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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

I wish Nashville would get an MLS team.
I'd settle for a USL Pro team in Milwaukee. Other than my son's U10 team, I've got to make do with high school and Marquette games for a live fix.
Peter Wilt I think tried to get an MLS team to Milwaukee years ago but eventually moved on to become the president of the newly formed Indy 11 in the NASL.

USL is always adding teams (since it has been losing them to MLS the last few years).

Next year Austin, Colorado, Louisville, St Louis and Tulsa will all be new expansion team in the USL Pro league.

 
I'll be a bit surprised if Liverpool is not drawn into the same group as Barcelona
Why's this?

I do want one other big name, but curious why you think Barca
Many people think the draw is rigged for drama, and Suarez playing LFC would be good.

For an English team in Pot 1, there's not much of interest in 3 and 4, so I would like to see one of the big dogs from Pot 2 be drawn with Chelsea. Probably the biggest issue is to avoid having to travel to the far reaches of Eastern Europe or Scandinavia.

 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
I agree with this. I don't think SAF is to blame for the current issues. Maybe you can criticize him for the state of the youth system, but even that is dubious, since it's really hard to predict how youngsters develop. How many of the hundreds of players at La Masia have turned out to be stars? If it was that "easy" Barca wouldn't have had to spend 75m on bringing in Suarez, or RM wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of millions the last 5 years. I think one of SAFs obvious strengths was on the tactical side, and how to make the most out of what was given him. He also had the benefit of many many years of instilling his way of playing in the team. For anyone to come in afterwards and try to change things, it is going to take time.

ETA: I do not agree on Woodward though. I think he is a major issue for United, along with the current ownership group.
Yeah, the bolded was a huge part of his success imo.

As far as Woodward goes, he was able to get one of the greatest players in the world
:lol:

United paid over the odds despite being the only team bidding, he's on huge wages to help make the move.

Literally the only reason he's at United is because nobody else in the CL wanted to pay for him.
These aren't contradictory statements. United paid over the odds because Madrid would only sell for a massive offer. ADM is a great, great player. I like James a lot, but he'll have his work cut out for him to be 80% of the player that ADM was for Madrid. PSG would have shelled out if FFP would have allowed them to, but it didn't and they couldn't (and their hands were tied by a far more ridiculous signing in Luiz).

 
Oh dear GOD please let this be true

UPDATE: Aston Villa and Hull have made bids of around £9m for Tom Cleverley - @DuckerTheTimes has the story http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/clubs/manchesterunited/article4189666.ece #mufc
That would be HUGE, and the best transfer news this window for United.

ETA: Is that AV and Hull getting 9m to take him off their hands?
That would have to be contingent on Cleverly signing an extension. He's in the final year of his contract and can leave on a free next summer. MUFC is not going to get top dollar for him because of this (and his recent form).

 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
I agree with this. I don't think SAF is to blame for the current issues. Maybe you can criticize him for the state of the youth system, but even that is dubious, since it's really hard to predict how youngsters develop. How many of the hundreds of players at La Masia have turned out to be stars? If it was that "easy" Barca wouldn't have had to spend 75m on bringing in Suarez, or RM wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of millions the last 5 years. I think one of SAFs obvious strengths was on the tactical side, and how to make the most out of what was given him. He also had the benefit of many many years of instilling his way of playing in the team. For anyone to come in afterwards and try to change things, it is going to take time.

ETA: I do not agree on Woodward though. I think he is a major issue for United, along with the current ownership group.
Yeah, the bolded was a huge part of his success imo.

As far as Woodward goes, he was able to get one of the greatest players in the world
:lol:

United paid over the odds despite being the only team bidding, he's on huge wages to help make the move.

Literally the only reason he's at United is because nobody else in the CL wanted to pay for him.
That may be the case, but I don't see how it matters. The money is there to be spent. The only thing that I care about is that United are a much better team with Di Maria.

 
A change of scenery can do some players good. Steady minutes and a system that plays to their strengths has done wonders for Huddlestone and Livermore. I wasn't surprised about Huddlestone, who I always thought was a great passer who unfortunately had the top end speed of slug.

