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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
- Start date
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
They finally realized he wasn't worth what they were paying him. Which was a huge sum of money. He was making $350k in 2013.And they're right. W/o marketing and other sources of revenue coming from his presence, he isn't/wasn't worth that. The shocking part is they actually made a BUSINESS decision. And didn't sit on the fact AJ had been with the company for 10+ years (and paid handsomely at that.....like many of the older TNA guys).
He isn't/wasn't worth the $200k to TNA offered him before he left. No one in that company is worth that w/o marketing, merch, limited/no PPVs, limited/no live events. An existence of doing shows in front of people that don't pay TNA to get into isn't going to go far.
TNA is dead. Dixie has no business in wrestling.They're only going to continue to bleed away her daddy's money. Guess it's worth it to him just to keep Dixie away and occupied.
There's a reason AJ's body is beat to #### right now. He's working many many more dates on the indy scene for that money than he did with TNA. Kudos to the guy to getting a big WWE deal. It's probably the best thing that could happen to him. Indy scene is a tough way to earn a living. Especially for a 38 year old expected to put forth 30+ minute matches week in and out.
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Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Nice botchamania moment with Vince after Sheamus hit the Brogue Kick. 
Vince on his feet just stares at Sheamus after the Brogue kick. Then suddenly collapses and Scott Armstrong comes down to count. Got to rewatch if you missed it.
Vince on his feet just stares at Sheamus after the Brogue kick. Then suddenly collapses and Scott Armstrong comes down to count.
Got to rewatch if you missed it.
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Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
It was an ECW reference. I should've updated it to say "Capella University wannabe gyms".I think NXT must have banged Tom's girlfriend or something. Such disgust. #bingohalls
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Nice botchamania moment with Vince after Sheamus hit the Brogue Kick.
Vince on his feet just stares at Sheamus after the Brogue kick. Then suddenly collapses and Scott Armstrong comes down to count.
rewatching now... two things strike me....1. exactly what you said... but I can't even fathom what the booking of that was SUPPOSED to be... vince had to be up for the spear to walk into the boot... did Armstrong miss his cue?
2. How exactly is Roman booked as a face? He's beating the piss out of a 70 year old (no matter how jacked and how evil) and cuffing around a woman...HHH is really in the face role making the save
I know they are in some kind of post modern, there are no heels or faces, only characters, but you are somewhat inhibited by the constraints of your talent to act and the history of the "art form" you are putting forth. You kind of need heels and faces.... Greek Tragedy wasn't littered with tweeners.
Also don't like the "I'm doing it for my daughter" motivation given to Roman, which is a direct lift of the Owens schtick, which given his nature I'm guessing he came up with.
They're trying some kind of reheated Stone cold gimmick, can you imagine Stone cold ever stopping to say "I'm doing this for my daughter". The revolutionary part of his gimmick was he appeared to not even care about the title just fighting
Bogart
Footballguy
The dynamic between Roman and the Authority doesn’t work. There are no stakes involved in keeping Roman so they should just strip him and fire him if they hate him so much, and that’s really it. Why keep doing these unfair title matches and stipulations to give Roman a chance? Even their nuke, putting Roman in the Royal Rumble and making it for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, is engineered to give Roman a come from behind win.Nice botchamania moment with Vince after Sheamus hit the Brogue Kick.
Vince on his feet just stares at Sheamus after the Brogue kick. Then suddenly collapses and Scott Armstrong comes down to count.
1. exactly what you said... but I can't even fathom what the booking of that was SUPPOSED to be... vince had to be up for the spear to walk into the boot... did Armstrong miss his cue?
2. How exactly is Roman booked as a face? He's beating the piss out of a 70 year old (no matter how jacked and how evil) and cuffing around a woman...HHH is really in the face role making the save
I know they are in some kind of post modern, there are no heels or faces, only characters, but you are somewhat inhibited by the constraints of your talent to act and the history of the "art form" you are putting forth. You kind of need heels and faces.... Greek Tragedy wasn't littered with tweeners.
Also don't like the "I'm doing it for my daughter" motivation given to Roman, which is a direct lift of the Owens schtick, which given his nature I'm guessing he came up with.
