***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[Tremendous Upside]

That first Netherlands goal MIGHT be questionable due to vagaries in the offsides rule, but the Orange took it to the Azzuri all game long

This is not the same Italy squad that won WC06

I wouldn't be shocked to see Romania and the Netherlands emerge from this group this year

Both France and Italy look old

 

[Steve Tasker]

What. The. ####.

What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable. I knew the Dutch were good, but that was total domination.

Donadoni is a ####### idiot. De Rossi needs to be in the game, and Grosso needs to be in the game before the 70th minute. I hope he gets fired when Italy doesn't make it out of the group stage.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I'm even more pissed because I taped both of these games while I was at work today. I made sure not to visit any news sites, and I even made a point of staying out of this thread. At my soccer game tonight, I told everyone not to ruin it for me...they all kept telling me the Italy game was great....

Then I get back here at 8 PM, and settle in for a nice night of football from the group of death.....

First, I sit through a 0-0 semi-snoozer...it had its moments, but there wasn't much in it.

Then I finally get to my team....and watch them get utterly thrashed....now it's midnight and I got absolutely nothing accomplished tonight.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Yeah and but I don't give a #### right now. I am downright livid.

 

[awesomeness]

What. The. ####.What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable. I knew the Dutch were good, but that was total domination.Donadoni is a ####### idiot. De Rossi needs to be in the game, and Grosso needs to be in the game before the 70th minute. I hope he gets fired when Italy doesn't make it out of the group stage.

besides being of Italian descent, how does one become a fan of Italy's national soccer team?

 

[Steve Tasker]

What. The. ####.What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable. I knew the Dutch were good, but that was total domination.Donadoni is a ####### idiot. De Rossi needs to be in the game, and Grosso needs to be in the game before the 70th minute. I hope he gets fired when Italy doesn't make it out of the group stage.

besides being of Italian descent, how does one become a fan of Italy's national soccer team?

I'm of Italian descent....

 

[awesomeness]

What. The. ####.What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable. I knew the Dutch were good, but that was total domination.Donadoni is a ####### idiot. De Rossi needs to be in the game, and Grosso needs to be in the game before the 70th minute. I hope he gets fired when Italy doesn't make it out of the group stage.

besides being of Italian descent, how does one become a fan of Italy's national soccer team?

I'm of Italian descent....

carry on.

 

[Steve Tasker]

What. The. ####.What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable. I knew the Dutch were good, but that was total domination.Donadoni is a ####### idiot. De Rossi needs to be in the game, and Grosso needs to be in the game before the 70th minute. I hope he gets fired when Italy doesn't make it out of the group stage.

besides being of Italian descent, how does one become a fan of Italy's national soccer team?

I'm of Italian descent....

carry on.

Shut uppa you mouth! (making hand gesture)Seriously though, I don't know how anyone could be a fan if they don't have Italian blood...they're such an easy team to hate. I'm actually more German than Italian, but the Italian side has always loved football, and that's why I'm a big fan.Other than the USMNT, Italy is "my team" when it comes to international play.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

What. The. ####.What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable. I knew the Dutch were good, but that was total domination.Donadoni is a ####### idiot. De Rossi needs to be in the game, and Grosso needs to be in the game before the 70th minute. I hope he gets fired when Italy doesn't make it out of the group stage.

besides being of Italian descent, how does one become a fan of Italy's national soccer team?

I'm of Italian descent....

carry on.

Shut uppa you mouth! (making hand gesture)Seriously though, I don't know how anyone could be a fan if they don't have Italian blood...they're such an easy team to hate. I'm actually more German than Italian, but the Italian side has always loved football, and that's why I'm a big fan.Other than the USMNT, Italy is "my team" when it comes to international play.

I'm a mutt, 1/4 English/Irish/Italian/Swedishthat said, I always feel like I should root more for the Italians given my heritage, but I find it pretty much impossible to do soThey were outclassed for 90 minutes tonightHopefully my Swedes can perform tomorrow against defending champs greecethe Swedes have a solid but old team also, will be interesting to see how they respondIbrahimovic baby!

 

[boubucarow]

The second Holland goal showed tremendous skill and teamwork with three wonderfully placed balls. It was a joy watching Holland today.

 

[Sand]

It seems pretty intuitive to me. If the defender can get up and come back into play, then he is in play. It's totally illogical to not count him until he gets back into the play. What if he was running back into the play? One second he counts. Then he doesn't. Then he counts again. The really sad part is he wasn't actually hurt and he just laid there while his team gave up a goal.

