***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

<This is just awful> The divide is clear, deepening and international. For several U.S. born players, the increasing stature of Jermaine Jones, Danny Williams, Fabian Johnson and Chandler (and to a far lesser extent, Terrence Boyd)—all German born sons of American servicemen—is harming team chemistry.

I have wondered about this. IIRC the David Regis and David Wagner experiments didn't go so well for Steve Sampson for some of the same reasons.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

"Have you read Philipp Lahm's book?"

Said an unnamed player whose name rhymes with Cleve Ferundolo.Some of this is scary. With that said, JK seems to expect the players to be able to solve tactical problems themselves. Which means that Bradley or whoever should just step up and do it, I guess. Dempsey went to Bradley and told him he needed to be played closer to the goal. If there are defensive organization problems or if Bradley doesn't trust Jones or Williams or whatever, he should feel he's earned the stroke to go and tell Klinsmann the partnership he thinks will work.

One common refrain when he was hired was that he needs to have a Joachim Loew with him for his style to work. He was known to be weak on tactics. I don't know much about Vasquez, other than the fact that he was with Klinsmann at Bayern, which was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

ok I will ask the question.If the US loses both of the next games and has 0 points going into the June qualifiers, does Klinsmann get fired?Should Klinsmann get fired under such a situation?

I'm still inclined to say no, but I'm less inclined than usual. Because Klinsmann's method, for right or wrong, isn't concrete enough where the disturbance would be all that pronounced. I suppose it would depend on who they could get, but assuming that Arena would leave the Galaxy for another go round? You'd have to consider it. Whatever Bruce's faults, the team would have a tactical identity.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

" A different player said that at halftime of the qualifier in San Pedro Sula, with the U.S. fortunate to be level at 1-1, Klinsmann, “Didn’t really say that much. Just, ‘C’mon, we’ve got to win this game. They scored an unbelievable (tying) goal, and we can’t do anything about that. We’re going to win this game.’ It was never, ‘We need to do this. We need to change this.’ ”

There was a similar quote from ze Roberto regarding the loss which preceeded Klinsmanns mid-season sacking at Bayern. Down 0-1 at halftime, his lockerrom comment to the team consisted of Klinsmann saying, "you have to score a goal!"

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

One common refrain when he was hired was that he needs to have a Joachim Loew with him for his style to work. He was known to be weak on tactics. I don't know much about Vasquez, other than the fact that he was with Klinsmann at Bayern, which was an unmitigated disaster.

Yeah, I remember that Klinsmann was supposed to rotate assistants, but he used Vazquez, Dooley, and Ramos for that first Mexican qualifier and then settled immediately on Vazquez. I suspect either of the other two would have been better. I thought Ramos, in particular, did a great job of communicating exactly what tactical changes he wanted in the U20 qualifying. And it seems to me that Doooley might have some insight into coming into the team as a native German. I also can't believe that he'd have little to say about defensive organization. Another possible assistant that makes sense (and I'm stealing this from some guy on Big Soccer) is Steve Nicol.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

" A different player said that at halftime of the qualifier in San Pedro Sula, with the U.S. fortunate to be level at 1-1, Klinsmann, “Didn’t really say that much. Just, ‘C’mon, we’ve got to win this game. They scored an unbelievable (tying) goal, and we can’t do anything about that. We’re going to win this game.’ It was never, ‘We need to do this. We need to change this.’ ”

There was a similar quote from ze Roberto regarding the loss which preceeded Klinsmanns mid-season sacking at Bayern. Down 0-1 at halftime, his lockerrom comment to the team consisted of Klinsmann saying, "you have to score a goal!"

"Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, ..., turn!"

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Is Klinsmann like the Isiah Thomas of soccer?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

A lot of the anonymous comments don't bother me that much. Some of Klinsmann's own justifications bother me a bit more.

I don't see any benefit to not knowing the depth chart until the game. I'm not sure how that engenders competition. Every competitive group I've ever been a part of has had an established depth chart. So that the second tuba could set his sights on the first tuba (or offensive guard or whatever). And yeah, sometimes that depth chart is jerked around in practice to motivate the number one guy, but nobody chooses a new violin soloist on the night of the concert.

