***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (7 Viewers)

[Good Posting Judge]

Sacramento capped off a dream debut season winning the USL Pro Championship 2-0 tonight in front of an awesome crowd.

Fertile ground with no other pro sports teams in town.

A lot of fans poo poo the idea, but when you look at Seattle, Portland and KC, they all have one thing in common besides their ravenous fan bases. They don't have 4 other pro sports teams in the city.

The Revs have been here since 1996 and I bet the mayor barely knows who they are and yet there was Kevin Johnson right on the sidelines tonight cheering in Sacramento.

I went to an engeering college where the girl to guy ratio was about 1 to 7. Girls who would not be looked at twice in a regular college setting were lusted after.

I went to school in the Sacramento area (UCD) when the Kings were very good, and the whole city was completely bonkers for years. It doesn't take much.

Rivercats (AAA baseball) have also done extremely well there for awhile.

 

[TLEF316]

Ridiculous chipped goal by robbie Keane.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Ridiculous chipped goal by robbie Keane.

he has been so good for so long. I never appreciated him enough when he was younger. Here is the goal for those that missed it.

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2014-09-28-la-galaxy-vs-new-york-red-bulls/details/video/26488

 

[Christo]

Ridiculous chipped goal by robbie Keane.

he has been so good for so long. I never appreciated him enough when he was younger. Here is the goal for those that missed it.

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2014-09-28-la-galaxy-vs-new-york-red-bulls/details/video/26488

I wish Jozy was close to being that good.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I hope LA and Seattle meet in the Western Conference final. That should be very entertaining. Both teams are a cut above any team from the East at this point.

 

[T Bell]

Sacramento capped off a dream debut season winning the USL Pro Championship 2-0 tonight in front of an awesome crowd.

Fertile ground with no other pro sports teams in town.

A lot of fans poo poo the idea, but when you look at Seattle, Portland and KC, they all have one thing in common besides their ravenous fan bases. They don't have 4 other pro sports teams in the city.

The Revs have been here since 1996 and I bet the mayor barely knows who they are and yet there was Kevin Johnson right on the sidelines tonight cheering in Sacramento.

I went to an engeering college where the girl to guy ratio was about 1 to 7. Girls who would not be looked at twice in a regular college setting were lusted after.

Who's Kevin Johnson?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Oh hey, Zlatan vs. Messi on Tuesday.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Sacramento capped off a dream debut season winning the USL Pro Championship 2-0 tonight in front of an awesome crowd.

Fertile ground with no other pro sports teams in town.

A lot of fans poo poo the idea, but when you look at Seattle, Portland and KC, they all have one thing in common besides their ravenous fan bases. They don't have 4 other pro sports teams in the city.

The Revs have been here since 1996 and I bet the mayor barely knows who they are and yet there was Kevin Johnson right on the sidelines tonight cheering in Sacramento.

I went to an engeering college where the girl to guy ratio was about 1 to 7. Girls who would not be looked at twice in a regular college setting were lusted after.

Who's Kevin Johnson?

Ex-NBA player / current Sacramento mayor.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Sacramento capped off a dream debut season winning the USL Pro Championship 2-0 tonight in front of an awesome crowd.

Fertile ground with no other pro sports teams in town.

A lot of fans poo poo the idea, but when you look at Seattle, Portland and KC, they all have one thing in common besides their ravenous fan bases. They don't have 4 other pro sports teams in the city.

The Revs have been here since 1996 and I bet the mayor barely knows who they are and yet there was Kevin Johnson right on the sidelines tonight cheering in Sacramento.

I went to an engeering college where the girl to guy ratio was about 1 to 7. Girls who would not be looked at twice in a regular college setting were lusted after.

Who's Kevin Johnson?

Ex-NBA player / current Sacramento mayor.

He was also the key player in keeping the Kings from moving to Seattle and is the driving force behind pushing Sacramento Republic into MLS.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Landon had a goal and 3 assists tonight.

That makes him tied for the all time MLS assist record with Steve Ralston (Ralston played 48 more games than Landon did).