Very interesting play. I played for 25 years competitively (as a striker, no less) and never can remember this situation ever coming up.As a striker, though, I can definitively say that this was absolutely the right call. Oh, and go big orange. Awesome game today.

 

[Ozymandias]

It seems pretty intuitive to me. If the defender can get up and come back into play, then he is in play. It's totally illogical to not count him until he gets back into the play. What if he was running back into the play? One second he counts. Then he doesn't. Then he counts again. The really sad part is he wasn't actually hurt and he just laid there while his team gave up a goal.

Very interesting play. I played for 25 years competitively (as a striker, no less) and never can remember this situation ever coming up.As a striker, though, I can definitively say that this was absolutely the right call. Oh, and go big orange. Awesome game today.

The post game reaction from the head of referees is that the call was absolutely correct. But additionally, the Italians were overwhelmed by a much superior team, on the day.

 

[andy_b]

What. The. ####.What a bitter disappointment. I didn't realize I was the only fan of the Azzurri on this board, but that was unbelievable.

you are not the only on. I am a fan, sometimes though more by decsent than by choice. Maldini is probably my favorite player of all time. However the way the Italians approach the game is almost 180 degrees out of phase with how I like to watch it.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I've never seen an Italian team look like they did yesterday - complete disarray defensively, really the exact opposite of what I expect to see when Italy is playing in a big tournament.

Conversely, France and Romania played excellent defense - particularly Maka, the man of the match. I've seen him play dozens of times with Chelsea and am very familiar with his game. It is such a pleasure to see someone play his position with such skill and tactical expertise, not to mention tremendous fitness for an old man. Reminded me somewhat of how Cannavaro played in Germany two years ago.

The next matchday in that group is going to be great.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

That first Netherlands goal MIGHT be questionable due to vagaries in the offsides rule, but the Orange took it to the Azzuri all game long

This is not the same Italy squad that won WC06

I wouldn't be shocked to see Romania and the Netherlands emerge from this group this year

Both France and Italy look old

That's what I've been thinking too.And here's more on Van Nistelrooy's goal (who actually should have made at least 1 more for a striker of his caliber).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/socc...d.ap/index.html

 

[Smeagol]

Can the Spaniards finally pull it off this year? Lets hope so.

Torres nets 2 today.

 

[B Maverick]

Can the Spaniards finally pull it off this year? Lets hope so.Torres nets 2 today.

1-0 Spain, 21st min torres sets up villa. nice outlet from the back, torres beats his man, slots it to Villa at the 12 yard spot for an open goal....ETA Russia had an open shot in front and hits the post!

 

[B Maverick]

Can the Spaniards finally pull it off this year? Lets hope so.Torres nets 2 today.

Nice call on the double, just wrong player. Villa gets his second just before the half. 2-0 SpainBoth goals on the counterattack. Russia knocking on the door but forgetting to keep theirs closed.

 

[andy_b]

Has there been a game yet where both teams have scored???

 

[Mjolnirs]

Has there been a game yet where both teams have scored???

 

[B Maverick]

and theres the hat trick for Villa!

 

[whoknew]

I'll say this about the Spaniards -- they certainly like each other a lot.

 

[TLEF316]

and theres the hat trick for Villa!

wow

 

[B Maverick]

Has there been a game yet where both teams have scored???

Has now. Russia scored to make it 3-1 in the 86th....

 

[whoknew]

Has there been a game yet where both teams have scored???

Has now. Russia scored to make it 3-1 in the 86th....

4-1.

 

[prefontaine]

I know Spain has a ridiculous level of skill but the Russians have major defensive problems. It's like they don't teach marking of men in Russia.

 

[The Z Machine]

I was having computer issues this morning and missed the Spain match. Typical Spanish start to a tourney... start out white hot and then fade down the stretch. Maybe this time it will be different. I can only hope.

Oh, and even though I'm 1/2 Italian, and have a German last name (as well as English and French blood), I cheer for Spain.

 

[prefontaine]

I was having computer issues this morning and missed the Spain match. Typical Spanish start to a tourney... start out white hot and then fade down the stretch. Maybe this time it will be different. I can only hope.Oh, and even though I'm 1/2 Italian, and have a German last name (as well as English and French blood), I cheer for Spain.

I actually thought the group didn't do them any favors. It's good that they throttled Russia because I think both Greece and Sweden are not good matchups for them. I could see them losing either of those games (though a draw is much more likely). But given the good gd vs Russia, they shouldn't have too much of a concern advancing now.