I also don't see how you can expect players to solve tactical problems unless you practice solving tactical problems. I do think there's a benefit to the team being able to tell when they're losing out to an extra man in midfield or whatever. But typically, I'd expect the coach to say, "here's how I want us to be handle this." Or at the very least, I want [bradley or Jones or whoever] to make the call over whether we're going to press or push a certain fullback up or whatever." You can't expect the players to just be able to pause the game like football manager and tinker out a solution.

I guess another fun thing about this article is that we get to play "name the Landon Donovan quote." (on second thought I'm replacing Dolo with Landon as the leader in the clubhouse for the Phillip Lahm jab).

 

[Good Posting Judge]

A lot of the anonymous comments don't bother me that much. Some of Klinsmann's own justifications bother me a bit more.I don't see any benefit to not knowing the depth chart until the game. I'm not sure how that engenders competition. Every competitive group I've ever been a part of has had an established depth chart. So that the second tuba could set his sights on the first tuba (or offensive guard or whatever). And yeah, sometimes that depth chart is jerked around in practice to motivate the number one guy, but nobody chooses a new violin soloist on the night of the concert. I also don't see how you can expect players to solve tactical problems unless you practice solving tactical problems. I do think there's a benefit to the team being able to tell when they're losing out to an extra man in midfield or whatever. But typically, I'd expect the coach to say, "here's how I want us to be handle this." Or at the very least, I want [bradley or Jones or whoever] to make the call over whether we're going to press or push a certain fullback up or whatever." You can't expect the players to just be able to pause the game like football manager and tinker out a solution.I guess another fun thing about this article is that we get to play "name the Landon Donovan quote." (on second thought I'm replacing Dolo with Landon as the leader in the clubhouse for the Phillip Lahm jab).

Landon seems like a well-read guy. That article brings back bad memories of Singletary as the HC for SF. World-class player, big on motivation, completely lacking on the tactical side. The "go out there and express yourself" comment is frightening.

 

[NewlyRetired]

ok I will ask the question.If the US loses both of the next games and has 0 points going into the June qualifiers, does Klinsmann get fired?Should Klinsmann get fired under such a situation?

I'm still inclined to say no, but I'm less inclined than usual. Because Klinsmann's method, for right or wrong, isn't concrete enough where the disturbance would be all that pronounced. I suppose it would depend on who they could get, but assuming that Arena would leave the Galaxy for another go round? You'd have to consider it. Whatever Bruce's faults, the team would have a tactical identity.

I also thought about Arena butI am not sure Arena would do that. He is in likely his last job before retiring and his position in US Soccer history is solid. I am not sure why he would leave the best job in the US to take on what might be considered a near impossible task. Of course almost any coach they try to hire would have that same issue. I noticed that Gus Hiddink might be available after this Euro season is over.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Mildly amusing soccer anecdote. My wife is not much of a soccer fan. She know I'm obsessed. She knows that Arsenal always loses when it counts. She knows the teams with cool color schemes. And she knows who Messi and Ronaldo are, but that's about it.

Anyway, last night, out of the blue, she asked me "is Alexi Lalas kind of a p***k?"

She had apparently seen him on the Colbert Report.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I guess another fun thing about this article is that we get to play "name the Landon Donovan quote." (on second thought I'm replacing Dolo with Landon as the leader in the clubhouse for the Phillip Lahm jab).

Maybe its just me but not a single one of those comments sound like Landon. They are definitely from a vet though, especially all of the Boca comments.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I noticed that Gus Hiddink might be available after this Euro season is over.

I think bringing in an overseas guy who doesn't know the players like the back of his hand already would be a colossal mistake in the middle of the cycle. I think you'd need to either bring in an old hand who was willing to do it, or just offer it to Kreis or someone with the understanding that he'd get a second qualifying chance no matter what.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Mildly amusing soccer anecdote. My wife is not much of a soccer fan. She know I'm obsessed. She knows that Arsenal always loses when it counts. She knows the teams with cool color schemes. And she knows who Messi and Ronaldo are, but that's about it.Anyway, last night, out of the blue, she asked me "is Alexi Lalas kind of a p***k?"She had apparently seen him on the Colbert Report.

