***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[El Floppo]

Reminder that the US plays again tomorrow night on ESPN2 against the Guats at PHP

Grassy-####. A que ora?

 

[andy_b]

Reminder that the US plays again tomorrow night on ESPN2 against the Guats at PHP

Grassy-####. A que ora?

I barely speak english Are you asking what time the game is?

It is 9:00pm eastern I believe

http://www.ussoccer.com/schedule/index.jsp.html

 

[El Floppo]

Reminder that the US plays again tomorrow night on ESPN2 against the Guats at PHP

Grassy-####. A que ora?

I barely speak english Are you asking what time the game is?

It is 9:00pm eastern I believe

http://www.ussoccer.com/schedule/index.jsp.html

thanks!Incredible write-up for the US v Ecuador game andy- and a big thanks for the youtube links for the goals. Donovan...wow- if only he had shown some of that in Germany.

 

[El Floppo]

Because Ka-Ka wasn't enough... Brazil trotted out Du-Du vs Ghana.

Big Heaping Piece of Crap will be making his first appearance next month vs Djubuti.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Because Ka-Ka wasn't enough... Brazil trotted out Du-Du vs Ghana.Big Heaping Piece of Crap will be making his first appearance next month vs Djubuti.

You mean Dunga inserted Du-Du into the lineup?

 

[El Floppo]

Because Ka-Ka wasn't enough... Brazil trotted out Du-Du vs Ghana.Big Heaping Piece of Crap will be making his first appearance next month vs Djubuti.

You mean Dunga inserted Du-Du into the lineup?

well played!

 

[Moe.]

usa - guatemala just kicked off

 

[andy_b]

* wow was that a brutal soccer game. As good as the US Ecuador game was to watch as entertainment, thats how bad this one was

* I hate bunker ball.

* Interesting to see that the US has now gotten to the point where a mid level team in CONCACAF will put 10 men behind the ball at all cost to secure a point in a meaningless friendly.

* Personally I don't get the tactics in a friendly. Guat has a Gold Cup game against the US this summer. Showing this tactic so early will give the US time to figure out how to crack it. Had the Guats played a straight up game yesterday in the meaningless friendly, they may have lost by 2 or more goals, but in the end, all that would have done was cause the US to be over confident against the Guats in the Gold Cup and certainly never be ready for the bunker ball. Now Guat has lost both possible advantages for the Gold Cup game

* That being said, MUCH better teams that the US have problems breaking down this tactic, so the US will have a lot of work in front of them.

 

[guru_007]

I watched a little of the Guatemala - US game last night....WTF was going on? Had to be one of the ugliest/worst officiated games I've ever seen. At one point, a US player fell near the ball, and the opponent kicked THREE ####### times at the ball when it was pinned against the US players stomach. And the US player got called for a handball. I had to turn it off, it was really not fun to watch

 

[The Z Machine]

Glad I didn't see that ####.

The US and Mexico need to drop CONCACAF and just join up with the South American teams. Have one big ### federation spanning both continents and get as many bids as Europe does.

 

[El Floppo]

I watched a little of the Guatemala - US game last night....WTF was going on? Had to be one of the ugliest/worst officiated games I've ever seen. At one point, a US player fell near the ball, and the opponent kicked THREE ####### times at the ball when it was pinned against the US players stomach. And the US player got called for a handball. I had to turn it off, it was really not fun to watch

FWIW... not a great called game- but not bad at all. Mexican ref let them play, which was refreshing given guys like Ruiz flopping around (did I just say flopping?) like they were in some kind of perpetual epileptic seizure.And the play you're talking about- it's not a foul for the player to blast the ball into the guy lying on the ground. It's the repsonibility of the guy on the ground to get out of the way. I didn't like it much- as the Guat player was clearly trying to take advantage of the situation. Wynalda called it correctly- somebody should've taken mental note of that guy's number and picked up a yellow later on giving him a good whack. That's how it worked in my day... I guess good for the players out there for keeping their calm.

 

[andy_b]

Glad I didn't see that ####.The US and Mexico need to drop CONCACAF and just join up with the South American teams. Have one big ### federation spanning both continents and get as many bids as Europe does.

even if the FULL CONCACAF and CONMEBOL merged, they would never get as many bids as Europe. Europe gets either 14 or 15 depending on the year. The best a combined CONCACAF/CONMEBOL would get would be anywhere from 8 to 9 bids.

 

[jpeace121]

Thoughts...

- Eddie Johnson was invisible again. It's frustrating that this country can keep producing world class keepers and strong midfielders, but can't find a striker worth a crap.

- And what to blame Dempsey's play on? Riding the pine at Fulham? He hasn't shown much enterprise out there, especially last night in a game where flank play was vital. Didn't see him swinging crosses in. Could it be his lack of quality in this area has helped keep him on the bench?

-It's a very bad sign that this team is dependent on a petulant midfielder to score goals.

- Andy's right - it's an interesting sign that teams bunker against us. In some ways its a form of respect, but in some ways it isn't. Its a recognition that we don't have the skill or patience to break down a bunker and are susceptible to the counter. If we're going to move the US game to the next level, we're going to have to find ways to score when teams put 10 people behind the ball.

- Thought some of the young kids looked great. Demerit looked good, but some clearances were shaky. Simek looked alright, but wasn't really that willing to push up on the right and get involved in moving the flank up with Dempsey. Feilhaber and Bradley continue to look impressive, especially Feilhaber. Kid has great skills, just needs to mature a bit. Thought Mapp had a good game too.

I'd say it was a good match in that it showed us where we need to improve, but we already knew that offense was our weak point going in. From here on out, teams are going to mark Donovan right out of the game. The only thing left to be seen is if we can find some other way to score goals.

 

[The Z Machine]

good write up jpeace.

