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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (5 Viewers)

Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.

 
Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.
Sadly, not Daniel Bryan.

Daniel Bryan@WWEDanielBryan 8m8 minutes ago
Due to medical reasons, effective immediately, I am announcing my retirement. Tonight on Raw, I'll have a chance to elaborate. #gratitude

 
Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.
Sadly, not Daniel Bryan.

Daniel Bryan@WWEDanielBryan 8m8 minutes ago
Due to medical reasons, effective immediately, I am announcing my retirement. Tonight on Raw, I'll have a chance to elaborate. #gratitude
Fingers crossed this is a Mark Henry in a salmon jacket kinda deal.

 
Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.
Sadly, not Daniel Bryan.

Daniel Bryan@WWEDanielBryan 8m8 minutes ago
Due to medical reasons, effective immediately, I am announcing my retirement. Tonight on Raw, I'll have a chance to elaborate. #gratitude
As a wrestling fan... :thumbdown:

OTOH - and more importantly - I'd rather he be healthy to enjoy that hot wife of his.

 
Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.
Sadly, not Daniel Bryan.

Daniel Bryan@WWEDanielBryan 8m8 minutes ago
Due to medical reasons, effective immediately, I am announcing my retirement. Tonight on Raw, I'll have a chance to elaborate. #gratitude
Fingers crossed this is a Mark Henry in a salmon jacket kinda deal.
I'm guessing probably not. Just curious now if it's retirement from just the WWE or from all of wrestling.

 
Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.
Sadly, not Daniel Bryan.

Daniel Bryan@WWEDanielBryan 8m8 minutes ago
Due to medical reasons, effective immediately, I am announcing my retirement. Tonight on Raw, I'll have a chance to elaborate. #gratitude
Not surprising, but still very sad. :(

But yeah, the returns of many injured wrestlers along with the infusion of new talent from NXT and Japan could make for some good stuff later in the year.

 
Random WWE discussion at SB party last night came up with the following conclusion:

If, and it's a big if, if the WWE can pull something out of their ### for this WrestleMania, this will be the best year for wrestling in some time. The reason being is simple. Nothing is better in wrestling than the return from a long absence and the surprise return. And WWE has about a dozen bullets in that gun now.
Sadly, not Daniel Bryan.

Daniel Bryan@WWEDanielBryan 8m8 minutes ago
Due to medical reasons, effective immediately, I am announcing my retirement. Tonight on Raw, I'll have a chance to elaborate. #gratitude
Fingers crossed this is a Mark Henry in a salmon jacket kinda deal.
I'm guessing probably not. Just curious now if it's retirement from just the WWE or from all of wrestling.
I'd say he Edge done.

 
I think if it was a Mark Henry situation they would say something like "Daniel Bryan has an announcement to make tonight on Raw" to tease a retirement. That he's already announced his retirement makes me quite certain he's actually done. Ugh. That's going to be tough to watch.

 
May as well take the opportunity to get Kevin Owens more heat.

While Bryan's in ring WWE career may be over, I doubt it's the last time we see him in a WWE ring. Too much of a wrestling guy to just completely get away. I'm sure they'll find a role for him that he'll also enjoy.

 
What's the smarks angle for hating DB's retirement?....Do they hate it if the Authority calls him B+ and chides him...keeping in character....or do they hate it if they break kayfabe and tell him how great he is?

 
Not just because he's next to Titus Oneil but Adam Rose looks sickly thin.

I don't know how people get through these 3 hour Raws. Too bad they didn't put the Daniel Bryan segment at the beginning.

 
Walking a very fine line between tribute and crassly milking this crappy injury to prop up a rating on a sinking ship... oh yeah, don't forget your Daniel Bryan tribute goodbye shirt in the shopzone

 
This show is freaking awful....

too bad Bryan can't retire every week

Hey boys, HOW ABOUT A DAMN ANGLE?

HOW ABOUT ANYTHING?