I did not see the episode but everyone who did said Lalas came off terribly at the end, almost as if he forgot it was scripted parody.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I noticed that Gus Hiddink might be available after this Euro season is over.

I think bringing in an overseas guy who doesn't know the players like the back of his hand already would be a colossal mistake in the middle of the cycle. I think you'd need to either bring in an old hand who was willing to do it, or just offer it to Kreis or someone with the understanding that he'd get a second qualifying chance no matter what.

To be honest I don't think it would matter much. 0 points in June and still having to go to Saprissa is not the recipe for anyone to succeed.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I guess another fun thing about this article is that we get to play "name the Landon Donovan quote." (on second thought I'm replacing Dolo with Landon as the leader in the clubhouse for the Phillip Lahm jab).

Maybe its just me but not a single one of those comments sound like Landon. They are definitely from a vet though, especially all of the Boca comments.

Yeah. That's why I thought Dolo was probably a source. I feel for Boca, who's been a warrior and a great Nat. And I certainly think it's weird to spring it on him on game day. But I don't otherwise feel that he was owed a starting position or anything.

 

[Slapdash]

Mildly amusing soccer anecdote. My wife is not much of a soccer fan. She know I'm obsessed. She knows that Arsenal always loses when it counts. She knows the teams with cool color schemes. And she knows who Messi and Ronaldo are, but that's about it.Anyway, last night, out of the blue, she asked me "is Alexi Lalas kind of a p***k?"She had apparently seen him on the Colbert Report.

You're wife sounds smart, Lalas is unbearable.

 

[NewlyRetired]

“We need more guys around who understand what it takes to get through these games, knowing what the meaning of going to Honduras away, where the pitch is going to be (crap), the weather is going to be bad and you have to do everything you can,” a player said.

This one really hit home for me. It is impossible for the German born guys to grasp this IMO. To them, a trip into Guat, or El Salvador etc should be equivalent to the luxury vacations they have watched the big Euro teams take in qualifying to Malta, San Marino, Andorra, Armenia etc. It just does not work that way in Concacaf. You have these small countries declaring national holidays where their sole purpose is to make the visiting teams as uncomfortable as possible.

 

[Slapdash]

Really rough article re Klinsmann by Brian Strauss at Sporting News today. It sucks when the criticsm is all from anonymous players, but much of it rings true and is consistent with our concerns over the past several years since he was hired. "Have you read Philipp Lahm's book?" Ouch!

That is very ungood.

 

[Christo]

Holy crap. Should we be wishing for two losses in the next week?

 

[NewlyRetired]

This is as much disarray as I ever remember around the national team.

The only other time that comes close was when Harkes thought it would be great for team morale to dip his pen into Mrs Wynalda's ink well.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I wish Floppo was still around. I would love to see his take on the last week or so of happenings regarding the US National Team.

 

[Moe.]

Yuck. Just fire him now and get it over with.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Yuck. Just fire him now and get it over with.

I'm kind of in this camp. Maybe fire everyone up and catch their attention. Win won for the _______, and all that.

 

[Moe.]

I have to say, it feels really good to overreact to an article like that and call for the firing of our coach on a message board. Is this how we know the sport has truly arrived?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I have to say, it feels really good to overreact to an article like that and call for the firing of our coach on a message board. Is this how we know the sport has truly arrived?

I dunno. Half the board at Big Soccer was calling for the dismissal of either Arena or Bradley for three cycles. This does feel different though. We are smarter, have a more cultured left foot, and are better looking than they are though. So it probably counts double or something when we do it.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Pardon my rambling...

This was always the dilemma with bringing in someone like a JK who may be able to improve the Nats' stature amongst higher level competition. And you saw it happen to a degree last year (Azteca, Italy, etc).