A lot of what you said showed in Germany too. There was minimal threat up top from the US and that put a lot of pressure on the midfield to make something happen (which they didn't). The difference was that instead of going for a bunker mentality, teams would come right at the US D not giving a crap if it made them weak in on their own side of the ball.

Looking back, that was such a dreadful cup for the US. We were simply outplayed in all but about 60 minutes of the entire thing.

 

[El Floppo]

* wow was that a brutal soccer game. As good as the US Ecuador game was to watch as entertainment, thats how bad this one was* I hate bunker ball.* Interesting to see that the US has now gotten to the point where a mid level team in CONCACAF will put 10 men behind the ball at all cost to secure a point in a meaningless friendly.* Personally I don't get the tactics in a friendly. Guat has a Gold Cup game against the US this summer. Showing this tactic so early will give the US time to figure out how to crack it. Had the Guats played a straight up game yesterday in the meaningless friendly, they may have lost by 2 or more goals, but in the end, all that would have done was cause the US to be over confident against the Guats in the Gold Cup and certainly never be ready for the bunker ball. Now Guat has lost both possible advantages for the Gold Cup game* That being said, MUCH better teams that the US have problems breaking down this tactic, so the US will have a lot of work in front of them.

Great. THIS was the one of those two games I watch. Andy- I agree with you about the bunker-ball. VERY interesting to see that the US has gotten to that level in the region that a team that's on the fringe of qualifying would resort to it. I think some of that has to do with a new coach probably trying to make sure his team shows some decent structure- which is easier to achieve on short notice on defense. He probably also saw the game vs Ecuador (which was more wide open, no?) and saw that the US plays best when moving the ball quickly moving forward. This goes back to what I've been saying- the US players are ineffectual with their backs to the goal; and Guatemala, by backing up into their own defensive 1/3, denied the US their pace or moving at goal. I've always wondered why opposing teams don't seem to take advantage of the US's weaknesses- and finally somebody did. I'm afraid this should be a blueprint for other teams in the region to take advantage of. And to be fair- Guatemala had a number of opportunities to score. A better shot here or there and they could have pulled off the win. I'm not saying the better teams like Mexico or... well, Mexico (maybe Jamaica)- will do this.As for the game...I was really impressed with Mapp, the only guy on the field who went at players. Granted, he made a lot of bad decisions as to when he went at players and also was pretty dreadful with his final touch (cross, pass or shot)- but at least he went for it.Donovan looked great when he got the ball- his confidence was obviously spilling over from the Ecuador game. Unfortunately, Guat's game-plan #2 was to shut him down- and it worked really well. They always had a player behind him AND in front closing off the passing lanes. Donovan barely touched the ball even though he was working his butt off, but when he did he was productive.Feilhaber and Bradley- ok games, especially for being young. But the US needs somebody in the middle who can control the game on and off the ball better than the way they both played last night. It was my first time seeing Feilhaber, and he looked confident on the ball which I liked, but completely mystified as to what to do against the bunker defense. Bradley apparently decided (with or without his dad's advice) that it was best to play the ball long to his forward in the middle of the field. Not a terrible idea, given the clogging of the midfield and the US height advantage- but without McBride, EJ and... I've already forgotten his strike-partner, were unable to distribute or hold the long ball. The balls bounced harmlessly off their head, chest and feet. Dempsey- horrible. What's happened to him? He looked slow and clueless. A complete waste on the field last night. However, see below.Demerit, Spector, Simek, Conrad- thought these guys looked really promising- especially considering they didn't have Gooch or Boca there. Granted, they didn't have much to do- but they did what they needed to do. Spector, in particular, also added some solid offense through his passing. Simek- not so much. I partially blame Simek's lack of distribution on Dempsey's bad game.Wynalda was spot on in his observations on the game, IMO- the US needed to overlap non-stop to spread the defense wide, and then put crosses in to take advantage of their height. They did neither (although Mapp worked down the left side a lot- just couldn't get the crosses in) and payed the price. For my money, the US needs to do more of what Wynalda said AND learn how to turn and take guys on- even in the midfield. Feilhaber and Bradley first instinct was to pass the ball back when receiving it in the middle. There were many opportunities for them to turn without putting their team at risk defensively- but neither one took them. It's kind of like basketball- if you have a point-guard who can break down a team by driving to the hoop, it'll open up the field for the rest of the players.

 

[andy_b]

Great. THIS was the one of those two games I watch.

lol. Its always the way

Andy- I agree with you about the bunker-ball. VERY interesting to see that the US has gotten to that level in the region that a team that's on the fringe of qualifying would resort to it. I think some of that has to do with a new coach probably trying to make sure his team shows some decent structure- which is easier to achieve on short notice on defense.He probably also saw the game vs Ecuador (which was more wide open, no?) and saw that the US plays best when moving the ball quickly moving forward. This goes back to what I've been saying- the US players are ineffectual with their backs to the goal; and Guatemala, by backing up into their own defensive 1/3, denied the US their pace or moving at goal.

This is an excellent point. Gomez was likely trying to save a bit of face from getting whacked in his first real game in charge. If he plays the US straight up yesterday, he likely knows that he would lose by at least a couple of goals.That being said, it seems to be a short term gain for a possible long term loss in that they have now given the US a free preview for the Gold Cup game.

I've always wondered why opposing teams don't seem to take advantage of the US's weaknesses- and finally somebody did. I'm afraid this should be a blueprint for other teams in the region to take advantage of. And to be fair- Guatemala had a number of opportunities to score. A better shot here or there and they could have pulled off the win. I'm not saying the better teams like Mexico or... well, Mexico (maybe Jamaica)- will do this.

Mexico will never do this. Their culture will not allow them to play bunker ball against the US. Its the whole reason the US continues to have such a good record against them. Mexico is forced by media and fans to attack the US at all costs. The US simply absorbs and absorbs but has the ability to counter (which the Guats don't) and can usually catch Mexico for an easy goal or two.

