***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Moe.]

Do they pot the remaining 8 teams into two groups of four or is it just a random draw? If it's two pots I'd assume Turkey, Portugal, Czech Rep and Croatia in the seeded group with everyone else leftover. If I'm Ireland I'm hoping for the Czechs.

 

[scoobygang]

It wasn't that long ago that both France and England failed to qualify for USA 1994.

Less teams in the WC back then though to be fair. Only 12 teams from Europe got to qualify (Germany went through as the previous winners).

13 UEFA teams qualified for South Africa. There are about 20-25% more countries in Europe than there were 15 years ago.

Kind of cuts both ways, of course. Instead of three former Yugoslavian entities in the playoff, we'd have a monstrously talented united Yugoslavian team Vidic, Hamsek, Modric, Subotic, Dzeko, Vucinic, Stankovic, etc. A team as talented on paper as all but Spain or Germany.EDIT: I guess the breakup had already happened by 1994, though.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Do they pot the remaining 8 teams into two groups of four or is it just a random draw? If it's two pots I'd assume Turkey, Portugal, Czech Rep and Croatia in the seeded group with everyone else leftover. If I'm Ireland I'm hoping for the Czechs.

Here is the info from wikiThe draw for the play-offs will be held on 13 October 2011 in Kraków, Poland.After confusion caused by the UEFA play-offs for 2010 FIFA World Cup qualifying – which was originally to be an unseeded draw, but was seeded by FIFA in September 2009 – UEFA have announced that the draw for the play-offs will be seeded. The four runners-up with the best positions in the UEFA team coefficient ranking system will be seeded and will play their second legs at home.[6] Each nation's coefficient and ranking position for the draw and final Euro 2012 draw will be calculated per results up to and including 11 October 2011[9]:40% of the average ranking points per game earned in the UEFA Euro 2012 qualifying stage.40% of the average ranking points per game earned in the 2010 FIFA World Cup qualifying stage and final tournament.20% of the average ranking points per game earned in the UEFA Euro 2008 qualifying stage and final tournament.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Will UEFA be able to rig the playoff draw so that 4/5 of Ireland/Portugal/Croatia/Turkey/Czech make it through?

Why? Attendance and or tv viewing audience?

I don't know. Remember the 2010 World Cup qualification?

Ireland deserves a make-up callETA from FIFA

 

[NewlyRetired]

It wasn't that long ago that both France and England failed to qualify for USA 1994.

Less teams in the WC back then though to be fair. Only 12 teams from Europe got to qualify (Germany went through as the previous winners).

13 UEFA teams qualified for South Africa. There are about 20-25% more countries in Europe than there were 15 years ago.

Kind of cuts both ways, of course. Instead of three former Yugoslavian entities in the playoff, we'd have a monstrously talented united Yugoslavian team Vidic, Hamsek, Modric, Subotic, Dzeko, Vucinic, Stankovic, etc. A team as talented on paper as all but Spain or Germany.EDIT: I guess the breakup had already happened by 1994, though.

Yugoslavia was disqualified from qualifying that 1994 cycle.

 

[scoobygang]

Fifa rankings of the playoff teams ... My guess is that the other way the draw might be fixed would be to try to avoid putting Montenegro against either Croatia or Bosnia. Doubt they want another Egypt/Algeria debacle.

Ireland -29

Portugal - 5

Croatia - 9

Bosnia - 22

Estonia - 58

Montenegro -26

Turkey - 27

Czech Republic -40

 

[scoobygang]

Fifa rankings of the playoff teams ... My guess is that the other way the draw might be fixed would be to try to avoid putting Montenegro against either Croatia or Bosnia. Doubt they want another Egypt/Algeria debacle.Ireland -29Portugal - 5Croatia - 9Bosnia - 22Estonia - 58Montenegro -26Turkey - 27Czech Republic -40

Acually, according to the preliminary co-efficients, the seeded teams will be Croatia, Portugal, Ireland, and the Czech Republic.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Do they pot the remaining 8 teams into two groups of four or is it just a random draw? If it's two pots I'd assume Turkey, Portugal, Czech Rep and Croatia in the seeded group with everyone else leftover. If I'm Ireland I'm hoping for the Czechs.

Here is the info from wiki

The draw for the play-offs will be held on 13 October 2011 in Kraków, Poland.

