***Official Philadelphia Phillies Thread*** - Castellanos ****s wit Philly (1 Viewer)

[Insein]

And 3 out of 4 from Washington! Keep it up boys!

So now they will get swept by the Sox like I said. (Again hoping that doesn't happen but being realistic).

 

[Bigboy10182000]

And 3 out of 4 from Washington! Keep it up boys!

So now they will get swept by the Sox like I said. (Again hoping that doesn't happen but being realistic).

Had they lost today I would be in your boat. It finally seems like we have momentum on our side and I'm hoping they carry it through to this next series.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Lannan with 2 consecutive amazing outings. Never expected that from him.

God this bullpen is just a nightmare, though.

 

[Insein]

Well it wasn't a sweep. So yay!. Now go win today and close it out at .500

 

[Long Ball Larry]

WOW! Nice series for Mayberry!

 

[Insein]

So I'm in for the 2nd half at least. Nothing else to root for. Lets go get a playoff spot.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Wow, run differential is -45. Pythagorean W-L is 43-53.

 

[sporthenry]

Wow, run differential is -45. Pythagorean W-L is 43-53.

Smoke and mirrors. Crazy thing is their record in 1 run games isn't even that good. Bullpen blows. SP is very good. Will be interesting to see if Doc is able to come back at all.

Revere is a huge loss. Phillies are finally back into the race, at least for a bit. But instead of adding another hitter or just staying put, now they have to go out and get a replacement who will most likely be worse than Revere. And they'll have to give up something to get him.

Ideally, they need a guy who can play CF but is more a power hitter from the corner so they not only replace Revere short term but add the extra pop from the corner when he is back. Rios would seem ideal here but again, the Phillies can't move a ton of assets. Maybe a catcher.

 

[Insein]

Honestly at this point I would just roll with Hernandez and see how quickly Revere can get back. No sense in giving up anything right now. I'd also move Pappelbon. I still think his value is high to a team like Detroit or Boston.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Ideally, they need a guy who can play CF but is more a power hitter from the corner so they not only replace Revere short term but add the extra pop from the corner when he is back. Rios would seem ideal here but again, the Phillies can't move a ton of assets. Maybe a catcher.

What's wrong with Jayberry? Revere wasnt going to hit .350 the rest of the season and he doesnt walk and has zero power. Doesnt seem like that much of a tradeoff offensively. Id hate to see them waste anything valuable when it seems like we already have the perfect short-term replacement right here.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Ideally, they need a guy who can play CF but is more a power hitter from the corner so they not only replace Revere short term but add the extra pop from the corner when he is back. Rios would seem ideal here but again, the Phillies can't move a ton of assets. Maybe a catcher.

What's wrong with Jayberry? Revere wasnt going to hit .350 the rest of the season and he doesnt walk and has zero power. Doesnt seem like that much of a tradeoff offensively. Id hate to see them waste anything valuable when it seems like we already have the perfect short-term replacement right here.

Then I suppose they would need to add some bench depth or do they have anyone they can call up?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Ideally, they need a guy who can play CF but is more a power hitter from the corner so they not only replace Revere short term but add the extra pop from the corner when he is back. Rios would seem ideal here but again, the Phillies can't move a ton of assets. Maybe a catcher.

What's wrong with Jayberry? Revere wasnt going to hit .350 the rest of the season and he doesnt walk and has zero power. Doesnt seem like that much of a tradeoff offensively. Id hate to see them waste anything valuable when it seems like we already have the perfect short-term replacement right here.

He's been given tons of chances. Just doesn't seem like an everyday player. I do agree that it doesn't make sense to give up much for this team right now but I can't argue that an upgrade in the OF would be a major help.

The one thing that the Phillies can do is take on money, so a guy like Rios might be interesting if he didn't cost much player-wise.

 

[sporthenry]

Ideally, they need a guy who can play CF but is more a power hitter from the corner so they not only replace Revere short term but add the extra pop from the corner when he is back. Rios would seem ideal here but again, the Phillies can't move a ton of assets. Maybe a catcher.