As for the game...I was really impressed with Mapp, the only guy on the field who went at players. Granted, he made a lot of bad decisions as to when he went at players and also was pretty dreadful with his final touch (cross, pass or shot)- but at least he went for it.

Me too. I have to say that Mapp has looked better than DMB offensively, but DMB is still the far superior defensive player and once we play the top level teams with strong wing players, thats very important.

Dempsey- horrible. What's happened to him? He looked slow and clueless. A complete waste on the field last night.

He didn't look much better against Ecuador. I am starting to fear what happened to DMB may happen to Depmsey in that they get worse in international play AFTER leaving MLS for a better league.

Demerit, Spector, Simek, Conrad- thought these guys looked really promising- especially considering they didn't have Gooch or Boca there. Granted, they didn't have much to do- but they did what they needed to do. Spector, in particular, also added some solid offense through his passing. Simek- not so much. I partially blame Simek's lack of distribution on Dempsey's bad game.

Demerit, Spector and Simek showed that we have pretty much zero depth issues in defense for the coming World Cup Qualifying run. This will be helpful for the normal spat of injuries and poor form that will happened to different players from time to time.Great comments all around! Thanks for sharing.

 

[andy_b]

For my money, the US needs to do more of what Wynalda said AND learn how to turn and take guys on- even in the midfield. Feilhaber and Bradley first instinct was to pass the ball back when receiving it in the middle. There were many opportunities for them to turn without putting their team at risk defensively- but neither one took them. It's kind of like basketball- if you have a point-guard who can break down a team by driving to the hoop, it'll open up the field for the rest of the players.

and this is why we should all say a prayer to the soccer gods that Adu can develop his obvious skills. He is tailored made for the role you describe.

 

[B Maverick]

For my money, the US needs to do more of what Wynalda said AND learn how to turn and take guys on- even in the midfield. Feilhaber and Bradley first instinct was to pass the ball back when receiving it in the middle. There were many opportunities for them to turn without putting their team at risk defensively- but neither one took them. It's kind of like basketball- if you have a point-guard who can break down a team by driving to the hoop, it'll open up the field for the rest of the players.

and this is why we should all say a prayer to the soccer gods that Adu can develop his obvious skills. He is tailored made for the role you describe.

Really? Our hopes are that Adu can turn into C Ronaldo? Sorry, wont happen. He is overrated and to small. More Beasley then Ronaldo.Notes on the game......I dont know whats worse about this game, the announcers, the US' play or the ref.1) Why isnt someone getting in the opponants face after three kicks to our players midsection/head? Dont need to get a yellow, just back up your boy. One thing hot head Wayne Rooney does well. Prime example in the Manu v Boro game after the bad whack on Ronaldo, his whole team got his back. US is timid.2) If the team does not have Donovan to pass to they are lost. Mark him out of the game and we are clueless.3) Eddie Johnson is worthless. He is in a track meet just turning and running for goal. He cant serve a ball when he does control it on the wings and he cant score to save his life. Heck we do not have any PURE goal Scorers.4) the 6'2 210 forward that came in late. Wynalda said he isnt good with his back to the goal or in the air. DISGRACE. At that size with his build he should be able to post up, bring a ball down turn and shoot. Sad that he is on the national team and cant do it.5) Donovan is NOT world class. He is good in the open field but easily marked out of the game. Just listen to the comments on Ruiz's ability to get open. Landon can not do that. He may be great in the MLS but put him in the world stage and he is nothing.6) Furthermore on Landon, he now does not want to play CONCACAF or any friendlies once the MLS season starts? He wasnts to play for club over country? Some leader he is. I wouldnt want him on the national team with that attitude. He is SCARED. He couldnt hack it in Europe so he came home. Now BECKHAM is here to share a pitch with him and he is AFRAID of him. Afraid of Becks being the star, showing how much better the big boys are, proving LD is not the leader or the star the USMNT wants him to be.On the plus side, some of the kids like Spector looked solid and have potential. There is hope as long as we develop these guys and are not relying on the old guard. Stop waiting for ADU and develop these better players.Ok Andy B and El Floppo, enjoy ripping this one................

 

[andy_b]

Really? Our hopes are that Adu can turn into C Ronaldo? Sorry, wont happen. He is overrated and to small. More Beasley then Ronaldo.

Adu and C Ronaldo are two totally different players.No one in their right mind would ever compare Freddy's playing style to C Ro's IMO. Dempsey has a much closer playing style to C Ro than Adu ever would.

Adu was mentioned specifically, because El Floppo mentioned having a player who was more "point guardish" which is exactly the skill set Adu has. Not sure how you took that to mean he needs to play like C Ro.

I dont know whats worse about this game, the announcers, the US' play or the ref.

I think Wynalda is a great announcer.He is well spoken. He has played the game at the highest levels. And he is not afraid to call any or all of the players out when they suck.

Stone and Hopkins I could do with out.

Why isnt someone getting in the opponants face after three kicks to our players midsection/head? Dont need to get a yellow, just back up your boy. One thing hot head Wayne Rooney does well. Prime example in the Manu v Boro game after the bad whack on Ronaldo, his whole team got his back. US is timid.

Comparing the closeness of a club team that eats and sleeps together with a national team blooding numerous players who likely have never even met each other doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. As the US team grows together with this new unit, the bonds will form that will account for them looking out for each other.If you think that players like Dempsey, Gooch, Twellman, Ching, Conrad etc are timid, then I think we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Eddie Johnson is worthless. He is in a track meet just turning and running for goal. He cant serve a ball when he does control it on the wings and he cant score to save his life. Heck we do not have any PURE goal Scorers.

On this point I agree 100%. EJ has to return to MLS and simply find his game, else his once promising career looks like it is stuck in neutral.

the 6'2 210 forward that came in late. Wynalda said he isnt good with his back to the goal or in the air. DISGRACE. At that size with his build he should be able to post up, bring a ball down turn and shoot. Sad that he is on the national team and cant do it.