But the problem is and always will be that first you have to survive the gauntlet of CONCACAF thugball to even get that opportunity for real. And I don't think that's a style switch that can just be turned on and off, at least not based on our level of talent. Plus, JK lost a year of putting in his "system" since Bradley was retained until the 11 gold cup instead of at the end of the WC cycle.

I guess the overall question to me was are Nat fans willing to take one step back (i.e. not qualify for a cycle) to MAYBE take two future steps forward (better overall development of the program). I doubted fans at the time were willing to risk missing a WC for the greater good, and if people are calling for JK's head after a CR non-win, I think we'll have our answer.

Note: this isn't even necessarily about JK, it could apply to any outiside the norm coach hire. It's really about the US Soccer program as a whole and where it's headed and where the fans really want it to go.

 

[Moe.]

I have to say, it feels really good to overreact to an article like that and call for the firing of our coach on a message board. Is this how we know the sport has truly arrived?

I dunno. Half the board at Big Soccer was calling for the dismissal of either Arena or Bradley for three cycles. This does feel different though. We are smarter, have a more cultured left foot, and are better looking than they are though. So it probably counts double or something when we do it.

Yeah screw those losers.

 

[Moe.]

Pardon my rambling...This was always the dilemma with bringing in someone like a JK who may be able to improve the Nats' stature amongst higher level competition. And you saw it happen to a degree last year (Azteca, Italy, etc).But the problem is and always will be that first you have to survive the gauntlet of CONCACAF thugball to even get that opportunity for real. And I don't think that's a style switch that can just be turned on and off, at least not based on our level of talent. Plus, JK lost a year of putting in his "system" since Bradley was retained until the 11 gold cup instead of at the end of the WC cycle.I guess the overall question to me was are Nat fans willing to take one step back (i.e. not qualify for a cycle) to MAYBE take two future steps forward (better overall development of the program). I doubted fans at the time were willing to risk missing a WC for the greater good, and if people are calling for JK's head after a CR non-win, I think we'll have our answer.Note: this isn't even necessarily about JK, it could apply to any outiside the norm coach hire. It's really about the US Soccer program as a whole and where it's headed and where the fans really want it to go.

I dunno, I know CONCACAF is better but I feel like we shouldn't have to miss out on a WC for better overall development of the program, those things should be able to happen simultaneously.

 

[Slapdash]

Pardon my rambling...This was always the dilemma with bringing in someone like a JK who may be able to improve the Nats' stature amongst higher level competition. And you saw it happen to a degree last year (Azteca, Italy, etc).But the problem is and always will be that first you have to survive the gauntlet of CONCACAF thugball to even get that opportunity for real. And I don't think that's a style switch that can just be turned on and off, at least not based on our level of talent. Plus, JK lost a year of putting in his "system" since Bradley was retained until the 11 gold cup instead of at the end of the WC cycle.I guess the overall question to me was are Nat fans willing to take one step back (i.e. not qualify for a cycle) to MAYBE take two future steps forward (better overall development of the program). I doubted fans at the time were willing to risk missing a WC for the greater good, and if people are calling for JK's head after a CR non-win, I think we'll have our answer.Note: this isn't even necessarily about JK, it could apply to any outiside the norm coach hire. It's really about the US Soccer program as a whole and where it's headed and where the fans really want it to go.

I don't understand why playing mind-games with players and ignoring tactics is part of developing the team.

 

[Christo]

Pardon my rambling...This was always the dilemma with bringing in someone like a JK who may be able to improve the Nats' stature amongst higher level competition. And you saw it happen to a degree last year (Azteca, Italy, etc).But the problem is and always will be that first you have to survive the gauntlet of CONCACAF thugball to even get that opportunity for real. And I don't think that's a style switch that can just be turned on and off, at least not based on our level of talent. Plus, JK lost a year of putting in his "system" since Bradley was retained until the 11 gold cup instead of at the end of the WC cycle.I guess the overall question to me was are Nat fans willing to take one step back (i.e. not qualify for a cycle) to MAYBE take two future steps forward (better overall development of the program). I doubted fans at the time were willing to risk missing a WC for the greater good, and if people are calling for JK's head after a CR non-win, I think we'll have our answer.Note: this isn't even necessarily about JK, it could apply to any outiside the norm coach hire. It's really about the US Soccer program as a whole and where it's headed and where the fans really want it to go.

