***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

[Slapdash]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is a good point. Sturridge was woefully under-utilized for years, and the same thing is happening to Lukaku.

Neither Sturridge or Lukaku were products of the Chelsea academy.

And I don't think that this "ruins" the youth system. That's just a reality of top European clubs. Youth team players rarely come up and get first team minutes for Real Madrid or for Bayern anymore. It's becoming increasingly rare at Barcelona, who are about to lose the guy we've all considered their star of the future for the past 4 years now. The game has changed and smart teams will now sell off their best academy players with generous buy-back clauses so that they can prove themselves against better competition and still be available at a good price if they succeed.

It's just a weird complaint. What did Chelsea's academy system ever win them?

There was a game this past year where all 11 guys on the field were from La Masia.

I'm betting they do whatever they can to get Thiago to stay. Tello is going to get his share of starts and I see him as the 3rd guy in that front crazy frontline. Bartra will also get his minutes.

Barca just paid 57 million for Neymar. They've signed Sanchez, Pedro, Villa, Cesc (for all relevant purposes as they certainly paid a big transfer fee), Song, Mascherano, Alba, Dani Alves. They're going to find their next keeper from outside of the system. If they bring in Luiz or Thiago Silva or any number of the other CB targets they've been linked to, it will block Bartra's development as well.

It's absolutely becoming more rare at Barca.

EDIT: Which isn't a slag on Barca. The last great can't miss La Masia star was Bojan, who absolutely lit it up for Barca B. He actually had a great first year in La Liga before losing his spot to to Pedro and falling off the radar. They couldn't afford to develop him in the first team. I just think those days are over. If you're not the finished article, I don't see how you can expect to start for a top team.

Pedro, Cesc, and Alba have all been through the Barca youth system. That is "homegrown talent" in my eyes. Even if they had to spend to bring them back. Part of what what makes that youth program great is the loyalty it engrains. After they leave some of them make it their goal to go it back.

When did Pedro ever leave Barcelona?

This whole arguement seems pretty silly about Barcelona given how many players are on the current squad from the youth system. Thiago has been getting similar time to what Xavi and Iniesta had at that age. Bojan had plenty of chances in the first team at Barcelona, Roma, and Milan. It has never been the case where players from La Masia didn't need to beat out the hired guns to start. Busquets, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, and Pique all had to unseat very good signees for their spots.

 

[Sebowski]

Paulinho on his way to Spurs. A midfield of him/Sandro/Dembele will be nice. Still no strikers though.

I noticed you didn't mention Dempsey

 

[GoFishTN]

Is Joe Kinnear for real?

“I don’t know any other ex-managers who have. I’ve been a manager for 35 years. I’ve been Manager of the Year. I’ve won every award there is in football as a player. I think all those qualities put me head and shoulders above every other director of football.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/joe-kinnear-insists-he-is-head-and-shoulders-above-every-other-director-of-football-in-premier-league-8682945.html

 

[GoFishTN]

Paulinho on his way to Spurs. A midfield of him/Sandro/Dembele will be nice. Still no strikers though.

I noticed you didn't mention Dempsey

I think he's a good player for cover, but rumor is AVB is willing to let him go.

 

[Bonzai]

I'd consider Manchester United a serious title contender.

Who has been there through their academy that is on this team? Evans and Cleverly?

United have a long history of relying on their youth system. The backbone of SAF's run was built on youth players (Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville). I don't see that changing under Moyes. I've read that his commitment to the youth system was a big part of bringing him in instead of the "flashier" options available. Sure, Fletcher, Evans, Cleverly, and Welbeck don't stack up to the last crop, but I don't think that means that United will abandon their philosophy of developing and relying on youth.

 

[B-Deep]

Does this thread include bubble soccer discussion?

 

[Native]

Notwithstanding starting its own thread, I couldnt imagine a better place to discuss it.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Spain needs Javi Martinez in their midfield against these physical teams.

Del Bosque doesn't exactly run a meritocracy. Martinez is better than Pique. Villa, at least I think, is better than Torres. Xabi's a better option than Xavi at this point.