Donovan has 4 games left to pick up 1 more assist to let him retire with the most goals and assists in both MLS and US Soccer history.

 

[Sebowski]

Landon had a goal and 3 assists tonight.

That makes him tied for the all time MLS assist record with Steve Ralston (Ralston played 48 more games than Landon did).

Donovan has 4 games left to pick up 1 more assist to let him retire with the most goals and assists in both MLS and US Soccer history.

Awesome. He deserves it. Hope he gets it. My local soccer bar is renting a bus up for his last Galaxy home game on the 19th against the Sounders, so I'll be there for that. I hope he has this last record all sealed up by then. I feel honored to have seen him play live so many times. USA GOAT.

 

[Sebowski]

A related question for you guys.

Would you rather:

• Play the style of game that suits your ideal, i.e. beautiful football, but only come close to the top level of teams

OR

• Play the game to win, using whatever means (within the rules) to turn the game to your favor. If that means parking the bus or picking up 7 yellows in critical matches, then so be it.

My brother is an Arsenal fan. I'm at Atlético fan. You can see where we might have a disagreement on this topic.

This answers the question better than I can.

Three more goals today for Chelsea. 60+% possession and almost twice as many passes as their opponent. Yes it was Villa at home and not Barca in the Nou Camp. But the "Park the Bus" attitude bemoaned by everyone (no one more than me) seems to be a thing of the past. They have seven more goals than the next team (City and Everton) and are playing attractive, positive football. Cant tell you how happy I am.

Love love love the attack. Fabregas and Matic make for a dream central midfield with the right amount of mettle and creativity. Three of 1) Hazard, 2) Oscar, 3) Willian 4) Schurrle attack relentlessly. And Costa remains the biggest revelation in Europe simply by being in the right place and not being wasteful with his opportunities. Jose will always be conservative at heart, and we will continue to see Ramires on for Oscar/Willian/Schurrle when playing bigger teams, but even in those instances the club has more than enough attacking power to keep opponents on their toes.

I'll try to translate it though.

Win the right way when you think it's possible.

And that begs the question: If you don't think it is possible to win without playing cyclical, then aren't you admitting you're not the better team? Which leads to the question: just ####### admit it when you steal a victory. Ok, that wash't a question…. It's late and I'm drunk. But how about this too though…:

Let me flip your script, Z

Let's say your tam is going to lose. Would you rather see them go out on there sword giving the other team a hell of a fight the whole way through, or just sit back and hope that one of their two counters steals a goal before the wall is broken?

TIA

I'll Answer Yours

Win >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LoseThe goal is to win games. Sure it would be great if you did it with style and flair. But nobody gets style points. You do waht it takes to meet your objective. If that means park the bus, then park the bus.

No ####### ####. That doesn't address any of my rambling though. It is pretty obvious that winning is the ultimate goal always. I thought we were all capable of talking a little more philosophically here.

Just pretend I only posted the 2nd half of the post if it helps you (you too Christo). I'll repeat it here to help.

Let's say your team is going to lose. Would you rather see them go out on there sword giving the other team a hell of a fight the whole way through, or just sit back and hope that one of their two counters steals a goal before the wall is broken?

 

[The Z Machine]

No time to write more, but you've preserved a false dilemma. No one KNOWS that a team is going to lose before hand.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I suspect with Z, it is less about parking the bus mentality, and more in the way Atletico goes about their business - with a certain tenacity and toughness that some finesse teams may find objectionable. Not necessarily Joga Bonito - but still, as evidenced by last season, highly effective.

For me, I am fine with parking the bus, or playing aggressively. If teams do not have the same talent levels, it is crazy to expect them to go toe-to-toe with the big teams. You look for your own strengths and do what you have to do to win the game.

 

[T Bell]

As a team plays on a given day, I want them to win. My desire to watch "attractive football", however, is a longer term desire and is still important.

 

[charvik]

APLT after 6 weeks:

Chelsea 2
Manchester City -3
Liverpool -5
Arsenal -6
Tottenham Hotspur -6
Manchester United -10
Everton -10

Liverpool and Arsenal dropped points this week, 2pts each... Pace for 70pts is at -3

Table graphics

 

[Sammy3469]

Oh hey, Zlatan vs. Messi on Tuesday.