RENEE IN SHORTS FOR 3 HOURS

ok Hendrixdust was funny, thats it

 
Raw Review:

First 3 hour Raw I've watched top to bottom in a long long time. Decent open to show. Steph's mic time was short (which is always wonderful). Lesnar dismantling was well done. If this wasn't a Daniel Bryan show, I'd have turned off the show for the night when Stephanie came out. Do they not know how to open a show any other way?

Jericho/Miz/Styles segment was solid. I think they've done well by AJ and limiting his mic time (and letting Jericho/Miz carry him there).

Thought the Ambrose/Lesnar segment atop Hour3 was pretty good. I think they did a great job of actually PLAYING TO the lunatic character they've tried to shove down our throats for months and months and months. Like they didn't go with a strictly go Face/Heel with Ambrose/Lesnar with Ambrose hitting a low blow.

:wub: Sasha Banks. Star written all over her. If any woman is capable of ever headlining a WWE 'PPV' card, I'd put my money on her.

Dudleys desperately needed to turn. Nice move pulling the trigger. Hard to really do a 'heel turn' against a tag team no one gives two ####s about (Usos)

Sad to see Daniel Bryan go but with all the concussion litigation WWE is dealing with, they simply couldnt put him out there. At least he's at peace with it and can move onto his next chapter of life. The guy reached a level in WWE that no one thought he could. Look forward to him going into the HOF.

3 hours is just too much. Just so much filler. Cut (at least) an hour off this show and it'd be so much better. Best thing WWE probably did tonight is putting Daniel Bryan last .....forcing people to watch the whole show. My opinion, but wrestling shows in 2016 should be an hour long. Even if you 'have to' put it on 2-3 times/week.

 
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You get a steady stream of 6 and 7 promo guys and you have gotten rid of the 2's and 3's on the mic but you've also cost yourself the 9's and 10's on the stick. And the 9's and 10's are the stars, the icons, the people that actually draw. Its the reason Flair is a constant meme, Dusty Rhodes, Macho and Piper were all trending when they died.
WWE is well past that. As has surely been said before me, WWE is all about the "Universe" now. The draw is no longer about the individual, but about the overall spectacle of a WWE event. That combined with the safe spot competitively speaking they are in, means truly developing a guy on the mic is no longer necessary. The only way WWE will ever see another 9 or 10 on the mic is if another Rock type guy with insane natural charisma stumbles upon their doorsteps. I can't rule that out, but it seems highly unlikely.

 
Well, with that speech, i no longer have any favorites in wrestling. First it was Eddie Guerrero dying suddenly, than Chris Benoit snapping, than CM Punk taking his ball and going home, finally Daniel Bryan is hanging up his boots. Not even mentioneing the guys from my youth.

It might not have been on his own terms, but at least Bryan is walking away from the ring under his own power and that's more than most can say anymore.

 
Well, with that speech, i no longer have any favorites in wrestling. First it was Eddie Guerrero dying suddenly, than Chris Benoit snapping, than CM Punk taking his ball and going home, finally Daniel Bryan is hanging up his boots. Not even mentioneing the guys from my youth.

It might not have been on his own terms, but at least Bryan is walking away from the ring under his own power and that's more than most can say anymore.
That's how I felt when flair retired.

 
"Maybe my brain wasn't as OK as I thought it was"

Bryan had spent months in an attempt to get cleared for a return to wrestling, but WWE concussion expert Dr. Joseph Maroon—you remember him from downplaying the role of CTE in professional football—has reportedly refused to give Bryan the O.K. to return despite Bryan getting cleared by his own doctors. Wrestling observers have reported Bryan—real name Bryan Danielson—underwent a new kind of concussion test that convinced the WWE superstar that his career should come to an end
:shock: When a CTE denier tells you you've had too many concussions...wow. Just wow.

 
Simple way to watch Raw---record it and then watch whole show in less than 15-20 minutes. I can't remember the last one I watched live.

