***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (12 Viewers)

[Jeremy]

Bryan beats roman at fast lane...

Mania's 7 matches:

Bryan v Brock (Rollins cashes after Bryan wins)

Rollins v Ambrose

Wyatt v taker

HHH and show v sting and roman

Cena v rusev

Ziggler v bnb

Usos v ascension

Miz v sindow (dark)

Harper v ryback (dark)

Here's how I see it:

Lesnar vs Reigns for WWE Title

Cena vs Rusev II for US Title (something will happen at Fastlane to intensify the feud. Maybe Rusev goes over clean)

Ambros vs Barrett for IC Title

Usos vs Ascension for Tag Titles

Nikki vs Brie vs Paige vs Natalia in fatal 4 way for women's title. Maybe Brie finally gets revenge on Nikki for her treatment months ago.

Rollins vs Orton

Bryan vs Ziggler (I don't know how, but that's the rumor)

Sting vs HHH

Wyatt vs Taker

Miz vs Sandow

Ryback vs Big Show

Is that too many matches?

 

[Jeremy]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Fair enough. I just wish the smarks could sometimes just relax and enjoy the show. Sit back and let them tell us a story instead of trying to sabotage what they're trying to do. Cheer your favorites and stay silent for the talent you don't like. They'll get the message.

You know for as rebellious as those fans fancy themselves to be, they're pretty much as predictable as a partisan politician. There's not really much independent thought within the group.

Daniel Bryan = God

Ziggler - Being held down by "the man"

Cena - Sucks (even though he clearly doesn't)

Almost anything on the Indy Circuit or NXT - good (gotta get in on the ground floor for the next big thing)

Usos-boring (I think they're fun)

Reigns-Bad

ECW-The good old days (Sandman makes Reigns look like Eddie Guerrero)

Rollins-awesome (they're right about that, but let's let him be a heel. He's great at it.)

Cesaro-also being held down by the man (he's boring, IMO)

 

[Jeremy]

I always feel a little guilty for not being more of a Cena fan.

He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.

He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.

I'm not sure there's a harder worker.

You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.

From what I gather from the various podcasts there isn't a person in the business that doesn't have the utmost respect for him both as a person and a performer. HHH said on the Stone Cold's podcast that he's the first to arrive and the last to leave. He puts as much into his performance at house shows that he does for the PPVs from what I've heard.

I really don't get the hate. I'm a fan.

 

[GoFishTN]

I always feel a little guilty for not being more of a Cena fan.

He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.

He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.

I'm not sure there's a harder worker.

You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.

From what I gather from the various podcasts there isn't a person in the business that doesn't have the utmost respect for him both as a person and a performer. HHH said on the Stone Cold's podcast that he's the first to arrive and the last to leave. He puts as much into his performance at house shows that he does for the PPVs from what I've heard.

I really don't get the hate. I'm a fan.

They're too overexposed now. People get tired of seeing the same guys and in Cena's case, the same guy winning all the time. Find the Royal Rumble where he is a surprise entrant at #30. Absence does make the heart grow fonder.

 

[RBM]

Cena is the main reason I skipped like 2004-2012 until the Punk stuff.

I just could never take him serious. The look, the rapper crap which then turned into the nauseating superhero gimmick now. I think he's the most bland, stale character in wrestling history. Guys much better than him changed their character to refresh but this ###### can't?

Just take the Wyatt feud from last year. Wyatt was on fire coming into it, and he was completely buried. Even in his one win, it was probably the worst cage match I've ever seen, plus Cena basically defeated all 3 guys single handedly before that little kid showed up. And Wyatt was in no mans land after that and is just now coming back to life. Cena had no reason to win that feud... It did nothing for him and it stunted the growth of a guy that could've been a huge huge star by now. And guess what, it's about to happen to Rusev now.

He sucks.

 

[HellToupee]

Cena is the main reason I skipped like 2004-2012 until the Punk stuff.

I just could never take him serious. The look, the rapper crap which then turned into the nauseating superhero gimmick now. I think he's the most bland, stale character in wrestling history. Guys much better than him changed their character to refresh but this ###### can't?