What's wrong with Jayberry? Revere wasnt going to hit .350 the rest of the season and he doesnt walk and has zero power. Doesnt seem like that much of a tradeoff offensively. Id hate to see them waste anything valuable when it seems like we already have the perfect short-term replacement right here.

He's been given tons of chances. Just doesn't seem like an everyday player. I do agree that it doesn't make sense to give up much for this team right now but I can't argue that an upgrade in the OF would be a major help.

The one thing that the Phillies can do is take on money, so a guy like Rios might be interesting if he didn't cost much player-wise.

Agreed. Mayberry can't just replace Revere especially since the line up was doing so well with him at the top. Assuming J-Roll moves up to the top, they need a bat to almost replace him later in the order. But it makes no sense to get a true CF since Revere will be back. Mayberry adds some pop, but they need more pop if they are to replace Revere's average, OBP and SB's.

The thing is, this team probably needed another bat regardless if they were going for it. Now it just ups that need. And if you can get a guy who not only solves your CF issue now but your RF issue for the rest of this year and next year, they have to look into it. As much as people want this team to become complete sellers, they most likely won't sell the farm b/c their TV deal is up in 2015. There have been rumblings that they have to continue to put competitive teams on the field through then to keep their TV contract value up.

I'm not sure what Rios' value will be. Like you said, the Phillies can spend money especially next year and he solves RF for next year so I think it'd be silly to just dismiss it. They have the 29th off. They have 9 games before then. I don't think we'll see anything before that and Mayberry can at least play capable CF but if they are still in it, they have to make a move b/c they won't be for long if their line up consists of Ruf, Delmon Young and John Mayberry.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

 

[Billy Bats]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

. It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

 

[Eephus]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

If you have to follow a bad team, it might as well have some characters on it

 

[E-Z Glider]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

If you have to follow a bad team, it might as well have some characters on it

Wilson is a character. Delmon is a scumbag and Papelbon is a ########. As long as Im being honest, Im having trouble warming up to Dom Brown and his bat-flipping, chicken-wing circling the bases ### too. I guess its always hard transitioning from a home-grown team you've loved (Utley, Howard, JRoll, Chooch, Hamels, etc) to something like this.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

 

[sporthenry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

The rumblings seem to be they are going to try to sell while also trying to compete. So they'll trade M. Young and Pappelbon but at the same time go after another arm for the bullpen and a bat. To an extent what they did last year with Vic/Pence. Wilson makes sense b/c you won't have to give anything up like you would to get someone like Cishek.

I still like Rios b/c he fills your RF hole for the next year or two but he'll be somewhat costly.

 

[sporthenry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team.

I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

 

[Eephus]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

If you have to follow a bad team, it might as well have some characters on it

Wilson is a character. Delmon is a scumbag and Papelbon is a ########. As long as Im being honest, Im having trouble warming up to Dom Brown and his bat-flipping, chicken-wing circling the bases ### too. I guess its always hard transitioning from a home-grown team you've loved (Utley, Howard, JRoll, Chooch, Hamels, etc) to something like this.

good points but even a losing team made up of scrappy good guys gets tiresome after a while

 

[Thunderlips]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team.

I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

Which OF would you have spent on last offseason?

 

[E-Z Glider]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

If you have to follow a bad team, it might as well have some characters on it

Wilson is a character. Delmon is a scumbag and Papelbon is a ########. As long as Im being honest, Im having trouble warming up to Dom Brown and his bat-flipping, chicken-wing circling the bases ### too. I guess its always hard transitioning from a home-grown team you've loved (Utley, Howard, JRoll, Chooch, Hamels, etc) to something like this.

good points but even a losing team made up of scrappy good guys gets tiresome after a while

True. Cant all be Cards fans and have scrappy good guys that win every year.

 

[sporthenry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

 

[Insein]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

The rumblings seem to be they are going to try to sell while also trying to compete. So they'll trade M. Young and Pappelbon but at the same time go after another arm for the bullpen and a bat. To an extent what they did last year with Vic/Pence. Wilson makes sense b/c you won't have to give anything up like you would to get someone like Cishek.

