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***Official Philadelphia Phillies Thread*** - Castellanos ****s wit Philly (1 Viewer)

Long Ball Larry said:
Maybe we can get the number 1 pick for next year.
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No way they catch the 'Stros. 13.5 games worse. They should assure themselves of a top 10 pick (currently #9) although with this team, they'll have a great September and ruin that. Although this team looks like they are just giving up. Run differential they are actually 2nd worst team.

But with a top 5-10 pick, they should be able to get someone to pair with Crawford as they go through the system. Either a top of the rotation guy or a nice power bat in the OF.

 
Asche looking like a solid starter if not more. Surprised, he needed to come up here to get PT. We'll see if Franco really is better.

Gonzalez signing looks less likely.

Utley signs a 2 year $27 million deal with 3 vesting/club options that can bring the deal up to $75 million. Vesting options are for $15 million each. They vest at 500 PA's which he hasn't reached since 2009 and I don't expect him to reach it by the time they vest. I doubt he sees the end of it and will probably need the club to pick up the option if he is to stay.

Good news is that Ruf looks like a major leaguer. Bad news is that they'll probably pencil him into RF next year as opposed to platooning him with Howard and getting another bat.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Has Delmon Young ever watched a baseball game? It most likely wouldn't have mattered, but when he was on first and Ruf hit a grounder up the middle, Young got about halfway to second base and just ran out of the base path. Show a little effort, Delmon. I mean, I don't know what I expected from him, but the guy gets less and less likeable all the time.
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Delmon DFA'd. Please let the door hit you.

 
sporthenry said:
Utley signs a 2 year $27 million deal with 3 vesting/club options that can bring the deal up to $75 million. Vesting options are for $15 million each. They vest at 500 PA's which he hasn't reached since 2009 and I don't expect him to reach it by the time they vest. I doubt he sees the end of it and will probably need the club to pick up the option if he is to stay.
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I think that I can live with that.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
sporthenry said:
Utley signs a 2 year $27 million deal with 3 vesting/club options that can bring the deal up to $75 million. Vesting options are for $15 million each. They vest at 500 PA's which he hasn't reached since 2009 and I don't expect him to reach it by the time they vest. I doubt he sees the end of it and will probably need the club to pick up the option if he is to stay.
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I think that I can live with that.
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Same here. Wish Jimmy's was 2 years.

 
Insein said:
Long Ball Larry said:
sporthenry said:
Utley signs a 2 year $27 million deal with 3 vesting/club options that can bring the deal up to $75 million. Vesting options are for $15 million each. They vest at 500 PA's which he hasn't reached since 2009 and I don't expect him to reach it by the time they vest. I doubt he sees the end of it and will probably need the club to pick up the option if he is to stay.
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I think that I can live with that.
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Same here. Wish Jimmy's was 2 years.
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:shrug:

At this point Rollins isn't holding back some stud SS in the minors and the Phils still have the Howard and Papelbon dead weight contracts on the books for a couple years. Might as well ride out this old crew, maybe they can catch lighting in a bottle next year. They have the starting pitching.

 
Sucks for Charlie. I don't know what he could have been expected to do differently. They needed to change the players more than him, but he got 7 years and presided over a great run.

 
Caller brought up an interesting point on WIP. Citing Ruben's crying at the press conference as an example, he said that Ruben is too emotionally involved with the organization to make the right decisions. In fact, he stated today in a couple places that he is as much a fan of the team, if not more, than anyone else. He has been part of the organization for his whole life practically.

And I was thinking earlier today about how safe Ruben is and the fact that the ownership and management has been such a conservative and insular group for a very long time. The time that they had the most success was when Gillick came in and just blew it up. Of course, it helped that they had a core group that came up through the minors and came into their prime at the same time. Anyway, i'm very concerned about this organization's ability to turn over the roster and improve going forward.

Also crazy that Philadelphia sports teams have replaced 3 of the 4 head coaches in 8 months and was conceivable that there could have been a 4th. Flyers have a similar approach as the Phillies. Glad to see the new blood with the Eagles and Sixers.

 
Limp Ditka said:
So the Phillies were supposed to honor Charlie tonight for recently winning his 1,000 game as a manager?

oof.
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Firing him like that today is unbelievably classless. He deserved to ride out that year. Especially since that team is just horrible. The results on the field are on Amaro, not Manuel. They're old and broken down and everybody could see it. Not blowing up the team at the trade deadline was unforgivable.

 
Doc doesn't have a problem with Charlie being fired...

