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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

Now to comment on Spain.

This was a poor match all the way around for them. The Americans got somewhat lucky, but a lot of the blame for this loss falls on the shoulders of 4 people: Villa, Capdevilla, Cesc, and Ramos.

I would agree w/ DP when he said that Ramos is the most dangerous two-way player in the world. He can play brilliantly from end line to end line making tackles, muscling players off of balls, winning balls in the air, running down opposing wingers, as well as making extremely dangerous overlapping runs, taking the ball himself up the sideline, making great crosses, and finally beating guys with the ball at his feet in the box. There's not a lot of players that can do that. Dani Alves comes close, as does Wayne Rooney actually (who really plays outstanding one on one defense). That said, the guys is prone to some stupid, stupid mistakes. On Dempsey's goal, he obviously had no idea that Demp was right there, otherwise he would have done something else with the ball. It was a really bad error to try and trap it with the bottom of the shoe from within the "area pequeña". He made a similar mistake in the EUROS against Sweden or Russia. Simply put, other world class defenders make far fewer errors than Ramos.

Villa had a tough match. He should have finished on a few balls that were there for the taking. He seemed to get bodied up too much and wasn't doing his "run past the defender to get open for a diagonal pass that he plays back to a trailing attacker" thing that he does so well. His touch was still fantastic however, and Altidore can learn a thing or two from that guy.

Cesc disappointed in this game. He made some good runs at the US defense, but never seemed to find his rhythm in the center of the park. Nonetheless I wouldn't have pulled him as he didn't seem that tired, and Cazorla doesn't bring that much. (By the way, it sure looks like Xavi misses his partner in crime Iniesta... Riera is a poor replacement).

Capdevilla. He got beat and beat up by Altidore. There's simply not a good reason to be out of position and outmuscled like that on Altidore'g goal. He's obviously the weakest link in Spain's defense, and it doesn't help that Riera isn't all that great to take some pressure off him. I might actually consider Puyol at left back and put Albiol in ther center spot. Piqué again showed that he's got a lot of passion for the game. What a soldier (although he looks like a bull in bullfight when he takes the ball upfield himself).

Spain didn't play their game. They didn't finish and they didn't have the smooth as silk passing and running that they've shown over the last 2 years. Give a lot of credit to the US, but it sure looked like they were rattled at times, and probably way overconfident. Del Bosque (and the Spanish press) also has to take some of the blame for this by not preparing them well (like asking questions only about Brazil).

BTW, in an article on a Spanish online newspaper, the headline for this game read: "No we can't" (not translated). I thought that was pretty funny.

 
The best view is from behind the net at the end, where you can see the priceless look on Sergio Ramos' face when he realizes he is the goat. One thing that I don't understand, why does L. Donovan refuse to shoot on goal in these situations? He got more than a bit lucky on this play and I think there would me more discussion of his poor decision making if Ramos hadn't gifted this one to us.
yeah the ball he played was probably the third best option at that point, as others have said jozy was in great position and pretty wide open. i like the fact that he is always looking for other people, but sometimes the best option is to just shoot the ball.
 
Cesc disappointed in this game. He made some good runs at the US defense, but never seemed to find his rhythm in the center of the park. Nonetheless I wouldn't have pulled him as he didn't seem that tired, and Cazorla doesn't bring that much. (By the way, it sure looks like Xavi misses his partner in crime Iniesta... Riera is a poor replacement).
I agree (and not just because I'm a Barcelona fan). After the match, Bradley talked about how they focused on trying to limit Xavi's options. The US wouldn't have been able to focus on him so much if Iniesta wasn't injured.
Can't say I was hurt at all to see Ramos as the guy that gave up the final goal today.
I agree (because I'm a Barcelona fan). :football:
 
shiite moslem. Sorry guys.

I do sometimes get you mixed up as you both played soccer at a high level, right?

DP, did you play when you were over in Valladolid?

 
shiite moslem. Sorry guys.I do sometimes get you mixed up as you both played soccer at a high level, right?DP, did you play when you were over in Valladolid?
:football: I think we're about the same age.I wouldn't really call it a "high level". I played at at a high level when I was younger but got hurt all the time (still do)....I play amateur USASA stuff now...I have no idea if I'm good enough for semi-pro but I'd like to give it a shot with some tryouts in a few years if I can stay healthy.ETA: El Floppo is the one who could've signed for a Serie C team (I think?) and played semi-pro.
 
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I think this US team finally found an identity today. That was American style Don't Tread on Me soccer out there on the field and it looked good. Tough tackles, high energy, world class saves, and making the most of opportunities.