After confusion caused by the UEFA play-offs for 2010 FIFA World Cup qualifying – which was originally to be an unseeded draw, but was seeded by FIFA in September 2009 – UEFA have announced that the draw for the play-offs will be seeded.

The four runners-up with the best positions in the UEFA team coefficient ranking system will be seeded and will play their second legs at home.[6] Each nation's coefficient and ranking position for the draw and final Euro 2012 draw will be calculated per results up to and including 11 October 2011[9]:

40% of the average ranking points per game earned in the UEFA Euro 2012 qualifying stage.

40% of the average ranking points per game earned in the 2010 FIFA World Cup qualifying stage and final tournament.

20% of the average ranking points per game earned in the UEFA Euro 2008 qualifying stage and final tournament.

If I understand it, this is the rankings

Which would seed Croatia, Portugal, Czech, and Turkey

eta - nevermind these were interim coefficients, and did not include all of the group stage games

 

[Steve Tasker]

Will UEFA be able to rig the playoff draw so that 4/5 of Ireland/Portugal/Croatia/Turkey/Czech make it through?

Why? Attendance and or tv viewing audience?

I don't know. Remember the 2010 World Cup qualification?

Not really. Did the UEFA playoffs get rigged then?

I had to research it myself. Sounds like it was more FIFA's fault than UEFA's.The UEFA playoffs were to be played in October 2009 - 8 teams for 4 spots. In 2006, FIFA had broken the final 8 playoff teams into 2 pods - pod 1 has the 1-4 FIFA ranked teams, pod 2 has the 5-8 ranked teams. FIFA did not make an official pronouncement on how (if at all) they would seed the 8 playoff teams for 2010 qualification, but it was heavily rumored that there would be no such seeding.In September 2009, just a month before the playoffs were to begin, France, Portugal, and Russia (ranked 9-10-12 in FIFA rankings at the time, respectively) had all been eliminated from their groups and were going to be in the playoff round. FIFA then announced that they would seed the teams as they had in 2006, causing a lot of uproar. Portugal ended up beating Bosnia (#42), France beat Ireland (#32) with the help of the famous Henry handball, and Russia lost to the worst-ranked team in the draw, Slovenia (#49). Greece (#16) beat Ukraine (#22) in the other playoff.

 

[Eephus]

It wasn't that long ago that both France and England failed to qualify for USA 1994.

Less teams in the WC back then though to be fair. Only 12 teams from Europe got to qualify (Germany went through as the previous winners).

13 UEFA teams qualified for South Africa. There are about 20-25% more countries in Europe than there were 15 years ago.

Kind of cuts both ways, of course. Instead of three former Yugoslavian entities in the playoff, we'd have a monstrously talented united Yugoslavian team Vidic, Hamsek, Modric, Subotic, Dzeko, Vucinic, Stankovic, etc. A team as talented on paper as all but Spain or Germany.EDIT: I guess the breakup had already happened by 1994, though.

Yugoslavia was disqualified from qualifying that 1994 cycle.

I was thinking of Bulgaria and Romania of teams that have declined in the past 15 years.

 

[Sinn Fein]

With just 8 teams, not sure why they don't just seed them all and set it up 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, and 4-5

 

[scoobygang]

If I understand it, this is the rankings

Which would seed Croatia, Portugal, Czech, and Turkey

That appears to be current to July. I got results which claim to be current as of today from here.

 

[NewlyRetired]

It wasn't that long ago that both France and England failed to qualify for USA 1994.

Less teams in the WC back then though to be fair. Only 12 teams from Europe got to qualify (Germany went through as the previous winners).

13 UEFA teams qualified for South Africa. There are about 20-25% more countries in Europe than there were 15 years ago.

Kind of cuts both ways, of course. Instead of three former Yugoslavian entities in the playoff, we'd have a monstrously talented united Yugoslavian team Vidic, Hamsek, Modric, Subotic, Dzeko, Vucinic, Stankovic, etc. A team as talented on paper as all but Spain or Germany.EDIT: I guess the breakup had already happened by 1994, though.

Yugoslavia was disqualified from qualifying that 1994 cycle.

I was thinking of Bulgaria and Romania of teams that have declined in the past 15 years.

Those two teams in the early 90's were driven by two all time greats in Hagi and Stoichkov. They have not come close to producing that level of genius but I wonder how much the general talent pool has shrunk for these two countries.