 
"Maybe my brain wasn't as OK as I thought it was"

Bryan had spent months in an attempt to get cleared for a return to wrestling, but WWE concussion expert Dr. Joseph Maroon—you remember him from downplaying the role of CTE in professional football—has reportedly refused to give Bryan the O.K. to return despite Bryan getting cleared by his own doctors. Wrestling observers have reported Bryan—real name Bryan Danielson—underwent a new kind of concussion test that convinced the WWE superstar that his career should come to an end
:shock: When a CTE denier tells you you've had too many concussions...wow. Just wow.
I just hope with all the concussions he's had that he's able to live out a normal life. Said he had 3 concussions in his first 5 months in the business. That alone probably should have been enough. Then he'd have one "every now and then" since then. That was hard to hear. I'm sad but relieved that he's hanging them up.

I thought Raw was a pretty good show. AJ Styles had a good segment with Miz and Jericho. Ambrose/Reigns/Lesnar was good, especially Ambrose. The Dudley's heel turn was smart. Both have had their run against New Day and need something new.

I agree that 3 hours is too long for Raw, but of course they're not going to want to sacrifice the extra revenue, so we have to endure some filler. I find it's best to DVR it and start watching an hour after it starts.

 
The speech, Brie coming to the ring, the victory lap, Vince doing the Yes!! chant. All great stuff.

Will be really interesting to see what Bryan does now. I'm guessing between Brie and himself, they are worth about 8-10 million. For his lifestyle, that is more than enough, but I don't see Bryan just spending the rest of his days fishing and knocking up his wife (although that's not a bad gig). A backstage role for WWE doesn't seem just right either. Maybe he starts a school up in his hometown or starts up charity work.

 
As long as Brie is still employed by Titan Towers, I'm guessing DB has a job. It may be best to have him working to train the NXT guys for the bingo hall circuit and that charity Stephanie started. If you're looking for a face of the company to keep it family-friendly, you could do worse than DB.

I understand it's going to hurt not be able to wrestle anymore, but at some point he will have to deal with the emotion of not being able to do it anymore.

 
The speech, Brie coming to the ring, the victory lap, Vince doing the Yes!! chant. All great stuff.

Will be really interesting to see what Bryan does now. I'm guessing between Brie and himself, they are worth about 8-10 million. For his lifestyle, that is more than enough, but I don't see Bryan just spending the rest of his days fishing and knocking up his wife (although that's not a bad gig). A backstage role for WWE doesn't seem just right either. Maybe he starts a school up in his hometown or starts up charity work.
Perfect time to end this Authority Crap, make DB the commissioner the night after Wrestlemania. Let me come out every 3-4 or weeks and see if you can ween yourself off being so dependent on authority figures.

Actually, thinking about it, have Roman get the shot, and DEMAND as a stip that Bryan is made commish if he wins. If he loses, he will retire too. Might actually get him over

 
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This show is freaking awful....

too bad Bryan can't retire every week

Hey boys, HOW ABOUT A DAMN ANGLE?

HOW ABOUT ANYTHING?

RENEE IN SHORTS FOR 3 HOURS

ok Hendrixdust was funny, thats it
Stories told/advanced:

  • Brock vs Dean / Dean wanting to do it alone
  • Miz/Jericho/Styles trio building to Smackdown match
  • Del Rio pins Kalisto in a tag team match
  • Dudleys turn heel
Stuff everyone would love if it were NXT, but WWE apparently isn't allowed?

  • Charlotte squashes the #1 contender's friend
  • Two women's segments
  • Bray Wyatt semi-squashes Ryback as the Wyatt family continues to power up through domination in the ring (and not promos)
 
This show is freaking awful....

too bad Bryan can't retire every week

Hey boys, HOW ABOUT A DAMN ANGLE?

HOW ABOUT ANYTHING?

RENEE IN SHORTS FOR 3 HOURS

ok Hendrixdust was funny, thats it
Stories told/advanced:

  • Brock vs Dean / Dean wanting to do it alone
  • Miz/Jericho/Styles trio building to Smackdown match
  • Del Rio pins Kalisto in a tag team match
  • Dudleys turn heel
Stuff everyone would love if it were NXT, but WWE apparently isn't allowed?