Spain obviously has depth coming out of its ears, and it's still going to be one of the favorites next year. But I think some changes are going to have to be made between now and then if they want a different result against a team like Brazil.

The factionalism within the team seems to be a problem that was mostly created by Mou. With him gone, I think things will settle down. Xabi and Iker are professionals, I don't think they're going to stir up ####.

 

[Native]

Spain needs Javi Martinez in their midfield against these physical teams.

Del Bosque doesn't exactly run a meritocracy. Martinez is better than Pique. Villa, at least I think, is better than Torres. Xabi's a better option than Xavi at this point.

Spain obviously has depth coming out of its ears, and it's still going to be one of the favorites next year. But I think some changes are going to have to be made between now and then if they want a different result against a team like Brazil.

The factionalism within the team seems to be a problem that was mostly created by Mou. With him gone, I think things will settle down. Xabi and Iker are professionals, I don't think they're going to stir up ####.

How pissed do you think the Barca guys were that Ramos took (and missed) the PK vs Brazil?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Spain needs Javi Martinez in their midfield against these physical teams.

Del Bosque doesn't exactly run a meritocracy. Martinez is better than Pique. Villa, at least I think, is better than Torres. Xabi's a better option than Xavi at this point.

Spain obviously has depth coming out of its ears, and it's still going to be one of the favorites next year. But I think some changes are going to have to be made between now and then if they want a different result against a team like Brazil.

The factionalism within the team seems to be a problem that was mostly created by Mou. With him gone, I think things will settle down. Xabi and Iker are professionals, I don't think they're going to stir up ####.

How pissed do you think the Barca guys were that Ramos took (and missed) the PK vs Brazil?

The linked picture several posts up of Xavi says it all. I don't get Ramos' shtick about needing to take PK's and bullying his way into them.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

My understanding is that Ramos and Casillas both angered Mourinho by refusing to buy into the Barca enmity. To the point of refusing to speak to Xabi after they thought he went over the line in one of the Classicos. That also explains why Mourinho always played Xabi and why Xabi had said he didn't want to play for Real anymore after last year. He appears to have been a Mourinho guy.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Does this thread include bubble soccer discussion?

It can if you want it to.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

"I have two sorrows when it comes to Pelé, first because I never saw him play and secondly because I have to hear him talk."

http://www.dailydot.com/news/pele-world-cup-protests-footage/?utm_source=outbrainRSS&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MainRSS

 

[Txns8]

Does this thread include bubble soccer discussion?

It can if you want it to.

How about http://www.footgolf.info/?

 

[Sebowski]

"I have two sorrows when it comes to Pelé, first because I never saw him play and secondly because I have to hear him talk."

http://www.dailydot.com/news/pele-world-cup-protests-footage/?utm_source=outbrainRSS&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MainRSS

Awesome.

 

[Sebowski]

American Outlaw presale for the Mexico game in Columbus went on sale today. Site kept crashing. Tried for 45mins then gave up for 30. Then got in!. I'll be in Columbus Ohio on September 10th to watch us kick Mexico's ### and clinch a spot to Brasil. Anyone else going?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Jonjo Shelvey signs for Swansea.

Pic

What a maddeningly frustrating player. So much promise once second, only to look lost, or take a silly red card the next. Good luck, Jonjo. I'll miss the Voldemort comparisons.

 

[Ignoramus]

American Outlaw presale for the Mexico game in Columbus went on sale today. Site kept crashing. Tried for 45mins then gave up for 30. Then got in!. I'll be in Columbus Ohio on September 10th to watch us kick Mexico's ### and clinch a spot to Brasil. Anyone else going?

Nice.

 

[Steve Tasker]

American Outlaw presale for the Mexico game in Columbus went on sale today. Site kept crashing. Tried for 45mins then gave up for 30. Then got in!. I'll be in Columbus Ohio on September 10th to watch us kick Mexico's ### and clinch a spot to Brasil. Anyone else going?

I really wish that wasn't a weeknight.

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

 

[The Gator]

Jonjo Shelvey signs for Swansea.

