***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (5 Viewers)

[Christo]

Oh I think that the US (and Bradley) know the stakes here. Egypt is no pushover and amazingly appears to have the talent to run with the best of the group.The thing is that Egypt or Italy (or maybe even the US) has to face Spain in the semis. That's not a fun draw.

Can you imagine how many Spain would score on us?

 

[Desert_Power]

Oh I think that the US (and Bradley) know the stakes here. Egypt is no pushover and amazingly appears to have the talent to run with the best of the group.The thing is that Egypt or Italy (or maybe even the US) has to face Spain in the semis. That's not a fun draw.

Can you imagine how many Spain would score on us?

I would guess about 1.

 

[Christo]

Oh I think that the US (and Bradley) know the stakes here. Egypt is no pushover and amazingly appears to have the talent to run with the best of the group.The thing is that Egypt or Italy (or maybe even the US) has to face Spain in the semis. That's not a fun draw.

Can you imagine how many Spain would score on us?

I would guess about 1.

I'll take the over.

 

[The Z Machine]

Spain isn't the worst matchup for the US. Brazil seems to be a much worse matchup.

Spain's game is predicated on one-touch short passing around the opponents box. The US does OK at defending this type of play. Right now the US is weakest at counters and deep crosses (because our fullbacks aren't very good and we give the ball away a ton).

BTW, did any of you see how the Brazilian defender laughed at Altidore when he lost the ball after a simple missed trap? I didn't catch it but I heard some people mention it.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Question for the soccer fans - why is the US team not very good? Is it style? Speed? I'd genuinely like to hear informed opinions. I ask this not as a soccer hater, but as someone who has come to the game recently and appreciate the flow/movement of the game. I'm a huge hockey fan and I see a lot of similarities. TIA.

I think we have ridiculous expectations. Look at the last few pages. We're gnashing out teeth over the fact that our team hasn't steadily progressed in World Cup play in 15 years. But what team really has? Nobody asks why Sweden hasn't steadily progressed and they've had some of the most talented players in Europe over the years (Henrik Larsson, Freddie Ljungberg, Ibrahimovich). England hasn't gotten past the quarterfinals in that time. The Netherlands might have made one semi. I was watching Finland play Russia in World Cup qualifying. This was the last gasp of Finland's "golden generation". Players like Forsell and Hyppia who have played for big European clubs. They never made a World Cup.We can count the teams that we expect to be bona fide contenders in any World Cup on one hand. Italy, Germany, Brazil, Argentina. Maybe Spain or France. But look at Spain. They handn't won a major competition in 45 years before last summer. France wins major competitions when they have a player the caliber of Michel Platini or Zinedine Zidane. When they don't they struggle to get out of the group stages. All of which is to say that in order to make a real, noticeable difference the US is going to need to do more than produce good players. We need to produce good players and one or two GREAT players. That will happen when it happens.

I don't think we have ridiculous expectations. This team just isn't very talented and has regressed from a few years ago. It's not just about steady progression or being a WC contender but simply about developing an identity and the ability to compete and improve against stronger competition. And this USMNT has failed to do that. All the other Euro countries you mentioned would dominate this team if they were in CONCACAF or we were in their group. Even Finland would be making World Cups regularly if they were in CONCACAF but they are stuck in tough qualifying groups in Europe. You could hire the best coaches in the world and this team would still get smoked by most of the top 20 teams. The talent is just not there. Or it's out there somewhere and we are just not finding and developing it.

 

[Sebowski]

In all of this Rossi arguing has anyone pointed out the fact that Bradley would never even call him up anyway?

How good would Adu be playing for Ghana right now? I bet better than he is on the bench for us.

This isn't such a good posting. National team play isn't about developing players- that's up to the club they play for.Adu is sitting on the bench for Benefica Monaco. If he were good enough to be starting for either of those teams, he'd be out there for the US right now.

That is a bit of a vicious cycle. All I know is that Adu is the only player I see out there that constantly makes imaginative passes to the front. His vision alone is enough to warrant the playing time he needs to get better in other areas. At the very least he deserves the late subs in lopsided games. I guess that would take time away from Casey Connor though. Can't have that.