"I've exchanged texts with him, and obviously I loved him - he was great," said Halladay, who pitched in a rehab outing in Clearwater, Fla., the night before the news broke that Ryne Sandberg had replaced Manuel. "But from what I've seen, Ryne came in and made some changes and addressed some issues that I think were being overlooked. So from that standpoint, as much as I miss Charlie, I think that Ryne is going to do a good job, and I think he's going to bring back a little more of the Phillie baseball style than we've had the last couple of years. We really haven't had that whole team effort and that whole team hustle that I think we've had in the prior years." What were the issues? "Just different things, guys being at places on time, being on the field on time, taking ground balls, taking extra BP, all those little things that nobody thinks makes a difference," Halladay said. "I think he's been very good so far. But again, and I don't want to take away anything from Charlie, we all respected him tremendously, and I think he's going to have a choice of what he wants to do next."
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Sounds like that clubhouse is a mess.

 
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GroveDiesel said:
Limp Ditka said:
So the Phillies were supposed to honor Charlie tonight for recently winning his 1,000 game as a manager?

oof.
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Firing him like that today is unbelievably classless. He deserved to ride out that year. Especially since that team is just horrible. The results on the field are on Amaro, not Manuel. They're old and broken down and everybody could see it. Not blowing up the team at the trade deadline was unforgivable.
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Agree 100% with this. Even a tool like Reid that everyone and their mother wanted out got a better goodbye then the man that helped get us our first ring in 25 years. I'm actually shocked this didnt get more national pub.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Caller brought up an interesting point on WIP. Citing Ruben's crying at the press conference as an example, he said that Ruben is too emotionally involved with the organization to make the right decisions. In fact, he stated today in a couple places that he is as much a fan of the team, if not more, than anyone else. He has been part of the organization for his whole life practically.

And I was thinking earlier today about how safe Ruben is and the fact that the ownership and management has been such a conservative and insular group for a very long time. The time that they had the most success was when Gillick came in and just blew it up. Of course, it helped that they had a core group that came up through the minors and came into their prime at the same time. Anyway, i'm very concerned about this organization's ability to turn over the roster and improve going forward.

Also crazy that Philadelphia sports teams have replaced 3 of the 4 head coaches in 8 months and was conceivable that there could have been a 4th. Flyers have a similar approach as the Phillies. Glad to see the new blood with the Eagles and Sixers.
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I've heard Eskin mention this as well and I have to agree. Reuben is the GM and HAS to run this like a business! No excuse for some guys to not be gone at the deadline and this makes complete sense.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
GroveDiesel said:
Limp Ditka said:
So the Phillies were supposed to honor Charlie tonight for recently winning his 1,000 game as a manager?

oof.
Click to expand...
Firing him like that today is unbelievably classless. He deserved to ride out that year. Especially since that team is just horrible. The results on the field are on Amaro, not Manuel. They're old and broken down and everybody could see it. Not blowing up the team at the trade deadline was unforgivable.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% with this. Even a tool like Reid that everyone and their mother wanted out got a better goodbye then the man that helped get us our first ring in 25 years. I'm actually shocked this didnt get more national pub.
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A team 20 games out of first fires their manager in mid-August. How much national publicity do you expect?

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
Billy Bats said:
So the signing of Miguel Gonzalez might not happen after all...

http://zozone.mlblogs.com/2013/08/06/deal-for-cuban-might-not-happen-at-all/
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Is anything happening with this??
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Nothing new, just Zolecki rehashing the same news on Sunday:

PHILADELPHIA -- Fans still waiting to hear if the Phillies have signed Cuban right-hander Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez should not hold their breath.

MLB.com reported nearly two weeks ago that negotiations between the Phillies and Gonzalez had hit a snag after word spread July 26 they had agreed to a six-year, $48 million contract that included an $11 million option for 2019.

Little has changed recently, but if the deal happens at all, it might happen at less than the $48 million previously agreed upon.

The Phillies have said nothing about Gonzalez since the story broke, repeatedly declining comment any time they have been asked about the Cuban. But since the agreement leaked to reporters, numerous reports have mentioned scouts with questions about Gonzalez's elbow and health. He had bone spurs removed from his elbow sometime within the past two years, although it has been written he had made a full recovery.