Just take the Wyatt feud from last year. Wyatt was on fire coming into it, and he was completely buried. Even in his one win, it was probably the worst cage match I've ever seen, plus Cena basically defeated all 3 guys single handedly before that little kid showed up. And Wyatt was in no mans land after that and is just now coming back to life. Cena had no reason to win that feud... It did nothing for him and it stunted the growth of a guy that could've been a huge huge star by now. And guess what, it's about to happen to Rusev now.

He sucks.

don't sugarcoat it , tell us how you really feel

 

[Tom Servo]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.
I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

I'm meh on Reigns - after all, I don't believe it's his fault he's being pushed like that (it would be interesting if you could get him to shoot what he'd say).

UW was kind of a case all his own. Dude had the entrance music, the energy and a wild style that fans grabbed onto. He was never going to make you forget Buddy Rogers, but if you re-watch that IC title match against the Honky Tonk Man (all 33 seconds of it), that crowd exploded with one of the largest pops I've ever heard.

Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.

UW's win over HTM and his feud with Rick Rude are what set him up for the title run. Those are the missing ingredients to Reigns here. He still needs to bake. He's not ready yet.

Since they're really feeding into the fact that he's family with the Rock, why not completely steal from him, ala "Die Rocky Die!" Have Reigns feed into the boos and the hate and turn heel.

Oh, definitely you could see that UW was on a fast track to the top. What surprised me was that Hogan actually did job to the UW.

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

 

[Tom Servo]

I always feel a little guilty for not being more of a Cena fan.

He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.

He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.

I'm not sure there's a harder worker.

You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.

From what I gather from the various podcasts there isn't a person in the business that doesn't have the utmost respect for him both as a person and a performer. HHH said on the Stone Cold's podcast that he's the first to arrive and the last to leave. He puts as much into his performance at house shows that he does for the PPVs from what I've heard.

I really don't get the hate. I'm a fan.

Speaking for myself, I can respect Cena's work ethic and abilities; like GoFish, I am sick and tired of seeing him go over everybody. When was the last time he lost a feud? It was the same reason I couldn't stand Hogan back in the day; he never, ever lost to anyone...Indianapolis to Andre the Giant notwithstanding.

If you want me to buy in, have him lose every once in a while - and lose clean. You could run a program where he's on a "losing streak" and use it to get psychological on Cena, to see if he can rebound.

 

[Jeremy]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.
I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

I'm meh on Reigns - after all, I don't believe it's his fault he's being pushed like that (it would be interesting if you could get him to shoot what he'd say).

UW was kind of a case all his own. Dude had the entrance music, the energy and a wild style that fans grabbed onto. He was never going to make you forget Buddy Rogers, but if you re-watch that IC title match against the Honky Tonk Man (all 33 seconds of it), that crowd exploded with one of the largest pops I've ever heard.

Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.

UW's win over HTM and his feud with Rick Rude are what set him up for the title run. Those are the missing ingredients to Reigns here. He still needs to bake. He's not ready yet.

Since they're really feeding into the fact that he's family with the Rock, why not completely steal from him, ala "Die Rocky Die!" Have Reigns feed into the boos and the hate and turn heel.

Oh, definitely you could see that UW was on a fast track to the top. What surprised me was that Hogan actually did job to the UW.

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

You all may be right, but I still don't see a good alternative challenger to Lesnar. I just think Bryan stretches the limits of believability a little too much, even by pro wrestling standards. Lesnar would just need to squeeze his fingers together and pop him like he's a pimple. They've already done Cena with him several times. Who else is there?

 

[Gawain]

I always feel a little guilty for not being more of a Cena fan.

He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.

He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.

I'm not sure there's a harder worker.

You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.

From what I gather from the various podcasts there isn't a person in the business that doesn't have the utmost respect for him both as a person and a performer. HHH said on the Stone Cold's podcast that he's the first to arrive and the last to leave. He puts as much into his performance at house shows that he does for the PPVs from what I've heard.

I really don't get the hate. I'm a fan.

Speaking for myself, I can respect Cena's work ethic and abilities; like GoFish, I am sick and tired of seeing him go over everybody. When was the last time he lost a feud? It was the same reason I couldn't stand Hogan back in the day; he never, ever lost to anyone...Indianapolis to Andre the Giant notwithstanding.