 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
I agree with this. I don't think SAF is to blame for the current issues. Maybe you can criticize him for the state of the youth system, but even that is dubious, since it's really hard to predict how youngsters develop. How many of the hundreds of players at La Masia have turned out to be stars? If it was that "easy" Barca wouldn't have had to spend 75m on bringing in Suarez, or RM wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of millions the last 5 years. I think one of SAFs obvious strengths was on the tactical side, and how to make the most out of what was given him. He also had the benefit of many many years of instilling his way of playing in the team. For anyone to come in afterwards and try to change things, it is going to take time.

ETA: I do not agree on Woodward though. I think he is a major issue for United, along with the current ownership group.
Yeah, the bolded was a huge part of his success imo.

As far as Woodward goes, he was able to get one of the greatest players in the world without the promise of CL football. That's got to count for something. Let's see what he can do in the next few days...
Agree with that, except that he wasn't at a position of need. He's great and all, but when you need an entire new midfield and defense, and you're attempting to play with a back 3, buying a winger and 2 LBs is a trifle inept, IMO.

 
Now Chelsea looking at Mattia Destro to replace Torres. Would love this signing.

Also looking to get He-Man, Skeletor and Snakle Eyes on loan.

 
The MLS Supporter's Shield race got even closer last night with LA beating DC 4-1 at home. DC (43) and SKC are one point apart in the East. Seattle leads the West with 45, but LA is now two points behind them, and FCD and RSL are one point behind LA (both having played one extra game).

 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
I agree with this. I don't think SAF is to blame for the current issues. Maybe you can criticize him for the state of the youth system, but even that is dubious, since it's really hard to predict how youngsters develop. How many of the hundreds of players at La Masia have turned out to be stars? If it was that "easy" Barca wouldn't have had to spend 75m on bringing in Suarez, or RM wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of millions the last 5 years. I think one of SAFs obvious strengths was on the tactical side, and how to make the most out of what was given him. He also had the benefit of many many years of instilling his way of playing in the team. For anyone to come in afterwards and try to change things, it is going to take time.

ETA: I do not agree on Woodward though. I think he is a major issue for United, along with the current ownership group.
Yeah, the bolded was a huge part of his success imo.

As far as Woodward goes, he was able to get one of the greatest players in the world without the promise of CL football. That's got to count for something. Let's see what he can do in the next few days...
Agree with that, except that he wasn't at a position of need. He's great and all, but when you need an entire new midfield and defense, and you're attempting to play with a back 3, buying a winger and 2 LBs is a trifle inept, IMO.
We'll see in May. While there are definite areas of need, the squad is generally in need of an infusion of talent. Sometimes the shark move is to go BPA.

 
Rojo can play CB. Still, I get that CB is the greatest position of need, but I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a mediocre player just to fill a hole. I mean, who's out there to fill the need at CB? Hummels seems unattainable at this point. Who else?

I'd much rather they spend on a true talent even if it's not the most glaring position of need. Not to mention the fact that Di Maria can play a variety of positions. Absolute no-brainer of a signing for me, even at 60 mil.

 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
I agree with this. I don't think SAF is to blame for the current issues. Maybe you can criticize him for the state of the youth system, but even that is dubious, since it's really hard to predict how youngsters develop. How many of the hundreds of players at La Masia have turned out to be stars? If it was that "easy" Barca wouldn't have had to spend 75m on bringing in Suarez, or RM wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of millions the last 5 years. I think one of SAFs obvious strengths was on the tactical side, and how to make the most out of what was given him. He also had the benefit of many many years of instilling his way of playing in the team. For anyone to come in afterwards and try to change things, it is going to take time.

ETA: I do not agree on Woodward though. I think he is a major issue for United, along with the current ownership group.
Yeah, the bolded was a huge part of his success imo.

