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*** OFFICIAL NFC CHAMPIONSHIP : LA Rams vs NO Saints *** (1 Viewer)

Hov34 said:
Missed calls suck don't they?

Signed,

Brett Favre.
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Yeah, I understand. It's fun to see a hated team and an arrogant coach get jobbed. Get what's coming to them. Wouldn't expect less from Vikings, Falcons, Eagles, Panthers fans, etc. You guys are the faithful opposition. And from the Saints' perspective, heavy is the head that wears the crown (or, is the #1 seed with a jerk coach). OK.

But even among those who love seeing the Saints lose ... doesn't anyone from that group sees that there is a competitive integrity issue with non-calls like that? Forget who should've won or lost. Forget Payton's play-calling. Forget previous bad calls during the game. Focus in on that one call, in the moment, in a vacuum.

Either that defensive tactic is legal or it's illegal. Though it's called a "judgement call", that's not supposed to mean an "if I feel like it" call. It's supposed to mean that a given rule won't always be obvious to enforce ... there will be a spectrum of outcomes and there will be indistinct areas therein. However -- calls on the "obvious" edge of the spectrum have to be made, every time. You can't fall back on "judgement call" in a case like that one. That looks horrible, and the what-ifs write themselves -- hey that ref took cash from a gambler, but who'll ever know? It was just a "judgement call", after all.

Isn't the integrity of the game above Sean Payton getting his, or Vikings fans having schadenfreude for 2009?

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
That was not a missed call. That was 2 calls on one play which the ref refused to make. He didn’t miss anything.
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The bolded is crucial. It wasn't a 50-50 call that was difficult to make out -- it was in space, out loud, in living color. The official could never offer a convincing public defense of his decision not to throw a flag there. To his benefit, the NFL's Don Denkinger will never have to do that.

 
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Doug B said:
Yeah, I understand. It's fun to see a hated team and an arrogant coach get jobbed. Get what's coming to them. Wouldn't expect less from Vikings, Falcons, Eagles, Panthers fans, etc. You guys are the faithful opposition. And from the Saints' perspective, heavy is the head that wears the crown (or, is the #1 seed with a jerk coach). OK.
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I am a Panthers fan, and I was rooting for the Rams, and I thought that no-call downright sucked. There were some missed calls for both teams during the game, but that was a blatant defensive pass interference.  Not only did he hit him early, but it was helmet to helmet. It wasn't like it happened in a crowd and was hard to see. It was in the open. It was an awful no-call, and a game changer. The Saints should have had a first down around the 5 yard line.

 
simey said:
I am a Panthers fan, and I was rooting for the Rams, and I thought that no-call downright sucked. There were some missed calls for both teams during the game, but that was a blatant defensive pass interference.  Not only did he hit him early, but it was helmet to helmet. It wasn't like it happened in a crowd and was hard to see. It was in the open. It was an awful no-call, and a game changer. The Saints should have had a first down around the 5 yard line.
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What's amazing is that NONE of the refs threw a flag. That was obvious from every angle.

 
Doug B said:
Yeah, I understand. It's fun to see a hated team and an arrogant coach get jobbed. Get what's coming to them. Wouldn't expect less from Vikings, Falcons, Eagles, Panthers fans, etc. You guys are the faithful opposition. And from the Saints' perspective, heavy is the head that wears the crown (or, is the #1 seed with a jerk coach). OK.

But even among those who love seeing the Saints lose ... doesn't anyone from that group sees that there is a competitive integrity issue with non-calls like that? Forget who should've won or lost. Forget Payton's play-calling. Forget previous bad calls during the game. Focus in on that one call, in the moment, in a vacuum.

Either that defensive tactic is legal or it's illegal. Though it's called a "judgement call", that's not supposed to mean an "if I feel like it" call. It's supposed to mean that a given rule won't always be obvious to enforce ... there will be a spectrum of outcomes and there will be indistinct areas therein. However -- calls on the "obvious" edge of the spectrum have to be made, every time. You can't fall back on "judgement call" in a case like that one. That looks horrible, and the what-ifs write themselves -- hey that ref took cash from a gambler, but who'll ever know? It was just a "judgement call", after all.

Isn't the integrity of the game above Sean Payton getting his, or Vikings fans having schadenfreude for 2009?
Click to expand...
Do you get this worked up every time a team gets the bad end of an obvious call?  Seems pretty convenient to want everyone to band together when it happens to your team for 'integrity'.  Have you never told a fan base to get over it or not to put them self in the position for a call to matter?  If you can honest;y say you haven't you are the first I would know of.  