They're trying some kind of reheated Stone cold gimmick, can you imagine Stone cold ever stopping to say "I'm doing this for my daughter". The revolutionary part of his gimmick was he appeared to not even care about the title just fighting
Maybe I’m looking for too many loopholes instead of “just enjoying the show,” but man, if you don’t want the guy to be champion, take the belt away from him. Going through these heel authority motions to get it off him only works when you’re trying to keep up appearances that you’re NOT an evil character, right? You put Austin in unfair matches because you aren’t the “bad guy,” you’re just doing your job, even though you’re totally the bad guy and are manipulating things from behind the scenes.
If you’re on TV getting arrested for being aggressively evil, or you’re Triple H and Stephanie in the ring announcing that you’re the villains, what’s the point of pretending? What are you getting from it? Just say “we’re stripping Roman of the title for punching the owner of the company, punching the COO and threatening Stephanie a bunch, he doesn’t ever get another title shot and if he’s unhappy about that, he can find another job.” Don’t say, “I’m so mad at you, Roman, here’s another chance for you to win! Here, let me help you.” Be a jerk, just don’t be self-defeating.
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Village Idiot
Pokerguy
Brock doesn't need to go through the Rumble but, imagine the pop if he did come out last.Brock doesn't need to go through the Rumble. He simply gets a shot if he demands one.That reminds me, did anyone else notice Vince using one of his own taboo words? He actually said "that's my championship BELT". My understanding is that he doesn't allow the wrestlers to call it a belt, but rather a "championship".
That's a good list, but my money is on Lesnar to win the Royal Rumble, though I haven't heard if he's booked on the show or not.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I think HHH is gonna win the rumble in a screw job, as the number 30 entrant. He takes the belt to mania where Roman gets a Wrestlemania momentThe dynamic between Roman and the Authority doesn’t work. There are no stakes involved in keeping Roman so they should just strip him and fire him if they hate him so much, and that’s really it. Why keep doing these unfair title matches and stipulations to give Roman a chance? Even their nuke, putting Roman in the Royal Rumble and making it for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, is engineered to give Roman a come from behind win.Nice botchamania moment with Vince after Sheamus hit the Brogue Kick.
Vince on his feet just stares at Sheamus after the Brogue kick. Then suddenly collapses and Scott Armstrong comes down to count.
1. exactly what you said... but I can't even fathom what the booking of that was SUPPOSED to be... vince had to be up for the spear to walk into the boot... did Armstrong miss his cue?
2. How exactly is Roman booked as a face? He's beating the piss out of a 70 year old (no matter how jacked and how evil) and cuffing around a woman...HHH is really in the face role making the save
I know they are in some kind of post modern, there are no heels or faces, only characters, but you are somewhat inhibited by the constraints of your talent to act and the history of the "art form" you are putting forth. You kind of need heels and faces.... Greek Tragedy wasn't littered with tweeners.
Also don't like the "I'm doing it for my daughter" motivation given to Roman, which is a direct lift of the Owens schtick, which given his nature I'm guessing he came up with.
They're trying some kind of reheated Stone cold gimmick, can you imagine Stone cold ever stopping to say "I'm doing this for my daughter". The revolutionary part of his gimmick was he appeared to not even care about the title just fighting
Maybe I’m looking for too many loopholes instead of “just enjoying the show,” but man, if you don’t want the guy to be champion, take the belt away from him. Going through these heel authority motions to get it off him only works when you’re trying to keep up appearances that you’re NOT an evil character, right? You put Austin in unfair matches because you aren’t the “bad guy,” you’re just doing your job, even though you’re totally the bad guy and are manipulating things from behind the scenes.
If you’re on TV getting arrested for being aggressively evil, or you’re Triple H and Stephanie in the ring announcing that you’re the villains, what’s the point of pretending? What are you getting from it? Just say “we’re stripping Roman of the title for punching the owner of the company, punching the COO and threatening Stephanie a bunch, he doesn’t ever get another title shot and if he’s unhappy about that, he can find another job.” Don’t say, “I’m so mad at you, Roman, here’s another chance for you to win! Here, let me help you.” Be a jerk, just don’t be self-defeating.