  • Charlotte squashes the #1 contender's friend
  • Two women's segments
  • Bray Wyatt semi-squashes Ryback as the Wyatt family continues to power up through domination in the ring (and not promos)
I mostly agree with you JB. The Ambrose/Lesnar segments were great, and I'm liking how they are handling AJ Styles right now.

The Dudley heel(face?) turn was long overdue. Though we are in a weird place where the Usos are technically the #1 face team, but get nowhere near the face reaction of any of the top heel teams. Kinda wonder if the wrong team turned heel there.

I guess Del Rio-Kalisto was advanced. I think everyone wants that feud to be over. I'm guessing Del Rio gets the US title back, and the Lucha Dragons get a tag title match at Mania?

There should be at least 2 women's segments in every show, so that was good. I didn't see Charlotte as squashing Alicia Fox at all, that was a pretty 50-50 match until the finish. Likewise, Ryback dominated Bray the entire match, only to be hit be a quick(and 100% better than normal) sister abigail. Just semantics though, both segments were ok. Don't really get your NXT shade with those.

I'm kind of disappointed by the Owens-Ziggler matches every week. Which sucks, because I like them both, and I'm completely disinterested in these matches. They need to establish a reason for these to be happening. Are they trying to be #1 contender for the IC or US title? Do they REALLY hate each other, and if so, why? Kevin Owens was arguably the most interesting character in WWE last year, it feels like a giant waste to have him in these meaningless matches, even if objectively they are good matches.

Also, for as much crap as Adam Rose gets, is it just me, or does "radical mongoose" sound way better as a nickname then "lunatic fringe?"

 
This show is freaking awful....

too bad Bryan can't retire every week

Hey boys, HOW ABOUT A DAMN ANGLE?

HOW ABOUT ANYTHING?

RENEE IN SHORTS FOR 3 HOURS

ok Hendrixdust was funny, thats it
Stories told/advanced:

  • Brock vs Dean / Dean wanting to do it alone
  • Miz/Jericho/Styles trio building to Smackdown match
  • Del Rio pins Kalisto in a tag team match
  • Dudleys turn heel
Stuff everyone would love if it were NXT, but WWE apparently isn't allowed?

  • Charlotte squashes the #1 contender's friend
  • Two women's segments
  • Bray Wyatt semi-squashes Ryback as the Wyatt family continues to power up through domination in the ring (and not promos)
I mostly agree with you JB. The Ambrose/Lesnar segments were great, and I'm liking how they are handling AJ Styles right now.

The Dudley heel(face?) turn was long overdue. Though we are in a weird place where the Usos are technically the #1 face team, but get nowhere near the face reaction of any of the top heel teams. Kinda wonder if the wrong team turned heel there.

I guess Del Rio-Kalisto was advanced. I think everyone wants that feud to be over. I'm guessing Del Rio gets the US title back, and the Lucha Dragons get a tag title match at Mania?

There should be at least 2 women's segments in every show, so that was good. I didn't see Charlotte as squashing Alicia Fox at all, that was a pretty 50-50 match until the finish. Likewise, Ryback dominated Bray the entire match, only to be hit be a quick(and 100% better than normal) sister abigail. Just semantics though, both segments were ok. Don't really get your NXT shade with those.

I'm kind of disappointed by the Owens-Ziggler matches every week. Which sucks, because I like them both, and I'm completely disinterested in these matches. They need to establish a reason for these to be happening. Are they trying to be #1 contender for the IC or US title? Do they REALLY hate each other, and if so, why? Kevin Owens was arguably the most interesting character in WWE last year, it feels like a giant waste to have him in these meaningless matches, even if objectively they are good matches.

Also, for as much crap as Adam Rose gets, is it just me, or does "radical mongoose" sound way better as a nickname then "lunatic fringe?"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they faced each other on ever RAW since Rumble?