I have never been a LD fan but he's won me over in this tournament. I wish he would shoot more when given the chance, but his fitness level and work rate is second to none. I won't ever say a bad word about this guy again. His efforts demand respect.

That bicycle kick by Davies was one of the highlights of the best 20 minutes of soccer I have ever seen from the USMNT against world class competition. I know it wasn't the prettiest attempt, but I'm proud he attempted it.

The defense and goaltending was rock solid. It was ironic that Spain would be the side to make all the mistakes after conceding only 11 goals in the last 35 games.

Jozy made a great physical move to get that shot off, but overall it seems like he dogs it too much or loses focus. It's hard to tell watching on TV but his work rate needs to increase.

Feilhaber needs to play more.

Adu looks tiny on TV. I know he's small but when the camera cut to the sidelines after Jozy and Dempsey were subbed out, Adu looked like he was waist high to a Hobbit. That said, I would love to see him get some PT in the Final.

 
One thing in the back of my mind right now is that Mexico parlayed a couple good results in this tournament four years ago into a seeded position in the world cup. I think they finished 4th, but along the way they beat Brazil and played Argentina to a draw in regulation before losing on PK's. Its never easy to advance from a world cup group, but you'd always prefer to be a seeded team so you can avoid the other top 7 teams in the group stage.
FIFA will magically change the criteria once again and somehow make Mexico a seed and screw us over. Absent us hosting or actually winning the World Cup, I can't imagine FIFA ever giving us that kind of break like the cake group that Mexico got in '06.-QG
 
Does there have to be a CONCACAF team in pot a, or it is just the top 8 teams? If it's the latter surely neither Mex nor the US will get a seed.

 
Cesc disappointed in this game. He made some good runs at the US defense, but never seemed to find his rhythm in the center of the park. Nonetheless I wouldn't have pulled him as he didn't seem that tired, and Cazorla doesn't bring that much. (By the way, it sure looks like Xavi misses his partner in crime Iniesta... Riera is a poor replacement).
I agree (and not just because I'm a Barcelona fan). After the match, Bradley talked about how they focused on trying to limit Xavi's options. The US wouldn't have been able to focus on him so much if Iniesta wasn't injured.
Xavi and Iniesta know each other so well. It's hard to develop that kind of chemistry just playing on the national team together. On top of that, Iniesta through the CL run was playing in peak form. So while I disagree that Riera is a "poor replacement" (I guess I just wish we had such poor replacements lol) I will agree that it is a dropoff.
 
Does there have to be a CONCACAF team in pot a, or it is just the top 8 teams? If it's the latter surely neither Mex nor the US will get a seed.
No we don't have to get one and it is pretty unlikely we do. I think they look at the last 3 WCs in the point system and we finished close to last in two of them (they actually rank all the teams). Last time, Mexico had advanced to the 2nd round in 94, 98, and 02 as well as their good Confederation showing.
 
Does there have to be a CONCACAF team in pot a, or it is just the top 8 teams? If it's the latter surely neither Mex nor the US will get a seed.
No we don't have to get one and it is pretty unlikely we do. I think they look at the last 3 WCs in the point system and we finished close to last in two of them (they actually rank all the teams). Last time, Mexico had advanced to the 2nd round in 94, 98, and 02 as well as their good Confederation showing.
Actually here's an article about Mexico getting a seed last time. It is only the last 2 WCs so maybe we have a shot if they haven't changed the formula. We at least got a point last time.
 
Riera simply doesn't bring the passing and vision that Iniesta brings to the game. Furthermore, I've never really been astomnded by his play, either with the roja or with 'pool. I prefer David Silva who passes better and can play IMO. Riera does have a height advantage, and that means something on that team that has Xavi, Iniesta, and Villa.

Silva is dinged up though, so I can see why del Bosque went with Riera in this case.

Furthermore, there's no way that I put Cesc on the right and Xavi in the middle.

Final comment on Spain. Xabi Alonso hasn't helped himself in locking down a starting role for them. Marcos Senna played his position exceptionally well in EURO2008, and will likely be back in that position for WC2010 unless he's hurt (like he was for the Confed). He's good, but lacks something and sometimes can disappear for stretches.