I dunno, I know CONCACAF is better but I feel like we shouldn't have to miss out on a WC for better overall development of the program, those things should be able to happen simultaneously.

Especially when most everyone agrees that it'll take a systemic change to really get us to the next level. Revamp the system from the bottom up. But leave the current NT alone. The best thing at the top level is success on the field.

 

[NewlyRetired]

One other thing I have noticed in our current group of players is that it appears to be missing a common characteristic of other cycles, that being of a certain character. This cycle had produced games in which comments like "the US is not running", "the US looks tired", "the US seems to have given up", which are horrifying considering those used to be the US's strengths.

Where are the current group players who represent what players like Ching, or Sanneh or Frankie brought to the team? None of those players were as talented as players today, but all of them had a certain level of character that they gave literally everything they had. You could find the fan who hated Frankie the most and you could never get him to even mention once that Frankie did not leave everything on the field when he played for the US.

Hell, even one of the worst players to have ever played for the US in a qualifier, Connor Casey, found a way to be active and helped the team to a huge win in Honduras last hex.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

One other thing I have noticed in our current group of players is that it appears to be missing a common characteristic of other cycles, that being of a certain character. This cycle had produced games in which comments like "the US is not running", "the US looks tired", "the US seems to have given up", which are horrifying considering those used to be the US's strengths. Where are the current group players who represent what players like Ching, or Sanneh or Frankie brought to the team? None of those players were as talented as players today, but all of them had a certain level of character that they gave literally everything they had. You could find the fan who hated Frankie the most and you could never get him to even mention once that Frankie did not leave everything on the field when he played for the US. Hell, even one of the worst players to have ever played for the US in a qualifier, Connor Casey, found a way to be active and helped the team to a huge win in Honduras last hex.

To the extent that JK has a system, I think that's kind of natural. When he played for the Diplomats, Johan Cruyuff's chief complaint was the NASL players "ran too much." It drove him nuts. He thought it was a sign of not reading the game correctly in the first place. I think that explains to a certain extent why JK seems to like Beckerman more than the fans do (I'm kind of on JK's side on this one). Beckerman doesn't look to be putting in as much effort as Edu or even Williams on his day (to say nothing of Rico Clark, who may suck at soccer but who has a workrate second to none). But Beckerman is almost always where he needs to be. I don't know whether he can do it against top class competition, but he's still put in the best performances wearing the #6 shirt that I've seen in Klinsmann's tenure. I think we still have high energy guys in Bradley and Cameron. And even Dolo. Certainly having Deuce and Jozy up front at the same time is going to sap some workrate. Neither are really known for putting themselves about the way Boyd does. I also think it's fair to say that Jones hasn't really been the type of all-action guy we expected.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Guys who are more familiar with the USMNT than I am: We'd be better off with more of a counter-attacking style (4-2-3-1 or 4-2-2) than a possession-based 4-3-3, no?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Guys who are more familiar with the USMNT than I am: We'd be better off with more of a counter-attacking style (4-2-3-1 or 4-2-2) than a possession-based 4-3-3, no?

From the article

And a fourth posed the biggest question of all: Is the U.S. even ready to play the style Klinsmann wants to see?“They want us to play the beautiful game, but we’re not a technical team like the Germans. We’re not Spain or Brazil,” the player said. “What we’re good at is we work hard, we fight and we compete. We have great athletes and we’re a good counterattacking team. Maybe we need to go back to what we’re good at.”

 

[T Bell]

Mildly amusing soccer anecdote. My wife is not much of a soccer fan. She know I'm obsessed. She knows that Arsenal always loses when it counts. She knows the teams with cool color schemes. And she knows who Messi and Ronaldo are, but that's about it.Anyway, last night, out of the blue, she asked me "is Alexi Lalas kind of a p***k?"She had apparently seen him on the Colbert Report.