If you want me to buy in, have him lose every once in a while - and lose clean. You could run a program where he's on a "losing streak" and use it to get psychological on Cena, to see if he can rebound.

I don't see this at all (though I do get the over exposure bit). Look no further than the Suplex Saga that occurred not too long ago.

Rollins has a couple wins over him (Cena has many more. It's impressive how many times these guys have worked together over the past 3 months, 29 times since 1-Dec-14)

It'd be nice if the feud with Rusev makes his absence at the top felt a little and when he reenters the title picture after Wrestlemania it's a little fresher.

 

[Jeremy]

I always feel a little guilty for not being more of a Cena fan.

He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.

He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.

I'm not sure there's a harder worker.

You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.

From what I gather from the various podcasts there isn't a person in the business that doesn't have the utmost respect for him both as a person and a performer. HHH said on the Stone Cold's podcast that he's the first to arrive and the last to leave. He puts as much into his performance at house shows that he does for the PPVs from what I've heard.

I really don't get the hate. I'm a fan.

Speaking for myself, I can respect Cena's work ethic and abilities; like GoFish, I am sick and tired of seeing him go over everybody. When was the last time he lost a feud? It was the same reason I couldn't stand Hogan back in the day; he never, ever lost to anyone...Indianapolis to Andre the Giant notwithstanding.

If you want me to buy in, have him lose every once in a while - and lose clean. You could run a program where he's on a "losing streak" and use it to get psychological on Cena, to see if he can rebound.

Hasn't there always been that guy, though? I struggle to remember a time where Austin or the Rock lost cleanly while they were babyfaces. I'm sure it's happened, but I don't think it's happened any more often than with Cena. Didn't Cena get his ### kicked by Lesner just a few months ago? He jobbed cleanly to Daniel Bryan last year, IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if Rusev goes over on him at Fastlane too.

 

[OC Zed]

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

This would have been a great idea if the WWE still placed some importance in the secondary titles. The IC title wasn't even on the main card two years ago at WM (Miz dark match) and I don't think the US title has been defended for years at WM.

 

[RBM]

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

This would have been a great idea if the WWE still placed some importance in the secondary titles. The IC title wasn't even on the main card two years ago at WM (Miz dark match) and I don't think the US title has been defended for years at WM.

IC title was not defended at last year's WM.

Hate what they have done to it. I'm hoping an Ambrose run with it will restore credibility.

 

[Jeremy]

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

This would have been a great idea if the WWE still placed some importance in the secondary titles. The IC title wasn't even on the main card two years ago at WM (Miz dark match) and I don't think the US title has been defended for years at WM.

IC title was not defended at last year's WM.

Hate what they have done to it. I'm hoping an Ambrose run with it will restore credibility.

It's become almost a curse. More often than not the IC champ becomes a jobber for main event talent in non title matches. Rusev may be elevating the US belt, though. Neither belt seems to be defended very often.

 

[OC Zed]

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

This would have been a great idea if the WWE still placed some importance in the secondary titles. The IC title wasn't even on the main card two years ago at WM (Miz dark match) and I don't think the US title has been defended for years at WM.

IC title was not defended at last year's WM.

Hate what they have done to it. I'm hoping an Ambrose run with it will restore credibility.

It's become almost a curse. More often than not the IC champ becomes a jobber for main event talent in non title matches. Rusev may be elevating the US belt, though. Neither belt seems to be defended very often.

I'd prefer they just do away with the US title altogether and restore prominence to the IC title.

 

[Jeremy]

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

This would have been a great idea if the WWE still placed some importance in the secondary titles. The IC title wasn't even on the main card two years ago at WM (Miz dark match) and I don't think the US title has been defended for years at WM.

IC title was not defended at last year's WM.

Hate what they have done to it. I'm hoping an Ambrose run with it will restore credibility.

It's become almost a curse. More often than not the IC champ becomes a jobber for main event talent in non title matches. Rusev may be elevating the US belt, though. Neither belt seems to be defended very often.

I'd prefer they just do away with the US title altogether and restore prominence to the IC title.

