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*** Official *** Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (1 Viewer)

Todem said:
Yeah I thought is was awesome. CGI today is amazing. It's a sci-fi fantasy movie....how the #### can we nit-pic something like that in a fantasy movie on such an epic scale.

Pure inertia here. Enjoy the movie!!!
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Because people have differing opinions on what's awesome as opposed to simply tolerable. 

I just find stuff like this to be completely unnecessary. Willing suspension of disbelief is a requirement in all movies but particularly in SciFi/Fantasy.

I would rather be told "the part of Tarkin will now be played by this actor" as opposed to "the part of Tarkin will be played by an actor with a digitally superimposed face". Let actors act.

Jack Ryan has been played by four different actors. They didn't put Alec Baldwin's face on Ben Affleck's performance (I don't know which I'd prefer!).

The Joker is another easy example. Hannibal Lechter, John Connor, James Kirk (alternate universe, I get it).

I don't think anyone is saying that it makes the movie unwatchable or even significantly diminishes the enjoyment. It's just a "thing".

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
Because people have differing opinions on what's awesome as opposed to simply tolerable. 

I just find stuff like this to be completely unnecessary. Willing suspension of disbelief is a requirement in all movies but particularly in SciFi/Fantasy.

I would rather be told "the part of Tarkin will now be played by this actor" as opposed to "the part of Tarkin will be played by an actor with a digitally superimposed face". Let actors act.

Jack Ryan has been played by four different actors. They didn't put Alec Baldwin's face on Ben Affleck's performance (I don't know which I'd prefer!).

The Joker is another easy example. Hannibal Lechter, John Connor, James Kirk (alternate universe, I get it).

I don't think anyone is saying that it makes the movie unwatchable or even significantly diminishes the enjoyment. It's just a "thing".
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And they are doing some of the things ye speak of in the Han Solo movie due out sometime in the next couple years.

 
In addition to the Maul fight, I also enjoy the Pod Race from the prequels. Is that deserving of ridicule?  The rest is pretty much rubbish. 

 
Regarding ROTJ, that movie would never have survived the internet.

It's a pretty bad movie, with some really great scenes. 

Everything to do with Luke/Vader/the Emperor was awesome.  Pretty much the rest stunk.

The break-out of Han from Jabba went on for ages, the Ewoks were distracting in a Jar-Jar type of way, there's no way the Ewoks beat the Empire as they did...

We think of many of these things as cool because we watched them as kids.  Personally I was 6 when ROTJ came out, so it's always been a part of my life from the moment I first saw it.  

But in retrospect, it's not a great movie.  Lucas made two great movies, and imo, he made a bunch of other great moments and scenes.

Even the prequels are full of great moments, but overall the movies aren't great.  

 
bigbottom said:
In addition to the Maul fight, I also enjoy the Pod Race from the prequels. Is that deserving of ridicule?  The rest is pretty much rubbish. 
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Maul fight, Pod race, arena battle, Palpatine swaying Anakin, Anakin v Obi Won, I liked all those parts.

 
There are good movies and even good stories buried in the prequels. The dialogue and timing of the delivery of bad dislouge is what really held those movies back. The effects also do not hold up. They used too much green screen. The originals basically look and hold up better. 

God bless george Lucas but he ruined his own films. Disney is doing it right for the most part. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
There are good movies and even good stories buried in the prequels. The dialogue and timing of the delivery of bad dislouge is what really held those movies back. The effects also do not hold up. They used too much green screen. The originals basically look and hold up better. 

God bless george Lucas but he ruined his own films. Disney is doing it right for the most part. 
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Totally agree.

 
I have said this before but unfortunately Lucas botched the prequels so badly from what they could have been. I had hoped when those were announced that 1 would be setting him up as the innocent kid and then starting to see his corruption (so in essence combining movies 1 and 2 with respect to Anakin). Movie 2 would have been Revenge of the Sith with the ending being Order 66 and then movie 3 be essentially what we saw in rogue 1 with darth Vader systematically destroying what was left of the Jedi and the republic.

instead we got jar jar and anakin and padme rolling around in the field.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
There are good movies and even good stories buried in the prequels. The dialogue and timing of the delivery of bad dislouge is what really held those movies back. The effects also do not hold up. They used too much green screen. The originals basically look and hold up better. 