ETA: not to mention he a history of playing well with Altidore.

 

[El Floppo]

In all of this Rossi arguing has anyone pointed out the fact that Bradley would never even call him up anyway?

How good would Adu be playing for Ghana right now? I bet better than he is on the bench for us.

This isn't such a good posting. National team play isn't about developing players- that's up to the club they play for.Adu is sitting on the bench for Benefica Monaco. If he were good enough to be starting for either of those teams, he'd be out there for the US right now.

That is a bit of a vicious cycle. All I know is that Adu is the only player I see out there that constantly makes imaginative passes to the front. His vision alone is enough to warrant the playing time he needs to get better in other areas. At the very least he deserves the late subs in lopsided games. I guess that would take time away from Casey Connor though. Can't have that.

ETA: not to mention he a history of playing well with Altidore.

I'm with you on liking Adu. I'd also like to see him out there getting minutes with the team... but despite the upside (vision, touch, willingness and ability to take players on) we all recognize in him during his great run as a Youth National, there's obviously something going on in his game that is keeping him on the bench wherever he goes as a pro (IIRC, he sat with DC too, no? or was that only as a tyke). I've never seen him play live where I can watch what he's doing off the ball, so I can't speak about that aspect of his game. like you, I've really liked what I've seen him do when he's ON-camera (and on the ball). Gotta figure his weakness is happening OFF-camera and off the ball.

Not really sure what you mean by the "vicious cycle".

 

[Sebowski]

In all of this Rossi arguing has anyone pointed out the fact that Bradley would never even call him up anyway?

How good would Adu be playing for Ghana right now? I bet better than he is on the bench for us.

This isn't such a good posting. National team play isn't about developing players- that's up to the club they play for.Adu is sitting on the bench for Benefica Monaco. If he were good enough to be starting for either of those teams, he'd be out there for the US right now.

That is a bit of a vicious cycle. All I know is that Adu is the only player I see out there that constantly makes imaginative passes to the front. His vision alone is enough to warrant the playing time he needs to get better in other areas. At the very least he deserves the late subs in lopsided games. I guess that would take time away from Casey Connor though. Can't have that.

ETA: not to mention he a history of playing well with Altidore.

I'm with you on liking Adu. I'd also like to see him out there getting minutes with the team... but despite the upside (vision, touch, willingness and ability to take players on) we all recognize in him during his great run as a Youth National, there's obviously something going on in his game that is keeping him on the bench wherever he goes as a pro (IIRC, he sat with DC too, no? or was that only as a tyke). I've never seen him play live where I can watch what he's doing off the ball, so I can't speak about that aspect of his game. like you, I've really liked what I've seen him do when he's ON-camera (and on the ball). Gotta figure his weakness is happening OFF-camera and off the ball.

Not really sure what you mean by the "vicious cycle".

If he had a good National run I'm sure his club team would give him more time and vice versa.

 

[Texas Football]

I think Beasely is a wonderful example of why the "go to Europe and improve" mantra is faulty. He has done nothing but regress since he left MLS.

Some of that might have to do with the situation but a lot due to the fact that he wasn't THAT good to begin with, and the higher level of competition has exposed him.

Page 3 had it right...

 

[eagles2007]

We aren't going to get a point.

Maybe FIFA will award us a courtesy point if we can finish the match with 11 players on the pitch.

now this made me laugh.of course, so did the us' performance against brazil. pathetic. we figure to lose 3-0 to egypt as well. i'm more interested in seeing how italy responds against brazil.i also don't get the love for howard. maybe its because the rest of the team in front of him is so bad, but he doesn't seem to make many 'great' saves. the guy from egypt was MUCH better today. the first goal against brazil, in particular, seemed like one he misplayed. whoever the color guy was was praising the right back throughout the game too, but he's been ripped up pretty good in here.

 

[Moe.]

We aren't going to get a point.