You misunderstood him.The player you are refering to is Kenny Cooper from FC Dallas. He was mentioned in this post here

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6481768

What Wynalda was saying was that when you first look at Cooper, all you see is size and people automatically think "target forward". The beauty of Cooper is that his foot skills and quickness are excellent for a man of his size, meaning that he can be much more than a pure target forward.

Donovan is NOT world class. He is good in the open field but easily marked out of the game. Just listen to the comments on Ruiz's ability to get open. Landon can not do that. He may be great in the MLS but put him in the world stage and he is nothing.

Yes, as he clearly showed in 2002.Its kind of sad that how well Landon has played his entire career, that 2.5 bad games last summer seems to be stuck in everyones mind.

I guess the only way to change that is in South Africa, it doesn't seem that anything else at club or country level that he does will ever matter.

That being said, I also agree he is not world class. But my definition of World Class is the top 15-20 players in the entire world.

Stop waiting for ADU and develop these better players.

Interesting comment, considering that Adu might already be a better player than the current group being blooded and he is 5 years or more younger than them.

 

[guru_007]

Wow, I really agreed a lot with what B-Maverick had to say.

Guatemala had no one over 6' other than their goalkeeper, and a majority of the players were 5'8 or less. US should have exploited this early and often.

Eddie Johnson doesn't show much at all (but I haven't watched enough US soccer to call him worthless just yet).

While I don't think Donovan is world class either, I think he is a terrific player. I think his height/build takes away a bit from his progress though. A guy like Ballack is huge and can bully people off the ball, and control the play a lot better because of his stature. Donovan is obviously never going to have that in his game, but when he is on, I think he is very good.

And lastly, I think Wynalda is a big step up from Balboa....but the homerism needs to be toned down a notch or 6. His knowledge of the game, and in particular the US side is very good, but he needs to be a bit more objective in the game calling.

 

[andy_b]

From here on out, teams are going to mark Donovan right out of the game. The only thing left to be seen is if we can find some other way to score goals.

I don't think this will happen in my opinion, at least not every game.I think what we are all forgetting is just how bunkered in Guat was. It was not like they placed a single player on Donovan and marked him out of the game. They basically had their entire team minus Ruiz behind the ball at all times.While this was great for protecting their team, Guat did not produce even one single scoring opportunity.If teams play like this against the US, its almost assured that the US would never lose outside of a fluke.My guess is that many of the CONCACAF teams not named Mexico will all bunker when they play us here, but will be forced to come out of their shells at home, where they won't be able to afford a game where they produce zero chances.The US will be in an interesting position of likely having to be VERY patient at home, while being able to play a style that more suits their skills set away.As always, it won't be an easy qualifying round, but the depth and skill level seem to be there at keeper, defense and midfield (assuming Landon in the midfield). Some where in MLS we have to find some strikers that want to grab the WIDE open slots at striker.Its not a far stretch to think that one of the starting strikers in South Africa (should the US qualify) may be a player who has never been capped before. Lord knows our current group is not grabbing the spot left open by McBride's retirement.

 

[El Floppo]

(B Maverick @ Mar 29 2007, 01:08 PM)

Really? Our hopes are that Adu can turn into C Ronaldo? Sorry, wont happen. He is overrated and to small. More Beasley then Ronaldo.

Adu and C Ronaldo are two totally different players.

No one in their right mind would ever compare Freddy's playing style to C Ro's IMO. Dempsey has a much closer playing style to C Ro than Adu ever would.

Adu was mentioned specifically, because El Floppo mentioned having a player who was more "point guardish" which is exactly the skill set Adu has. Not sure how you took that to mean he needs to play like C Ro.

I agree with Andy here... C Ronaldo is a pure winger- put him in the middle and he loses some of his ability (granted, he's still a monster wherever he is). Adu seems better in the middle of the field. The US actually has guys on the flanks who I have some hope for- Mapp, DMB, Dempsey, a guy for KC who made the 06 WC team.That said- from what I've seen of Adu, he's more of a Donovan type player- best running at goal with his pace and skills. He is NOT the solution for the US middle of the field. I see Feilhaber as a hope, but a long ways off. (eta: I'm talking about a guy who will run the team, the #10 of the Maradonna variety. I see Adu and Donovan as 2-guards, not point-guards- slashing towards the hoop or pumping in shots, not directing traffic.

By way of comparison with Man U- it's more Paul Scholes (what Reyna previously was for Man City and the USMNT) than Ronaldo. Without Scholes on the field for Man U, they are forced to play through wings (not so bad with Ronaldo there) and more directly. He allows them to work the ball around, hold it and free up the forwards with more angles than over the top or down the wings.

QUOTE

I dont know whats worse about this game, the announcers, the US' play or the ref.



I think Wynalda is a great announcer.

He is well spoken. He has played the game at the highest levels. And he is not afraid to call any or all of the players out when they suck.

Stone and Hopkins I could do with out.

Again- I agree with Andy. Wynalda and Chris Sullivan (wasn't there last night) are great color announcers- very knowledgable and very good at explaining the nuances of the action- especially things like getting some payback on the player who kicked our guy when he was down.I actually like Rob Stone of all the play-by-play guys out there. He actually played the sport (through college) and has a sense for some of the rhythm of the game. No other play-by-play announcer in the States does that. Hopkins was a little much, IMO, and he and Stone tread on eachother's toes too much. Should be just Wynalda and Stone.

QUOTE

Why isnt someone getting in the opponants face after three kicks to our players midsection/head? Dont need to get a yellow, just back up your boy. One thing hot head Wayne Rooney does well. Prime example in the Manu v Boro game after the bad whack on Ronaldo, his whole team got his back. US is timid.

Comparing the closeness of a club team that eats and sleeps together with a national team blooding numerous players who likely have never even met each other doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. As the US team grows together with this new unit, the bonds will form that will account for them looking out for each other.

