effective in Seattle but struggled since. Lewis is a warrior but he's on the downside of his career. Breaux is improving very week and I like his moxie. Vaccaro had a better year than last year and Byrd has continued as a FA bust. he played fantastic in Buffalo for years so I tend to think it's about coaching, which is why he could stink so badly with us. Which brings me to my last point...

Coaching - It's been awful. Ryan was terrible for years. Payton should have stuck with HC duties and handed the playcalling over to someone else. The only good thing he has shown is a steadying hand on another otherwise rocky season. He needs to go for this team to get any better and grow. We're in this awful rut as it is.
Click to expand...
I disagree about Payton. Good teams stick with good coaches even through the down years. This team sucked because it had very little talent. 2015 draft looks good, but if any changes need to be made, it's in the scouting department.

I disagree about Browner too. One of the all time worst. He holds and interferes on every play, and he does it because he's slow and he sucks. He cost us games by himself at times this year.

 
psychobillies said:
saintfool said:
i'm not sure there is any reason to believe that Brees won't be back. i don't know that he'll be as happy with another coach - learning a new system after so many years is no fun - but i really think Payton ought to go. i don't care what the compensation is for the guy but i don't care. we just need a change, pure and simple/

Recapping the Season for me...

Offense - The offense was solid, if unspectacular. Brees has done a lot with very little really. Snead was another diamond in the rough. I think he's another Lance Moore type, honestly, in that he's not a true #2 and along those line Cooks is really a #2. Watson played fantastic but it would be unrealistic to expect another year of production like that from him. Ingram looked good getting carries most of the time. Khiry was mostly invisible and Spiller was a profound disappointment. Hightower could and should be kept if at all possible.

Defense - had its moments here and there but mostly plain awful. Losing Junior hurt in that it meant Kika had too little time to prepare. It's a little too convenient, I think, to blame Browner as being totally inept. He's at his best when he's at the line, jamming the WR, disrupting the timing/route, feeding him into a safety. That's how he was so effective in Seattle but struggled since. Lewis is a warrior but he's on the downside of his career. Breaux is improving very week and I like his moxie. Vaccaro had a better year than last year and Byrd has continued as a FA bust. he played fantastic in Buffalo for years so I tend to think it's about coaching, which is why he could stink so badly with us. Which brings me to my last point...

Coaching - It's been awful. Ryan was terrible for years. Payton should have stuck with HC duties and handed the playcalling over to someone else. The only good thing he has shown is a steadying hand on another otherwise rocky season. He needs to go for this team to get any better and grow. We're in this awful rut as it is.
Click to expand...
I disagree about Payton. Good teams stick with good coaches even through the down years. This team sucked because it had very little talent. 2015 draft looks good, but if any changes need to be made, it's in the scouting department.

I disagree about Browner too. One of the all time worst. He holds and interferes on every play, and he does it because he's slow and he sucks. He cost us games by himself at times this year.
Click to expand...
again, i'm not in favor of keeping Browner. he doesn't fit our system, just like he didn't fit NE's but he was effective in Seattle opposite Sherman. how? they had a scheme that was supported by a ferocious pass rush mixed with terrific safeties. we just don't have that. we'd save a million or so if we cut him before next year and we'll need every penny we can find.

As for Payton, he's been a mess. too many blow out losses and games we looked ill-prepared for. last two years, we have started miserably too (2-3 and 1-4 respectively). we were awful with penalties this year. he's been a terrible playcaller in recent years, i think, and someone has to accept responsibilty for the atrocious defense efforts. in the most basic sense, he has failed this team.

 
Really wonder about all the games Payton's agent played with the press this year. What was the end game?

 
Really didn't think he could stay after this season. I'm not sure this is really good for N'awlins at this point. There were plenty of candidates to go around. Rumor was a 2nd round pick was what they wanted.

So much distrust from each side towards the other, surprised this happened. Saints fans, are you happy?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Really didn't think he could stay after this season. I'm not sure this is really good for N'awlins at this point. There were plenty of candidates to go around. Rumor was a 2nd round pick was what they wanted.
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Almost any rumor anyone ever heard about Sean Payton over the last few months was a BS link from either Payton's agent or the team. Someone was trolling the press hard most of the season.

Not for no reason, though. I guess someone thought some vague change was coming, and they wanted to be out in front of it. But when the music stopped, the best spot for Payton and the team was for him for stay in N.O.

I'm fine with it, myself. The Saints' problems are about 80% lack of personnel and 18% defensive coaching. Payton's side of the ball is pretty consistent. There are some corollary issues that roll up to Payton (e.g. underperforming buddies on the defensive staff he can't seem to part with), but I think Payton is a strong net plus for the organization.