I still like Rios b/c he fills your RF hole for the next year or two but he'll be somewhat costly.

If they're trying to compete there's no way they get rid of Michael Young. He's their best hitter. You take him out of that lineup and god its just abysmal.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Has Delmon Young ever watched a baseball game? It most likely wouldn't have mattered, but when he was on first and Ruf hit a grounder up the middle, Young got about halfway to second base and just ran out of the base path. Show a little effort, Delmon. I mean, I don't know what I expected from him, but the guy gets less and less likeable all the time.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Rumors of Utley contract extension.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/25/4556424/phillies-rumors-chase-utley-contract-extension-in-the-works

 

[Eephus]

Rumors of Utley contract extension.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/25/4556424/phillies-rumors-chase-utley-contract-extension-in-the-works

On the one hand, it's always good when stars play out their career for one team. But I don't know what a 34 year old MI has to do with rebuilding a team back into a championship contender.

 

[Thunderlips]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

A) The Howard contract.

B) Not pushing more into the International FA market (the Puigs and Darvishes)

This team won 1 WS, was a fluke Johnny Damon steal from being in a nice situation in the 09 Series, a Herculean effort from Cody Ross in 10 and a 4 run lead blown by Lee in 11.......they did pretty much everything else right in building a Dynasty. Now they got to bring it down a notch and rebuild.

I listen to a lot of Philly sports radio....and one of the criticisims I have of the average caller is this idea thye espouse that the Phillies need to continually spend now just like the Yankees and Red Sox.....because now that they are a successful team....they need to act like it. That spending hasn't exactly been great for either the Yanks or Sox has it?.......The Yanks are saddled with more bad contracts than just about any other team....and it really only took a miracle trade with the Dodgers to relieve the Sox of their burdens.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

gl trying to get this answer.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

A) The Howard contract.

B) Not pushing more into the International FA market (the Puigs and Darvishes)

This team won 1 WS, was a fluke Johnny Damon steal from being in a nice situation in the 09 Series, a Herculean effort from Cody Ross in 10 and a 4 run lead blown by Lee in 11.......they did pretty much everything else right in building a Dynasty. Now they got to bring it down a notch and rebuild.

I listen to a lot of Philly sports radio....and one of the criticisims I have of the average caller is this idea thye espouse that the Phillies need to continually spend now just like the Yankees and Red Sox.....because now that they are a successful team....they need to act like it. That spending hasn't exactly been great for either the Yanks or Sox has it?.......The Yanks are saddled with more bad contracts than just about any other team....and it really only took a miracle trade with the Dodgers to relieve the Sox of their burdens.

Not to mention with 1 or 2 hits, they are in the NLCS again and then who knows.

 

[Eephus]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

A) The Howard contract.

B) Not pushing more into the International FA market (the Puigs and Darvishes)

This team won 1 WS, was a fluke Johnny Damon steal from being in a nice situation in the 09 Series, a Herculean effort from Cody Ross in 10 and a 4 run lead blown by Lee in 11.......they did pretty much everything else right in building a Dynasty. Now they got to bring it down a notch and rebuild.

I listen to a lot of Philly sports radio....and one of the criticisims I have of the average caller is this idea thye espouse that the Phillies need to continually spend now just like the Yankees and Red Sox.....because now that they are a successful team....they need to act like it. That spending hasn't exactly been great for either the Yanks or Sox has it?.......The Yanks are saddled with more bad contracts than just about any other team....and it really only took a miracle trade with the Dodgers to relieve the Sox of their burdens.

Not to mention with 1 or 2 hits, they are in the NLCS again and then who knows.

No debating they had a good run. They could have collected more silverware but the playoffs are a crapshoot no matter how strong your pitching is on paper. But this team more than most was built around a window.

The Howard contract is an albatross but Philadelphia has enough money to absorb it. They're only in real trouble if Hamels goes south as well. They need a plan and the patience to rebuild. I'm not sure Amaro is the guy to do that but I've been wrong about GMs before.