Pic

What a maddeningly frustrating player. So much promise once second, only to look lost, or take a silly red card the next. Good luck, Jonjo. I'll miss the Voldemort comparisons.

GLllllll Jonjo

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is a good point. Sturridge was woefully under-utilized for years, and the same thing is happening to Lukaku.

Do any other teams do this to the same extent? Chelsea has an entire squad of foreign youth talent on perma-loan. Its a talented group, but given how many of their players are bought outright most of them will be left out in the cold as well. Their actual youth squad is completely irrelevant.

This seems like a rather unique development system. I can't think of anyone else that does this to the same extent.

Its pretty infuriating if you ask me. Dont know why the buy all these kids and never give them a chance at first team football. Rather than buying Cavani or Rooney, why not finally give Lukaku a chance? Same with De Bruyne. A few years ago, Gael Kakuta was the best youth prospect at Chelsea, but we loaned him out every year while we bought 8-10 attacking mid's - everyone from superstars such as Hazard and Mata to head scratchers such as Marko Marin and Benayoun. He was never even given a fair chance.

I prefer buyng young talent instead of expensive established stars. But only if the team gives them a chance to prove themselves, which for whatever reason the team rarely does.

It sounds like Lukaku is being given a chance this year. Sturridge started quite a bit under AVB. One reason why this happens is because Chelsea changes managers often, and manager's don't want to pay the price for someone else's guy (Mourinho strikes me as actually better about this than most).

But the fact of the matter is that Chelsea isn't going to be a team that allows it's manager to develop young players. No team that is seriously expected to seriously challenge for trophies is. The stakes are too high. The closest team toward the top of the Prem is Arsenal, and we all agree that Arsenal isn't a serious title contender. In part because they've often relied on a Denilson or a Djourou who just wasn't good enough.

I'd consider Manchester United a serious title contender.

And don't forget that Arsenal has spent 10 years paying on its own for a brand new stadium. They're going to start being more active in the transfer market now.

One more reason to remember that history didn't start 10 years ago.

 

[T Bell]

Is Joe Kinnear for real?

“I don’t know any other ex-managers who have. I’ve been a manager for 35 years. I’ve been Manager of the Year. I’ve won every award there is in football as a player. I think all those qualities put me head and shoulders above every other director of football.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/joe-kinnear-insists-he-is-head-and-shoulders-above-every-other-director-of-football-in-premier-league-8682945.html

He's certainly entertaining, ain't he?

The more I read the more I think "alcoholic". He's Brian Cough, only a lot less intelligent.

 

[jonessed]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

Chelsea has an additional layer of young, foreign loan players. Someone put together a complete squad of Chelsea loanees that looked like it could compete for mid-table. They had over 20 players out on loan last year.

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

Chelsea has an additional layer of young, foreign loan players. Someone put together a complete squad of Chelsea loanees that looked like it could compete for mid-table. They had over 20 players out on loan last year.

And? Are any of those players going to see the light of day at Stamford Bridge?

 

[Slapdash]

Speaking of youth: Former Barcelona player Marc Muniesa signed with Stoke City yesterday. Never was able to make the team, injures set him back a good deal. Hopefully he does well. I remember him getting sent off in his very first senior squad game.

 

[Plorfu]

My dad's going to Ireland today. He asked me what I wanted and I decided he could buy me a soccer jersey. So, I decided I need to swear allegiance to a team now and maybe try and follow it. I landed on St. Patrick's Athletic. What are some good resources for following Irish soccer? I mean, I could Google it but F that.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Speaking of youth: Former Barcelona player Marc Muniesa signed with Stoke City yesterday. Never was able to make the team, injures set him back a good deal. Hopefully he does well. I remember him getting sent off in his very first senior squad game.

So you're saying he'll fit in well beside Shawcross? I wonder if this means the Cameron at fullback experiment is over.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

My dad's going to Ireland today. He asked me what I wanted and I decided he could buy me a soccer jersey. So, I decided I need to swear allegiance to a team now and maybe try and follow it. I landed on St. Patrick's Athletic. What are some good resources for following Irish soccer? I mean, I could Google it but F that.