Maybe FIFA will award us a courtesy point if we can finish the match with 11 players on the pitch.

now this made me laugh.of course, so did the us' performance against brazil. pathetic. we figure to lose 3-0 to egypt as well. i'm more interested in seeing how italy responds against brazil.i also don't get the love for howard. maybe its because the rest of the team in front of him is so bad, but he doesn't seem to make many 'great' saves. the guy from egypt was MUCH better today. the first goal against brazil, in particular, seemed like one he misplayed. whoever the color guy was was praising the right back throughout the game too, but he's been ripped up pretty good in here.

Spector? He's been one of the few bright spots.

 

[Ed Wood]

Wow, got to see my first-ever fastbreak soccer goal courtesy of Brazil (only been watching since last November or so). Those guys covered ground fast. Sensational.

 

[El Floppo]

If he had a good National run I'm sure his club team would give him more time and vice versa.

That's what I thought you meant. IMO, a good run of form on the Nat team is enough to get the player a look on a club team, but it's always going to come down to form in training to get game-time PT. Look at Adu as an example- IIRC, good run at his last youth WC got him signed with Benefica but didn't get him any PT there or at loaned Monacn the flip side- good run at club gets a look at Nat level but doesn't always guarantee PT.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Tevez rules out move to Anfield

Carlos Tevez has reportedly ruled out a summer move to Liverpool, according to sources at Sky Sports News.

The Argentina international has spent the last two seasons on loan with Manchester United, but has made his desire to quit the club this summer clear after failing to start games as regularly as he would like.

A trio of Premier League clubs have shown an interest in the bullish forward - with Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea reported to be considering bids of around £25m - but the player has himself ruled out a move to Anfield because of 'emotional ties'.

Apparently, the Argentine international isn't prepared to make a move that would strengthen the side that was the biggest threat to the Old Trafford supremacy last season, despite pleas from international team-mate Javier Mascherano to join him at the club.

Manchester City are now favourites to land his much coveted signature before the start of next season.

Meanwhile, a story in the Sun has claimed that Tevez told Manchester United: "Make me your highest-paid player - or I go."

Tevez has been on £95,000-a-week since joining Sir Alex Ferguson's side, but wants to match the personal terms of £110,000-a-week that stars Rio Ferdinand and Dimitar Berbatov earn if he is going to stay at the club.

United have reportedly matched the £26m needed to seal his permanent move to Old Trafford, but the deal has been scuppered by their refusal to increase his wage packet.

Okay...............so let me get this straight:You don't get enough PT at ManU to warrant loyalty to the club, and staying there. But, you can't go to their main competition because of "emotional ties"? But you can go to the cross town rivals? Uggggh. He kinda makes my head hurt. And besides............what exactly is that growing on his neck?

 

[guru_007]

Tevez was seriously burned as a child, those are burn marks, not growths.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

We aren't going to get a point.

Maybe FIFA will award us a courtesy point if we can finish the match with 11 players on the pitch.

now this made me laugh.of course, so did the us' performance against brazil. pathetic. we figure to lose 3-0 to egypt as well. i'm more interested in seeing how italy responds against brazil.i also don't get the love for howard. maybe its because the rest of the team in front of him is so bad, but he doesn't seem to make many 'great' saves. the guy from egypt was MUCH better today. the first goal against brazil, in particular, seemed like one he misplayed. whoever the color guy was was praising the right back throughout the game too, but he's been ripped up pretty good in here.

Spector? He's been one of the few bright spots.

Howard and Spector may be "bright spots" on this sorry team, but they essentially combined to give up the first goal yesterday. I thought DeMerit played very well over the two games, other than about a 20 minute period in the second half against Italy.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Tevez was seriously burned as a child, those are burn marks, not growths.

<ed mcmahon>I did not know that.</ed mcmahon>

 

[Moe.]

We aren't going to get a point.

Maybe FIFA will award us a courtesy point if we can finish the match with 11 players on the pitch.

now this made me laugh.of course, so did the us' performance against brazil. pathetic. we figure to lose 3-0 to egypt as well. i'm more interested in seeing how italy responds against brazil.

i also don't get the love for howard. maybe its because the rest of the team in front of him is so bad, but he doesn't seem to make many 'great' saves. the guy from egypt was MUCH better today. the first goal against brazil, in particular, seemed like one he misplayed.

whoever the color guy was was praising the right back throughout the game too, but he's been ripped up pretty good in here.