As far as Woodward goes, he was able to get one of the greatest players in the world without the promise of CL football. That's got to count for something. Let's see what he can do in the next few days...
Agree with that, except that he wasn't at a position of need. He's great and all, but when you need an entire new midfield and defense, and you're attempting to play with a back 3, buying a winger and 2 LBs is a trifle inept, IMO.
We'll see in May. While there are definite areas of need, the squad is generally in need of an infusion of talent. Sometimes the shark move is to go BPA.
I have no doubt that Di Maria will be a standout CM for United. And Rojo is a CB, not a LB. If United sign Daley Blind, I look forward to people saying they signed a third LB even though he's played as a holding mid virtually his entire career before LVG implemented the 3-5-2 when Strootman got hurt.

 
Rojo can play CB. Still, I get that CB is the greatest position of need, but I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a mediocre player just to fill a hole. I mean, who's out there to fill the need at CB? Hummels seems unattainable at this point. Who else?

I'd much rather they spend on a true talent even if it's not the most glaring position of need. Not to mention the fact that Di Maria can play a variety of positions. Absolute no-brainer of a signing for me, even at 60 mil.
Apparently not in England... :oldunsure:

 
No shame in throwing Scholes and Giggs out there for much of that 2007-13 period. At least until 2011 or so. When people say that United didn't find a replacement for Scholes (or that Arsenal never found a replacement for Viera) I always wonder why people think those players grow on trees. I like Rakitic a lot, but I suspect we'll hear more than a few times in the coming years that Barca "never found a replacement for Xavi." I think that says more about Xavi than about Barca.
The other salient point is that if Rakitic is only 80% of the player Xavi is instead of 90-95% (pick your number), that RM is replacing him next year (same with Barca, City, and Chelsea). United have only started to do that. Fellini was suppose to be that CM, didn't work....so move on to Herrera, etc. In today's marketplace, that's what the money allows you to do. Miss one year, spend the next. Rinse, repeat until you find something that works.

Obviously, the fact they didn't follow the lead of the big 4 spenders until now is on the Glazer's and SAF was trying best he could to find workable solutions in the transfer market with the stable guys in the team he trusted, but City was basically spending an extra 100 million pounds a year building their team the last 6-7 years while Chelsea was spending to make the necessary replacements. Over a number of years that catches up to you as not every transfer works out.

 
Median home attendance in MLS, by year:

Code:
Year	Median2013	181312012	181552011	176442010	152282009	154872008	160542007	159602006	147762005	158582004	158442003	155692002	167232001	160212000	132451999	148331998	142331997	143201996	16622
 
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I have no doubt that Di Maria will be a standout CM for United. And Rojo is a CB, not a LB. If United sign Daley Blind, I look forward to people saying they signed a third LB even though he's played as a holding mid virtually his entire career before LVG implemented the 3-5-2 when Strootman got hurt.
I hope they play Di Maria in the CM roll next to Herrera, like REALLY hope that's the plan and those two are the ones protecting the back four. My fear is that they'll ditch the 352 and play Di Maria as a true winger.

 
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This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
It's a boring cliche, but the answer has to be in the middle. Yes, he won the league. In part because of performances from Vidic, and Ferdinand in the back (with Evans as a capable third choice CB which appears to be his big club ceiling). SAF bought a next wave of CBs. He picked Jones and Smalling and he has to share some blame for the fact that neither appear to be good enough to start at CB for any other team in the top 4.

On the other side of the coin, Carrick played great for SAF (of course, Carrick is always going to be an injury risk). Cleverly seemed adequate under Ferguson as well. So even though everyone said that United had a giant hole in CM under Ferguson, maybe we can see why he felt he had cover there.
I won't wax too poetic about SAF (although I feel I would be justified) but the man just knew how to win. Remember the one below where he started O'Shea, Gibson and the da Silva twins in the midfield against Arsenal and won comfortably?

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/03/12/man-utd-2-0-arsenal-tactics/

I think it's possible he's under appreciated despite how much he won and all the accolades given.

I'll stop now before Gator and Smoovy vomit.

 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
It's a boring cliche, but the answer has to be in the middle. Yes, he won the league. In part because of performances from Vidic, and Ferdinand in the back (with Evans as a capable third choice CB which appears to be his big club ceiling). SAF bought a next wave of CBs. He picked Jones and Smalling and he has to share some blame for the fact that neither appear to be good enough to start at CB for any other team in the top 4.