You'd probably be fine with the official Airtricity League site. www.airtricityleague.ie

 

[T Bell]

My dad's going to Ireland today. He asked me what I wanted and I decided he could buy me a soccer jersey. So, I decided I need to swear allegiance to a team now and maybe try and follow it. I landed on St. Patrick's Athletic. What are some good resources for following Irish soccer? I mean, I could Google it but F that.

I don't know whether they carry Irish league games, but this site carries live streams to many European and other soccer matches.

A word of caution: I wouldn't expect much from watching the Irish league. It's below the pecking order of the Scottish PL and inferior to MLS. I'm guessing the quality is going to be pretty low.

 

[Plorfu]

A word of caution: I wouldn't expect much from watching the Irish league. It's below the pecking order of the Scottish PL and inferior to MLS. I'm guessing the quality is going to be pretty low.

Thanks guys. And no worries, here. I wouldn't know good vs. bad play from a hole in the ground.

 

[T Bell]

A word of caution: I wouldn't expect much from watching the Irish league. It's below the pecking order of the Scottish PL and inferior to MLS. I'm guessing the quality is going to be pretty low.

Thanks guys. And no worries, here. I wouldn't know good vs. bad play from a hole in the ground.

Think womens' basketball, only with less scoring.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I think the players drink during games there.

 

[The Gator]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is a good point. Sturridge was woefully under-utilized for years, and the same thing is happening to Lukaku.

Do any other teams do this to the same extent? Chelsea has an entire squad of foreign youth talent on perma-loan. Its a talented group, but given how many of their players are bought outright most of them will be left out in the cold as well. Their actual youth squad is completely irrelevant.This seems like a rather unique development system. I can't think of anyone else that does this to the same extent.

Its pretty infuriating if you ask me. Dont know why the buy all these kids and never give them a chance at first team football. Rather than buying Cavani or Rooney, why not finally give Lukaku a chance? Same with De Bruyne. A few years ago, Gael Kakuta was the best youth prospect at Chelsea, but we loaned him out every year while we bought 8-10 attacking mid's - everyone from superstars such as Hazard and Mata to head scratchers such as Marko Marin and Benayoun. He was never even given a fair chance.

I prefer buyng young talent instead of expensive established stars. But only if the team gives them a chance to prove themselves, which for whatever reason the team rarely does.

It sounds like Lukaku is being given a chance this year. Sturridge started quite a bit under AVB. One reason why this happens is because Chelsea changes managers often, and manager's don't want to pay the price for someone else's guy (Mourinho strikes me as actually better about this than most).

But the fact of the matter is that Chelsea isn't going to be a team that allows it's manager to develop young players. No team that is seriously expected to seriously challenge for trophies is. The stakes are too high. The closest team toward the top of the Prem is Arsenal, and we all agree that Arsenal isn't a serious title contender. In part because they've often relied on a Denilson or a Djourou who just wasn't good enough.

I'd consider Manchester United a serious title contender.

And don't forget that Arsenal has spent 10 years paying on its own for a brand new stadium. They're going to start being more active in the transfer market now.

Tottenham have signed Paulinho, Arsenal have signed a u20 league 2 French player...

 

[jonessed]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

Chelsea has an additional layer of young, foreign loan players. Someone put together a complete squad of Chelsea loanees that looked like it could compete for mid-table. They had over 20 players out on loan last year.

And? Are any of those players going to see the light of day at Stamford Bridge?

A few maybe. I'm just pointing out the additional hurdle the players in their youth academy have.

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

Chelsea has an additional layer of young, foreign loan players. Someone put together a complete squad of Chelsea loanees that looked like it could compete for mid-table. They had over 20 players out on loan last year.

And? Are any of those players going to see the light of day at Stamford Bridge?

A few maybe. I'm just pointing out the additional hurdle the players in their youth academy have.

Oh, gotcha. I misinterpreted the point you were making.

In fairness to Chelsea, any good youth system will have an excess of players that it will have to sell off and, if it's done right, the club will make money off of it. If that's all you want from it, fine, but then an oil oligarch doesn't much need that profit (though maybe FFP will change that).