Spector? He's been one of the few bright spots.

Howard and Spector may be "bright spots" on this sorry team, but they essentially combined to give up the first goal yesterday. I thought DeMerit played very well over the two games, other than about a 20 minute period in the second half against Italy.

And? Were you expecting a shutout? Spector lost his footing and fell on the first goal, happened to a lot of players yesterday. Doesn't change the fact that he was one of our best players, even though that isn't saying too much. Couldn't you also blame whoever committed the "foul",(I think it was Bradley) even though it wasn't a foul but a blatant dive? Spector also did a decent job of getting forward and created our best scoring chance of the match. Not saying he played flawlessly, but still.

 

[guru_007]

Latest transfer rumors:

-David Villa's agent claiming that he will not be sold.......(although just yesterday it was about a done deal that he was going to Real, so wth knows)

-Roque Santa Cruz to Man City, thats a very nice signing if true...

-Arsenal sign a defender from Ajax, Thomas Vermaelen - frankly I'm not at all familiar with his play

 

[The Z Machine]

I could have sworn DMB fouled to give that first free kick. He seemed to enjoy coming in late or stupidly in that area of the field in the first half. But I could be wrong.

 

[The Z Machine]

There's a rumor that ManU is going after Iker Casillas.

Yeah MFing right! There's simply no way that San Iker leaves Real Madrid. Not possible. What a stupid rumor.

 

[Desert_Power]

There's a rumor that ManU is going after Iker Casillas. Yeah MFing right! There's simply no way that San Iker leaves Real Madrid. Not possible. What a stupid rumor.

This would be my dream.

 

[The Z Machine]

There's a rumor that ManU is going after Iker Casillas. Yeah MFing right! There's simply no way that San Iker leaves Real Madrid. Not possible. What a stupid rumor.

This would be my dream.

Not gonna happen. Iker is a merengue through and through. Born in Madrid, product of the Real youth system, given the starting role at age 19, and WILL likely break the record for starts for a Real player. He's only 28, and he's probably got 8-10 more years in him. He only needs about 300 more appearances to break it. I don't care how much money ManU or man City throws at him. He won't sell out, just like Raúl won't sell out. He might leverage the offer for a greater salary, but that's it.

 

[Sammy3469]

FWIW. Setanta had their EPL rights terminated today...should see who wins them next week.

 

[Sebowski]

FWIW. Setanta had their EPL rights terminated today...should see who wins them next week.

Is that internationally? Are the US rights different?Wow. I wonder if ESPN and Fox make strong offers. Who else would be in the running? Could Versus make an offer? They already have Hockey and MMA. Adding Soccer would give them my three four favorite sports. I doubt they have the resources though. If this works like the NFL, then this could really hurt the EPL. I imagine they were paying a ton of money. Not sure who else can match what they were paying. I'm not familiar with European TV though.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

FWIW. Setanta had their EPL rights terminated today...should see who wins them next week.

Is that internationally? Are the US rights different?Wow. I wonder if ESPN and Fox make strong offers. Who else would be in the running? Could Versus make an offer? They already have Hockey and MMA. Adding Soccer would give them my three four favorite sports. I doubt they have the resources though. If this works like the NFL, then this could really hurt the EPL. I imagine they were paying a ton of money. Not sure who else can match what they were paying. I'm not familiar with European TV though.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the EPL US rights are split into different packages like the NFL rights. For example, generally there's an early Saturday match (7AM Eastern time), which I think was Setanta's match, then the standard Saturday afternoon matches (10 AM Eastern), one of which is on FSC, and the late Saturday match (12 noon eastern), on FSC. Then there's a Sunday doubleheader, the early match (9AM) was on Setanta I think, and the late match (11AM) was on FSC.So if that's the case, ESPN would be bidding on programming to fill time on Saturday and Sunday morning, bumping SportsCenter reruns and/or hunting and fishing shows on ESPN2.