 

[guru_007]

the online commentary for the Greece/Sweden game is pretty funny. I guess it has not been the most entertaining of games played.

 

[Onions]

the online commentary for the Greece/Sweden game is pretty funny. I guess it has not been the most entertaining of games played.

Link?

 

[LHUCKS]

sucks that England didn't qualify...

 

[prefontaine]

First Sweden goal...beauty. Second Sweden goal (like 3 minutes later)...ugly.

 

[whoknew]

Wow. This has been an ugly game but Sweden has exploded with 2 goals - the last one of which was just horrible. UGLY. "A Greek Tragedy" as described by the announcer.

 

[B Maverick]

First Sweden goal...beauty. Second Sweden goal (like 3 minutes later)...ugly.

When i was coaching HS, i could never get the players to realize the ugly goal is just as important as the pretty goal. I never cared how it went in as long as it went in! In the paper all it says is B Maverick GOAL. Never says B Maverick UGLY GOAL.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

sucks that England didn't qualify...

I think the fact that England was third in their qualifying group behind Croatia and Russia (and lost to both) - combined with the fact that those two teams have been among the most disappointing after one matchday - clearly indicates that England doesn't deserve to be in the euro tourney this year.

 

[The Z Machine]

sucks that England didn't qualify...

I think the fact that England was third in their qualifying group behind Croatia and Russia (and lost to both) - combined with the fact that those two teams have been among the most disappointing after one matchday - clearly indicates that England doesn't deserve to be in the euro tourney this year.

Yup. They didn't earn it. They thought they could coast in, and they failed. Honestly, they never should have taken Becks off the team. Same thing for Real two years ago. Both groups thought he was washed up, but clearly he's still got something to bring to the field, and that's 1) true danger on free kicks, and 2) professionalism through and through.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

First Sweden goal...beauty. Second Sweden goal (like 3 minutes later)...ugly.

When i was coaching HS, i could never get the players to realize the ugly goal is just as important as the pretty goal. I never cared how it went in as long as it went in! In the paper all it says is B Maverick GOAL. Never says B Maverick UGLY GOAL.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Just got done watching today's 2 games (work is killing me but I'm able to keep up with the action ). Some thoughts:

- Russia looked awful. As a few people noted, England should be pretty much embarrassed that they couldnt get out of the group. If Russia plays like that, they shouldn't expect to win a game.

- Spain looked good, but I'll take the "wait and see approach". I was surprised to see Fabregas start the game on the bench....do they regard him very lightly in Spain (Z Machine? Anyone?)? Either way, I expect them to win the group....Villa =

- Who here suggested a Torres/Villa partnership a few weeks ago (hint: me)

- Sweden looked good...should coast to a 2nd place finish in the group

- Greece looked solid in the back but blew it at the end. They could have had a 0-0 draw in that one, but Ibrahimovic's pure class strike and the flub 2nd goal put them at a big disadvantage early.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Although an impressive win to be sure, Spain cannot be trusted in these tournaments until they prove themselves - maybe this is the year but I won't bet on it. It has been the same strory without exception since I started following FIFA and UEFA tournaments in 1986. 2006 in Germany was a good example, when Spain looked like the strongest team in the tournament opening with a huge win over Ukraine and taking 9 points on three wins in the group stage, only to crap out as usual in the first knock-out round. Conventional wisdom is that Spain plays wonderfully in the easier rounds, but can't perform when the pressure is on and always has particular difficulty against strong defensive teams.

I am most impressed with Holland who handled a very good Italian team, and the Germans remain the favorite for me due to depth and fitness - hugely important in the Euro tourney where the first three games are packed into 8 days and the knock-out games are only 3-5 days apart.

I also think Russia, Poland and Greece may still surprise and would not count Italy out of the group of death, but they probably have to come up with two wins to advance.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I still think Germany wins it all.

When Spain makes it to the final 4....I'll stop being so skeptical.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

Czech Republic vs Portugal should be a good one tonight.

 

[guru_007]

Although an impressive win to be sure, Spain cannot be trusted in these tournaments until they prove themselves - maybe this is the year but I won't bet on it. It has been the same strory without exception since I started following FIFA and UEFA tournaments in 1986. 2006 in Germany was a good example, when Spain looked like the strongest team in the tournament opening with a huge win over Ukraine and taking 9 points on three wins in the group stage, only to crap out as usual in the first knock-out round. Conventional wisdom is that Spain plays wonderfully in the easier rounds, but can't perform when the pressure is on and always has particular difficulty against strong defensive teams.