God bless george Lucas but he ruined his own films. Disney is doing it right for the most part. 
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Agree the prequels are more like a video game and lack soul of real actors and the grittiness of non green screen environments. Although this was seen after empire where he started to make decisions like pulling the forest scenes from Kashykk and having lots of Wookiee to endor and ewoks.

the bathroom humor and terrible attempted slapstick as humor in the prequels as compared to the many lol moments of rogue 1 is striking.

 
bagger said:
I have said this before but unfortunately Lucas botched the prequels so badly from what they could have been. I had hoped when those were announced that 1 would be setting him up as the innocent kid and then starting to see his corruption (so in essence combining movies 1 and 2 with respect to Anakin). Movie 2 would have been Revenge of the Sith with the ending being Order 66 and then movie 3 be essentially what we saw in rogue 1 with darth Vader systematically destroying what was left of the Jedi and the republic.

instead we got jar jar and anakin and padme rolling around in the field.
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I am on board with this.

But what's done is done.  This movie, that we have right now, for all of Andy's #####ing (remember, he thought Castaway was good and didn't like Godfather but I love him anyway in an ibrother sort of way) is just a phenomenal movie in pretty much every possible way and gave us the story and the setting in this universe that we have truly deserved since............. Empire Strikes Back.  Yeah, I said it.  After seeing this movie I hate Jedi more and more.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I am on board with this.

But what's done is done.  This movie, that we have right now, for all of Andy's #####ing (remember, he thought Castaway was good and didn't like Godfather but I love him anyway in an ibrother sort of way) is just a phenomenal movie in pretty much every possible way and gave us the story and the setting in this universe that we have truly deserved since............. Empire Strikes Back.  Yeah, I said it.  After seeing this movie I hate Jedi more and more.
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I didn't say I didn't like The Godfather, ya heathen. 

And what "all" are you talking about? I just said the Tarkin effect didn't work for me. And that the score is forgettable. But the rest I was positive about.

You know, some day you're not going to have ol' Andy to mis-characterize around here. :angry:

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
I didn't say I didn't like The Godfather, ya heathen. 

And what "all" are you talking about? I just said the Tarkin effect didn't work for me. And that the score is forgettable. But the rest I was positive about.

You know, some day you're not going to have ol' Andy to mis-characterize around here. :angry:
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lol.  You're being annoying and nit picking just to pick nits.  It's a 21st century internet phenomenon.  Everyone has an opinion on everything and you have to make sure you stand out just enough from the crowd.

And I'm not getting the lack of love for the music - I thought the music was great.  It was exactly what it was supposed to be - attached to the main story line but offshoot.  I thought it was very well done.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
lol.  You're being annoying and nit picking just to pick nits.  It's a 21st century internet phenomenon.  Everyone has an opinion on everything and you have to make sure you stand out just enough from the crowd.

And I'm not getting the lack of love for the music - I thought the music was great.  It was exactly what it was supposed to be - attached to the main story line but offshoot.  I thought it was very well done.
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Okay. Now you are riling me up a bit.

It's annoying if you don't fall in line and gush like a schoolgirl over a movie that is good not great? Okay, friendo.

You act like the movie is flawless. It's not.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Yeah, giving a truly iconic villain bitch beginnings was a terrible idea. 
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That is really what hangs me up. His turn is not believable. The clone wars cartoons helps it a bit, but the lust for power and conflict within himself and with the Jedi Order just does not come across strongly enough to justify the sudden murder of kids. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Okay. Now you are riling me up a bit.

It's annoying if you don't fall in line and gush like a schoolgirl over a movie that is good not great? Okay, friendo.

You act like the movie is flawless. It's not.
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No, I'm just poking the bear because it amuses me and I am purposely not having political arguments while the crybaby righties and lefties figure out the rules they want to play with so that there doesn't have to be a safe space for either.

 
Too bad they didn't have Adam Driver for the prequels, he would've been a million times better as Anakin IMO.