 

[eagles2007]

We aren't going to get a point.

Maybe FIFA will award us a courtesy point if we can finish the match with 11 players on the pitch.

now this made me laugh.of course, so did the us' performance against brazil. pathetic. we figure to lose 3-0 to egypt as well. i'm more interested in seeing how italy responds against brazil.i also don't get the love for howard. maybe its because the rest of the team in front of him is so bad, but he doesn't seem to make many 'great' saves. the guy from egypt was MUCH better today. the first goal against brazil, in particular, seemed like one he misplayed. whoever the color guy was was praising the right back throughout the game too, but he's been ripped up pretty good in here.

Spector? He's been one of the few bright spots.

thought he was LB. i was talking about bornstein, i think.

 

[scoobygang]

I could have sworn DMB fouled to give that first free kick. He seemed to enjoy coming in late or stupidly in that area of the field in the first half. But I could be wrong.

The foul was called on Bradley for reaching at Maicon's arm. It was a pretty iffy foul. He never really grabbed him.

 

[El Floppo]

I can only find the Spain v SA game on ESPN guide... no Iraq v NZ. Is the latter game being shown live?

I don't want to get all negative-ESPN, because I assume they've got a plan for games played at the same time, but then again... I wouldn't be surpised if they didn't (and needed to show repeats of Bass fishing instead).

 

[Big Rocks]

I can only find the Spain v SA game on ESPN guide... no Iraq v NZ. Is the latter game being shown live? I don't want to get all negative-ESPN, because I assume they've got a plan for games played at the same time, but then again... I wouldn't be surpised if they didn't (and needed to show repeats of Bass fishing instead).

ESPN TV listings is showing it being shown at 1 am tonight on ESPN2, but there's no college baseball that was originally scheduled, so maybe they'll show both of them live.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

omg.

PK save, rebound save, and then Spain scores a phenomal goal...all within about 15 seconds.

 

[bentley]

FWIW. Setanta had their EPL rights terminated today...should see who wins them next week.

Is that internationally? Are the US rights different?Wow. I wonder if ESPN and Fox make strong offers. Who else would be in the running? Could Versus make an offer? They already have Hockey and MMA. Adding Soccer would give them my three four favorite sports. I doubt they have the resources though. If this works like the NFL, then this could really hurt the EPL. I imagine they were paying a ton of money. Not sure who else can match what they were paying. I'm not familiar with European TV though.

Maybe I'm not following, but if it was the EPL doing the terminating, my guess is that they're going to be getting more money rather than less. Here's some more from our good friends at Wikipedia.

On 19 June 2009, Setanta Sports failed to pay the £30m it owes the English Premier League. The Premier League will now sell the rights to the 46 live matches Setanta had for the 2009/10 season. A Premier League spokesman said, "It is with considerable regret that we announce that Setanta has been unable to meet their obligations. As such the existing licence agreement between us has been terminated with immediate effect." [8] The rights are expected to be taken up the BBC who have a budget surplus following the loss of the FA Cup and England matches.

 

[eagles2007]

Following a discussion with a co-worker I have the following question about the MLS:

We are in Philly and he was trying to make the point that the MLS schedule - 30 games, 15 home - over a 6-month period with sometimes only having 1 home game in a month is just too spread out and that fans are going to have trouble developing an allegiance to the team. I tried to explain that there are more games than that, how there is the Hunt Cup, etc. But he makes a goood point - that the MLS schedule is way too long. I mean, if you're team loses early in these Cup competitions, you really are going to go long periods iwthout games in your city.

So, how do you explain this to a sports fan, but not a soccer fan? I mean, he had vaild points.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Following a discussion with a co-worker I have the following question about the MLS:We are in Philly and he was trying to make the point that the MLS schedule - 30 games, 15 home - over a 6-month period with sometimes only having 1 home game in a month is just too spread out and that fans are going to have trouble developing an allegiance to the team. I tried to explain that there are more games than that, how there is the Hunt Cup, etc. But he makes a goood point - that the MLS schedule is way too long. I mean, if you're team loses early in these Cup competitions, you really are going to go long periods iwthout games in your city. So, how do you explain this to a sports fan, but not a soccer fan? I mean, he had vaild points.