 
Master of Past and Present said:
Do you get this worked up every time a team gets the bad end of an obvious call?  Seems pretty convenient to want everyone to band together when it happens to your team for 'integrity'.  Have you never told a fan base to get over it or not to put them self in the position for a call to matter?  If you can honest;y say you haven't you are the first I would know of.  
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As I said earlier in this thread ... I’d take the bad-call win and not look back. But why not? Feeling sorry for the losing team and their fans won’t reverse the result, anyway. Just as soon take the W and look ahead.

I don’t make a habit of telling opposing fans to “get over it” in situations like this. Buy that or don’t at your pleasure.

 
Someone needs to kick the Pats ash, thought the Saints could hopefully the Rams have it in them. Don’t feel confident Goff can hang. 

 
Doug B said:
Hov34 said:
Missed calls suck don't they?

Signed,

Brett Favre.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I understand. It's fun to see a hated team and an arrogant coach get jobbed. Get what's coming to them. Wouldn't expect less from Vikings, Falcons, Eagles, Panthers fans, etc. You guys are the faithful opposition. And from the Saints' perspective, heavy is the head that wears the crown (or, is the #1 seed with a jerk coach). OK.

But even among those who love seeing the Saints lose ... doesn't anyone from that group sees that there is a competitive integrity issue with non-calls like that? Forget who should've won or lost. Forget Payton's play-calling. Forget previous bad calls during the game. Focus in on that one call, in the moment, in a vacuum.

Either that defensive tactic is legal or it's illegal. Though it's called a "judgement call", that's not supposed to mean an "if I feel like it" call. It's supposed to mean that a given rule won't always be obvious to enforce ... there will be a spectrum of outcomes and there will be indistinct areas therein. However -- calls on the "obvious" edge of the spectrum have to be made, every time. You can't fall back on "judgement call" in a case like that one. That looks horrible, and the what-ifs write themselves -- hey that ref took cash from a gambler, but who'll ever know? It was just a "judgement call", after all.

Isn't the integrity of the game above Sean Payton getting his, or Vikings fans having schadenfreude for 2009?
Click to expand...


Yes, I did in 2009 (several times).  Where were you then?
 

 
frig this is the only matchup i didn't want.

goff vs mahomes -great
either vs brees -great

agreed that this one is going to be a snoozer.

 
I mean I think the NFL has a huge refereeing issue but it pervades the game. I mean they missed a face mask call 2 minutes earlier that would have changed the game.  Rams get ball 1st and goal from the 1?  

 
I usually don't get too carried away with the refs, but my God, how was that even possible?  Nobody saw that mugging, surprised a cop didn't come on and arrest the guy. That non call cost the Saints the game no doubt about it.

And I hate playing that wimpy sore loser stuff but that was ridiculous.

 
I'm from MN and a Vikings fan. I love this Saints team. Brees is a great QB. I've loved him since he was carving up the Gophers. New Orleans is one of my favorite cities.

But #### Sean Payton. He is an arrogant, classless #####. I will never get tired of watching him lose and then whining about it like a little #####.  I will never forget the Bounty Bowl. Maybe I'm just a bitter little man, but that game was awesome... Go Rams!!!

I do feel for Saints fans, but... you've got a tainted Lomardi in your trophy case, so you'll be all right.

 
Did the refs miss the call?  Absolutely.

Have I texted the phrase "Don't care in the slightest" so often in the past six hours that it has become my autofill default?  Yes I have.

I hear people saying that the Rams will be hated for how they won.  But after a decade of them being ignored.... don't care in the slightest.

 
My wife knows nothing about football, zero.  She gets home from her mom's "what happened in that New Orleans  game?"  She has never talked football, until.......

Whoa~~~

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
That was not a missed call. That was 2 calls on one play which the ref refused to make. He didn’t miss anything.
Click to expand...
This doesn't even include the non PI call on Drew's interception.  Ball was not tipped (hit the arm, not the ball), Rams defender took the WR out and caught the ball.  Just awful.

 
Sand said:
This doesn't even include the non PI call on Drew's interception.  Ball was not tipped (hit the arm, not the ball), Rams defender took the WR out and caught the ball.  Just awful.
Click to expand...
With the way the ball came out of there, there's no way a ref 30 yards downfield is going to say "I can tell that ball was not tipped but was instead the product of an arm getting hit."  That duck should not have been called.

 
Would much rather have seen Brees get a shot to beat Brady. Worry that BB with 2 weeks to prepare and Gurley hurt will make Goff look like the Jeff Fisher version. 

 
Junior McSpiffy said:
With the way the ball came out of there, there's no way a ref 30 yards downfield is going to say "I can tell that ball was not tipped but was instead the product of an arm getting hit."  That duck should not have been called.
Click to expand...
Absolutely should have been called.  The fact that it was not tipped and the WR was simply pushed to the ground makes it even more obvious than the "worst call in NFL playoff history". 