Bogart
Footballguy
I like that thought. There is no doubt in my mind that Reigns gets screwed at the Rumble and they do a full Daniel Bryan screw over for the weeks until WM.I think HHH is gonna win the rumble in a screw job, as the number 30 entrant. He takes the belt to mania where Roman gets a Wrestlemania momentThe dynamic between Roman and the Authority doesn’t work. There are no stakes involved in keeping Roman so they should just strip him and fire him if they hate him so much, and that’s really it. Why keep doing these unfair title matches and stipulations to give Roman a chance? Even their nuke, putting Roman in the Royal Rumble and making it for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, is engineered to give Roman a come from behind win.Nice botchamania moment with Vince after Sheamus hit the Brogue Kick.
Vince on his feet just stares at Sheamus after the Brogue kick. Then suddenly collapses and Scott Armstrong comes down to count.
1. exactly what you said... but I can't even fathom what the booking of that was SUPPOSED to be... vince had to be up for the spear to walk into the boot... did Armstrong miss his cue?
2. How exactly is Roman booked as a face? He's beating the piss out of a 70 year old (no matter how jacked and how evil) and cuffing around a woman...HHH is really in the face role making the save
I know they are in some kind of post modern, there are no heels or faces, only characters, but you are somewhat inhibited by the constraints of your talent to act and the history of the "art form" you are putting forth. You kind of need heels and faces.... Greek Tragedy wasn't littered with tweeners.
Also don't like the "I'm doing it for my daughter" motivation given to Roman, which is a direct lift of the Owens schtick, which given his nature I'm guessing he came up with.
They're trying some kind of reheated Stone cold gimmick, can you imagine Stone cold ever stopping to say "I'm doing this for my daughter". The revolutionary part of his gimmick was he appeared to not even care about the title just fighting
Maybe I’m looking for too many loopholes instead of “just enjoying the show,” but man, if you don’t want the guy to be champion, take the belt away from him. Going through these heel authority motions to get it off him only works when you’re trying to keep up appearances that you’re NOT an evil character, right? You put Austin in unfair matches because you aren’t the “bad guy,” you’re just doing your job, even though you’re totally the bad guy and are manipulating things from behind the scenes.
If you’re on TV getting arrested for being aggressively evil, or you’re Triple H and Stephanie in the ring announcing that you’re the villains, what’s the point of pretending? What are you getting from it? Just say “we’re stripping Roman of the title for punching the owner of the company, punching the COO and threatening Stephanie a bunch, he doesn’t ever get another title shot and if he’s unhappy about that, he can find another job.” Don’t say, “I’m so mad at you, Roman, here’s another chance for you to win! Here, let me help you.” Be a jerk, just don’t be self-defeating.
RBM
Footballguy
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
He's been superhuman in some of his past injury comebacks, but Cena having shoulder surgery for reportedly torn rotator cuff that'll keep him out 6-9 months.
Just a brutal blow for Mania. And that they're trying to fill that place. They're really going to have to pull something out of their asses. Reigns + HHH + Lesnar + Rock (latter of which we don't know even can wrestle due to insurance issue). If he's able to go, it's almost a lock we get Reigns vs. HHH and Lesnar vs. Rock.......there's literally no other options fella.
I agree with the above that HHH is likely coming out of Rumble with the belt. Really what options do they realistically have? Reigns 'overcoming all odds' and winning the Rumble?
They really need to push the Bullet Club stuff to the main roster and skip NXT. I can't imagine they're not going to run with that at this point.. There's no other reason to bring on Festus/Gallows if not.
Just a brutal blow for Mania. And that they're trying to fill that place. They're really going to have to pull something out of their asses. Reigns + HHH + Lesnar + Rock (latter of which we don't know even can wrestle due to insurance issue). If he's able to go, it's almost a lock we get Reigns vs. HHH and Lesnar vs. Rock.......there's literally no other options fella.
I agree with the above that HHH is likely coming out of Rumble with the belt. Really what options do they realistically have? Reigns 'overcoming all odds' and winning the Rumble?