If you think that players like Dempsey, Gooch, Twellman, Ching, Conrad etc are timid, then I think we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Now I disagree with Andy. Wynalda saw it clearly- as did anybody watching the game on TV. The Guat #8 was teeing up on our guy- granted, he was within the rules... but his intent was clear to take advantage of that and to try to inflict harm. I don't care whether that team had never even practiced together- this isn't a pickup game- these guys are wearing their country's colors and somebody should have made a mental note, "kick #8" and done it. This has nothing to do with timidity, this has to do with taking care of business.

And FWIW- Rooney is an idiot. If he'd wait at least 2 or 3 plays later before he went after whoever pissed him off, he'd avoid almost all of the yellows and reds he gets.

QUOTE

Eddie Johnson is worthless. He is in a track meet just turning and running for goal. He cant serve a ball when he does control it on the wings and he cant score to save his life. Heck we do not have any PURE goal Scorers.

On this point I agree 100%. EJ has to return to MLS and simply find his game, else his once promising career looks like it is stuck in neutral.

EJ, like the rest of the team, can't play with his back to the goal. He needs to run at goal with the ball or else he's useless. He seemed to be the target man last night and he proved to me that that shoudln't be his role.

QUOTE

the 6'2 210 forward that came in late. Wynalda said he isnt good with his back to the goal or in the air. DISGRACE. At that size with his build he should be able to post up, bring a ball down turn and shoot. Sad that he is on the national team and cant do it.

You misunderstood him.

The player you are refering to is Kenny Cooper from FC Dallas. He was mentioned in this post here

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6481768

What Wynalda was saying was that when you first look at Cooper, all you see is size and people automatically think "target forward". The beauty of Cooper is that his foot skills and quickness are excellent for a man of his size, meaning that he can be much more than a pure target forward.

FWIW- that's what I understood too, that Cooper was better suited to play with his ball at his feet and NOT with his back to goal. Hope he actually can post up, or else he's another EJ, which we don't need.

QUOTE

Donovan is NOT world class. He is good in the open field but easily marked out of the game. Just listen to the comments on Ruiz's ability to get open. Landon can not do that. He may be great in the MLS but put him in the world stage and he is nothing.

Yes, as he clearly showed in 2002.

Its kind of sad that how well Landon has played his entire career, that 2.5 bad games last summer seems to be stuck in everyones mind.

I guess the only way to change that is in South Africa, it doesn't seem that anything else at club or country level that he does will ever matter.

That being said, I also agree he is not world class. But my definition of World Class is the top 15-20 players in the entire world.

I don't know about this- LD can take over games- even at the international level. And that IS the sign of somebody who has world class ability. Unfortunately, to make him a worldclass player, I agree that he needs somebody to get him the ball better and he needs to learn how to deal with people marking him more tightly. I've never seen a team focus on him the way Guatamela did last night, and he just didn't know how to get open.

I like the comments about Ruiz- not THERE is a guy who can get open... and usually finish the opportunities he gets.

QUOTE

Stop waiting for ADU and develop these better players.

Interesting comment, considering that Adu might already be a better player than the current group being blooded and he is 5 years or more younger than them.

I don't think anybody's waiting for Adu, other than the media who's still trying to figure out what happened to this guy they devoted so much attention to when he signed. We'll see how he does this year for a new team, with more responsiblity on the field. I still think he'll have a presence for the USMNT during qualifying and in 2010.

 

[andy_b]

That said- from what I've seen of Adu, he's more of a Donovan type player- best running at goal with his pace and skills. He is NOT the solution for the US middle of the field. I see Feilhaber as a hope, but a long ways off. (eta: I'm talking about a guy who will run the team, the #10 of the Maradonna variety. I see Adu and Donovan as 2-guards, not point-guards- slashing towards the hoop or pumping in shots, not directing traffic.

yah, I guess you can look at it as the organizer type of point guard(Stockton), or the slashing and dishing version (Chris Paul, Nash).Adu does not have the skill set needed to be an organizer ala say Valderamma I agree. Feilhaber seems to have more of that skill set.

Wynalda saw it clearly- as did anybody watching the game on TV. The Guat #8 was teeing up on our guy- granted, he was within the rules... but his intent was clear to take advantage of that and to try to inflict harm. I don't care whether that team had never even practiced together- this isn't a pickup game- these guys are wearing their country's colors and somebody should have made a mental note, "kick #8" and done it. This has nothing to do with timidity, this has to do with taking care of business.

I completely agree with the theory, I just think (perhaps niavely) that when you have so many new players on a side, especially being blooded at the senior level, that very very few players are going to risk a red card which could be a one way ticket to never being called in again for a long time.

I don't think anybody's waiting for Adu, other than the media who's still trying to figure out what happened to this guy they devoted so much attention to when he signed.

Someone should tell the media he is 17 years old and progressing fine. Anyone who expected anything different before this was sniffing glue. That being said, I think this year is an important one for Freddy. He will be captaining the U20 side in Canada and will likely be one of the youngest players at the entire tournament. He will also be given free run in the midfield in RSL.It will be interesting to see how he progresses.

 

[andy_b]

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...494&cc=5901

 

[jpeace121]

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...494&cc=5901

I was just about to come in here and ask Floppo what he thought of this...Also, United and MLS have finalized the transfer of Fred. There was money involved, but no one knows how much. Black eye for Melbourne with the way they handled this. The good news is that he'll be eligible to play for us next Tuesday in Guadalajara. And we'll need him...

Andy, as for Donovan, I seem to remember one man marking him most of the game. Not sure who it was, though (Figueroa, maybe?). And Ruiz did have at least one half chance in that game.

 

[andy_b]

Andy, as for Donovan, I seem to remember one man marking him most of the game. Not sure who it was, though (Figueroa, maybe?).