 

[Eephus]

With just 8 teams, not sure why they don't just seed them all and set it up 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, and 4-5

Because people like ceremonies

 

[Sinn Fein]

If I understand it, this is the rankings

Which would seed Croatia, Portugal, Czech, and Turkey

That appears to be current to July. I got results which claim to be current as of today from here.

I caught that afterwards.

 

[Eephus]

It wasn't that long ago that both France and England failed to qualify for USA 1994.

Less teams in the WC back then though to be fair. Only 12 teams from Europe got to qualify (Germany went through as the previous winners).

13 UEFA teams qualified for South Africa. There are about 20-25% more countries in Europe than there were 15 years ago.

Kind of cuts both ways, of course. Instead of three former Yugoslavian entities in the playoff, we'd have a monstrously talented united Yugoslavian team Vidic, Hamsek, Modric, Subotic, Dzeko, Vucinic, Stankovic, etc. A team as talented on paper as all but Spain or Germany.EDIT: I guess the breakup had already happened by 1994, though.

Yugoslavia was disqualified from qualifying that 1994 cycle.

I was thinking of Bulgaria and Romania of teams that have declined in the past 15 years.

Those two teams in the early 90's were driven by two all time greats in Hagi and Stoichkov. They have not come close to producing that level of genius but I wonder how much the general talent pool has shrunk for these two countries.

Romania beat England & Portugal in Euro 2000. I think Hagi was still around then but wasn't a major contributor.Bulgaria's run to the 94 semis was a blip.I think the current balance of power is pretty good. There are 13-15 European spots available for the big tournaments. The big powers will advance if they take care of business but a couple of poor road results can put them in jeopardy. UEFA and supporters get qualifiers that are somewhat meaningful plus playoffs that generate more revenue. The big federations get enough slots to qualify without cannibalizing themselves too badly. The mid-range countries get enough crumbs to fight over.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Same lineup for US, except for Gooch in for Fiscal

U.S. SOCCER (@ussoccer)

10/11/11 6:06 PM

#USMNT lineup v. Ecuador: Howard; Cherundolo, Onyewu, Bocanegra ©, Chandler; Beckerman; Williams, Edu, Shea; Dempsey, Altidore

 

[NewlyRetired]

It wasn't that long ago that both France and England failed to qualify for USA 1994.

Less teams in the WC back then though to be fair. Only 12 teams from Europe got to qualify (Germany went through as the previous winners).

13 UEFA teams qualified for South Africa. There are about 20-25% more countries in Europe than there were 15 years ago.

Kind of cuts both ways, of course. Instead of three former Yugoslavian entities in the playoff, we'd have a monstrously talented united Yugoslavian team Vidic, Hamsek, Modric, Subotic, Dzeko, Vucinic, Stankovic, etc. A team as talented on paper as all but Spain or Germany.EDIT: I guess the breakup had already happened by 1994, though.

Yugoslavia was disqualified from qualifying that 1994 cycle.

I was thinking of Bulgaria and Romania of teams that have declined in the past 15 years.

Those two teams in the early 90's were driven by two all time greats in Hagi and Stoichkov. They have not come close to producing that level of genius but I wonder how much the general talent pool has shrunk for these two countries.

Romania beat England & Portugal in Euro 2000. I think Hagi was still around then but wasn't a major contributor.Bulgaria's run to the 94 semis was a blip.I think the current balance of power is pretty good. There are 13-15 European spots available for the big tournaments. The big powers will advance if they take care of business but a couple of poor road results can put them in jeopardy. UEFA and supporters get qualifiers that are somewhat meaningful plus playoffs that generate more revenue. The big federations get enough slots to qualify without cannibalizing themselves too badly. The mid-range countries get enough crumbs to fight over.

The only thing I would change in UEFA is that I think they would benefit from a pre qualification stage for the micro minnows. Would help a little with fixture congestion and with totally no competitive games.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Same lineup for US, except for Gooch in for FiscalU.S. SOCCER (@ussoccer)10/11/11 6:06 PM#USMNT lineup v. Ecuador: Howard; Cherundolo, Onyewu, Bocanegra ©, Chandler; Beckerman; Williams, Edu, Shea; Dempsey, Altidore

And the subsU.S. SOCCER (@ussoccer)10/11/11 6:17 PMTonight's #USMNT subs: Rimando, Spector, Ream, Bradley, Beasley, Buddle, Agudelo

 

[NewlyRetired]

US looks much better tonight than against Honduras. Much better side they are playing but arguably the US has looked a little better in the first 15 minutes.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Did Darke just say Holden was out for another 6 months? I thought it was only suppose to be 2 months?