They really need to push the Bullet Club stuff to the main roster and skip NXT. I can't imagine they're not going to run with that at this point.. There's no other reason to bring on Festus/Gallows if not.
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KiddLattimer
Footballguy
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
I find it fascinating that public opinion supports putting the belt on HHH. He's not even a wrestler, and he's basically pre-Cena Cena. I thought everyone complained about HHH putting himself over full-time guys?
I personally think HHH is best fit for a second or third from the top Wrestlemania match because of his part-time status. Beating him is also a nice bump for someone. It could go to Roman, and that's what they are building to, but I also wouldn't mind it being Ambrose. I'd have HHH helps Owens win the IC title, making KO the new "HHH guy". Ambrose wants his revenge at Mania.
Then I go ahead with shotgunning Balor to the main roster the night after Rumble to confront Owens. Have the Bullet Club back him up with League of Nations backing Owens. Owens/Balor for IC title. Bullet Club vs LoN at Mania.
I'm fine with going chalk for the World Title. Roman vs Brock was intense and awesome last year...it'll be great again.
I'm a little lost with what to do with Wyatt, Undertaker, and the US title. Just pair them up again and build it as a final battle? Insert Bray into the world title picture? Put them in place of the Bullet Club to save them for post-Mania?
My Mania, a work in progress (Taker, Jericho, Bray Wyatt)
Reigns © w/ the Rock vs Lesnar w/Heyman and Vince McMahon
Owens © vs Balor
HHH vs Ambrose
League of Nations vs Bullet Club (or Wyatt family?)
Charlotte © vs Sasha Banks
Women's scramble for #1 contender
4-way tag team thing they always do
Jeremy
Footballguy
Maybe, but I'm not sure it would work. I doubt most WWE fans know who these guys are. The only one I've heard of is AJ Styles and him just barely. Everyone knew who the Outsiders were.
The Cena injury is a big blow. I don't think there's enough time between now and Mania to establish new superstars that can draw. They're going to have to mostly make due with what they have.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I think it'll be:
Andre Battle Royale..... Mark Henry wins.
Golddust v.
Andre Battle Royal
RBM
Footballguy
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I can't believe they'd let Styles and Co. just skip NXT and go right into the Big roster. Not because they're not ready or aren't capable......but because the ego of the Brass in the WWE wouldn't be comfortable with that as it presums that there is wrestling out there that MIGHT have exposure the WWE doesn't. No matter how good those guys are......Vince,HHH and Steph are going to make them carry the water coolers for at least a small period of time.
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Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I'd be surprised if WWE didn't go all out for Jeff Hardy (his contract expires end of Feb with TNA) for a Mania appearance.
Things are looking so bleak for Mania that they've got to look to guys like Hardy & Angle this time around. They aren't guys you need months and months and months to build. (And nowadays they can't build #### anyway) I'd be surprised if at least one of them isn't on the Mania card. That Mania card posted above is just pitiful looking with the lack of draws. They've got to pull something out of their asses. A very good start would be able to have the Rock able to work.
HHH and Reigns is a lock IMO for Mania. They didn't blow off the 'feud' at Rumble.....it's gonna happen at Mania.
Things are looking so bleak for Mania that they've got to look to guys like Hardy & Angle this time around. They aren't guys you need months and months and months to build. (And nowadays they can't build #### anyway) I'd be surprised if at least one of them isn't on the Mania card. That Mania card posted above is just pitiful looking with the lack of draws. They've got to pull something out of their asses. A very good start would be able to have the Rock able to work.
HHH and Reigns is a lock IMO for Mania. They didn't blow off the 'feud' at Rumble.....it's gonna happen at Mania.
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KiddLattimer
Footballguy
They could always swallow pride and back up the brinks truck for CM Punk
Seatown Mofos
Footballguy
Would love to see Punk back.
Also saw Daniel Bryan on the Twitter pleading for the WWE doctors to clear him so he could wrestle with his old buddies they just signed. So I gather from that, that it seems if it was up to him he'd be out there, he's just being held out for his own good. That makes me sad, I wish he could be out there, they sure could use him right now.