That's like asking if the sun is kind of hot.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Brad Davis has been added to the roster. I assume this is due to Shea not really being anywhere near 100%.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I had forgotten about this until todays article dropped. This is from late 2011

Journeyman questions Klinsmann's inclusion of 'fake Americans'

PUBLISHED Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 2:47 pm EST

Until this week, Preston Zimmerman was a relatively unknown journeyman, a player who left Pasco, Wash., as a teenager to try his luck in Europe before spending five years bouncing around Germany’s lower tiers.

Then on Wednesday, he suddenly was the talk of the American soccer community. The 23-year-old, who now plays as a midfielder for SV Darmstadt 98 in the 3. Fußball-Liga (third division), unleashed an astonishing Twitter tirade against U.S. national team coach Jurgen Klinsmann and the foreign-born players he has recently called in.

“I thought it would be cool getting Klinsmann as U.S. national team coach, but I think it's actually worse than when (Bob) Bradley was coach,” Zimmerman began.

Then the former U.S. Under-20 player went no-holds barred in his rant.

“Requirements to get on U.S. national team under Klinsmann: Be a fake American, be born outside the U.S., have one U.S. distant relative," Zimmerman wrote. "I see the team is calling in guys who are really Germans who know they've got no chance of playing for Germany so they'll settle with the U.S. That's embarrassing when a good friend of mine says he met one of the guys at the airport and he couldn't reply back in English as U.S. national (team) player.”

One of the notable trends under Klinsmann, who coached his first U.S. game in August, has been the inclusion of German-born players who qualify to represent the U.S. thanks to an American parent. Fabian Johnson and Danny Williams are the notable newcomers on the senior team -- Timmy Chandler debuted under Bradley -- while a handful of younger players are under consideration for the Under-23/Olympic team managed by Caleb Porter.

“Don't mistake any of my tweets for jealousy; I never expect to be called in or involved with anything, and it doesn't hurt my feelings,” Zimmerman wrote. “I would just like to see true, real Americans who would live and die for this country representing our country. But when the Olympic team holds mini-camps in Germany with all ‘European players,' then something is wrong. The kids in college are just as good, if not better, than some of the kids from the (German club) reserve teams getting invited to camp. But the college kids don't speak German and they don't have ties outside the U.S., so they don't qualify for the U.S. under Klinsmann.”

An Under-23 camp in November was conducted in Germany without Porter, who was coaching the University of Akron, and featured a host of Europe-based players with U.S. eligibility. Several players who likely will contribute to the Olympic effort were unavailable at that time because of MLS commitments. This month’s recent U-23 camp in Florida included five foreign-born players. Porter will gather the team again in January at The Home Depot Center outside Los Angeles.

“If Klinsmann were winning and very successful with his approach, then my words would carry no weight," Zimmerman wrote. "But I don't see any success. Squeaking out 1-0 wins against CONCACAF villages isn't success. People can bash me for whatever reason, but I hate seeing my country's national team being misused and disrespected.

“Klinsmann just wants to let everyone know he's in charge; a U.S. team needs to comprise of real Americans. I know plenty of guys who are in the MLS and know what it's like to play for their country who deserve a look for the U.S. team. I hope the U.S. team wins and dominates just as much as anybody else because it's my country and I want my country to be No. 1 and dominate. Don't want anybody to take my tweets negatively or as criticism to make somebody look bad; I just have passion and interest in the U.S. team.”

Last week, Klinsmann named a 20-man roster for his January training camp and the exhibitions against Venezuela and Panama. All are U.S.-born. The new coach is 2-4-1, with wins over Honduras and Slovenia. In a conversation with Sporting News last month, he addressed the foreign-born national team player issue.

“It’s a different part of American culture. It’s the global picture that America represents,” Klinsmann told Sporting News before a match in Paris. “Those are kids who came through military families or for whatever reasons, working reasons of their parents, then they grow up with a different educational system, which gives them in soccer terms an edge ahead of American kids growing up in the U.S.”