But let's not forget as someone else pointed out, we probably don't get Rogue One and TFA if we don't have the failures that were the prequels.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
That is really what hangs me up. His turn is not believable. The clone wars cartoons helps it a bit, but the lust for power and conflict within himself and with the Jedi Order just does not come across strongly enough to justify the sudden murder of kids. 
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It wasn't long enough but the buildup was there.  If you need to hammer one true failure of the prequels most of the stuff people complain about is just white noise.  The true failure was not seeing Annikan become Vader.  That story is probably a great story.  But the prequels tried to tell a bigger story and in doing it failed to tell the one that was probably the best one.  All while introducing as many new cool looking robots and ships as possible. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Oh. Well that makes more sense.
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Yup. 

Meanwhile, this movie was awesome.  In the terms of useless internet debates that can be had the fight we should be having right now is why in the hell wasn't this Return of the Jedi?  As I posted I don't hate the prequels like some.  But seeing this movie made me hate them and Jedi.  Because this movie showed the potential for the universe.  Ugh, it's actually frustrating even thinking about it.

 
I have watched the prequels with the directors commentary turned on. The basis for a great story is there. It is more enjoyable when you hear what they were thinking. It just missed the mark. I think the first movie is awful, but I like 2 and 3. Sue me

 
It wasn't long enough but the buildup was there.
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There is a fundamental flaw with Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. During the previous 1 1/2 movies (as well as Jedi), George Lucas established Anakin Skywalker as someone who 1) lashes out at those who question/restrain him, and 2) kills things that threaten his family. Anakin stays consistent within this reality all the way through Clones and Sith.....right up to the point where Palpatine/Dark Side kills Padme.

At that point, George Lucas suddenly changes the very essence of Anakin's character. Instead of lashing out at the thing that hurt his family, he suddenly decides to embrace it.

Now, you can make the argument that "Anakin didn't know that the Dark Side killed Padme" and "that just shows how powerful the Dark Side is", and those are both fair arguments. But they ignore another critical plot failure by Lucas: Palpatine told Anakin that he could save Padme by turning to the Dark Side! So, when his switch failed to save Padme, Anakin should have realized that A) Palpatine is a liar, B) the Dark Side is not as powerful as he thought.

So, not only does Lucas change Anakin's personality to suit the bizarre plot, but he also turns Anakin into a big wussy moron.

The bottom line is that if we accept the storyline of Sith, then Darth Vader is not the cunning supervillain that we thought he was. He's nothing more than mindless puppet of Palpatine, believing whatever the Emperor tells him (no matter how illogical it is). And that makes him less compelling, IMO.

 
No need to remake the prequels. We know how that story ends.

There's an infinite amount of stories they can tell. I know that doesn't stop the rest of Hollywood from remaking everything under the sun instead of coming up with an original idea, but I'll hope Star Wars is different.

 
Joe Summer said:
There is a fundamental flaw with Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. During the previous 1 1/2 movies (as well as Jedi), George Lucas established Anakin Skywalker as someone who 1) lashes out at those who question/restrain him, and 2) kills things that threaten his family. Anakin stays consistent within this reality all the way through Clones and Sith.....right up to the point where Palpatine/Dark Side kills Padme.

At that point, George Lucas suddenly changes the very essence of Anakin's character. Instead of lashing out at the thing that hurt his family, he suddenly decides to embrace it.

Now, you can make the argument that "Anakin didn't know that the Dark Side killed Padme" and "that just shows how powerful the Dark Side is", and those are both fair arguments. But they ignore another critical plot failure by Lucas: Palpatine told Anakin that he could save Padme by turning to the Dark Side! So, when his switch failed to save Padme, Anakin should have realized that A) Palpatine is a liar, B) the Dark Side is not as powerful as he thought.

So, not only does Lucas change Anakin's personality to suit the bizarre plot, but he also turns Anakin into a big wussy moron.