Also saw Daniel Bryan on the Twitter pleading for the WWE doctors to clear him so he could wrestle with his old buddies they just signed. So I gather from that, that it seems if it was up to him he'd be out there, he's just being held out for his own good. That makes me sad, I wish he could be out there, they sure could use him right now.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Heard hardy on the flair podcast and he needs major knee reconstruction. BUT he was going to TRY to work but that seems risky with his styleCraig_MiamiFL said:
Keith R
The Don
Other than Brock, I have no interest in any part-timers in title matches.
The Cena injury blows everything wide open for WM. I had been expecting
Reigns vs Brock - WWE Title
Rock vs HHH
Taker vs Cena
But how do you reshuffle the top of the card now? Taker has to wrestle if he is not retired, but I don't want to see Taker-Brock or Taker-HHH again. Taker-Rock would be weird.
Taker-Jericho would be utterly lacking in drama, but right now, that may be the best case scenario - it would be very well-wrestled and Jericho wouldn't get damaged the way Bray was last year.
And there is NO WAY you use the New Day as pre-show filler. They deserve main telecast spotlight and ideally a single team opponent and not to be part of a jumbled mess. It would never happen but I would mark out for a New Day - Brothers of Destruction WM feud and match.
The Cena injury blows everything wide open for WM. I had been expecting
Reigns vs Brock - WWE Title
Rock vs HHH
Taker vs Cena
But how do you reshuffle the top of the card now? Taker has to wrestle if he is not retired, but I don't want to see Taker-Brock or Taker-HHH again. Taker-Rock would be weird.
Taker-Jericho would be utterly lacking in drama, but right now, that may be the best case scenario - it would be very well-wrestled and Jericho wouldn't get damaged the way Bray was last year.
And there is NO WAY you use the New Day as pre-show filler. They deserve main telecast spotlight and ideally a single team opponent and not to be part of a jumbled mess. It would never happen but I would mark out for a New Day - Brothers of Destruction WM feud and match.
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Apparently Sasha Banks is hurt as well, per the Wrestling Observer. Because WWE doesn't have enough injuries I guess.
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
Totally agree on New Day vs destruction bros, but it's a tough fit for their goofy stuff. New Day needs to do something big in the Rumble. Maybe they can move the US Title to them somehow.
These injuries are incredible when you stop and think about it. I mean consider this, after last year's Wrestlemania the champions were as follows:
WWE Title: Seth Rollins
IC Title: Daniel Bryan
US Title: John Cena
Tag Team Titles: Cesaro and Tyson Kidd
Divas Title: Nikki Bella
NXT Title: Kevin Owens
Women's Title: Sasha Banks
NXT Tag Champs: Lucha Dragons
So of the 10 title holders after Mania last year, only Owens and Kalisto are wrestling right now.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I wonder if their hand may be forced to welcome hogan back in the fold to get a little star power in.
I know it's a context of fiction but it's amazing that more hasn't been spoken about a film like the hateful 8 (which I have no problem with) and their depiction of the word that bounced hogan into the void which was captured without his knowledge in a private moment (which I don't condone). But does the guy die in purgatory?
I know it's a context of fiction but it's amazing that more hasn't been spoken about a film like the hateful 8 (which I have no problem with) and their depiction of the word that bounced hogan into the void which was captured without his knowledge in a private moment (which I don't condone). But does the guy die in purgatory?
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Just turned on a stream of the TNA PPV ..... can't find one in English Looks like *maybe* a couple hundred people there. Man it's just sad looking. They actually panned into the crowd. Looks like they put in a couple of rafters.
They just need to go away. They're going nowhere with Dixie. No reason to feel bad for them. They've had 2 chances in the past year (before Dest. America & before PopTV) to completely reboot things. Yet, they've kept the same creative, same format.
Looking forward to Lucha Season 2 premiering in a couple weeks.
Looks like *maybe* a couple hundred people there. Man it's just sad looking. They actually panned into the crowd. Looks like they put in a couple of rafters.They just need to go away. They're going nowhere with Dixie. No reason to feel bad for them. They've had 2 chances in the past year (before Dest. America & before PopTV) to completely reboot things. Yet, they've kept the same creative, same format.