 

[Sebowski]

American Outlaw presale for the Mexico game in Columbus went on sale today. Site kept crashing. Tried for 45mins then gave up for 30. Then got in!. I'll be in Columbus Ohio on September 10th to watch us kick Mexico's ### and clinch a spot to Brasil. Anyone else going?

I really wish that wasn't a weeknight.

Not me. It's the only reason I'm able to go. Take a flippin' day off. Your country needs you.

 

[The Gator]

Tasker has big Gears of War plans that week

 

[Slapdash]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is a good point. Sturridge was woefully under-utilized for years, and the same thing is happening to Lukaku.

Do any other teams do this to the same extent? Chelsea has an entire squad of foreign youth talent on perma-loan. Its a talented group, but given how many of their players are bought outright most of them will be left out in the cold as well. Their actual youth squad is completely irrelevant.This seems like a rather unique development system. I can't think of anyone else that does this to the same extent.

Its pretty infuriating if you ask me. Dont know why the buy all these kids and never give them a chance at first team football. Rather than buying Cavani or Rooney, why not finally give Lukaku a chance? Same with De Bruyne. A few years ago, Gael Kakuta was the best youth prospect at Chelsea, but we loaned him out every year while we bought 8-10 attacking mid's - everyone from superstars such as Hazard and Mata to head scratchers such as Marko Marin and Benayoun. He was never even given a fair chance.

I prefer buyng young talent instead of expensive established stars. But only if the team gives them a chance to prove themselves, which for whatever reason the team rarely does.

It sounds like Lukaku is being given a chance this year. Sturridge started quite a bit under AVB. One reason why this happens is because Chelsea changes managers often, and manager's don't want to pay the price for someone else's guy (Mourinho strikes me as actually better about this than most).

But the fact of the matter is that Chelsea isn't going to be a team that allows it's manager to develop young players. No team that is seriously expected to seriously challenge for trophies is. The stakes are too high. The closest team toward the top of the Prem is Arsenal, and we all agree that Arsenal isn't a serious title contender. In part because they've often relied on a Denilson or a Djourou who just wasn't good enough.

I'd consider Manchester United a serious title contender.

And don't forget that Arsenal has spent 10 years paying on its own for a brand new stadium. They're going to start being more active in the transfer market now.

Tottenham have signed Paulinho, Arsenal have signed a u20 league 2 French player...

Feel like we hear this every year.

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is a good point. Sturridge was woefully under-utilized for years, and the same thing is happening to Lukaku.

Do any other teams do this to the same extent? Chelsea has an entire squad of foreign youth talent on perma-loan. Its a talented group, but given how many of their players are bought outright most of them will be left out in the cold as well. Their actual youth squad is completely irrelevant.This seems like a rather unique development system. I can't think of anyone else that does this to the same extent.

Its pretty infuriating if you ask me. Dont know why the buy all these kids and never give them a chance at first team football. Rather than buying Cavani or Rooney, why not finally give Lukaku a chance? Same with De Bruyne. A few years ago, Gael Kakuta was the best youth prospect at Chelsea, but we loaned him out every year while we bought 8-10 attacking mid's - everyone from superstars such as Hazard and Mata to head scratchers such as Marko Marin and Benayoun. He was never even given a fair chance.

I prefer buyng young talent instead of expensive established stars. But only if the team gives them a chance to prove themselves, which for whatever reason the team rarely does.

It sounds like Lukaku is being given a chance this year. Sturridge started quite a bit under AVB. One reason why this happens is because Chelsea changes managers often, and manager's don't want to pay the price for someone else's guy (Mourinho strikes me as actually better about this than most).

But the fact of the matter is that Chelsea isn't going to be a team that allows it's manager to develop young players. No team that is seriously expected to seriously challenge for trophies is. The stakes are too high. The closest team toward the top of the Prem is Arsenal, and we all agree that Arsenal isn't a serious title contender. In part because they've often relied on a Denilson or a Djourou who just wasn't good enough.

I'd consider Manchester United a serious title contender.

And don't forget that Arsenal has spent 10 years paying on its own for a brand new stadium. They're going to start being more active in the transfer market now.