 

[Billy Bats]

Rumors of Utley contract extension.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/25/4556424/phillies-rumors-chase-utley-contract-extension-in-the-works

On the one hand, it's always good when stars play out their career for one team. But I don't know what a 34 year old MI has to do with rebuilding a team back into a championship contender.

Especially one with bad knees. Not sure what the point of signing him is, makes zero sense in tying up 36-45m for the next 3 years on him.

If Wayne Gretzky, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice etc. can play for other teams, so can Chase Utley. Get a prospect or two while you can, it's time to stop living like it's 2008.

 

[sporthenry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

A) The Howard contract.

B) Not pushing more into the International FA market (the Puigs and Darvishes)

This team won 1 WS, was a fluke Johnny Damon steal from being in a nice situation in the 09 Series, a Herculean effort from Cody Ross in 10 and a 4 run lead blown by Lee in 11.......they did pretty much everything else right in building a Dynasty. Now they got to bring it down a notch and rebuild.

I listen to a lot of Philly sports radio....and one of the criticisims I have of the average caller is this idea thye espouse that the Phillies need to continually spend now just like the Yankees and Red Sox.....because now that they are a successful team....they need to act like it. That spending hasn't exactly been great for either the Yanks or Sox has it?.......The Yanks are saddled with more bad contracts than just about any other team....and it really only took a miracle trade with the Dodgers to relieve the Sox of their burdens.

That'd be fine, if they were rebuilding. I know its complicated by the TV deal but they are just in purgatory and it seems their intentions are to trot out an 80 win team for the next few years so they can say they are competitive. That is just further reaffirmed with keeping Utley. The big reason they got rid of Pence/Victorino wasn't to rebuild but to get under the luxury tax threshold. They didn't go in full rebuild mode b/c I think they figured they had enough talent to make a run at it this year so I figured they were just getting under the luxury tax to avoid the repeat offenders status as they went for it one last time with this group.

I guess they had bigger intentions this offseason and they fell through (mostly for better) but spending less than $5 million on an outfield and call yourself a contender is a joke. Victorino or Pence would probably have done wonders for this line up. Heck, even Schierholtz would be better. I'd even prefer overpaying for **** Swisher or Pagan than what we have now.

I understand not spending money just for the sake of it. But even with reckless spending by the Yankees/Red Sox, they have still had more success in making the playoffs in the last 5 years than just about any other franchise. I know free agency is changing and less players are hitting the open market in their prime but without a core of Utley, Rollins, Howard in the pipeline, they are going to have to look outside the organization.

I agree the Howard contract is an abortion (that apparently was the doing of ownership as well as RAJ) and I'd love to see them go after foreigners more. Although to be fair, a lot of teams are kicking themselves over Puig and many teams were gun shy about foreigners after Daisuke and others came and weren't great. I'd love to get Gonzalez from Cuba but then again, so would everyone else. They seem to be as much of a crapshoot as anyone else though.

I guess my main point is that I just want to see them do something. Either be a buyer or a seller. Probably too late to be a buyer and it seems they are just going to move Paps and Young but keep Ruiz, Utley, etc. And for what? And even the prospects they get now will be 2-3 years out so that doesn't help for 2015 but is a start.

 

[sporthenry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

gl trying to get this answer.

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

 

[Eephus]

Rumors of Utley contract extension.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/25/4556424/phillies-rumors-chase-utley-contract-extension-in-the-works

On the one hand, it's always good when stars play out their career for one team. But I don't know what a 34 year old MI has to do with rebuilding a team back into a championship contender.

Especially one with bad knees. Not sure what the point of signing him is, makes zero sense in tying up 36-45m for the next 3 years on him.

If Wayne Gretzky, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice etc. can play for other teams, so can Chase Utley. Get a prospect or two while you can, it's time to stop living like it's 2008.