FU...you jinxed it

http://www.espnfc.us/uefa-champions-league/story/2060670/zlatan-ibrahimovic-ruled-out-of-psg-barcelona-tie-with-heel-injury

 

[charvik]

Next 3 games for APLT:

Liverpool: West Brom Home, QPR Away, Hull Home - Par = 9 points.
Man U: Everton Home, West Brom Away, Chelsea Home - Par = 9 points.
Arsenal: Chelsea Away, Hull Home, Sunderland Away - Par = 7 points.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Next 3 games for APLT:

Liverpool: West Brom Home, QPR Away, Hull Home - Par = 9 points.

Man U: Everton Home, West Brom Away, Chelsea Home - Par = 9 points.

Arsenal: Chelsea Away, Hull Home, Sunderland Away - Par = 7 points.

Chelsea get a bit of a break here with Rooney suspension and key injuries for Arsenal.

 

[T Bell]

Arsenal is so screwed right now. They're short on both talent and depth with these injuries, which means that their second choice players are not only second choice, they're going to be worn out fast too.

 

[GoFishTN]

Next 3 games for APLT:

Liverpool: West Brom Home, QPR Away, Hull Home - Par = 9 points.

Man U: Everton Home, West Brom Away, Chelsea Home - Par = 9 points.

Arsenal: Chelsea Away, Hull Home, Sunderland Away - Par = 7 points.

Is there a site that tracks this?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

As a team plays on a given day, I want them to win. My desire to watch "attractive football", however, is a longer term desire and is still important.

"Attractive Football" is in the eye of the beholder. Usually when a team is passing the ball around at will, walking it in, etc., its because the opposition can't defend. That's like watching the Harlem Globetrotters. Atletico was fun to watch last season because they defended very well and attacked very well, and played with a bit of nastiness. That kind of balance is what makes for intense, attractive games for me.

 

[T Bell]

As a team plays on a given day, I want them to win. My desire to watch "attractive football", however, is a longer term desire and is still important.

"Attractive Football" is in the eye of the beholder. Usually when a team is passing the ball around at will, walking it in, etc., its because the opposition can't defend. That's like watching the Harlem Globetrotters. Atletico was fun to watch last season because they defended very well and attacked very well, and played with a bit of nastiness. That kind of balance is what makes for intense, attractive games for me.

No, it's not "in the eye of the beholder". It's combination play and having guys who can make incisive passes to guys making runs. Chelsea have that this year; they didn't have that last year. You'll note that no one around here ever lauds Sam Allardyce's brand of footy, but you can't deny that he's been effective as a manager.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

As a team plays on a given day, I want them to win. My desire to watch "attractive football", however, is a longer term desire and is still important.

"Attractive Football" is in the eye of the beholder. Usually when a team is passing the ball around at will, walking it in, etc., its because the opposition can't defend. That's like watching the Harlem Globetrotters. Atletico was fun to watch last season because they defended very well and attacked very well, and played with a bit of nastiness. That kind of balance is what makes for intense, attractive games for me.

No, it's not "in the eye of the beholder". It's combination play and having guys who can make incisive passes to guys making runs. Chelsea have that this year; they didn't have that last year. You'll note that no one around here ever lauds Sam Allardyce's brand of footy, but you can't deny that he's been effective as a manager.

Its in the eye of the beholder in the sense that there's no one way to play "attractive" - or to play the "right way", a phrase used earlier in the discussion. What is the "right way" to play? Many people hated watching Greece at the 2004 Euro, but in retrospect it is undeniable that was an awesome, incredible team achievement and an example of tactical superiority that produced a great champion.

 

[guru_007]

I think 'attractive football' is also in the eye of the beholder, and frankly overrated.

I want teams I support to win. Don't care how attractive it is. I'm sure all the Barca fanboys will tell you how attractive their brand of soccer is, but to me, the ticka tack is the most boring, #### soccer around. Sure, there are moments of brilliance, but most all teams can say this too.