The bottom line is that if we accept the storyline of Sith, then Darth Vader is not the cunning supervillain that we thought he was. He's nothing more than mindless puppet of Palpatine, believing whatever the Emperor tells him (no matter how illogical it is). And that makes him less compelling, IMO.
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IIRC, Palpatine didn't have anything to do with Padme's death.  Anakin got super jealous of an imagined affair between Padme and Obi-Wan (which Palpatine may have suggested, but that doesn't make him responsible for what ensues), which was finally pushed over the edge by it appearing that Padme brought Obi-Wan to where Anakin had been hiding from him after the slaughter at the Jedi temple.  In his rage Anakin (as far as he knew) kills Padme and then tries to kill Kenobi.  Padme's death wasn't a failure by the Dark Side, but rather something Anakin did himself, which just amplified his hatred.  It's a weak reason to turn to the Dark Side, but apparently good enough.

 
bcdjr1 said:
IIRC, Palpatine didn't have anything to do with Padme's death.  Anakin got super jealous of an imagined affair between Padme and Obi-Wan (which Palpatine may have suggested, but that doesn't make him responsible for what ensues), which was finally pushed over the edge by it appearing that Padme brought Obi-Wan to where Anakin had been hiding from him after the slaughter at the Jedi temple.  In his rage Anakin (as far as he knew) kills Padme and then tries to kill Kenobi.  Padme's death wasn't a failure by the Dark Side, but rather something Anakin did himself, which just amplified his hatred.  It's a weak reason to turn to the Dark Side, but apparently good enough.
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Didn't Padme die in child birth?  

 
bcdjr1 said:
IIRC, Palpatine didn't have anything to do with Padme's death.  Anakin got super jealous of an imagined affair between Padme and Obi-Wan (which Palpatine may have suggested, but that doesn't make him responsible for what ensues), which was finally pushed over the edge by it appearing that Padme brought Obi-Wan to where Anakin had been hiding from him after the slaughter at the Jedi temple.  In his rage Anakin (as far as he knew) kills Padme and then tries to kill Kenobi.  Padme's death wasn't a failure by the Dark Side, but rather something Anakin did himself, which just amplified his hatred.  It's a weak reason to turn to the Dark Side, but apparently good enough.
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My understanding may be wrong but I believe Anakin turns to the Dark Side well before he thinks he killed Padme.  The turn started in 2 when he slaughters the tribe that took his mother.  I think the turn completes when he slaughters the younglings in the temple.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Because people have differing opinions on what's awesome as opposed to simply tolerable. 

I just find stuff like this to be completely unnecessary. Willing suspension of disbelief is a requirement in all movies but particularly in SciFi/Fantasy.

I would rather be told "the part of Tarkin will now be played by this actor" as opposed to "the part of Tarkin will be played by an actor with a digitally superimposed face". Let actors act.

Jack Ryan has been played by four different actors. They didn't put Alec Baldwin's face on Ben Affleck's performance (I don't know which I'd prefer!).

The Joker is another easy example. Hannibal Lechter, John Connor, James Kirk (alternate universe, I get it).

I don't think anyone is saying that it makes the movie unwatchable or even significantly diminishes the enjoyment. It's just a "thing".
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Sorry it's a thing for you. I did not find it a big deal and again thought it was cool they attempted to keep the characters authentic even though Lee is gone and Carrie Fisher is a fat old hag.

LOL.

 
IIRC, Palpatine didn't have anything to do with Padme's death. Anakin got super jealous of an imagined affair between Padme and Obi-Wan (which Palpatine may have suggested, but that doesn't make him responsible for what ensues), which was finally pushed over the edge by it appearing that Padme brought Obi-Wan to where Anakin had been hiding from him after the slaughter at the Jedi temple. In his rage Anakin (as far as he knew) kills Padme and then tries to kill Kenobi. Padme's death wasn't a failure by the Dark Side, but rather something Anakin did himself, which just amplified his hatred. It's a weak reason to turn to the Dark Side, but apparently good enough.
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There are a lot of theories on how Padme really died. Some believe that Palpatine did it, others believe that Anakin did it (even though he only choked her for a few seconds and she was breathing and "medically completely healthy" afterwards). Palpatine lied to Anakin and said that Anakin killed her. And this might have been enough motivation for Anakin to turn to the dark side, except that Anakin had already turned to the Dark Side (because Palpatine assured him that the switch would save Padme). That's the flaw in the storyline. Lucas set up the plot so that Anakin would only turn to the Dark Side to save Padme, and yet when that didn't happen, Anakin ended up embracing the Dark Side anyway.