On the other side of the coin, Carrick played great for SAF (of course, Carrick is always going to be an injury risk). Cleverly seemed adequate under Ferguson as well. So even though everyone said that United had a giant hole in CM under Ferguson, maybe we can see why he felt he had cover there.
I won't wax too poetic about SAF (although I feel I would be justified) but the man just knew how to win. Remember the one below where he started O'Shea, Gibson and the da Silva twins in the midfield against Arsenal and won comfortably?

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/03/12/man-utd-2-0-arsenal-tactics/

I think it's possible he's under appreciated despite how much he won and all the accolades given.

I'll stop now before Gator and Smoovy vomit.
:lol: I already called him arguably the best manager ever, gb. :thumbup:

 
I have no doubt that Di Maria will be a standout CM for United. And Rojo is a CB, not a LB. If United sign Daley Blind, I look forward to people saying they signed a third LB even though he's played as a holding mid virtually his entire career before LVG implemented the 3-5-2 when Strootman got hurt.
I hope they play Di Maria in the CM roll next to Herrera, like REALLY hope that's the plan and those two are the ones protecting the back four. My fear is that they'll ditch the 352 and play Di Maria as a true winger.
Still would be better than Fletcher/Cleverly. ;)

I'm willing to give LvG time - he has way more credentials than Moyes ever dreamed of having - he doesn't forget over night how to manage. They may still finish 7-10 or something but as long as we see improvement I could live with it. Between SAF leaving and Moyes being a buffoon they side has/had zero confidence. The only odd thing to me was how well they seemed to do preseason to then revert back to how they played end of last year.

 
Also,

Code:
League		Country		Season	Teams	Games	Attendance	AverageBundesliga	Germany		11–12	 18	 306	13,811,075	45,179Premier League	England		12–13	 20	 380	13,643,273 	35,903La Liga		Spain		12–13	 20	 380	11,504,567	29,430Liga MX		Mexico		11–12	 18	 334	 8,495,000	25,434Serie A		Italy		11–12	 20	 380	 8,914,420	23,459Eredivisie	Netherlands	11–12	 18	 306	 5,978,689	19,538Ligue 1		France		12–13	 20	 380	 7,299,737	19,261MLS		USA/Canada	2012	 19	 323	 6,074,729	18,807Chinese Super 	China		2012	 16	 240	 4,497,578	18,740Primera 	Argentina	11–12	 20	 380	 6,902,798	18,165Championship	England		12–13	 24	 552	 9,791,690	17,331Bundesliga 2	Germany		12–13	 18	 306	 5,283,396	17,240J. League 1	Japan		2013	 18	 306	 5,271,047	17,226Brasileiro	Brazil		2012	 20	 380	 4,941,520	13,004
 
This is a very cursory opinion, but to me it seems like MU's mess has been a perfect storm of SAF leaving, United needing a fair amount of reinforcements/quality to replace older players, and Woodward's ineptitude. Perhaps most of all. Any one of those things on its own seems like it could be overcome with United's deep coffers.
There's a back and forth going on in the United related parts of the interweb about whether or not SAF is to blame for the current dip. Some saying that SAF didn't leave the team prepared. I think it's silly; the guy won the league his last year. He had "his guys" that played well for him, he can't help it if another coach can't get the same out of them. The team we point and giggle at now beat Arsenal 8-2 under him. How could he not think that the team was set?

Bottom line, I just don't see how it was possible to see any of this coming. Either way, it's clear that the traditional way of doing things is out the window and they need an overhaul. Woodward finally seems to be getting the hang of things, so hopefully they're well on their way. :2cents:
I agree with this. I don't think SAF is to blame for the current issues. Maybe you can criticize him for the state of the youth system, but even that is dubious, since it's really hard to predict how youngsters develop. How many of the hundreds of players at La Masia have turned out to be stars? If it was that "easy" Barca wouldn't have had to spend 75m on bringing in Suarez, or RM wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of millions the last 5 years. I think one of SAFs obvious strengths was on the tactical side, and how to make the most out of what was given him. He also had the benefit of many many years of instilling his way of playing in the team. For anyone to come in afterwards and try to change things, it is going to take time.