Tottenham have signed Paulinho, Arsenal have signed a u20 league 2 French player...

So far...

 

[Sebowski]

Tasker has big Gears of War plans that week

 

[Native]

My dad's going to Ireland today. He asked me what I wanted and I decided he could buy me a soccer jersey. So, I decided I need to swear allegiance to a team now and maybe try and follow it. I landed on St. Patrick's Athletic. What are some good resources for following Irish soccer? I mean, I could Google it but F that.

You'd probably be fine with the official Airtricity League site. www.airtricityleague.ie

Id ask him for a Celtic jersey. They probably have the biggest following in Ireland, even if theyre a Scottish team. Top team in Scotland and always qualify for the top European tournaments,

 

[Steve Tasker]

Tasker has big Gears of War plans that week

Real talk.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

Chelsea has an additional layer of young, foreign loan players. Someone put together a complete squad of Chelsea loanees that looked like it could compete for mid-table. They had over 20 players out on loan last year.

And? Are any of those players going to see the light of day at Stamford Bridge?

A few maybe. I'm just pointing out the additional hurdle the players in their youth academy have.

Oh, gotcha. I misinterpreted the point you were making. In fairness to Chelsea, any good youth system will have an excess of players that it will have to sell off and, if it's done right, the club will make money off of it. If that's all you want from it, fine, but then an oil oligarch doesn't much need that profit (though maybe FFP will change that).

Refraining from nitpicking here, but how does any of this relate to the quote from Gator that Abramovich has "ruined" the CFC youth system? It still makes no sense to me. Joining a big club academy is always going to be a long shot to make the senior team, but its still a great move for those lucky enough to be offered a spot. For me its a good sign that he's invested so heavily in the academy (which does not count for FFP purposes). His stated goal is to turn Chelsea into a big club. How can you have a big club without a great youth program?

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is the problem, and you see it with City too. The only way to allow young players into the first team is to tolerate their mistakes and shortcomings for a while. Every big club can accommodate one such player in their first team in a given season, and maybe two, and still be competitive, but there will be moments that you regret the decision.

If you don't do it, you're just going to be in a cycle where your youth system operates separately and simply sells develops and then away talent (maybe for a profit, maybe not) and your first team comes from other clubs.

Chelsea has an additional layer of young, foreign loan players. Someone put together a complete squad of Chelsea loanees that looked like it could compete for mid-table. They had over 20 players out on loan last year.

And? Are any of those players going to see the light of day at Stamford Bridge?

A few maybe. I'm just pointing out the additional hurdle the players in their youth academy have.

Oh, gotcha. I misinterpreted the point you were making. In fairness to Chelsea, any good youth system will have an excess of players that it will have to sell off and, if it's done right, the club will make money off of it. If that's all you want from it, fine, but then an oil oligarch doesn't much need that profit (though maybe FFP will change that).

Refraining from nitpicking here, but how does any of this relate to the quote from Gator that Abramovich has "ruined" the CFC youth system? It still makes no sense to me. Joining a big club academy is always going to be a long shot to make the senior team, but its still a great move for those lucky enough to be offered a spot. For me its a good sign that he's invested so heavily in the academy (which does not count for FFP purposes). His stated goal is to turn Chelsea into a big club. How can you have a big club without a great youth program?

I don't know the details behind that quote, so I don't know. Typically, though, the draw of a youth academy is the player development opportunities that the academy itself will provide, and also a shot at that club's first team.

Chelsea certainly doesn't seem to provide much if any of the second category, and honestly I don't know of many players who have come all the way through their youth system starting as schoolboys and amounting to much of anything anywhere, so it calls into question the first category as well. The really good youth academies (Arsenal; Southhampton; ManU; Leeds & Blackburn (at least historically); Liverpool, etc.) get the really young players (<16 years old) and they develop into something.

I'm just not seeing much of that with Chelsea but, as I said, I don't know much about what Abramovich has or hasn't done with the youth system since he bought the team.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

My dad's going to Ireland today. He asked me what I wanted and I decided he could buy me a soccer jersey. So, I decided I need to swear allegiance to a team now and maybe try and follow it. I landed on St. Patrick's Athletic. What are some good resources for following Irish soccer? I mean, I could Google it but F that.