 
I admit that I have not read this thread since the game ended, but wanted to ask a question. Has the egregious lack of PI call totally drowned out the fact that Coach Payton called not one, but two passes, both of which fell incomplete and left the Rams with over a minute of extra time and a time out to march down the field to tie the game in the 4th quarter?

 
Stephen Holloway said:
I admit that I have not read this thread since the game ended, but wanted to ask a question. Has the egregious lack of PI call totally drowned out the fact that Coach Payton called not one, but two passes, both of which fell incomplete and left the Rams with over a minute of extra time and a time out to march down the field to tie the game in the 4th quarter?
Click to expand...
stupid coaching......and yes

 
Herb said:
I'm from MN and a Vikings fan. I love this Saints team. Brees is a great QB. I've loved him since he was carving up the Gophers. New Orleans is one of my favorite cities.

But #### Sean Payton. He is an arrogant, classless #####. I will never get tired of watching him lose and then whining about it like a little #####.  I will never forget the Bounty Bowl. Maybe I'm just a bitter little man, but that game was awesome... Go Rams!!!

I do feel for Saints fans, but... you've got a tainted Lomardi in your trophy case, so you'll be all right.
Click to expand...
Drew brees has helped me win more than a couple titles in my dynasty league over the years.   Love the guy and I love visiting/partying in that city too.

That said I couldn't be happier with the way that game went, from the bone headed play calling that cost them the game, to seeing that piece of crap coach crying and whining at the post game presser.  

 
Sand said:
Absolutely should have been called.  The fact that it was not tipped and the WR was simply pushed to the ground makes it even more obvious than the "worst call in NFL playoff history". 
Click to expand...
Go back and look at that play.  One person has their eyes on the ball and is positioning himself to make a play on it.  One person has no idea where the ball is and runs into the other player without looking back for the ball.  So even if you want to go with "the ref should have known whether a ball coming from 30 yards away was tipped or the arm was hit" (totally unreasonable in my estimation), which player should have been called for PI?

 
First time I have been able to check in here. I'm not reading all the comments. I know what they are. Same thing I stayed up reading and watching Sunday night until about 1AM, because I was so angry and bitter that I couldn't go to sleep. About 75-85% disbelief and 15-25% jubilation that the Saints got their 'karma' for "Insert your personal team vendetta here." I don't get upset about ballgames. I was sad last year on the Minny Miracle, but that was one player missing a play.  This year, it's straight up ANGER.  And I know, I know. Don't give me "score TD instead of FGs" please. We took what a very tough Rams D gave us at the time. No team scores 6 every trip to the red zone. Don't give me "call better plays." Of course, us couch coaches have a better gameplan than the head coach or OC. That's our job. There's always going to be second guessing on play calls that didn't go as planned.  Trust me, my buddies and I were screaming the whole game about "why run there?" and "why throw there?" just like we do every other game, college and pro. ABSOLUTELY NONE of that, however, takes away from the fact that the outcome of the game, in all likelihood, was blatantly and obviously changed but such an egregious inaction. I'm NOT a "blame the officials" guy either and never have been. Up to those final moments, I thought the game was called loosely (letting holdings and inadvertent face masks go FOR BOTH TEAMS) and I was completely fine with that, as it was called (or not called) equally both ways.  And sure, appropriately given that first and goal inside 2 minutes, we could have fumbled. We could have missed the chipshot field goal. Sean Payton might have called a pass and it gotten picked.  But come on, to have that opportunity stolen by an official?? It's sickening.  It's SO difficult to make it to a Super Bowl (shut up, Pats fans, you're an anomaly). It took us 9 years to get even back to this point. Who knows if, ever, we will get back there again. That one (lack of) call affected, not only the game, but will very likely affect jobs and careers, while literally changing the course of millions of dollars.  I'm not a conspiracy guy either, but after re-watching all the angles, reading all the info such as the petition, the NFL rulebook quote about commish overturning game results, etc. (and vetting the mis-info, there's plenty of that too), it's difficult for my logically thinking brain to not let the notion creep in there. But it doesn't matter. Won't change anything, I know that. In closing, I feel the league's integrity has been seriously undermined here in a big way. I know we aren't the first team to ever have a call or no-call screw us over, but I feel confident in saying this one is the worst, most-costly one in league history, at least in all my NFL watching days. And for the first time since I was about 10 years old, I won't be watching the SB this year. I just can't. 

 
Junior McSpiffy said:
They had no chance against the Dallas run D.

They had no chance against the Saints on their homefield. 

What premise are you working on this time... third time's a charm?  "Eventually the Rams will have no chance."
Click to expand...
The premise that the Pats, while yes they win a lot of games by a narrow margin, KEEP ON WINNING critical games. Year in, year out.