I agree. I though they were talking about unifying the 2 belts around the time they did unify the WWE Title with the old WCW belt.

 

[D in the D]

Bray vs. Undertaker makes sense. Slow, plodding match full of mental games. Bray can protect Taker and doesn't get hurt at all putting Taker over.

Then next year in Dallas, Taker doesn't wrestle but you do an entrance and retirement speech in front of the home crowd.

And then you have Pete Rose come in to congratulate Taker. Boom, Tombstone.

 

[GoFishTN]

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

This would have been a great idea if the WWE still placed some importance in the secondary titles. The IC title wasn't even on the main card two years ago at WM (Miz dark match) and I don't think the US title has been defended for years at WM.

The secondary title is very important. Rollins is doing great with it.

 

[SlaX]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.
I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

I'm meh on Reigns - after all, I don't believe it's his fault he's being pushed like that (it would be interesting if you could get him to shoot what he'd say).

UW was kind of a case all his own. Dude had the entrance music, the energy and a wild style that fans grabbed onto. He was never going to make you forget Buddy Rogers, but if you re-watch that IC title match against the Honky Tonk Man (all 33 seconds of it), that crowd exploded with one of the largest pops I've ever heard.

Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.

UW's win over HTM and his feud with Rick Rude are what set him up for the title run. Those are the missing ingredients to Reigns here. He still needs to bake. He's not ready yet.

Since they're really feeding into the fact that he's family with the Rock, why not completely steal from him, ala "Die Rocky Die!" Have Reigns feed into the boos and the hate and turn heel.

Oh, definitely you could see that UW was on a fast track to the top. What surprised me was that Hogan actually did job to the UW.

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

Timing is the big reason for that. Hogan was in his actor phase at that point. Rumors around that time were that he was looking to possibly retire from wrestling to pursue acting full time. I don't know what his true intentions were, but he was supposed to be gone for longer and was brought back when box numbers were low. Wrestlemania VI was the last big gate from that time period. Even bringing Hulkamania back to take down a GI Joe turned Iraqi sympathizer [slaughter] failed. Surprising was that Warrior stole the show at that Wrestlemania thanks to the Macho Man's perfect match planning. It's too bad the WWE doesn't have someone like Macho anymore who can carefully script out a match like that to compliment Reigns. Although I prefer the old school method of calling matches on the fly, Macho always had a way of making it work.

I would have preferred Reigns be IC or US champion rather than being shot to the top. Maybe give both he and Rusev more time to be bad asses with an impressive singles win streak and allow Reigns to be first to put Rusev down around Summerslam or Survivor Series. THEN, let him win the Rumble. Hey, it worked for Goldberg! (yet another green wrestler that won a World Title).

 

[SlaX]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.
I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

I'm meh on Reigns - after all, I don't believe it's his fault he's being pushed like that (it would be interesting if you could get him to shoot what he'd say).

UW was kind of a case all his own. Dude had the entrance music, the energy and a wild style that fans grabbed onto. He was never going to make you forget Buddy Rogers, but if you re-watch that IC title match against the Honky Tonk Man (all 33 seconds of it), that crowd exploded with one of the largest pops I've ever heard.

Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.

UW's win over HTM and his feud with Rick Rude are what set him up for the title run. Those are the missing ingredients to Reigns here. He still needs to bake. He's not ready yet.

Since they're really feeding into the fact that he's family with the Rock, why not completely steal from him, ala "Die Rocky Die!" Have Reigns feed into the boos and the hate and turn heel.

Oh, definitely you could see that UW was on a fast track to the top. What surprised me was that Hogan actually did job to the UW.

I do agree that Reigns needs more time - I have found it odd that he didn't get that run as a secondary title holder that is the WWE's SOP. Everyone who achieved some measure of WWE title fame did time as the I-C champ first.

You all may be right, but I still don't see a good alternative challenger to Lesnar. I just think Bryan stretches the limits of believability a little too much, even by pro wrestling standards. Lesnar would just need to squeeze his fingers together and pop him like he's a pimple. They've already done Cena with him several times. Who else is there?

I see the line of thinking here, but the only thing I want to ask is how Lesnar is that far off from defeating HHH, then defeating both Randy Orton AND Batista in the same night last year to great fan fare. Keep in mind that he never lost the title too. Little Mac can beat Tyson!

