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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (4 Viewers)

I always heard that in the Russian Armed Forces, enlisted men are akin to pond scum, as seen by their superior officers.  They are never told anything and are chastised to the highest degree for disobeying an order. Read about the Kursk submarine disaster.

All this is now coming to light for me seeing how absolutely terrible things are on the front lines for Russian troops. What a disaster militarily.

ETA: Then again, the Navy's handling of USS Iowa explosion of the #1 16-inch gun battery wasn't much better than the Kursk. My Dad lost his neighbor (Legalman - wrong place wrong time) in that disaster.

 
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culdeus said:
I mean this makes some sense here.  If you have all the cool expensive toys but none of the neat laser bombs to put on them, then why risk getting them shot down.  
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And if their pilots aren’t experienced enough to fly them, they’re very expensive lawn ornaments. 

 
Kind of feel like the idea of "cancelling" (cause I can't think of a better term at the moment) Russian hockey players who ever buddied up to Putin is JUST on the edge of being over the top.  Criminalizing all _______ or anyone who was ever friendly with _________ is a slippery slope to places we have been in the past and do not want to return to.  I know I have seen some comments in here that generally paint Russians with a broad brush.  I refuse to believe the generalizations.  I am generally not so Pollyannaish, but I do hope we'll rise above this prejudice against one group of people and save our disdain for the leaders who so richly deserve it.

 
I disagree. Those hockey players probably had their feelings removed in the cheating Russian youth academies anyway.

 
culdeus said:
I mean this makes some sense here.  If you have all the cool expensive toys but none of the neat laser bombs to put on them, then why risk getting them shot down.  
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And the risk of friendly fire makes a lot of sense too considering the number of Russian troops that don't know where they are plus the coordination of this campaign has been a #### show. 

 
Ovechkin has been very outspoken about his support for Putin in the past. It's appropriate for him to be asked questions about it now. He's playing tonight so it's not like he's been canceled. Did he lose endorsement deals or something?

 
Eephus said:
Ovechkin has been very outspoken about his support for Putin in the past. It's appropriate for him to be asked questions about it now. He's playing tonight so it's not like he's been canceled. Did he lose endorsement deals or something?
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Not yet.  Probably not likely, but I don't like it.

ETA: I have no problem with him being asked tough questions.   Just randomly suspending a guy because he's buddied up to politicians in the past feels a bridge too far to me.

 
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facook said:
Not yet.  Probably not likely, but I don't like it.

ETA: I have no problem with him being asked tough questions.   Just randomly suspending a guy because he's buddied up to politicians in the past feels a bridge too far to me.
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@Joe Bryant  Please let me know if this is too political.  I am not at all trying to make this about one side of the American aisle or the other, just common sense/decency.  But this is a great thread so please hit me up if this is not the kind of discussion you want in here.

 
bagger said:
On a related note I assume Ukraine still has fighters/bombers…how do they not take out that 3 mile convoy?  Seems like a prime bombing run.  Like level 1 flight simulator.
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Right!  How is NATO not rapidly training Ukraine pilots in Poland to mount up on some heavily armed jets.  This would seem to not defy the whole no fly zone nonsense as Ukraine pilots would be doing the flying (like Russia cranking munitions from Belarus).  

 
bagger said:
On a related note I assume Ukraine still has fighters/bombers…how do they not take out that 3 mile convoy?  Seems like a prime bombing run.  Like level 1 flight simulator.
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I assume Russia at least has fighters patrolling and covering the column. 

 
bagger said:
On a related note I assume Ukraine still has fighters/bombers…how do they not take out that 3 mile convoy?  Seems like a prime bombing run.  Like level 1 flight simulator.
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I mean if the US snuck some predator drones in there at like 3am you think anyone would ever stop to do the munition testing to figure it out?  Gotta be crossing a few people's minds rn.  

 
So how does this end?

Do Russian soldiers mutiny? A coup? Special forces take out Putin like in video games/movies?

 
culdeus said:
I mean if the US snuck some predator drones in there at like 3am you think anyone would ever stop to do the munition testing to figure it out?  Gotta be crossing a few people's minds rn.  
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Hopefully not, because if one of those crashes or is destroyed you are starting WW3. 

 
culdeus said:
I mean as much as anything is verified.  Multiple articles linked here tend to confirm it and cite things that would have you believe it's valid.
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I don’t recall seeing anything stating that they are flying 0 cover operations and I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe they aren’t covering such a large and exposed force. 

 
thecatch said:
Hopefully not, because if one of those crashes or is destroyed you are starting WW3. 
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 Why couldn't the US send some, with other military aid, and then also send a few people to teach the Ukrainians how to properly use them?  Just like the countries sending planes and offering to help teach the pilots.  Make it known we are sending them for them to help defend themselves.

 
thecatch said:
I don’t recall seeing anything stating that they are flying 0 cover operations and I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe they aren’t covering such a large and exposed force. 
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0 may be overstating it, but it's possible they lack the AAMs to do anything but waste fuel and risk getting popped by friendly fire or enemy stingers.  It's not out of the question Putin didn't bother buying enough AAM to do anything with considering there was no realistic air threat to manage that couldn't be done with SAMs.

 
UOFI_316 said:
 Why couldn't the US send some, with other military aid, and then also send a few people to teach the Ukrainians how to properly use them?  Just like the countries sending planes and offering to help teach the pilots.  Make it known we are sending them for them to help defend themselves.
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We seem to have REALLY short memories as to what happens with ####loads of gifted weapons/vehicles when the government on the receiving end is overrun... 

 
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The Don Lemon interview just now with the couple that just got married and are both now fighting was incredible. These people are amazing.

 
why on earth is the road that the convoy is on, still operable?  can't they blow it up?  and any and all ancillary roads as well?  once that convoy reaches kyiv, night night.

and on a side note, do neither of these countries have airplanes?  helicopters?  let alone drones?

this whole thing is so weird and surreal.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Kind of makes one wonder why we've been spending crap tons of money on our military all these years. 
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So your armed forces don’t look like the keystone cops?

[icon] said:
Russian Rubles now worth half a post-it note, 😂 
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What’s the difference between a dollar and a ruble?

A dollar

In all seriousness, I hope this ends quickly. Not only to end this stupid invasion and loss of life but to ease up on the Russian people who have it hard enough just making it day-to-day. Maybe this inspires them to rise up against the idiots raping their economy and helps them to finally see, this does not work.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
why on earth is the road that the convoy is on, still operable?  can't they blow it up?  and any and all ancillary roads as well?  once that convoy reaches kyiv, night night.

and on a side note, do neither of these countries have airplanes?  helicopters?  let alone drones?

this whole thing is so weird and surreal.
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Why so? Tanks in cities with high rises don’t fair well. Kyiv is a pretty huge city, that convoy is carrying enough to do some serious damage but it ain’t like the Ukrainians are gonna sit back and take it.

 
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