If he can learn to bat right handed, he could platoon with Howard at 1B

 

[E-Z Glider]

Rumors of Utley contract extension.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/25/4556424/phillies-rumors-chase-utley-contract-extension-in-the-works

On the one hand, it's always good when stars play out their career for one team. But I don't know what a 34 year old MI has to do with rebuilding a team back into a championship contender.

Especially one with bad knees. Not sure what the point of signing him is, makes zero sense in tying up 36-45m for the next 3 years on him.

If Wayne Gretzky, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice etc. can play for other teams, so can Chase Utley. Get a prospect or two while you can, it's time to stop living like it's 2008.

He's not quite what he was in his prime, but when he's on the field he's still one of the best 2B's in baseball. It all depends on the contract (which I assume would be a significant hometown discount), but Utley for even 120 games + Galvis for 42 games is WAY better than the 2B production you're going to get internally or from a similarly priced FA.

 

[Thunderlips]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

gl trying to get this answer.

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

Brown and Revere are two decent OFs. Young's a dog.....but he's only a year or two removed from semi-legit productivity. Hell...I was seriously looking at buying some wagers (66-1) to win the World Series and (35-1) to win the NL before Revere got hurt as I thought that if this team stayed healthy, Hamels got some swagger back and Amaro went and got a veteran OF (Rios) and a bullpen piece, they could have made it into the playoffs....and once in...I wouldn't say that any team in the NL (with the exception of the Cards) was head and shoulders better.

I very much agree with your previous post.....either buy or sell....don't tread water.....but in regards to Utley; if he's going to give him a discount in years and money, I don't have a problem with them keeping him as he is the face of this team. Granted, you could say that the Phils made their "face of the team" commitment when they gave Howards that money....and I can't disagree with someone saying that they shouldn't make the same mistake twice.....but come on....there are children all up and down the Delaware Valley named Chase....many conceived after Game 5.2. Moving him would be like the Yanks moving Jeter. It does suck though as I think he'd bring back a nice piece.

 

[Billy Bats]

What do you guys consider a hometown discount?

 

[sporthenry]

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

Brown and Revere are two decent OFs. Young's a dog.....but he's only a year or two removed from semi-legit productivity. Hell...I was seriously looking at buying some wagers (66-1) to win the World Series and (35-1) to win the NL before Revere got hurt as I thought that if this team stayed healthy, Hamels got some swagger back and Amaro went and got a veteran OF (Rios) and a bullpen piece, they could have made it into the playoffs....and once in...I wouldn't say that any team in the NL (with the exception of the Cards) was head and shoulders better.

I very much agree with your previous post.....either buy or sell....don't tread water.....but in regards to Utley; if he's going to give him a discount in years and money, I don't have a problem with them keeping him as he is the face of this team. Granted, you could say that the Phils made their "face of the team" commitment when they gave Howards that money....and I can't disagree with someone saying that they shouldn't make the same mistake twice.....but come on....there are children all up and down the Delaware Valley named Chase....many conceived after Game 5.2. Moving him would be like the Yanks moving Jeter. It does suck though as I think he'd bring back a nice piece.

Fair enough with regards to Revere. He really put a wrench in the plans b/c they needed another bat regardless. But maybe he saved them a prospect or two since at this point, it'd be a waste to buy.As far as moving Chase, I understand the sentimental value but that isn't really how things work anymore. Wasn't there speculation that Jeter might not be a Yankee a few years ago? I have no idea what his value is, but his value seems greater in the AL. So even with a hometown discount, there is still a huge risk with his knees. Yes, it'd be a terribly sad day to see Utley go but is it worth it? In prospects they could get back? In salary saved? Heck, we still don't have a place to play Hernandez or Galvis now who I actually like. I guess they are going to move Hernandez to an OF, but he doesn't have power. And with Rollins and Utley still here, the only opening is 3B which many are just penciling in Franco.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Time to sell?

Not sure I could stomach having Delmon, Papelbon and Brian Wilson on my favorite team.

.It's been time to sell, they're nothing more than a .500 team and getting older by the minute. Time to dish off what you can and get some younger guys in the system. I'd rather be .500 with promise instead of .500 and heading nowhere but down.