It would help the Phillies to have Gonzlaez in the fold, if he is healthy and as good as advertised. Scouts consider him a No. 3 starter in the big leagues, which means he could potentially slide behind Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee next season.
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Link

eta: Zolecki just tweeted me back:

@billybats: Nothing has changed. Deal unlikely unless price drops
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Eephus said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
GroveDiesel said:
Limp Ditka said:
So the Phillies were supposed to honor Charlie tonight for recently winning his 1,000 game as a manager?

oof.
Click to expand...
Firing him like that today is unbelievably classless. He deserved to ride out that year. Especially since that team is just horrible. The results on the field are on Amaro, not Manuel. They're old and broken down and everybody could see it. Not blowing up the team at the trade deadline was unforgivable.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% with this. Even a tool like Reid that everyone and their mother wanted out got a better goodbye then the man that helped get us our first ring in 25 years. I'm actually shocked this didnt get more national pub.
Click to expand...
A team 20 games out of first fires their manager in mid-August. How much national publicity do you expect?
Click to expand...
Same as a guy like Andy Reid after leading us to a 4-12 year and nothing for the past decade?

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
Eephus said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
GroveDiesel said:
Limp Ditka said:
So the Phillies were supposed to honor Charlie tonight for recently winning his 1,000 game as a manager?

oof.
Click to expand...
Firing him like that today is unbelievably classless. He deserved to ride out that year. Especially since that team is just horrible. The results on the field are on Amaro, not Manuel. They're old and broken down and everybody could see it. Not blowing up the team at the trade deadline was unforgivable.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% with this. Even a tool like Reid that everyone and their mother wanted out got a better goodbye then the man that helped get us our first ring in 25 years. I'm actually shocked this didnt get more national pub.
Click to expand...
A team 20 games out of first fires their manager in mid-August. How much national publicity do you expect?
Click to expand...
Same as a guy like Andy Reid after leading us to a 4-12 year and nothing for the past decade?
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The everyday nature of the baseball season makes it a lot easier for stories like Cholly's firing to get lost in the shuffle. There are fifteen games to report on which fills up a lot of airtime. Biogenesis has also sucked a lot of the air out of the news cycle.

NFL head coaches also have higher visibility than baseball managers. I honestly couldn't pick Eric Wedge out of a lineup of middle aged white guys.

 
sporthenry said:
Long Ball Larry said:
Wow, run differential is -45. Pythagorean W-L is 43-53.
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Smoke and mirrors. Crazy thing is their record in 1 run games isn't even that good. Bullpen blows. SP is very good. Will be interesting to see if Doc is able to come back at all.

Revere is a huge loss. Phillies are finally back into the race, at least for a bit. But instead of adding another hitter or just staying put, now they have to go out and get a replacement who will most likely be worse than Revere. And they'll have to give up something to get him.

Ideally, they need a guy who can play CF but is more a power hitter from the corner so they not only replace Revere short term but add the extra pop from the corner when he is back. Rios would seem ideal here but again, the Phillies can't move a ton of assets. Maybe a catcher.
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Phillies run differential is now -129. The only team worse is the Astros. Meaning of course that we are actually lucky to be 69-80.

edit: whoops, was looking at Keri's power rankings, but that was from a couple days ago. Now the Phillies are -117, ahead of the Marlins and Mariners. Pythagorean W-L is 63-88, but actual is 71-80. We will probably end close to .500 and RAJ can blame injuries again . . .

 
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It's hard to take away many positives from this season. Dom Brown had a really, really good month. Ruf established himself as a platoon partner for a guy making $25/yr. Bastardo was pretty solid. Other than that, everybody just got another year older.

 
Eephus said:
It's hard to take away many positives from this season. Dom Brown had a really, really good month. Ruf established himself as a platoon partner for a guy making $25/yr. Bastardo was pretty solid. Other than that, everybody just got another year older.
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:mellow: There really isnt much to get excited about for the foreseeable future. Hamels and Lee are good, but Howard is broke, Brown is a turd, Rollins looks finished, Paps is a doosh and all of the young guys look to be below average players. Franco looked great in the minors, but is still a few years away and could just as easily regress. Biddle projects to be a 5th starter, hurray? At least Chase is still awesome. :wub:

 
I forgot about Cody Asche. He's been a pleasant surprise and is a good enough stopgap to not rush Franco. Asche has played 2B in the minors so could be an option there for the next time Utley gets hurt.

 
Eephus said:
I forgot about Cody Asche. He's been a pleasant surprise and is a good enough stopgap to not rush Franco. Asche has played 2B in the minors so could be an option there for the next time Utley gets hurt.
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They've also been giving Franco some time at 1B. Could be because his glove is below average or could be a contingency plan for Howard?

 
Eephus said:
Halladay lasted three batters with a fastball that was topping out at 83 mph. Not good.
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It's hard to watch. Just a shame how fast it left him. One year he is the best pitcher in baseball. Within 2 years of that, he can't throw a fastball over 87. Horrible way to end it. Really wish we had won a ring while he was here.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Phillies to do more with analytics

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/phillies-do-more-analytics

Welcome to 10 years ago (almost).