 
Does there have to be a CONCACAF team in pot a, or it is just the top 8 teams? If it's the latter surely neither Mex nor the US will get a seed.
No we don't have to get one and it is pretty unlikely we do. I think they look at the last 3 WCs in the point system and we finished close to last in two of them (they actually rank all the teams). Last time, Mexico had advanced to the 2nd round in 94, 98, and 02 as well as their good Confederation showing.
Actually here's an article about Mexico getting a seed last time. It is only the last 2 WCs so maybe we have a shot if they haven't changed the formula. We at least got a point last time.
I believe the US may have an outside chance at a #1 seed but they would need the following to happen to even have a shot (depending on what math they use).1) Need to win Confed Cup

2) Need to win Gold Gup

3) Need to finish first in WC Qualifying (this is arguably the toughest of the 3 considering they have already made the final of the Confed cup and anything can happen in one game).

If they do all 3 of these items, I would not have a problem with them grabbing one of the 8 seeds. They will still likely end up with a Euro giant (someone like Holland).

 
I have never been a LD fan but he's won me over in this tournament. I wish he would shoot more when given the chance, but his fitness level and work rate is second to none. I won't ever say a bad word about this guy again. His efforts demand respect.
I have been a huge LD fan since following him way back on the U17 WC when he won the golden ball at that tournament. He has certainly had his ups and downs but the effort he is giving is out of this world as you mentioned.I know there are some stats which track how much players run in a game. His number must have been off the charts yesterday.
 
DMB is done. LD can supplant him on the left side just fine. He may not even get called up for the WC if he doesn't turn things around.

Also, is it normal for Bocanegra to wear the captain's armband? I thought that LD usually wore it.
Bocanegra has been captain for a while. Landon would be vice-captain.What really scares me is injuries between now and the Cup. Is there anyone that can take Landons spot if he goes down? As scary as it is, that might be Adu's spot. Torres would get the first shot, but he kinda scares me. Landon is a player that must be healthy next year.

As awesome as the last two results are we can't dismiss the total crap that was the first two games. No DMB is great, but it took coach Bradley a handfull of suck to make the change. I'm not sold on him keeping the job, but he will have it for another year at least and then I can revisit.

I honestly hope we get Brazil in the finals to see what we can do differently. Beating South Africa and taking the title would be nice, but I want to see the rematch.

Speaking of Brazil, is it coaching or talent that stops us from having players like Maicon. I'm an Inter fanboy so I have manlove for the guy, but I would love to see real skilled wingers on the US squad. Even if it is just one side. I know Maicon is top 1-3 in the world in his position, but I'm talking more in general about style.

ETA: Christo addressed the captain deal.
Again- the US, IMO, played decently against Italy- pretty similar to the effort against Spain, just lacking the finish (obviously) and 11 players. Against Spain, they did take their effort up to 11 though... especially in those first 20 minutes.I think you could argue every player at every position for Brasil has better skills than any player for the US... but Cherundulo has been a very good attacking outside back capable of taking guys on and whipping good crosses in. In Maicon's range? No. But as you say- stylewise, yes.

 
Is anyone else getting extremely frustrated with Jozy? We all see the good, but I wonder if the potential is some how clouding our judgment of his ceiling?

I know a lot is made of his age (19) but I have been watching soccer long enough to realize that by age 19, you either have a touch on the ball or you don't. Yesterday, Jozy put on a display that made Alexi Lalas look like a ballet dancer when handling the ball.

Jozy has significant problems doing what has to come natural to some one his size, and that's accepting a pass and distributing it. Even someone as limited as Ching can do this much better than Jozy can.

For people who track player development, is this a skill that Jozy can learn going forward? He is never going to get steady time at the club level with out this basic skill IMO.

Speaking of steady time, for the US to get into the knock out rounds next year, Jozy, Spector, and Benny must all find a way to get steady time and have everyone else who is already getting time continue to do so. The US can not afford to be wasting friendly games going into next summer working on getting Jozy and others timing down.

 
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Is anyone else getting extremely frustrated with Jozy?
:lmao: I think he is best suited to play maybe the last 20-30 minutes of the game.I didn't make any comments on the US game yesterday, but I thought they played a really nice game. Agree that Gooch and Demerit in the back were awesome, and really love watching Donovan play - he looks exhausted after 5 minutes, but never ever stops playing/running hard. Maybe it's his diminutive nature that gives me this impression, but, to me, he is a great player to watch, probably my favorite US player since Ramos.I will say it's nice to reach a final, but it is only the Confederation cup. Sure, we get to play some world class talent, but as witnessed in the first two games, let's not go overboard here with the one win. I think the nicest thing about yesterdays victory, well besides snapping Spains unbeaten streak, was the confidence it hopefully has instilled in the mens team and shown what they can do. Getting the first goal was huge - really enabled them to pack the box, and while Spain did control possession, and had a ton of corners, for the most part they were kept to the outside and any of their crosses were ably defended by the US. That type of game will work great against Spain who like to build their attack through the middle of the field.I didn't see why Iniesta didn't play, was he injured? Not at all implying his absence was the reason for the US victory, as Spain has talent to spare, I just was curious.Cheers USMNT :yawn:
 