Obviously the Rams have a chance, but they're going to have to play lights out, get lucky more than once, and get to Brady from the get-go and all night. Not a lot of teams have been able to pull this off.

The other premise being my very subjective opinion that the Saints & Chiefs were better equipped to beat the Pats and they're both out. I have very little doubt the Pats wind up with another Lombardi trophy.

I'm not a Pats fan, and I'd love to see the Rams win. I am just completely mind-boggled at what the Pats have been able to do. I have so much respect for them as competitors & winners it's just insane.

 
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Nathan R. Jessep said:
First time I have been able to check in here. I'm not reading all the comments. I know what they are. Same thing I stayed up reading and watching Sunday night until about 1AM, because I was so angry and bitter that I couldn't go to sleep. About 75-85% disbelief and 15-25% jubilation that the Saints got their 'karma' for "Insert your personal team vendetta here." I don't get upset about ballgames. I was sad last year on the Minny Miracle, but that was one player missing a play.  This year, it's straight up ANGER.  And I know, I know. Don't give me "score TD instead of FGs" please. We took what a very tough Rams D gave us at the time. No team scores 6 every trip to the red zone. Don't give me "call better plays." Of course, us couch coaches have a better gameplan than the head coach or OC. That's our job. There's always going to be second guessing on play calls that didn't go as planned.  Trust me, my buddies and I were screaming the whole game about "why run there?" and "why throw there?" just like we do every other game, college and pro. ABSOLUTELY NONE of that, however, takes away from the fact that the outcome of the game, in all likelihood, was blatantly and obviously changed but such an egregious inaction. I'm NOT a "blame the officials" guy either and never have been. Up to those final moments, I thought the game was called loosely (letting holdings and inadvertent face masks go FOR BOTH TEAMS) and I was completely fine with that, as it was called (or not called) equally both ways.  And sure, appropriately given that first and goal inside 2 minutes, we could have fumbled. We could have missed the chipshot field goal. Sean Payton might have called a pass and it gotten picked.  But come on, to have that opportunity stolen by an official?? It's sickening.  It's SO difficult to make it to a Super Bowl (shut up, Pats fans, you're an anomaly). It took us 9 years to get even back to this point. Who knows if, ever, we will get back there again. That one (lack of) call affected, not only the game, but will very likely affect jobs and careers, while literally changing the course of millions of dollars.  I'm not a conspiracy guy either, but after re-watching all the angles, reading all the info such as the petition, the NFL rulebook quote about commish overturning game results, etc. (and vetting the mis-info, there's plenty of that too), it's difficult for my logically thinking brain to not let the notion creep in there. But it doesn't matter. Won't change anything, I know that. In closing, I feel the league's integrity has been seriously undermined here in a big way. I know we aren't the first team to ever have a call or no-call screw us over, but I feel confident in saying this one is the worst, most-costly one in league history, at least in all my NFL watching days. And for the first time since I was about 10 years old, I won't be watching the SB this year. I just can't. 
Click to expand...
I think you need a hug.   ;)

 
Sand said:
This doesn't even include the non PI call on Drew's interception.  Ball was not tipped (hit the arm, not the ball), Rams defender took the WR out and caught the ball.  Just awful.
Click to expand...
I actually asked this question in the thread shortly after it happened.  Once I saw the replay it made me wonder if it should have been PI.  They asked the referee guy on the broadcast but I don't recall exactly what he said other than it wouldn't be called.  I don't know if it was for a rules reason (like the tuck rule) or just because in practice it would never be called.

 
Bucky86 said:
In real time it looks like his arm is hit probably tipping the ball. Which explains the no PI call. Unless we want to allow reviews for every non-call? Good luck with that. As mentioned in another thread, we'll just have coaches throwing flags after every big play that happens against them.
Click to expand...
Interesting as I can distinctly remember calls of roughing the punter where the rusher hits the kicking leg but didn't get the ball.  15 yards every time.  I wonder why this is different.  Sometimes they pull out a rule I've never heard.

 
Bucky86 said:
In real time it looks like his arm is hit probably tipping the ball. Which explains the no PI call. Unless we want to allow reviews for every non-call? Good luck with that. As mentioned in another thread, we'll just have coaches throwing flags after every big play that happens against them.
Click to expand...
I missed that replay I guess. But either way, they didn't give the "tipped ball" signal. They said incomplete pass. 

 
Bucky86 said:
 Roughing the kicker. It is a foul for roughing the kicker if a defensive player:

contacts the plant leg of the kicker while his kicking leg is still in the air

slides into or contacts the kicker when both of the kicker’s feet are on the ground. It is not a foul if the contact is not severe, or if the kicker returns both feet to the ground prior to the contact and falls over a defender on the ground
Click to expand...
Yep.  Defender takes out both legs but ball gets out untipped.  It happens.

 
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