I agree here, and will add Portugal to the mix of tremendously talented teams that I wouldn't trust to win these type tournaments. Brazil is about the only offensively dynamic team that has fared well almost every major tournament.....but even so, they had some pretty gifted defenders. Knockout round is pretty unpredictable and I'd rather have the sound defensive team with a potent counter attack.

 

[The Z Machine]

My take on teams that can win it all:

1) Holland

2) Spain

3) Germany

4) Italy

5) Portugal

In that order. I don't think that Germany has the talent to beat either of the top 2 teams. To me, Spain has the talent advantage over ever other team in the tournament. Their lineup is pure class throughout (weakest player being Marchena, a DC). Cesc on the bench is simply indicative of Spain having too many good attacking midfielders. Xavi earned his starting spot in WC2006 and in qualifying for this tourney. Iniesta is well liked in Spain for sure, and is regarded as a fixture in the Spain lineup. Silva is the player I can see most easily swapped with Cesc, as their games are similar enough in style not to cause too many problems. Both are young and will be fighting over this spot for years I think. Senna is the old man of the bunch, and really the only holding/defensive midfielder in the group (and on the team). They need him as a counterbalance to the attack up front, as well as the puch up the flanks from Sergio Ramos.

Cesc isn't taking lightly in Spain, and the fans (and coaches) definitely saw what he did in the EPL this season. He hasn't quite proven his stripes though in "la roja" just yet, but I can see him getting plenty of playing time (and possibly a start this next round) as a result of his play in the first game. He's obviously got tons of talent.

The following players are all 22 or under: Torres, Villa, Cesc, Silva, Xavi, Sergio Ramos. That's a core group of up and comers for Spain. They need one defensive midfielder and a handful of center backs / defensive wingers and they have their team for the next 6 years I think.

Personally, I think that Cesc should be starting over Silva, and maybe over Iniesta as well, but that's my take.

Final Spain news: Torres was upset at being taken out (after they were already up big) and refused to shake the hand of Aragonés as he was coming off the field. The drama and infighting have already begun... I think Aragonés is a stubborn ###, and may not view that action highly. You might see Güiza with some PT, or maybe going with 5 MFs.

 

[ffldrew]

Czech Republic vs Portugal should be a good one tonight.

Looking good - lots of action

 

[The Z Machine]

BTW, 1-1 Czech - Portugal right now... Deco with a nice shot (Ronaldo assist), but Czech Rep. came right back with a header off a corner. Seemed to be a defensive breakdown for Portugal on that one.

 

[The Z Machine]

Anyone got a streaming link for us office rats?

 

[andy_b]

BTW, 1-1 Czech - Portugal right now... Deco with a nice shot (Ronaldo assist), but Czech Rep. came right back with a header off a corner. Seemed to be a defensive breakdown for Portugal on that one.

are you sure it was an assist for Ro? From the commentary it didn't look like it?"Ronaldo has the ball again. He beats Ufalusi but Cech saves with his feet......The ball squirms to Deco and Cech recovers to make another block; but Deco finally smashes the ball past two defenders on the line to give Portugal the lead. GOAL!!!!

 

[The Z Machine]

BTW, 1-1 Czech - Portugal right now... Deco with a nice shot (Ronaldo assist), but Czech Rep. came right back with a header off a corner. Seemed to be a defensive breakdown for Portugal on that one.

are you sure it was an assist for Ro? From the commentary it didn't look like it?"Ronaldo has the ball again. He beats Ufalusi but Cech saves with his feet......The ball squirms to Deco and Cech recovers to make another block; but Deco finally smashes the ball past two defenders on the line to give Portugal the lead. GOAL!!!!

I was reading the Spanish commentary, and they said it was an assist, but they could be wrong.

 

[B Maverick]

this game has gotten to be very sloppy. passes arent crisp, touches are not close, lot of fouls. Esp by Portugal. very sloppy game just before the half.

 

[ffldrew]

BTW, 1-1 Czech - Portugal right now... Deco with a nice shot (Ronaldo assist), but Czech Rep. came right back with a header off a corner. Seemed to be a defensive breakdown for Portugal on that one.

are you sure it was an assist for Ro? From the commentary it didn't look like it?"Ronaldo has the ball again. He beats Ufalusi but Cech saves with his feet......The ball squirms to Deco and Cech recovers to make another block; but Deco finally smashes the ball past two defenders on the line to give Portugal the lead. GOAL!!!!

I was reading the Spanish commentary, and they said it was an assist, but they could be wrong.

It wouldn't be an assist in my book - but maybe the Utah Jazz statisticians are pitch side.