 
There should be at least 2 women's segments in every show, so that was good. I didn't see Charlotte as squashing Alicia Fox at all, that was a pretty 50-50 match until the finish. Likewise, Ryback dominated Bray the entire match, only to be hit be a quick(and 100% better than normal) sister abigail. Just semantics though, both segments were ok. Don't really get your NXT shade with those.
Not speaking for JB, but I took that to mean that if NXT did all that stuff he described as happening, people would've been overjoyed. But, because it's RAW, "nothing" (i.e., not enough) happened on the show. Again, that's me, not JB speaking.

 
There should be at least 2 women's segments in every show, so that was good. I didn't see Charlotte as squashing Alicia Fox at all, that was a pretty 50-50 match until the finish. Likewise, Ryback dominated Bray the entire match, only to be hit be a quick(and 100% better than normal) sister abigail. Just semantics though, both segments were ok. Don't really get your NXT shade with those.
Not speaking for JB, but I took that to mean that if NXT did all that stuff he described as happening, people would've been overjoyed. But, because it's RAW, "nothing" (i.e., not enough) happened on the show. Again, that's me, not JB speaking.
Correct. NXT is allowed to do squash matches. The Charlotte/Alicia Fox may have been fairly even during the match, but there was zero doubt that Charlotte was going to win. Same thing with Ryback/Wyatt. I'm perfectly fine with that, but I see complaints that "nothing's happening" and "these matches mean nothing."

NXT is applauded for giving the women mutliple segments. WWE tries to expand the women's division through multiple segments and angles, and it's boring.

I just think there's a double standard because people want to hate WWE and love everything else.

 
<p>

This show is freaking awful....

too bad Bryan can't retire every week

Hey boys, HOW ABOUT A DAMN ANGLE?

HOW ABOUT ANYTHING?

RENEE IN SHORTS FOR 3 HOURS

ok Hendrixdust was funny, thats it
Stories told/advanced:

  • Brock vs Dean / Dean wanting to do it alone
  • Miz/Jericho/Styles trio building to Smackdown match
  • Del Rio pins Kalisto in a tag team match
  • Dudleys turn heel
Stuff everyone would love if it were NXT, but WWE apparently isn't allowed?

  • Charlotte squashes the #1 contender's friend
  • Two women's segments
  • Bray Wyatt semi-squashes Ryback as the Wyatt family continues to power up through domination in the ring (and not promos)
:lmao: think I posted that before the Dudley's turn so yes that was an angle and a good one.

The triple threat has no good outcome, as it appears now. UNLESS we get Brock vs dean at mania. Then they have my attention. But I sense they're gonna flip dean, their most over face, to try to build roman.

Kalisto and Owens are two guys who've been spotlighted and did jobs for no reason. And jobs to guys who've been jobbed out. So now none of them are hot or have a reason to be mad.

True enough about the highlight reel but what can I say, I wrote that watching the show real time and in hour 3 and it was such a tedious watch.

On the while I can be ok with this. But when you think of the time, effort, energy, rewrites and stress that to into this product, it's crazy.

But positives, we DID get that close.

What can you say about Bryan. Magic. From the heart.

I wish there was just more of what was in that promo that everyone, that even non wrestling fans, are talking about today

 
The speech, Brie coming to the ring, the victory lap, Vince doing the Yes!! chant. All great stuff.

Will be really interesting to see what Bryan does now. I'm guessing between Brie and himself, they are worth about 8-10 million. For his lifestyle, that is more than enough, but I don't see Bryan just spending the rest of his days fishing and knocking up his wife (although that's not a bad gig). A backstage role for WWE doesn't seem just right either. Maybe he starts a school up in his hometown or starts up charity work.
Perfect time to end this Authority Crap, make DB the commissioner the night after Wrestlemania. Let me come out every 3-4 or weeks and see if you can ween yourself off being so dependent on authority figures.

Actually, thinking about it, have Roman get the shot, and DEMAND as a stip that Bryan is made commish if he wins. If he loses, he will retire too. Might actually get him over
I'd love to see him do a Mick Foley-esque commissioner role.