You'd probably be fine with the official Airtricity League site. www.airtricityleague.ie

Id ask him for a Celtic jersey. They probably have the biggest following in Ireland, even if theyre a Scottish team. Top team in Scotland and always qualify for the top European tournaments,

When I was in Ireland it seemed everyone was a ManUnited fan. I was working on a case with an Irish lawyer over the course of a year or so in the early 2000s and one day we started talking football and realized we were both Chelsea fans. The case went smoother afterward. He was a smart guy. Called me up a year or so later when Bates sold to Roman and he was ecstatic. We both ordered Damien Duff jerseys - mine is in a box somewhere in my basement now.

 

[GoFishTN]

Real Madrid give up on signing Gareth Bale for now but will try again next summer

 

[The Gator]

The talk behind the Chelsea youth system was in part to do with the development of English players and how their growth is slowed by teams buying starters. Welbeck was an example, too. In a year where (in the host's opinion) he should have been playing a lot more, United buy Kagawa and RVP. Iirc, Welbeck had 23+ PL starts in 2011/12 down to 12 in 2012/13.

 

[T Bell]

The talk behind the Chelsea youth system was in part to do with the development of English players and how their growth is slowed by teams buying starters. Welbeck was an example, too. In a year where (in the host's opinion) he should have been playing a lot more, United buy Kagawa and RVP. Iirc, Welbeck had 23+ PL starts in 2011/12 down to 12 in 2012/13.

There are certain positions that are very difficult to fill with academy players simply because it's so rare to be able to find someone at 14 or 15 and be able to predict that they'll be an elite player at that position. Striker and goalkeeper are probably the two toughest.

That said, I would think that a good youth system should be able to put out good CB's and midfielders, and every so often get lucky with FB's and wings.

 

[T Bell]

There was actually a lot of talk about this the yesterday on the radio. One of the taking heads was saying he's ruined the youth system. This was the gist- "Sure the kids have won things, but where do they go when they're ready for the first team? Not the Chelsea first team because they buy their starters."

This is a good point. Sturridge was woefully under-utilized for years, and the same thing is happening to Lukaku.

Do any other teams do this to the same extent? Chelsea has an entire squad of foreign youth talent on perma-loan. Its a talented group, but given how many of their players are bought outright most of them will be left out in the cold as well. Their actual youth squad is completely irrelevant.This seems like a rather unique development system. I can't think of anyone else that does this to the same extent.

Its pretty infuriating if you ask me. Dont know why the buy all these kids and never give them a chance at first team football. Rather than buying Cavani or Rooney, why not finally give Lukaku a chance? Same with De Bruyne. A few years ago, Gael Kakuta was the best youth prospect at Chelsea, but we loaned him out every year while we bought 8-10 attacking mid's - everyone from superstars such as Hazard and Mata to head scratchers such as Marko Marin and Benayoun. He was never even given a fair chance.

I prefer buyng young talent instead of expensive established stars. But only if the team gives them a chance to prove themselves, which for whatever reason the team rarely does.

It sounds like Lukaku is being given a chance this year. Sturridge started quite a bit under AVB. One reason why this happens is because Chelsea changes managers often, and manager's don't want to pay the price for someone else's guy (Mourinho strikes me as actually better about this than most).

But the fact of the matter is that Chelsea isn't going to be a team that allows it's manager to develop young players. No team that is seriously expected to seriously challenge for trophies is. The stakes are too high. The closest team toward the top of the Prem is Arsenal, and we all agree that Arsenal isn't a serious title contender. In part because they've often relied on a Denilson or a Djourou who just wasn't good enough.

I'd consider Manchester United a serious title contender.

And don't forget that Arsenal has spent 10 years paying on its own for a brand new stadium. They're going to start being more active in the transfer market now.

Tottenham have signed Paulinho, Arsenal have signed a u20 league 2 French player...

So far...

Looks like it will get wrapped up soon, per Marca via a direct quote from Higuain's agent-father.