Klinsmann stressed that players like Johnson and Williams are Americans, too.

“But those kids, they have a very special connection to the U.S. no matter where they’re born," the coach said. "The opportunity to represent the U.S. on the soccer field is another big emotional piece of their connection to their country. Now you live in this dual-citizenship world that is normal. It’s globalization. It’s just the way it is. If you’re Mexican-American or you’re coming from the Caribbean, South America or Europe, everyone has a special connection to the United States. That shows you the path of the U.S. Not only that it’s a country of immigrants into the U.S., but it’s also an export country. It goes both ways.

 

[Slapdash]

“Those are kids who came through military families or for whatever reasons, working reasons of their parents, then they grow up with a different educational system, which gives them in soccer terms an edge ahead of American kids growing up in the U.S.”

This is particularly intersting.

 

[NewlyRetired]

“Those are kids who came through military families or for whatever reasons, working reasons of their parents, then they grow up with a different educational system, which gives them in soccer terms an edge ahead of American kids growing up in the U.S.”

This is particularly intersting.

I think it gives both an edge and a disadvantage. As I mentioned before(and was mentioned in the article by an anon player), any kid growing up here playing soccer in the national team structure knows the hell that Concacaf is. No one growing up in Germany with little to no ties to the youth national teams is going to get it before it is too late.

 

[NewlyRetired]

By the way, this would probably be a very bad time to mention that the current Concacaf reffing, in regards to the US, has been the best of any cycle I can remember. If it ever returns to form, especially on the road, well.........

 

[NewlyRetired]

Boca responds to the controversy

During the last 18 months Jurgen has introduced a lot of new ideas to the team and has a vision of how he wants to grow the program. Every coach around the world has his own style and methods. He has always been up front with players about where they stand and where he sees them going.Not every player is going to be happy with all of the decisions and methods, but he will tell you to your face where you stand. From a coach, that is the best thing you could ask for.One of the greatest strengths of this team has always been our unity and spirit, and we all remain committed to the cause of qualifying for the World Cup.

 

[Sebowski]

<This is just awful> The divide is clear, deepening and international. For several U.S. born players, the increasing stature of Jermaine Jones, Danny Williams, Fabian Johnson and Chandler (and to a far lesser extent, Terrence Boyd)—all German born sons of American servicemen—is harming team chemistry.“They stay to themselves. Jermaine is the leader, and the rest of them follow him,” one player said. “I don’t know if they don’t care."“It’s like they’re here and they enjoy it, but they don’t care as much as you should to play for the national team,” said another player.

And how many of those guys are on the team for the next two crucial games of the cycle? For me this particular call out tarnishes the entire integrity of the article and criticism in it.

 

[Sebowski]

Pardon my rambling...This was always the dilemma with bringing in someone like a JK who may be able to improve the Nats' stature amongst higher level competition. And you saw it happen to a degree last year (Azteca, Italy, etc).But the problem is and always will be that first you have to survive the gauntlet of CONCACAF thugball to even get that opportunity for real. And I don't think that's a style switch that can just be turned on and off, at least not based on our level of talent. Plus, JK lost a year of putting in his "system" since Bradley was retained until the 11 gold cup instead of at the end of the WC cycle.I guess the overall question to me was are Nat fans willing to take one step back (i.e. not qualify for a cycle) to MAYBE take two future steps forward (better overall development of the program). I doubted fans at the time were willing to risk missing a WC for the greater good, and if people are calling for JK's head after a CR non-win, I think we'll have our answer.Note: this isn't even necessarily about JK, it could apply to any outiside the norm coach hire. It's really about the US Soccer program as a whole and where it's headed and where the fans really want it to go.

I agree with the heart of this. And I don't understand why anyone would think there is a benefit to firing JK by next week regardless of what happens. We are pot committed at this point. This is his cycle. An early termination won't prove anything. I'd argue it would do more harm than good. JK has the keys and the directions. We need to see if he can get there in the allotted time before we kick him out of the moving car and veer it into a ravine for the temporary satisfaction of taking away his control of the vehicle. This article is ridiculous to me. I just want to get up to 85mph back to this morning when Scooby was telling us how great we could be....