 
The speech, Brie coming to the ring, the victory lap, Vince doing the Yes!! chant. All great stuff.

Will be really interesting to see what Bryan does now. I'm guessing between Brie and himself, they are worth about 8-10 million. For his lifestyle, that is more than enough, but I don't see Bryan just spending the rest of his days fishing and knocking up his wife (although that's not a bad gig). A backstage role for WWE doesn't seem just right either. Maybe he starts a school up in his hometown or starts up charity work.
Perfect time to end this Authority Crap, make DB the commissioner the night after Wrestlemania. Let me come out every 3-4 or weeks and see if you can ween yourself off being so dependent on authority figures.

Actually, thinking about it, have Roman get the shot, and DEMAND as a stip that Bryan is made commish if he wins. If he loses, he will retire too. Might actually get him over
I'd love to see him do a Mick Foley-esque commissioner role.
I'd love to see him do Brie. :popcorn:

 
The speech, Brie coming to the ring, the victory lap, Vince doing the Yes!! chant. All great stuff.

Will be really interesting to see what Bryan does now. I'm guessing between Brie and himself, they are worth about 8-10 million. For his lifestyle, that is more than enough, but I don't see Bryan just spending the rest of his days fishing and knocking up his wife (although that's not a bad gig). A backstage role for WWE doesn't seem just right either. Maybe he starts a school up in his hometown or starts up charity work.
Perfect time to end this Authority Crap, make DB the commissioner the night after Wrestlemania. Let me come out every 3-4 or weeks and see if you can ween yourself off being so dependent on authority figures.

Actually, thinking about it, have Roman get the shot, and DEMAND as a stip that Bryan is made commish if he wins. If he loses, he will retire too. Might actually get him over
I'd love to see him do a Mick Foley-esque commissioner role.
As amazing as he was last night, I think Bryan is much better with the "shoot" promo over the "work" promo. Seeing him ham it up each week in a suit and tie (or some flannel version of it) just wouldn't sit right with me. And there would always be tension/anticipation of him taking any bump as the heels try to push him around.

Have him and Brie get a winter home in Florida and they can both train new talent at NXT when they feel like it.

 
The speech, Brie coming to the ring, the victory lap, Vince doing the Yes!! chant. All great stuff.

Will be really interesting to see what Bryan does now. I'm guessing between Brie and himself, they are worth about 8-10 million. For his lifestyle, that is more than enough, but I don't see Bryan just spending the rest of his days fishing and knocking up his wife (although that's not a bad gig). A backstage role for WWE doesn't seem just right either. Maybe he starts a school up in his hometown or starts up charity work.
Perfect time to end this Authority Crap, make DB the commissioner the night after Wrestlemania. Let me come out every 3-4 or weeks and see if you can ween yourself off being so dependent on authority figures.

Actually, thinking about it, have Roman get the shot, and DEMAND as a stip that Bryan is made commish if he wins. If he loses, he will retire too. Might actually get him over
I'd love to see him do a Mick Foley-esque commissioner role.
As amazing as he was last night, I think Bryan is much better with the "shoot" promo over the "work" promo. Seeing him ham it up each week in a suit and tie (or some flannel version of it) just wouldn't sit right with me. And there would always be tension/anticipation of him taking any bump as the heels try to push him around.

Have him and Brie get a winter home in Florida and they can both train new talent at NXT when they feel like it.
Yeah, I'm not really feeling DB as a face authority figure. It's just not his personality.

Based on his book, I don't think training is his thing either.

Special ambassador type with occasional pop ins (e.g. Mania pre-show; legend panels; etc) and baby creating/raising time.

 
Jack Tunney used to be seen.... 3-5 times per year in the old WWF. Had credibility though and when you saw him you knew it was a big deal. I want to see Bryan in the same role in a work scenario (allowing maybe for more frequent visits given either his wife's employment OR the great volume of TV hours).

Just don't build the show around a person who isn't working pulling the strings, but have someone CREDIBLE who can mediate debates and up the ante on angles

 

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