I like countering/fast break, end to end soccer. But, that doesn't necessarily determine success either. Roma is a team a few years back that played some awesome soccer, yet, they were a 3rd-4th best team. Blackpool a few years back in the championship was great, Peterborough two years back, wonderful stuff. PSV a few years back was fantastic, Ajax last year and spilling into this year just great.

Juventus games are ordinarily low scoring, but #### do they dominate. Even without the likes of Pirlo and Vidal (who has since come back), they lack super star appear - sure Tevez is there, but he's past his prime, and Pogba is a budding star, but every guy on their team in their lineup knows exactly wtf to do. I'd give a left nut to have a Lichsteiner at United. Chiellini still getting it done. To me Juventus plays some attractive soccer, but I can see how others may feel they do not, as they do tend to pass it back quite a bit. (And have yet to allow a goal in league play).

Real Madrid play some attractive soccer - and right now United is playing some attractive soccer, but United is ####### awful in comparison to the better clubs. United could look like the worlds best for 30 minute stretches, and then, they puke all over themselves because they realize their back line has PAddy ####### McNair or Blackett out there, that their oldest defender is 24ish and looks/acts 18 ish.

Oh, yeah this was a big old rambling post, but I think we can all agree #### chelsea.

 

[JMon348]

Looks like Aaron Ramsey is going to be out for about 6 weeks.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I want my teams to be capable of winning any type of game. Which means that I want them to be good in games where they are expected to have most of the ball, and I want them to be good in games where they're not expected to have most of the ball. To me, being able to play "attractive football" just means that the team can break down a defense in games where my preferred team is going to dominate possession. I don't like it because its more attractive. I like it because that's the best way to get three points in those games.

The number of teams that can just waltz out a lineup and expect to control possession against every team in the world is short. Barca. Bayern. Maybe Madrid will control possession against all but those two other teams. Maybe City is the same way. But even City plays Clichy and Milner in tight games. The way that Mourinho plays Ramires and Willian in those games and leaves Schurrle for the bench. Arsenal don't have the players to do that, so Wenger goes out an plays the same way against City that he plays against West Brom. That doesn't strike me as a recipe for success.

It is true that Cesc has helped Chelsea play better in those games where they're facing a defending team and are given space in the midfield (and that Costa's opportunism has helped as well). But that's only better, IMO, because that means that Chelsea is going to turn a number of draws into wins because of that.

 

[B-Deep]

Oh hey, Zlatan vs. Messi on Tuesday.

what time and where?

Zlatan is awesome, i am ripping #### up with him on fifa

 

[B-Deep]

Oh hey, Zlatan vs. Messi on Tuesday.

FU...you jinxed it

http://www.espnfc.us/uefa-champions-league/story/2060670/zlatan-ibrahimovic-ruled-out-of-psg-barcelona-tie-with-heel-injury

dammit!!!

doesn't his heel know who he is?????????

 

[B Maverick]

Next 3 games for APLT:

Liverpool: West Brom Home, QPR Away, Hull Home - Par = 9 points.

Man U: Everton Home, West Brom Away, Chelsea Home - Par = 9 points.

Arsenal: Chelsea Away, Hull Home, Sunderland Away - Par = 7 points.

Chelsea get a bit of a break here with Rooney suspension and key injuries for Arsenal.

Although some could think Mata in the 10 spot may be better for United then Rooney there. Plus revenge game for mata....

but lets worry about Everton for now.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Newcastle looks like Seattle.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pardew, apparently not getting the memo, sporting a striped tie in traditional Newcastle colors. Poor synergy.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Bye bye Chivas.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2061689/chivas-usa-to-suspend-operations-after-mls-seasonsources-say

 

[CBusAlex]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

 

[Jaysus]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

 

[Jaysus]

Bye bye Chivas.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2061689/chivas-usa-to-suspend-operations-after-mls-seasonsources-say

They should just promote Sacramento from the USL and relegate Chivas to there.

 

[T Bell]

Newcastle looks like Seattle.