Imagine any other movie where the storyline establishes certain conditions before a goal can be reached, then none of those conditions are met, yet the goal is achieved anyway. "We didn't hit the thermal exhaust with the proton torpedo, but the Death Star blew up anyway, because it turns out that NOT hitting the exhaust is what actually caused it to blow up!"

It's just terrible storytelling.

 
NewlyRetired said:
My understanding may be wrong but I believe Anakin turns to the Dark Side well before he thinks he killed Padme.  The turn started in 2 when he slaughters the tribe that took his mother.  I think the turn completes when he slaughters the younglings in the temple.
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Well, he killed the younglings for the Emperor who said, through the Dark Side, he could keep Padme alive through childbirth. That seems like an incomplete turn to me. Evil acts done in desperation to save someone he loves. After Padme is dead the "save someone he loves" motivation is gone. Then he stays with his new master, I imagine, because of the anger and hatred he feels toward himself for killing her and probably the universe for taking her from him.

 
Anakin became Vader when he pledged himself to Palpatine's teachings after the latter's battle with Windu. Primarily because he lost all emotional control.

At that point, there was no Anakin as all his Light side is buried by Palpatine. 

It was only later, when he saw Luke's willingness to sacrifice himself (something Anakin was before unwilling to do) that the Light side was rekindled and Anakin "defeats" Vader.

 
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Leeroy Jenkins said:
Did any of the trailer make the actual movie?  I hate that. 
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I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

yeah, there were a couple of shots that the marketing team chose to put in the trailer that ended up on the cutting room floor. Big deal. It's just a music video mash-up of a bunch of shots from a movie in no actual story order, just to get you interested to see it. And it did just that.

 
Todem said:
Sorry it's a thing for you. I did not find it a big deal and again thought it was cool they attempted to keep the characters authentic even though Lee is gone and Carrie Fisher is a fat old hag.

LOL.
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I found it irritating too, but they could have CGI'd Fisher's entire role in TFA and I would have been happy in retrospect.

 
joey said:
I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

yeah, there were a couple of shots that the marketing team chose to put in the trailer that ended up on the cutting room floor. Big deal. It's just a music video mash-up of a bunch of shots from a movie in no actual story order, just to get you interested to see it. And it did just that.
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I dunno. It was pretty much the entire trailer that didnt make it in. Movie still rocked though. its just weird.

 
joey said:
I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

yeah, there were a couple of shots that the marketing team chose to put in the trailer that ended up on the cutting room floor. Big deal. It's just a music video mash-up of a bunch of shots from a movie in no actual story order, just to get you interested to see it. And it did just that.
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I don't know on the validity of it..., but there's a couple of sites that theorize on the differences between the trailer scenes and the actual movie. To that, the thought is that the reshoots remade Jyn a much more sympathetic character as opposed to a more hardlined militant (one of the sites said they inferred from the dialogue that she was more in line with what Saw Gerrera was).  

 
Thunderlips said:
I don't know on the validity of it..., but there's a couple of sites that theorize on the differences between the trailer scenes and the actual movie. To that, the thought is that the reshoots remade Jyn a much more sympathetic character as opposed to a more hardlined militant (one of the sites said they inferred from the dialogue that she was more in line with what Saw Gerrera was).  
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Jyn and Saw both had dialogue cut. And some vader scenes seem to have been cut as well from the trailer. 

I liked the movie. Need to see again I guess. I jusy hate when they do that and the scenes they dropped seem good. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Jyn and Saw both had dialogue cut. And some vader scenes seem to have been cut as well from the trailer. 

I liked the movie. Need to see again I guess. I jusy hate when they do that and the scenes they dropped seem good. 
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Yeah....you'd hope for an expanded edition or something like that, but if the reshoots involved fundamentally changing the main character....I don't know if we'll see that. 

 
If Disney was smart they would declare the first three episodes were just a bad dream and completely remake them == $$$$$

 
The "Jyn and Tie Fighter-rising-from-bottom-of-screen" shot in the trailer was indeed a Trailer Only shot with no intention of putting it in the movie.

That's how these trailers work quite often. What's cool for a trailer and what's good for the cut of the movie are not always the same exact thing.

 
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