ETA: I do not agree on Woodward though. I think he is a major issue for United, along with the current ownership group.
Yeah, the bolded was a huge part of his success imo.

As far as Woodward goes, he was able to get one of the greatest players in the world without the promise of CL football. That's got to count for something. Let's see what he can do in the next few days...
Agree with that, except that he wasn't at a position of need. He's great and all, but when you need an entire new midfield and defense, and you're attempting to play with a back 3, buying a winger and 2 LBs is a trifle inept, IMO.
In terms of need, you are absolutely right - however, as most around here point out - United need players across the entire pitch. They only place they don't is GK (unless DeGea gets tired of the nonsense in front of him). It's impossible to not think that ADM >> Nani, Young, Januajz, etc. The only downside to bringing him in is if LvG doesn't set the team up properly to make use of him, Rooney and RvP.

 
wdcrob said:
Also,

League Country Season Teams Games Attendance AverageBundesliga Germany 11–12 18 306 13,811,075 45,179Premier League England 12–13 20 380 13,643,273 35,903La Liga Spain 12–13 20 380 11,504,567 29,430Liga MX Mexico 11–12 18 334 8,495,000 25,434Serie A Italy 11–12 20 380 8,914,420 23,459Eredivisie Netherlands 11–12 18 306 5,978,689 19,538Ligue 1 France 12–13 20 380 7,299,737 19,261MLS USA/Canada 2012 19 323 6,074,729 18,807Chinese Super China 2012 16 240 4,497,578 18,740Primera Argentina 11–12 20 380 6,902,798 18,165Championship England 12–13 24 552 9,791,690 17,331Bundesliga 2 Germany 12–13 18 306 5,283,396 17,240J. League 1 Japan 2013 18 306 5,271,047 17,226Brasileiro Brazil 2012 20 380 4,941,520 13,004
A really interesting list. Where is Portugal?

 
wdcrob said:
Also,

League Country Season Teams Games Attendance AverageBundesliga Germany 11–12 18 306 13,811,075 45,179Premier League England 12–13 20 380 13,643,273 35,903La Liga Spain 12–13 20 380 11,504,567 29,430Liga MX Mexico 11–12 18 334 8,495,000 25,434Serie A Italy 11–12 20 380 8,914,420 23,459Eredivisie Netherlands 11–12 18 306 5,978,689 19,538Ligue 1 France 12–13 20 380 7,299,737 19,261MLS USA/Canada 2012 19 323 6,074,729 18,807Chinese Super China 2012 16 240 4,497,578 18,740Primera Argentina 11–12 20 380 6,902,798 18,165Championship England 12–13 24 552 9,791,690 17,331Bundesliga 2 Germany 12–13 18 306 5,283,396 17,240J. League 1 Japan 2013 18 306 5,271,047 17,226Brasileiro Brazil 2012 20 380 4,941,520 13,004
A really interesting list. Where is Portugal?
The Western part of the Iberian peninsula :shrug:

 
BTW, I didn't mention it in this thread but I tore my right quad at my son's soccer practice the other night. I've withdrawn my name as a replacement for Cleverly until I'm completely healed. I could probably still do better but I'm a wuss and don't like pain.

 
BTW, I didn't mention it in this thread but I tore my right quad at my son's soccer practice the other night. I've withdrawn my name as a replacement for Cleverly until I'm completely healed. I could probably still do better but I'm a wuss and don't like pain.
I hope you rolled around on the ground a lot before being stretchered off

 
Sammy3469 said:
I don't think it's that outlandish (fwiw bodog has them at 25-1). Unless they draw PSG from Pot 2 they'll be favored to advance with a 50/50 shot of being the favorite to qualify as #1 (based on odds they'd be favored over Athletic, Porto, Benefica). If they do in fact win the group, they'd get a #2 who'd they'd presumably be favored over. It would only be when they'd reach the final 8 that they'd face someone seemingly better than them. Granted that would probably be one of Bayern, RM, Barca, or PSG, but at that point you take your chances.
Jesus Christ man, learn how to spell these teams names. Atlético de Madrid and Benfica are in Pot 1.

 

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