Every time Landon touched the ball, there was always 3 players enveloping him immediately because they had so many players behind the ball. I agree that there was likely one person assigned to never leave him, but I also think the tactics called for anyone close to converge and not let him turn at any cost.

 

[andy_b]

Here is a nice MLS full color preview. Well worth the print out

http://www.lasoccernews.com/downloads/mls2007.pdf

 

[Mjolnirs]

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...494&cc=5901

From the article:

The 30 year-old Mathis is expected to join NYRB in Charleston, South Carolina where the team is training through Sunday in preparation for their season opener against the Columbus Crew on April 7.

I'll be at NY's game Saturday night here. I don't know if they would even get him in, but with him being a former Gamecock he would get a warm welcome.

 

[Sammy3469]

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...494&cc=5901

From the article:

The 30 year-old Mathis is expected to join NYRB in Charleston, South Carolina where the team is training through Sunday in preparation for their season opener against the Columbus Crew on April 7.

I'll be at NY's game Saturday night here. I don't know if they would even get him in, but with him being a former Gamecock he would get a warm welcome.

I still have an old signed Mathis US Nat Team jersey I won watching the 2002 WC quarter at some Metrostars viewing party or should I say :mohawk:

 

[B Maverick]

Dont get me wrong, i am in no way saying adu is even half as good as ronaldo, it was just a statement about the type of player you were looking at. Cristiano is a winger who takes people on, runs at the defense and makes things happen. But he can turn people as well. The Us has noone that does that. Donaovan is not consistant at it and he isnt going to create space for himself. Adu and Beasley are too small and the bigger teams will have their way with them.

As for the Rooney comments, I wasnt asking anyone to get a yellow or a red. Just show some support for your team and back your boy up. Rooney gets a card for stepping on the field, he has a bad rep (mostly deserved). But your teammate on a national team is getting pounded and noone is helping? You dont have to be close to support your team. Mental notes are fine but a whack later is just as likely to be noted and carded by the ref as it is if you push a guy away from kicking your teammate.

Wynalda has too much love for Donovan, its like madden for favre and vick. Landon had a great cup 4 years ago when he wasnt the focal point. Now he is and he cant handle it. He isnt a leader. And he is scared to let his spotlight be shared. He wants to be the big fish in the little pond. He isnt going to share well with Becks. Think Jeter and ARod in NY.

Adu.... bid him farewell. I will cry is ManU signs him after his 18th.....

 

[andy_b]

Seems to be varying reports of different levels of validity but depending upon whom you believe The Fire have signed the Mexican Blanco and will announce it on Tuesday.

Grain of salt and all that

 

[El Floppo]

On our way to California tomorrow for a tournament. My daughter's team is the only one from outside of California in her age bracket. This will be an excellent test to see where we stack up right now...Details to follow.

We won the first game 2-0, second game 2-0 and lost the third game 4-1. The fields were terrible compared to what we are used to in Las Vegas - but the more we travel, the more we are realizing we are pretty spoiled here I guess.The first two games were cakewalks and we went into Sunday morning's game overconfident. The other team came out and attacked hard and fast - they were first to nearly every ball in the first half and after they scored two, several of our girls hung their heads. We beat them 1-0 in the second half, but unfortunately they counted the half where they scored 4 too.

Hey- I've been meaning to ask you- where was the tournament? (I grew up in NorCal)

 

[El Floppo]

Seems to be varying reports of different levels of validity but depending upon whom you believe The Fire have signed the Mexican Blanco and will announce it on Tuesday.Grain of salt and all that

Do I get a free bowl of soup for adding the Blanco/Fire rumor a couple weeks ago?

 

[El Floppo]

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...494&cc=5901

I was just about to come in here and ask Floppo what he thought of this...Also, United and MLS have finalized the transfer of Fred. There was money involved, but no one knows how much. Black eye for Melbourne with the way they handled this. The good news is that he'll be eligible to play for us next Tuesday in Guadalajara. And we'll need him...

Andy, as for Donovan, I seem to remember one man marking him most of the game. Not sure who it was, though (Figueroa, maybe?). And Ruiz did have at least one half chance in that game.

I'll be honest... didnt' even know Mathis was still playing.I have no idea what to think of adding him to the Bullstars. Him and Altidore up front... definitely better than Wolnyiak, who should be only be used to add some crazy late in the game (although he did score one of the best MLS goals I've ever seen- late in a game, bringing a 1/2 field through ball down immaculately and ripping it for the game winner.)

I always liked Mathis- he's a coquey mofo who never turned down an opportunity to take guys on and have a shot. But what the hell happened to him?

I vaguely remember he got hurt after the 02 WC- has he done anything since? Anybody know why he fell so far out of favor with the USMNT? Defensive liability? Laziness? Personel issues (didn't match well with McBride)?

 

[jpeace121]

Floppo, don't really know why Mathis fell out so quickly. I just know that lots of Red Bull fans were really disappointed that they ended up with Mathis after getting their hopes up based on the rumors that Angel might have been coming.

Also, CNNSI is reporting a rumor form tribalfootball.com (I don't know anything about this site or its reliability) that Adidas and MLS have started talking to Zidane about coming out of retirement to join Becks at the Galaxy. Interested to see if any of the other MLS teams cry foul on this if it actually happens.

And a reminder that the second legs of the Champions Cup matches are this week, with DC at Chivas Tuesday night and Houston at Pachuca Thursday night. Both matches are on FSC.