 

[Sebowski]

I still think that this is a talented lineup. And as noted soccer expert Robert Griffin III would say, "no pressure, no diamonds."I don't mind putting some heavy pressure on Gonzo and Cameron and possibly blooding a new guy (and I think Morrow is a better player than Bornstein was). Necessity is the mother of invention. For all we know, this is the moment when Joe Corona announces his presence in the international game. Or that Bradley and Jones show they can play the double pivot. Or that Gonzo proves himself to be the center back he seems to have the physical skills to be. Or that Jozy puts it all together (JK might be forced to field a lineup designed to get Jozy service in space).It would be nice to have Donovan. And Johnson (although I'd actually like to find someone else for LB and play Fabian in a more attacking role as I still think he's a talented attacking player who can play some fullback more than a natural fullback based on what I've seen with the Nats and the Hoff). I'm looking forward to Friday. This is a chance to find some new leaders. I fully expect Bradley to play like he has a pine marten down his shorts.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pardon my rambling...This was always the dilemma with bringing in someone like a JK who may be able to improve the Nats' stature amongst higher level competition. And you saw it happen to a degree last year (Azteca, Italy, etc).But the problem is and always will be that first you have to survive the gauntlet of CONCACAF thugball to even get that opportunity for real. And I don't think that's a style switch that can just be turned on and off, at least not based on our level of talent. Plus, JK lost a year of putting in his "system" since Bradley was retained until the 11 gold cup instead of at the end of the WC cycle.I guess the overall question to me was are Nat fans willing to take one step back (i.e. not qualify for a cycle) to MAYBE take two future steps forward (better overall development of the program). I doubted fans at the time were willing to risk missing a WC for the greater good, and if people are calling for JK's head after a CR non-win, I think we'll have our answer.Note: this isn't even necessarily about JK, it could apply to any outiside the norm coach hire. It's really about the US Soccer program as a whole and where it's headed and where the fans really want it to go.

I agree with the heart of this. And I don't understand why anyone would think there is a benefit to firing JK by next week regardless of what happens. We are pot committed at this point. This is his cycle. An early termination won't prove anything. I'd argue it would do more harm than good. JK has the keys and the directions. We need to see if he can get there in the allotted time before we kick him out of the moving car and veer it into a ravine for the temporary satisfaction of taking away his control of the vehicle. This article is ridiculous to me. I just want to get up to 85mph back to this morning when Scooby was telling us how great we could be....

How can there be a disruption if (assuming the article is true) the guy in charge has no idea or consistent gameplan, tactically speaking? It's not about "proving" anything per se, it's about qualifying for the World Cup. Qualify = success, don't qualify = failure.I also see the benefit in advancing Cameron and Gonzalez by throwing them into the fire, but part of getting better via experience is learning from mistakes. And we're already at the stage where there isn't much room for mistakes. And I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but leaving Bocanegra off the team completely is just simply counter-productive in every way. Don't start him, OK, but leaving him off the roster is just awful for morale.If by some weird hypothetical scenario, firing JK and bringing in someone new would guarantee 3 points against CR, and leaving him in there would guarantee a loss, I'd blow him out and take the points.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

In some unexpectedly decent news. Saborio is doubtful for Costa Rica with a knee injury. So I guess Arrieta would start.

 

[berndog]

Here is a good article on the 1989 Qualifying game vs Costa Rico.

Article

We've come a long way since '89 but obviously still have a long way to go. I hope this squad can capture the spirit and pride the 89 team showed.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I noticed that Gus Hiddink might be available after this Euro season is over.

I think bringing in an overseas guy who doesn't know the players like the back of his hand already would be a colossal mistake in the middle of the cycle. I think you'd need to either bring in an old hand who was willing to do it, or just offer it to Kreis or someone with the understanding that he'd get a second qualifying chance no matter what.

 

[NewlyRetired]

In some unexpectedly decent news. Saborio is doubtful for Costa Rica with a knee injury. So I guess Arrieta would start.