 
Doug B said:
Really wonder about all the games Payton's agent played with the press this year. What was the end game?
Click to expand...
Looking for an extension maybe.

I think the Benson situation is not good also. All sorts of leaks, many false, for who knows what motive. BS coming and going here, and it's embarrassing to watch guys like Henderson and Mackel spew their "insider" knowledge which in the end if just them putting out there what someone wants them to put out.

I never thought Payton was leaving, I guess most locally didn't believe it, but there are all sorts of palace games being played right now.

 
Doug B said:
Really wonder about all the games Payton's agent played with the press this year. What was the end game?
Click to expand...
Did not strike me as games. Payton referenced compensation a few times in that press conference today and my first thought was that he was talking about compensation to the Saints for his services but I later realized that may have been part of what he meant but he was mainly talking about compensation to him, not for him.

So not a game by him or his agent, they got word out he was available but no one made an offer good enough for the Saints and good enough for Payton. So he's back, for another year at least.

 
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imjackdupp said:
whos-next-on-the-saints-chopping-block
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Meh - Spiller, Byrd and Colston.

Spiller he puts at 10% likely to be cut, that I see as being much a higher likelihood.

Byrd - already resigned.

Coltson - come on, they love him, the fans love him, he doesn't fit in with any other team, and despite his drops problem I think he stays. I can't imagine there's any price they couldn't have him at. - eta - nm they cut him all right, but then the Saints have been very active in FA.

As for Ellerbe, well I guess a team as LB poor as the Saints can't be beggars but that guy has really disappointed in 2 towns now. He did make some nice plays last year but he was not an impact player. The Saints cut Humber and Hawthorne, no telling how this LB crew looks next year. Anthony and Kikaha are the core to build around.

 
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Agree on Spiller. Would love to see Colston play one more year and hang it up as a Saint but I could understand the move if they made it.

Its gonna be an interesting couple of months to say the least.

 
Anyone have any objective commentary on the moves on the d-line and at LB so far?

How about prospects for Allen as DC?

Also again I preach, what the hell are they going to do at WR?

 
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Wait, who, what?


 
Saints signed QB Griffin Neal to a three-year contract.
Neal set school records in passing yards (5,614) and touchdown passes (47) as a three-year starter at Concordia from 2012-14. He spent last season playing in the German Football League, but he caught the eye of the Saints when he participated in Tulane's Pro Day last month. New Orleans scheduled him for a workout on Friday, and he was signed shortly after. Neal should fill the role of camp arm and practice-squad body as he develops. Apr 9 - 1:54 PM

Source: Terry Horan on Twitter
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http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11360/griffin-neal





Uh so they have McCown and their former 3rd round pick Grayson.
 

A 3 year project here?

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Whats wrong at wr? Cooks snead and coleman are a decent top3.. With fleener as well
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I hope I'm wrong about what's wrong.

Cooks, I love. I am really looking forward to Fleener.

But Snead while really impressive last year at times can go silent for long stretches and Coleman to me was a disappointment, he won't ever be Colston. I just think the Saints have needed a dominating, big time WR for some time.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Anyone have any objective commentary on the moves on the d-line and at LB so far?

How about prospects for Allen as DC?

Also again I preach, what the hell are they going to do at WR?
Click to expand...
i don't know what to make of the defense right now. it seems like we're back to a 4-3, which suits us better, but the personnel is always the issue. i liked Anthony at MLB and feel like he's going to be wasted at SLB. he could hold down the middle with more time. Lauranitis is Vilma 2.0, i suppose, but hopefully has more left in the tank. Ellerbe didn't play badly but didn't play enough. i like the DT's - finally! - and wonder about some about the DE opposite jordan. i think Haka is too light to stand up to the every down DE spot. richardson is JAG. maybe we go after a real DE in R1 finally?

here's the key to this defense: pressure. Allen is another aggro-Gregg Williams type. in order to pull it off, you need consistent pressure every single down. let your front 4 do that and QBs make bad throws. let your LBs stuff the run. less time for your CBs to cover and more opps for S's to make plays (turnovers, breakups, or just double-ups). if we can't do that then we're doomed like the defense was under Spags (4-3) and Ryan (3-4).

we'll draft another WR. bank on it. maybe R2 but we're short on talent. Snead played really well but he's not going to force a match up. he's clutch like Lance Moore was, i think, and will be productive still. that said, Drew can make anyone look good. get a legit WR to groom.

 
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