That midweek soccer generally doesn't sell as well and you can't play twice in a weekend? In addition to the Hunt, there's also the CONCACAF Champions League and Superliga for some teams, and the occasional scheduled friendlies. IMO, the bigger problem with the MLS schedule is that they don't shut it down during international match dates (World Cup, WCQ's and Gold Cup). For example, the Galaxy shouldn't have to continue to play league matches without Donovan. It's kind of bush league, although it may be logistically impossible, particularly for the World Cup which lasts an entire month.

 

[bentley]

Was that supposed to be a pass to Jozy?

 

[bentley]

Holy ####! We scored a goal in regulation!

 

[Genedoc]

What do we need the combined goal diff to be today? We obviously must win and Brazil must beat Italy, but by how much total?

 

[bentley]

What do we need the combined goal diff to be today? We obviously must win and Brazil must beat Italy, but by how much total?

6 I think.

 

[Big Rocks]

3-0 Brazil

 

[Genedoc]

What do we need the combined goal diff to be today? We obviously must win and Brazil must beat Italy, but by how much total?

6 I think.

Wow...2/3rds of the way there (3-0 Brazil, 1-0 US) at the half of both games. This would be epic to eliminate the Italians and squeek in on goal diff after the eggs laid in those first two games.ETA - And you know the Brazilians are thinking that they've got a chance to eliminate a legitimate tournament contender today in Italy. Beat them badly enough today and you know you don't have to deal with them down the road.

 

[Genedoc]

3-0 Brazil

3 goals in 7 minutes.

 

[Desert_Power]

We may actually be able to pull this out.

 

[bentley]

I may have been off a goal. Just found the below. But hope is still alive (somehow).

The U.S. either needs Italy to score three fewer goals than the U.S. in a loss to Brazil, or for the sum of the U.S. and Brazil's margin of victory to be seven goals or greater.

 

[prefontaine]

Before games

Italy +1 GF: 3 GA: 2

Egypt 0 GF: 4 GA: 4

USA -5 GF: 1 GA: 6

At halftime

Egypt -1 GF: 4 GA: 5

Italy -2 GF: 3 GA: 5

USA -4 GF: 2 GA: 6

I'm pretty sure GD is first tiebreak so we would have to get 2 more just to pull ahead of Egypt no matter how many Brazil puts on Italy.

 

[bentley]

Before gamesItaly +1 GF: 3 GA: 2 Egypt 0 GF: 4 GA: 4USA -5 GF: 1 GA: 6At halftimeEgypt -1 GF: 4 GA: 5Italy -2 GF: 3 GA: 5USA -4 GF: 2 GA: 6I'm pretty sure GD is first tiebreak so we would have to get 2 more just to pull ahead of Egypt no matter how many Brazil puts on Italy.

I think we've established on another board that 3-0 finishes on both sides get it done. So let's hope for that. But I'm way confused about it.

 

[prefontaine]

Before gamesItaly +1 GF: 3 GA: 2 Egypt 0 GF: 4 GA: 4USA -5 GF: 1 GA: 6At halftimeEgypt -1 GF: 4 GA: 5Italy -2 GF: 3 GA: 5USA -4 GF: 2 GA: 6I'm pretty sure GD is first tiebreak so we would have to get 2 more just to pull ahead of Egypt no matter how many Brazil puts on Italy.

I think we've established on another board that 3-0 finishes on both sides get it done. So let's hope for that. But I'm way confused about it.

That sounds right. That would put us at -2 GD (tied with Italy) but 2nd tiebreak should be Goals For and we would have 4 to their 3.

 

[Genedoc]

Pretty sure that missed opportunity right there will be the game breaker that send Egypt into the next round.

 

[LHUCKS]

Is this game on the internet somewhere...I'm only getting Brazil/Italy here in Australia?

Adu should be in.

 

[Big Rocks]

 

[Christo]