 

[NewlyRetired]

I was worried about Chandler crossing with his left foot but has hit two very nice crosses already.

 

[Moe.]

Did Darke just say Holden was out for another 6 months? I thought it was only suppose to be 2 months?

That's what they thought initially but now it looks like he's out til Spring. http://www.stuholden.com/2011/09/bolton-wanderers-website-stuart-holden-to-miss-six-months/

 

[Steve Tasker]

Williams clearly has superior ball skills to nearly all (if not all) current US midfielders.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Did Darke just say Holden was out for another 6 months? I thought it was only suppose to be 2 months?

That's what they thought initially but now it looks like he's out til Spring. http://www.stuholden.com/2011/09/bolton-wanderers-website-stuart-holden-to-miss-six-months/

Crap. Thanks.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Gooch looks really strong. I never thought he would get back to this level.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Cherundolo had an off game against Honduras and he has his hands full tonight.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Nice win by Germany today. Looking forward to the playoffs now.

Word out of Munich on Robben:

Ten Day Layoff

Arjen Robben undergoes groin surgery

Arjen Robben will be sidelined for the next ten days after undergoing groin surgery in Munich, Bayern announced on Friday. The 27-year-old Netherlands international withdrew from the Dutch squad for the Euro 2012 qualifiers against Moldova and Sweden and returned to Munich on Thursday, reporting immediately to club Chief Medical Officer Dr. Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt for an examination and treatment.

“Due to a pubic bone inflammation, the player has developed a weak groin [a so-called sportsman's groin, an early-stage hernia] over the last few days. Surgery was successfully performed on the groin injury this morning by Prof. Dr. Dr. Tomas Hoffmann at Maria-Theresia hospital in Munich,“ Dr. Müller-Wohlfahrt commented on Friday. The medical unit expects Robben to resume training in around ten days.

Ouch!

 

[El Floppo]

My seats are amazing- to the left of the center stripe (on camera) about 1/3 of the way to the goal, 9 rows up. I'm the unbearably good looking guy- ill wave.

So- does Cherundolo look as bad on TV as he does here- getting eaten alive.

Pretty sloppy- but decent shape through the middle. Dempsey playing deeper the way I had hoped to fill the space between the central mfs and jozy.

 

[NewlyRetired]

My seats are amazing- to the left of the center stripe (on camera) about 1/3 of the way to the goal, 9 rows up. I'm the unbearably good looking guy- ill wave.So- does Cherundolo look as bad on TV as he does here- getting eaten alive.Pretty sloppy- but decent shape through the middle. Dempsey playing deeper the way I had hoped to fill the space between the central mfs and jozy.

Yes, Cherundolo looks to have been raped a few times. In the first half were you on Chandlers or Cherundolos side?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Bob Bradley's first game in charge will be against Brazil next month.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Montero is the best player on the field tonight. Dynamic young player.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Oh my. Two strikers.

 

[Steve Tasker]

What the #### is that marking by Tim Ream? Horrible.

 

[scoobygang]

Tim Ream is the soccer equivalent of sake. I want to like it. People I respect like it. Sometimes I think I've never given sake a fair chance. But every time I try sake, I hate it.

 

[NewlyRetired]

We better hope George John and Gonzalez don't get chances with Greece and Mexico.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Tim Ream is the soccer equivalent of sake. I want to like it. People I respect like it. Sometimes I think I've never given sake a fair chance. But every time I try sake, I hate it.

I've been probably a bit too critical of him in here, but yeah. Maybe it's because I don't watch many RBNY games.

 

[TLEF316]

still don't get the appeal of Beckerman.

He's an untalented (relatively speaking) hard worker with below average speed who provides nothing on offense. He's basically a white Ricardo Clarke who just makes fewer mistakes.

 

[Steve Tasker]

still don't get the appeal of Beckerman.He's an untalented (relatively speaking) hard worker with below average speed who provides nothing on offense. He's basically a white Ricardo Clarke who just makes fewer mistakes.

I'm thinking it's just Klinsmann feeling his way through it and giving guys a chance. Every time Bradley gets on the field, he shows his class compared to Beckerman. Bradley is a pretty good player; Beckerman is an average player. I have to think that once Bradley gets a little more settled at his new club, he'll be replacing Beckerman in the lineup.....right?