 

[El Floppo]

Floppo, don't really know why Mathis fell out so quickly. I just know that lots of Red Bull fans were really disappointed that they ended up with Mathis after getting their hopes up based on the rumors that Angel might have been coming.Also, CNNSI is reporting a rumor form tribalfootball.com (I don't know anything about this site or its reliability) that Adidas and MLS have started talking to Zidane about coming out of retirement to join Becks at the Galaxy. Interested to see if any of the other MLS teams cry foul on this if it actually happens.And a reminder that the second legs of the Champions Cup matches are this week, with DC at Chivas Tuesday night and Houston at Pachuca Thursday night. Both matches are on FSC.

andy will know better- but I thought LA was maxed out with their supah-dupah picks. The only Zidane rumors I'd been hearing were to the Fire or Bulls. I would personally LOVE to see him play here- anywhere. I've never seen a better player in person in my life- and that includes some of the best players of the last 25 years.

 

[jpeace121]

Monday morning updates:

Blanco to the Fire is a done deal. He will join the team at the end of may after the season ends in Mexico.

In the desparate search for a striker, the Red Bulls are now rumored to be pursuing Marcelo Salas (this comes from Galarcep's blog).

I haven't heard anything more on the Zizou rumors, but it's early in the day...

 

[Mjolnirs]

Good tournament starting tonight locally. The Carolina Challenge Cup here in Charleston.

Tonight: Charleston Battery v New York Red Bull followed by Toronto FC v Houston Dynamo

Wednesday: Charleston v Houston then New York v Toronto

Next Saturday: Charleston v Toronto then Houston v New York

Saturday 3/24Houston 2-0 Toronto

New York 1-0 Charleston (Charleston saved a Reyna PK then gave up a 91st minute goal

Wednesday 3/28

Toronto 2-1 New York

Houston 1-1 Charleston

Saturday 3/31

Toronto 3-0 Charleston

Houston 2-1 New York

Houston wins the tournament

Houston 2-1-0 5:2

Toronto 2-0-1 5:3

New York 1-0-2 3:4

Charleston 0-1-2 1:5

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

I'll be at NY's game Saturday night here. I don't know if they would even get him in, but with him being a former Gamecock he would get a warm welcome.

Mathis got into the game for about 20 minutes.

 

[andy_b]

The Zidane rumors don't make any sense IMO. Why would AEG spend that type of money and put him in LA where they are likely to already sell out every game with Becks.It doesn't make any financial sense.There is only one place Zidane should go if he plays and thats NY.And yes, El Floppo is correct, LA doesn't have any DP slots left. The only way they could obtain one would be to trade Donovan or package Cannon and Albright along with some huge arm twisting from MLS headquarters to grab one from a team not likely to spend on a DP in the near future (NE/Columbus come to mind).

I just know that lots of Red Bull fans were really disappointed that they ended up with Mathis after getting their hopes up based on the rumors that Angel might have been coming.

I can see the disappointment but no one should confuse Mathis and the second DP slot the Bulls have. The second DP slot is still open and will likely be filled this summer I bet.

 

[andy_b]

Good tournament starting tonight locally. The Carolina Challenge Cup here in Charleston.

Tonight: Charleston Battery v New York Red Bull followed by Toronto FC v Houston Dynamo

Wednesday: Charleston v Houston then New York v Toronto

Next Saturday: Charleston v Toronto then Houston v New York

Saturday 3/24Houston 2-0 Toronto

New York 1-0 Charleston (Charleston saved a Reyna PK then gave up a 91st minute goal

Wednesday 3/28

Toronto 2-1 New York

Houston 1-1 Charleston

Saturday 3/31

Toronto 3-0 Charleston

Houston 2-1 New York

Houston wins the tournament

Houston 2-1-0 5:2

Toronto 2-0-1 5:3

New York 1-0-2 3:4

Charleston 0-1-2 1:5

Clint Mathis was traded to the Red Bulls last night

:X I'll be at NY's game Saturday night here. I don't know if they would even get him in, but with him being a former Gamecock he would get a warm welcome.

Mathis got into the game for about 20 minutes.

Thanks for the info Mjolnirs. How were the crowds down there? I know Charleston has a cool little stadium(Blackbaud).

 

[eddiezz74]

I'm not a huge soccer fan, and I haven't read through this whole post, so this is probably a dumb question but...

I am going to be in London the week of May 17th-24th and just noticed that the FA Cup Final is on the 19th at Wembley Stadium. Is this something I should make 100% sure that I am in a Pub to see and experience?

 

[andy_b]

I'm not a huge soccer fan, and I haven't read through this whole post, so this is probably a dumb question but...I am going to be in London the week of May 17th-24th and just noticed that the FA Cup Final is on the 19th at Wembley Stadium. Is this something I should make 100% sure that I am in a Pub to see and experience?

It depends I guess. You said you are not a huge soccer fan, but if you are a general sports fan, you would enjoy the experience.The final match up is not yet set. You could find yourself with an absolute top notch match between Chelsea and Man United or a much weaker matchup between Blackburn and Watford (or any mixture of the two).Man U and Chelsea are absolutely loaded with some of the worlds best players.Watford and Blackburn hold some interest for US fans because US players are on both teams.My suggestion would be if Man U and Chelsea make it to the finals, do what ever you can to secure a ticket, it would be a once in a lifetime deal.If any other combo makes it, try and catch it in a London pub. Note that Watford and Chelsea are both clubs from London, so if either makes it, the pubs should be lively.

 

[eddiezz74]

I'm not a huge soccer fan, and I haven't read through this whole post, so this is probably a dumb question but...I am going to be in London the week of May 17th-24th and just noticed that the FA Cup Final is on the 19th at Wembley Stadium. Is this something I should make 100% sure that I am in a Pub to see and experience?

It depends I guess. You said you are not a huge soccer fan, but if you are a general sports fan, you would enjoy the experience.The final match up is not yet set. You could find yourself with an absolute top notch match between Chelsea and Man United or a much weaker matchup between Blackburn and Watford (or any mixture of the two).Man U and Chelsea are absolutely loaded with some of the worlds best players.Watford and Blackburn hold some interest for US fans because US players are on both teams.My suggestion would be if Man U and Chelsea make it to the finals, do what ever you can to secure a ticket, it would be a once in a lifetime deal.If any other combo makes it, try and catch it in a London pub. Note that Watford and Chelsea are both clubs from London, so if either makes it, the pubs should be lively.