 

[Ghost Rider]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

 

[Thunderlips]

While I'm one who's in the "fans should go easier on the WWE for the Reigns push".......the guy has been around since 2012. If he hasn't improved on the mic and in the ring(and I don't think he's horrible in the ring) in three years.....he probably shouldn't be getting the push. Someone above put him in the same situation as Rusev....to me it's a no brainer....Rusev is a better wrestler/character and is more dominant. If Reigns couldn't talk.....they probably should have gotten him a manager.

 

[RBM]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

DiBiase put on some good matches as well.

 

[RBM]

While I'm one who's in the "fans should go easier on the WWE for the Reigns push".......the guy has been around since 2012. If he hasn't improved on the mic and in the ring(and I don't think he's horrible in the ring) in three years.....he probably shouldn't be getting the push. Someone above put him in the same situation as Rusev....to me it's a no brainer....Rusev is a better wrestler/character and is more dominant. If Reigns couldn't talk.....they probably should have gotten him a manager.

The annoying part is how they've protected him, knowing he's not up to snuff. Watch any of the Shield matches and see Rollins and Ambrose in for most of the match. Reigns would always get the hot tag and do his thing. If you heard the Punk interview, he said when he was going out for his 1 on 3 matches vs The Shield, multiple people approached him beforehand and had one thing to tell him...."Make Roman look good".

And when they made their decision to skyrocket him, he still barely worked. I know he had the injury but he's had one major singles match. He should have been working every Raw and Smackdown since his return. I don't think the dude has ever even main evented Raw in a singles match.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

And Dynamite Kid says hello from his wheelchair.

 

[Brady Marino]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

X

Rude was ok, but he always supplied the heat...it was up to his opponent to bring the actual good work. For instance, I wouldn't call Jake "great" (very good, but not Savage/Steamboat/Hennig level) but he had to carry Rude in their big feud.

Late 80s wasn't known as a high workrate era, but there were some decent hands during that time period.

 

[ScottNorwood]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

 

[GoFishTN]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

X

Rude was ok, but he always supplied the heat...it was up to his opponent to bring the actual good work. For instance, I wouldn't call Jake "great" (very good, but not Savage/Steamboat/Hennig level) but he had to carry Rude in their big feud.

Late 80s wasn't known as a high workrate era, but there were some decent hands during that time period.

Rude was much, much better in his 2nd WCW run.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

X

Rude was ok, but he always supplied the heat...it was up to his opponent to bring the actual good work. For instance, I wouldn't call Jake "great" (very good, but not Savage/Steamboat/Hennig level) but he had to carry Rude in their big feud.

Late 80s wasn't known as a high workrate era, but there were some decent hands during that time period.

Rude was much, much better in his 2nd WCW run.

Very true. I was never overly impressed with Rude as an in-ring worker until that second WCW run (early 90s). His feud with Steamboat was fantastic. And I know people will say that Steamboat could carry anyone to a good match, but Rude really held his own. He put on good matches with Sting too.

 

[SlaX]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

It's odd to see his name with the others listed #1 throughout the years. I know many people who don't think he even deserved to be a Horseman. For me, I enjoyed watching him work. But I don't see him go higher than US champion.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

Interesting. If anything, Dean was probably hampered because he didn't look weird enough. Then again, looking like an accountant or dentist is weird looking by pro wrestling standards so you probably do have a point.

It's not like Dean was The French Angel in the looks department.

 

[RBM]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

#876.....ARM BAR

 

[ScottNorwood]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

#876.....ARM BAR

That's gotta be one of the top 5 all time feuds

 

[Thunderlips]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

Stinko Malenko? I didn't realize he was that renowned.

 

[Brady Marino]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

There are many others that I thought deserved a title run in that time period (Scott Hall comes to mind). I never viewed him as a main eventer like I did Benoit.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

Nah. He was slotted where he belonged IMO.

 

[GoFishTN]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

That list is such a weird mix of kayfabe and reality.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

DiBiase put on some good matches as well.

Absolutely. Plus, he was the perfect heel.

I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.

I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?

Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.

Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.

Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).

Rick Rude and Curt Hennig say hello from the grave.

X

Rude was ok, but he always supplied the heat...it was up to his opponent to bring the actual good work. For instance, I wouldn't call Jake "great" (very good, but not Savage/Steamboat/Hennig level) but he had to carry Rude in their big feud.

Late 80s wasn't known as a high workrate era, but there were some decent hands during that time period.

I disagree. Rude was great in the ring. Go watch that SummerSlam '89 with the Warrior. That match was beyond awesome, and Rude being such a good worker was the main reason why.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Rude was a good worker in the ring. Not Savage/Steamboat level, but definitely above average. I personally enjoyed his WCW work more but also liked his work with Roberts & Warrior.

 

[Bobcat10]

Do wrestlers have title runs, of any kind, written into their contracts?

 

[RBM]

Man I am way into NXT right now. Now I never watched ROH or NJPW or any Indy wrestling, so I've never seen these guys until now, but man, these guys are so ridiculously good. This Finn Balor may be the best talent in NXT AND WWE. Itami and Neville and Zayn too, ridiculous. And I'm so pumped to see this dude Owens next week.

And the crowds really remind me of the old ECW crowds with the chanting. Great product.

 

[Tom Servo]

While I'm one who's in the "fans should go easier on the WWE for the Reigns push".......the guy has been around since 2012. If he hasn't improved on the mic and in the ring(and I don't think he's horrible in the ring) in three years.....he probably shouldn't be getting the push. Someone above put him in the same situation as Rusev....to me it's a no brainer....Rusev is a better wrestler/character and is more dominant. If Reigns couldn't talk.....they probably should have gotten him a manager.

The usual SOP is for heels to have managers - especially when they can't handle the mic work. Arnold Skaaland isn't walking through that door.

 

[Tom Servo]

Do wrestlers have title runs, of any kind, written into their contracts?

Not that I'm aware of. There may be wink-wink-nudge-nudge arrangements, but it's probably always dependent on circumstances.

 

[Tom Servo]

Lucha Underground had four matches this week instead of the usual three.

It was interesting to see the work in the Cage - Mundo match. King Cuerna (BTW - I love the deer head hat) interfered, not necessarily to help Cage, but because he was hunting Mundo. Cage starts to walk away, and then the GM comes out and orders the match restarted. That was a nice bit of match psychology - to turn the match from one where Mundo was a slight underdog to one where he was a significant (i.e., badly hurt) underdog.

Plus, Fenix got a kiss from Catrina. Hubba hubba.

 

[Jeremy]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

There's a perfect example of the disconnect between the fans that want "wrestling" and those that want "entertainment". Great in the ring, but very plain. I wonder what the internet marks would think of him.

 

[D in the D]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

#876.....ARM BAR

I love the fact that they cut to commercial, came back, and he was still reading from the list. I can only imagine what was going on in the venue during the commercial break.

 

[Peak]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

#876.....ARM BAR

That's gotta be one of the top 5 all time feuds

Loved the Jericho/Angry Midget fued! One of the best ones WCW had that wasn't NWO related.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

#876.....ARM BAR

That's gotta be one of the top 5 all time feuds

Loved the Jericho/Angry Midget fued! One of the best ones WCW had that wasn't NWO related.

Speaking of WCW feuds involving angry midgets, I was also a fan of the Kevin Sullivan-Chris Benoit feud. You could feel the legitimate bad blood the two had for each other in their interviews and in the ring. Very stiff matches.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

#876.....ARM BAR

I love the fact that they cut to commercial, came back, and he was still reading from the list. I can only imagine what was going on in the venue during the commercial break.

Jericho talked about that on someone's podcast a few years ago. He said he was reading the list the whole time they were at break.

 

[D in the D]

In 1997 Dean Malenko was rated the #1 wrestler in PWI Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#PWI_500

Did the guy deserve a world title run, or was he too little, weird-looking and stoic for the big stage? Discuss.

Not necessarily a world title type guy, but definitely a TV title or some other second tier for sure. Unfortunately, he was lumped into a group of workers dubbed the "Vanilla Midgets" by Nash, Hall, et al. who had much of the stroke at the time.