Its really a bad time for them to sell though. They need to stay competitive / keep selling tickets until they get the new TV deal. People arent going to pay to see a team full of young guys with promise learning on the fly.

That is why I wish we spent some of that money prematurely and went after some big FA's. Our whole OF is cheaper than Mike Adams. I guess the owners wanted to reign in some spending but spending an extra $20-$30 million now would easily make itself up in 2 years if they are a playoff team. I'm not too familiar with the finances and maybe it doesn't matter how competitive they are regarding their next TV deal but I think they'll have to be buyers in the next year or two at some point.

It's not like the Phillies brand is going to fall off the face of the Earth if they have a couple of bad years; particularly if they're growing a good nucleus. The FA market in baseball has changed. The In His Prime player is, more and more being locked up by the team he was drafted by. Rube needs to build a nucleus that can be legit by 2016....and then augment that with veterans and role players. Where they might benefit from spending money is if, in the case of a Ryan Howard or Cliff Lee....eating big portions of those contracts would get them better prospects in return.

I don't disagree that a growing nucleus is exciting but their nucleus doesn't have a ton to get excited about. Not that scouts aren't wrong but Biddle is projected as a middle of the rotation guy. Franco has jumped Asche but still has a ton of kinks to work out. They have Galvis and Hernandez who I like but they'll be a far cry from Rollins/Utley. Catcher, I feel at least 1 of the 3 will develop. Brown has been a welcome surprise and Revere has been good. But they need a corner power bat which isn't in the pipelines.Putting it on paper, it isn't terrible except for the huge elephant in the room that is Howard. If he was playing at a quality level, he could offset some of the lack of power they have. But they pretty much need to get a power bat. Even if they try to unload Howard's contract, they'll still be paying him a ton to play elsewhere and need a replacement 1B.

As for the Phillies brand, they lost the sellout streak and had a 40% decline in ratings last year (granted when you are at the top, things can only go down). They are still 6th in attendance but might lose as much as $25 million compared to last year with attendance and they were 7th in ratings last year so all isn't lost but I can't imagine the ratings are much better this year. And as mentioned, they won't be able to rebuild by 2015, so I'm not sure ratings will increase much. Of course they'll still get a solid deal but imagine being able to enter your negotiation deal with record or near record viewership?

Apparently the Phillies might luck out b/c Fox Sports wants to get another East coast team in addition to the Yankees and since they can't buy into the Red Sox or Mets, the Phillies are the next logical choice. So it could become a bidding war between FS and Comcast.

They are still looking at a contract in the billions but they might end up leaving some money on the table if ratings decline. Combine that with the supposed $25 million revenue loss in ticket sales and I just don't know why they went cheap trading away Pence/Victorino and barely spending money this offseason.

Where would you have gone though?......It's not like a lot of the FA OF's have lit the world on fire. My main criticisim of the Phillies would be:

gl trying to get this answer.

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

Of course I'm not suggesting that he has done well, but any of those options would have been crazy overpays, with the exception of Pence, as he wouldn't be locked up long-term.

In retrospect, perhaps they should have kept him. He would have filled in nicely this year and they could have let him go if they wanted. I would not want to get tied up in a 3 or 4 year deal and 8 figures per year for a middling player.

I hate Young, but I don't know that overspending on Swisher or Pagan really would have been better. The team needs to get some kind of financial flexibility, which I think is what RAJ is trying to do, even though I certainly wouldn't give particularly high marks thus far, as I don't see a particularly bright future at this point.

 

[Thunderlips]

What do you guys consider a hometown discount?

What do you guys consider a hometown discount?

Something lighter on the years and without a player option at the end of it. I don't have a problem paying him a fair yearly salary ( or a % above if it means less years)

Howard is the logjam....because you could put Utley at 1B to give him a bit of a rest in the field if you had to.