Looking forward to Lucha Season 2 premiering in a couple weeks.
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Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
You think the actual PPV was in English?Just turned on a stream of the TNA PPV ..... can't find one in English
They just need to go away. They're going nowhere with Dixie. No reason to feel bad for them. They've had 2 chances in the past year (before Dest. America & before PopTV) to completely reboot things. Yet, they've kept the same creative, same format.
Looking forward to Lucha Season 2 premiering in a couple weeks.
I think if one were to put you, me, and JB BC in a room I think we can write better stuff than this.
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Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Well this is awkward...
I'm watching ROH TV this afternoon and there's a segment featuring The Kingdom, of which Maria Kanellis and her husband Michael Bennett just worked their 1st TNA PPV. Long story short, ROH TV's main event will be The Kingdom vs. The Young Bucks vs. ReDRagon.
I figured ROH would just write Kanellis and Bennett off TV, but maybe they didn't know about the jump to TNA until after the show was written. This show was apparently the 2nd of 2 nights at the 2300 Arena in Philly.
Either way...
I'm watching ROH TV this afternoon and there's a segment featuring The Kingdom, of which Maria Kanellis and her husband Michael Bennett just worked their 1st TNA PPV. Long story short, ROH TV's main event will be The Kingdom vs. The Young Bucks vs. ReDRagon.
I figured ROH would just write Kanellis and Bennett off TV, but maybe they didn't know about the jump to TNA until after the show was written. This show was apparently the 2nd of 2 nights at the 2300 Arena in Philly.
Either way...
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2015/12/20/1219-roh-tv-taping-spoilers-results-from-post-final-battle/
They knew at the time they were leaving. Nigel McGuiness thanked them after the match.
So few people actually watch either show that they may as well use what talent they have to put others over. It's just as funny with Mike Bennett saying everyone was talking about "The Miracle" during his TNA debut. I think TNA started posting his "MIracle" promos online on their YouTube channel like 2 days before their premiere Impact on PopTV
=========================
TNA"s live premiere on PopTV actually had less viewers (255k) than their final regular show on Destination America. I don't know how Dixie Carter gets new networks to fall for the same old same old every time. It's over for TNA.
They're doing about a 1/4 of the audience they had on Spike.
====================================
Was just looking back at some Lucha Underground matches I missed last season, This one is just insane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDR6tOXzt6Q
Vampiro is nuts.
They knew at the time they were leaving. Nigel McGuiness thanked them after the match.
So few people actually watch either show that they may as well use what talent they have to put others over. It's just as funny with Mike Bennett saying everyone was talking about "The Miracle" during his TNA debut.
I think TNA started posting his "MIracle" promos online on their YouTube channel like 2 days before their premiere Impact on PopTV=========================
TNA"s live premiere on PopTV actually had less viewers (255k) than their final regular show on Destination America. I don't know how Dixie Carter gets new networks to fall for the same old same old every time. It's over for TNA.
They're doing about a 1/4 of the audience they had on Spike.
====================================
Was just looking back at some Lucha Underground matches I missed last season, This one is just insane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDR6tOXzt6Q
Vampiro is nuts.
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Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Maybe she's flashing her funbags?
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Possible.Maybe she's flashing her funbags?
Scott Hall hinted he heard she's banged some of the talent during a recent shoot interview.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Sting announced as the first 2016 Hall of Fame inductee.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Bogart
Footballguy
I'm going to be really interested if they can somehow pull off putting The Freebirds in the Hall Of Fame this year. They deserve it. There is no doubt Michael Hayes bugs HHH about it daily. It's in Dallas, the perfect spot for them to get a tremendous pop.
Just that whole Confederate Flag and racism thing to worry about...
Just that whole Confederate Flag and racism thing to worry about...
SlaX
Footballguy
Midnight & Rock n Roll Express should be in before Demolition. I mean, Krusher Kkruschev and/or Brian Adams in the Hall would be lower than Koko B Ware for me.
RBM
Footballguy
HOF should be built around the '80s WWF glory days and that means Demolition is a lock.
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