Not sunny enough.

 

[T Bell]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Holy #### what a rocket.

GNev - Mignolet should have saved it.

tldr - Howard bounces, Mignolet crouches, and they're both crap

 

[NewlyRetired]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Bye bye Chivas.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2061689/chivas-usa-to-suspend-operations-after-mls-seasonsources-say

This is the best decision for the league.

Hopefully they really do have the team sold and then they can take the two years+ to let the stink go away and rebrand.

It will be amazing if they did sell it in the $100m range.

$1.00 for Chivas USA and $99,999,999 for the rights to a team in LA.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Bye bye Chivas.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2061689/chivas-usa-to-suspend-operations-after-mls-seasonsources-say

They should just promote Sacramento from the USL and relegate Chivas to there.

They can't really. There is no Chivas USA owner right now. The rest of the MLS owners bought out the idiot who owned Chivas USA earlier this year. MLS has a relationship with USL Pro but they can't really just dump the team there as they have no ownership in that league.

Sacramento will be in MLS the nano second the stadium deal is completed IMO.

 

[Premier]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

Couldn't they just have an equal distribution lottery for him? Seems the most fair.

As a follower on the very periphery of club soccer, this Chivas story is fascinating.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

Couldn't they just have an equal distribution lottery for him? Seems the most fair.

As a follower on the very periphery of club soccer, this Chivas story is fascinating.

I know quite a bit about it in case you have any questions.

 

[NewlyRetired]

There is a tie between Sacramento and Chivas USA. The only time Chivas was a viable team was when Preki was their coach. He is the current coach of Sacramento.

 

[T Bell]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

If he's that good (and I'm not doubting you, I've heard of him) then why's he playing in the US instead of Mexico?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

If he's that good (and I'm not doubting you, I've heard of him) then why's he playing in the US instead of Mexico?

Chivas(Mexico) was loaded up front and loaning him to Chivas USA made sense. He was moved to a team with the same owner and was not providing direct competition in Liga MX to Chivas (Mexico).

Loaning talented young players is a common practice.

 

[T Bell]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

If he's that good (and I'm not doubting you, I've heard of him) then why's he playing in the US instead of Mexico?

Chivas(Mexico) was loaded up front and loaning him to Chivas USA made sense. He was moved to a team with the same owner and was not providing direct competition in Liga MX to Chivas (Mexico).

Loaning talented young players is a common practice.

I understand how the loan system works. It sounds like he might just head back to the parent club in Mexico then, no? I would think a loan deal would not necessariliy be transferable.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Can't wait for the draft to distribute Chivas' players to the rest of the league. Especially can't wait for the coin flip to determine who gets first pick in the draft of draft positions for the Chivas allocation draft.

"Aw, ####, do I have to pick one?"

The best young player in the entire league is on Chivas.

Erik Torres has already been capped by Mexico and is just 21. He has been a part of every Mexican team since the U17's.

He has already scored more goals in MLS than any other Mexican born player since the league started in 1996.

It is going to be a blood bath if they try and distribute him because every team is going to want him.

He is so much better than every other player on Chivas, it would not shock me if yet another rule was dreamed up to handle his case. Of course if he goes back to Chivas proper in Mexico then that issue is avoided.

If he's that good (and I'm not doubting you, I've heard of him) then why's he playing in the US instead of Mexico?

Chivas(Mexico) was loaded up front and loaning him to Chivas USA made sense. He was moved to a team with the same owner and was not providing direct competition in Liga MX to Chivas (Mexico).Loaning talented young players is a common practice.

I understand how the loan system works. It sounds like he might just head back to the parent club in Mexico then, no? I would think a loan deal would not necessariliy be transferable.

I agree, see the bold text above.

I have no idea what the loan terms were as he has been in MLS for a couple of seasons now. He is treated as a designated player.

This might be one of those loan deals where they have the option to buy. I have no idea since this type of information is hard to come by.

 

[Sebowski]

If he is there on loan there is no way he doesn't go back to Chivas to at least get them a transfer fee, or get loan terms they want to who they want.