 

[Thunderlips]

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

Brown and Revere are two decent OFs. Young's a dog.....but he's only a year or two removed from semi-legit productivity. Hell...I was seriously looking at buying some wagers (66-1) to win the World Series and (35-1) to win the NL before Revere got hurt as I thought that if this team stayed healthy, Hamels got some swagger back and Amaro went and got a veteran OF (Rios) and a bullpen piece, they could have made it into the playoffs....and once in...I wouldn't say that any team in the NL (with the exception of the Cards) was head and shoulders better.

I very much agree with your previous post.....either buy or sell....don't tread water.....but in regards to Utley; if he's going to give him a discount in years and money, I don't have a problem with them keeping him as he is the face of this team. Granted, you could say that the Phils made their "face of the team" commitment when they gave Howards that money....and I can't disagree with someone saying that they shouldn't make the same mistake twice.....but come on....there are children all up and down the Delaware Valley named Chase....many conceived after Game 5.2. Moving him would be like the Yanks moving Jeter. It does suck though as I think he'd bring back a nice piece.

Fair enough with regards to Revere. He really put a wrench in the plans b/c they needed another bat regardless. But maybe he saved them a prospect or two since at this point, it'd be a waste to buy.As far as moving Chase, I understand the sentimental value but that isn't really how things work anymore. Wasn't there speculation that Jeter might not be a Yankee a few years ago? I have no idea what his value is, but his value seems greater in the AL. So even with a hometown discount, there is still a huge risk with his knees. Yes, it'd be a terribly sad day to see Utley go but is it worth it? In prospects they could get back? In salary saved? Heck, we still don't have a place to play Hernandez or Galvis now who I actually like. I guess they are going to move Hernandez to an OF, but he doesn't have power. And with Rollins and Utley still here, the only opening is 3B which many are just penciling in Franco.

If the Phils were buying, I would have looked to maybe move Jimmy (and to be honest....he's as much as face of this team as Utley/Howard AND he might have a better shot at the HOF than either of them) for a RF bat and let Galvis start at SS and bat 8th.

 

[Eephus]

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

Brown and Revere are two decent OFs. Young's a dog.....but he's only a year or two removed from semi-legit productivity. Hell...I was seriously looking at buying some wagers (66-1) to win the World Series and (35-1) to win the NL before Revere got hurt as I thought that if this team stayed healthy, Hamels got some swagger back and Amaro went and got a veteran OF (Rios) and a bullpen piece, they could have made it into the playoffs....and once in...I wouldn't say that any team in the NL (with the exception of the Cards) was head and shoulders better.

I very much agree with your previous post.....either buy or sell....don't tread water.....but in regards to Utley; if he's going to give him a discount in years and money, I don't have a problem with them keeping him as he is the face of this team. Granted, you could say that the Phils made their "face of the team" commitment when they gave Howards that money....and I can't disagree with someone saying that they shouldn't make the same mistake twice.....but come on....there are children all up and down the Delaware Valley named Chase....many conceived after Game 5.2. Moving him would be like the Yanks moving Jeter. It does suck though as I think he'd bring back a nice piece.

Fair enough with regards to Revere. He really put a wrench in the plans b/c they needed another bat regardless. But maybe he saved them a prospect or two since at this point, it'd be a waste to buy.As far as moving Chase, I understand the sentimental value but that isn't really how things work anymore. Wasn't there speculation that Jeter might not be a Yankee a few years ago? I have no idea what his value is, but his value seems greater in the AL. So even with a hometown discount, there is still a huge risk with his knees. Yes, it'd be a terribly sad day to see Utley go but is it worth it? In prospects they could get back? In salary saved? Heck, we still don't have a place to play Hernandez or Galvis now who I actually like. I guess they are going to move Hernandez to an OF, but he doesn't have power. And with Rollins and Utley still here, the only opening is 3B which many are just penciling in Franco.

If the Phils were buying, I would have looked to maybe move Jimmy (and to be honest....he's as much as face of this team as Utley/Howard AND he might have a better shot at the HOF than either of them) for a RF bat and let Galvis start at SS and bat 8th.

Rollins' contract runs through next year and has an very achievable 2015 option. His power is down and his advanced fielding stats over a small 100 game sample this year are terrible. I don't see a lot of contending teams who would trade for Rollins without the Phils picking up some of the contract.