 

[scoobygang]

Tim Ream is the soccer equivalent of sake. I want to like it. People I respect like it. Sometimes I think I've never given sake a fair chance. But every time I try sake, I hate it.

I've been probably a bit too critical of him in here, but yeah. Maybe it's because I don't watch many RBNY games.

He gets schooled every time I watch RBNY too. Admittedly, that's not too often. But I just don't get it. Great, he can pass. Last I checked, CBs had to defend too.

 

[Bonzai]

still don't get the appeal of Beckerman.He's an untalented (relatively speaking) hard worker with below average speed who provides nothing on offense. He's basically a white Ricardo Clarke who just makes fewer mistakes.

It just kinda clicked for me with him tonight. I've always complained when I've seen him in there too, but I think the stability he brings is useful. He's like a janitor cleaning things up and then putting them where they're supposed to go. Like a good hippie, he's egoless. I think it's good to have that kind of presence in the midfield while Klinsmann figures out his squad. I still don't think he's the answer long term, though.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Ream made a glaring bad error.

But you can't win if you can't score.

The US is not good enough to play perfectly defensively and will have some breakdowns each game and good teams will punish us. We need to find a way to get some damn goals. This is a horrible run of games offensively.

 

[NewlyRetired]

still don't get the appeal of Beckerman.He's an untalented (relatively speaking) hard worker with below average speed who provides nothing on offense. He's basically a white Ricardo Clarke who just makes fewer mistakes.

It just kinda clicked for me with him tonight. I've always complained when I've seen him in there too, but I think the stability he brings is useful. He's like a janitor cleaning things up and then putting them where they're supposed to go. Like a good hippie, he's egoless. I think it's good to have that kind of presence in the midfield while Klinsmann figures out his squad. I still don't think he's the answer long term, though.

This is a good analysis. When you factor in his relatively advanced age, I don't think any of us think he is a long term solution.

 

[The Z Machine]

Thoughts on Donovan and Dempsey up top in a 4-4-2, with them alternating who plays higher? You guys keep telling me that LD can't play with his back to the goal, well #### I don't see anyone else on the team that can do it either.

You can put Shea and Adu (hell DMB looked decent lately) on the wings and put Edu and Bradley in the middle of the park to disrupt the opposition and control the tempo.

Something has to be done on offense. Jozy is looking better, but he needs help, help he's not getting when the US plays 5 midfielders. The US needs creativity, but more importantly it needs finishing.

Hasn't Barça shown that you can win with 10 midfielders on the field?

ETA: You know the US is in bad shape if Mexico can hang with or take down Brazil tonight.

 

[Steve Tasker]

still don't get the appeal of Beckerman.He's an untalented (relatively speaking) hard worker with below average speed who provides nothing on offense. He's basically a white Ricardo Clarke who just makes fewer mistakes.

It just kinda clicked for me with him tonight. I've always complained when I've seen him in there too, but I think the stability he brings is useful. He's like a janitor cleaning things up and then putting them where they're supposed to go. Like a good hippie, he's egoless. I think it's good to have that kind of presence in the midfield while Klinsmann figures out his squad. I still don't think he's the answer long term, though.

This is a good analysis. When you factor in his relatively advanced age, I don't think any of us think he is a long term solution.

Pretty much. He's certainly less mistake-prone than Ricardo Clark.

 

[The Z Machine]

Beckerman pisses me off less than he used to. That said, he's not a game winner or someone I want on the pitch against anyone but the 2nd rate concacaf teams.

 

[The Z Machine]

I have to think that Rafa is a liability back there for MEX. They have to have someone better.

 

[jonessed]

Something that struck me as odd was the terrible delivery from set pieces. I don't know if the US just doesn't have anyone that can make a decent delivery or this was an anomaly, but it was downright awful.

 

[The Z Machine]

Uf. Bad defense by brazil there. Mexico up 1-0 on an own goal.

This game is end to end already. No way they can keep this pace. BTW if Gio isn't the most dynamic, explosive attacking talent in CONCACAF Id like to see who is.

 

[The Z Machine]

Something that struck me as odd was the terrible delivery from set pieces. I don't know if the US just doesn't have anyone that can make a decent delivery or this was an anomaly, but it was downright awful.

LD usually takes them so that's part of it.