Thanks for the info. When are the semi-final games?

 

[andy_b]

I'm not a huge soccer fan, and I haven't read through this whole post, so this is probably a dumb question but...I am going to be in London the week of May 17th-24th and just noticed that the FA Cup Final is on the 19th at Wembley Stadium. Is this something I should make 100% sure that I am in a Pub to see and experience?

It depends I guess. You said you are not a huge soccer fan, but if you are a general sports fan, you would enjoy the experience.The final match up is not yet set. You could find yourself with an absolute top notch match between Chelsea and Man United or a much weaker matchup between Blackburn and Watford (or any mixture of the two).Man U and Chelsea are absolutely loaded with some of the worlds best players.Watford and Blackburn hold some interest for US fans because US players are on both teams.My suggestion would be if Man U and Chelsea make it to the finals, do what ever you can to secure a ticket, it would be a once in a lifetime deal.If any other combo makes it, try and catch it in a London pub. Note that Watford and Chelsea are both clubs from London, so if either makes it, the pubs should be lively.

Thanks for the info. When are the semi-final games?

Manchester United vs Watford - April 14Chelsea vs Blacburn Rovers - April 15

 

[Sammy3469]

The Zidane rumors don't make any sense IMO. Why would AEG spend that type of money and put him in LA where they are likely to already sell out every game with Becks.It doesn't make any financial sense.There is only one place Zidane should go if he plays and thats NY.And yes, El Floppo is correct, LA doesn't have any DP slots left. The only way they could obtain one would be to trade Donovan or package Cannon and Albright along with some huge arm twisting from MLS headquarters to grab one from a team not likely to spend on a DP in the near future (NE/Columbus come to mind).

I just know that lots of Red Bull fans were really disappointed that they ended up with Mathis after getting their hopes up based on the rumors that Angel might have been coming.

I can see the disappointment but no one should confuse Mathis and the second DP slot the Bulls have. The second DP slot is still open and will likely be filled this summer I bet.

While Zidane to LA doesn't make much sense from a MLS perspective, I imagine LA and Beckham would probably be his first choice. He'd be on a team with someone he knows in a city that has to have some appeal to him. In any case, it's not like he would be coming here to for the soccer experience which I'm sure is going to piss people off. I mean if told the MLS brass I only want to come to MLS to play with Beckham would they really turn him down if the money made some sense? It's not like any rule is every set in stoen with MLS.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Thanks for the info Mjolnirs. How were the crowds down there? I know Charleston has a cool little stadium(Blackbaud).

Blackbaud is a great little soccer stadium. (Blackbaud Stadium)For me the crowds were a disappointment considering the teams playing.

The published numbers were around 1500, 1800, 2600 for the three nights, but being there I would say that was generous.

 

[andy_b]

I mean if told the MLS brass I only want to come to MLS to play with Beckham would they really turn him down if the money made some sense? It's not like any rule is every set in stoen with MLS.

LOL. Truer words have never been spoken It will come down to money. If he wants Beck's type money, I can't see it working out in LA. Granted he and Becks would likely sell out almost every away game they played, but from the early ticket sales, its looks like Becks could do that all by himself.

Best thing for MLS to do is to spend one more large chunk of money on a big name and get him in NY for 2 years (to bridge the new stadium opening).

 

[El Floppo]

I mean if told the MLS brass I only want to come to MLS to play with Beckham would they really turn him down if the money made some sense? It's not like any rule is every set in stoen with MLS.

LOL. Truer words have never been spoken It will come down to money. If he wants Beck's type money, I can't see it working out in LA. Granted he and Becks would likely sell out almost every away game they played, but from the early ticket sales, its looks like Becks could do that all by himself.

Best thing for MLS to do is to spend one more large chunk of money on a big name and get him in NY for 2 years (to bridge the new stadium opening).

From your mouth (fingers) to god's/MLS's ears. And I agree, re Mathis- I don't know anybody who's disappointed with the move. More a cautious optimism about him AND the DP. I really hope they don't blow that pick with somebody useless.

Was a bit pissed to see the Bulls give Toronto it's first victory against an MLS team. I'd have liked to think they'd play with a bit more pride than that.

eta: Blanco- great move by MLS- he's a huge personality who still has a little bit of game left (and a lot of flair for the dramatic)- he'll provide fun highlights, good and bad, for ESPN. Would've thought he'd end up somewhere with a more obvious hispanic community, but it's great he's here.

 

[andy_b]

eta: Blanco- great move by MLS- he's a huge personality who still has a little bit of game left (and a lot of flair for the dramatic)- he'll provide fun highlights, good and bad, for ESPN. Would've thought he'd end up somewhere with a more obvious hispanic community, but it's great he's here.

If you do some quick research on the Mexican club and Mexican National Team games in Chicagoyou will find they have been extremely well attended (understatement actually).

 

[jpeace121]

I mean if told the MLS brass I only want to come to MLS to play with Beckham would they really turn him down if the money made some sense? It's not like any rule is every set in stoen with MLS.

LOL. Truer words have never been spoken It will come down to money. If he wants Beck's type money, I can't see it working out in LA. Granted he and Becks would likely sell out almost every away game they played, but from the early ticket sales, its looks like Becks could do that all by himself.

Best thing for MLS to do is to spend one more large chunk of money on a big name and get him in NY for 2 years (to bridge the new stadium opening).

And I agree, re Mathis- I don't know anybody who's disappointed with the move. More a cautious optimism about him AND the DP. I really hope they don't blow that pick with somebody useless.

You guys must not be reading the Red Bull section of BS much lately. And I wasn't intimating that Cletus would take the place of the DP, just that in light of the news of a potential DP signing, bringing on Mathis doesn't produce the same level of excitement.