 

[Thunderlips]

Lets see, Victorino or Pence would look pretty good in the line up still. Not tendering Schierholtz was a huge mistake. Overspending on Swisher or Pagan would have been better than Delmon. Yes, lo-balling BJ looks pretty good right now. But so are you suggesting that RAJ has done well? That our outfield or line up as a whole is good?

Brown and Revere are two decent OFs. Young's a dog.....but he's only a year or two removed from semi-legit productivity. Hell...I was seriously looking at buying some wagers (66-1) to win the World Series and (35-1) to win the NL before Revere got hurt as I thought that if this team stayed healthy, Hamels got some swagger back and Amaro went and got a veteran OF (Rios) and a bullpen piece, they could have made it into the playoffs....and once in...I wouldn't say that any team in the NL (with the exception of the Cards) was head and shoulders better.

I very much agree with your previous post.....either buy or sell....don't tread water.....but in regards to Utley; if he's going to give him a discount in years and money, I don't have a problem with them keeping him as he is the face of this team. Granted, you could say that the Phils made their "face of the team" commitment when they gave Howards that money....and I can't disagree with someone saying that they shouldn't make the same mistake twice.....but come on....there are children all up and down the Delaware Valley named Chase....many conceived after Game 5.2. Moving him would be like the Yanks moving Jeter. It does suck though as I think he'd bring back a nice piece.

Fair enough with regards to Revere. He really put a wrench in the plans b/c they needed another bat regardless. But maybe he saved them a prospect or two since at this point, it'd be a waste to buy.As far as moving Chase, I understand the sentimental value but that isn't really how things work anymore. Wasn't there speculation that Jeter might not be a Yankee a few years ago? I have no idea what his value is, but his value seems greater in the AL. So even with a hometown discount, there is still a huge risk with his knees. Yes, it'd be a terribly sad day to see Utley go but is it worth it? In prospects they could get back? In salary saved? Heck, we still don't have a place to play Hernandez or Galvis now who I actually like. I guess they are going to move Hernandez to an OF, but he doesn't have power. And with Rollins and Utley still here, the only opening is 3B which many are just penciling in Franco.

If the Phils were buying, I would have looked to maybe move Jimmy (and to be honest....he's as much as face of this team as Utley/Howard AND he might have a better shot at the HOF than either of them) for a RF bat and let Galvis start at SS and bat 8th.

Rollins' contract runs through next year and has an very achievable 2015 option. His power is down and his advanced fielding stats over a small 100 game sample this year are terrible. I don't see a lot of contending teams who would trade for Rollins without the Phils picking up some of the contract.

The Phils should be spending money that way. They're going to be floating in money with a new TV deal in a few years.

 

[Billy Bats]

What do you guys consider a hometown discount?

What do you guys consider a hometown discount?

Something lighter on the years and without a player option at the end of it. I don't have a problem paying him a fair yearly salary ( or a % above if it means less years)

Howard is the logjam....because you could put Utley at 1B to give him a bit of a rest in the field if you had to.

He'll probably get a Rollins type deal on years at Utley's price, say 3/41 with an option. Are you willing to do that? Sentimental feelings aside, I wouldn't be thrilled.

On another note, a very unsubstantiated twitter rumor is that they scratched Lee from his start tomorrow to complete a huge trade involving Clifton Phifer. Word is the Dodgers are going all in and want Lee and Utley.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Lee scratched tonight. Supposedly stiff neck. Hmmm.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

They better not eat much of that contract, unless they got ridiculous prospects back. I'm totally cool with trading him, but mostly because I want financial flexibility. I would be fine with holding on to Lee, if that's the way it works out, much more than Utley or Lee or Ruiz or others.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Not trying to pile on and I'm not a Philadelphia hater, but this is the worst game played by a team I've seen all year. They are just giving the Tigers runs on 4 ball walks and easy plays that should be outs. Dropped pop ups, high throws to home and just not judging distances of baserunners in motion.