Amaro said the club might hire a person with an analytics background.

“We may bring someone in from the outside, but we have not decided that yet,” Amaro said. “If we have any changes at all, they will be pretty minor.”
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Time for RAJ to go.
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I think he's finished off the most successful era we've ever seen as incompetently as he could. Managed to take a WS winner and slowly and painfully turn it into a sub .500 team. In only 4 years. Well done RAJ.

As for analytics, I always remember Ruben's classic quote from Spring Training.

“I don’t care about walks,” Amaro said in January. “I care about production. To be frank with you, I’ve said this all along. All of the sabermatricians and all of the people who think they know exactly what makes a good club . . . to me, it’s more about run production and being able to score runs and drive in runs.”
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How do you think you produce runs, Ruben? By getting on ####### base!

 
Insein said:
Long Ball Larry said:
Phillies to do more with analytics

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/phillies-do-more-analytics

Welcome to 10 years ago (almost).

Amaro said the club might hire a person with an analytics background.

“We may bring someone in from the outside, but we have not decided that yet,” Amaro said. “If we have any changes at all, they will be pretty minor.”
Click to expand...
Time for RAJ to go.
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I think he's finished off the most successful era we've ever seen as incompetently as he could. Managed to take a WS winner and slowly and painfully turn it into a sub .500 team. In only 4 years. Well done RAJ.

As for analytics, I always remember Ruben's classic quote from Spring Training.

“I don’t care about walks,” Amaro said in January. “I care about production. To be frank with you, I’ve said this all along. All of the sabermatricians and all of the people who think they know exactly what makes a good club . . . to me, it’s more about run production and being able to score runs and drive in runs.”
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How do you think you produce runs, Ruben? By getting on ####### base!
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Putting aside the fact that, from my perspective, he is totally wrong about dismissing analytics, can he not see that he has been completely unable to field a team that can produce runs? Their run production has declined every year from its peak in 2009.

Feel free to go about it any way that will work, but when it's obviously not working and you see teams like the Rays and Pirates and Rangers, among many others, having success with advanced metrics, maybe you should think about changing it up.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Phillies to do more with analytics

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/phillies-do-more-analytics

Welcome to 10 years ago (almost).

Amaro said the club might hire a person with an analytics background.

“We may bring someone in from the outside, but we have not decided that yet,” Amaro said. “If we have any changes at all, they will be pretty minor.”
Click to expand...
Time for RAJ to go.
Click to expand...
Welcome to 10 years ago.

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2013/11/6/5072250/phillies-hire-the-analytics-guy-theyre-going-to-ignore

Phillies Hire The Analytics Guy They're Going To Ignore
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He's going to help us explore more thoroughly what the options are for using these metrics," Phillies assistant general manager Scott Proefrock said Tuesday. "We're looking at them to compliment the opinions of our scouts."

"He's got a wealth of experience at the global Major League Baseball level. It's simply a matter of educating ourselves to how some of our competitors value players. We may find something we are intrigued by, and we may find something we're not intrigued by. But we need to do more investigation and more research internally before we come to some conclusion about what may be right for us, in conjunction and certainly not to supercede what our scouts do."
In other words, the Phillies hired a guy to tell them all about the statistics that they're not going to use. Although, I do hear he knows a lot about Microsoft Excel, which will come in handy when Ruben wants to rank potential free agents acquisitions according to RBI totals.

Oh, and I found this last line by Zolecki amusing.

It remains to be seen how much the Phillies will use advanced metrics, but Freedman's arrival means they will have the stats at their disposal, in addition to a better understanding of what they mean and how they can be used to the club's advantage.
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I don't trust this guy, although my opinion of him is certainly colored by his dreadful initial years with the team. I guess if he is somewhere near what he did last year, this is actually an upgrade.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
I don't trust this guy, although my opinion of him is certainly colored by his dreadful initial years with the team. I guess if he is somewhere near what he did last year, this is actually an upgrade.
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I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the end of the season we could've had the same production for 7.5m less with Ruff.

 
Billy Bats said:
Long Ball Larry said:
I don't trust this guy, although my opinion of him is certainly colored by his dreadful initial years with the team. I guess if he is somewhere near what he did last year, this is actually an upgrade.
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I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the end of the season we could've had the same production for 7.5m less with Ruff.
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Ruf isn't really an OF. He and Howard would be a pretty good $25,000,000.98 platoon at first base.

Brown/Mayberry/Revere/Byrd is a workable four-man OF. They still have Shark Bernadina and assorted minor leaguers for a fifth. Or they can send Ruf out there occasionally and hope for the best.

 
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