I will say it's nice to reach a final, but it is only the Confederation cup. Sure, we get to play some world class talent, but as witnessed in the first two games, let's not go overboard here with the one win.
I have been struggling with how happy I should feel based on this tournament. Last night I settled upon "very happy" for the following 2 reasons1) I believe all the teams are playing their best players and are playing as hard as they would in a World Cup. Spain's energy is chasing the game yesterday was fantastic. This is the furthest thing from a friendly IMO.2) Unlike most people in the media and the fan base, I actually thought the US played well against the Italians. Too many people are looking at the score line and assuming the US sucked when in reality there were obvious extenuating circumstances.
 
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I will say it's nice to reach a final, but it is only the Confederation cup. Sure, we get to play some world class talent, but as witnessed in the first two games, let's not go overboard here with the one win.
I have been struggling with how happy I should feel based on this tournament. Last night I settled upon "very happy" for the following 2 reasons1) I believe all the teams are playing their best players and are playing as hard as they would in a World Cup. Spain's energy is chasing the game yesterday was fantastic. This is the furthest thing from a friendly IMO.
oh, I definitely agree that other teams are fielding their best players and playing to win and I'm not trying to dismiss the US win as insignificant.It is kinda funny though how just about a week ago, people were calling for Bradley's head and looking to totally blow up the USMNT and saying how so and so was no good, etc.. And sure, I'm just as guilty as these kind of thoughts as anyone else.Also wanted to note I thought Bocanegra played a particularly strong game, he doesn't get much in the way of attention, but he is pretty solid all around.And, I don't get the love for Davies. A few strong minutes, and all of the sudden he is getting support for a starting 11 spot for sure? This is the type of over exuberance going on, imho. Bradley sees these guys play every day for months, years and knows what they are capable of doing. It's difficult to throw out a starting lineup that works, some coaches can do this successfully for long stretches at a time (usually moreso on a club level than national level) and some can't. To me, Davies strong start was overshadowed by his particularly weak finish. He looked lost, and imo, should have been subbed out. :hey:
 
Is anyone else getting extremely frustrated with Jozy?
:bye: I think he is best suited to play maybe the last 20-30 minutes of the game.

I didn't make any comments on the US game yesterday, but I thought they played a really nice game. Agree that Gooch and Demerit in the back were awesome, and really love watching Donovan play - he looks exhausted after 5 minutes, but never ever stops playing/running hard. Maybe it's his diminutive nature that gives me this impression, but, to me, he is a great player to watch, probably my favorite US player since Ramos.

I will say it's nice to reach a final, but it is only the Confederation cup. Sure, we get to play some world class talent, but as witnessed in the first two games, let's not go overboard here with the one win. I think the nicest thing about yesterdays victory, well besides snapping Spains unbeaten streak, was the confidence it hopefully has instilled in the mens team and shown what they can do. Getting the first goal was huge - really enabled them to pack the box, and while Spain did control possession, and had a ton of corners, for the most part they were kept to the outside and any of their crosses were ably defended by the US. That type of game will work great against Spain who like to build their attack through the middle of the field.

I didn't see why Iniesta didn't play, was he injured? Not at all implying his absence was the reason for the US victory, as Spain has talent to spare, I just was curious.

Cheers USMNT :excited:
Yes him and Senna...who was probably the bigger loss since we attacked the space Ramos exposed when he did try to go forward especially in the first half....Alonso had some problems covering up that Senna probably wouldn't have had.I'm still sort of stunned that Spain didn't attack the flanks better especially getting to the end line. The really needed to get our defense turned and just never could do it. To basically play with such a deep-tight backline (Spector and Boca were basically playing RCB and LCB instead of wide backs) just invited Ramos into the attack, but Spain really didn't exploit that space well.

Also, Xavi had his lowest pass completion rate by far in the tourney (in the low 70s from a 90% average) so the middle was certainly cloged well.

 
Cesc disappointed in this game. He made some good runs at the US defense, but never seemed to find his rhythm in the center of the park. Nonetheless I wouldn't have pulled him as he didn't seem that tired, and Cazorla doesn't bring that much. (By the way, it sure looks like Xavi misses his partner in crime Iniesta... Riera is a poor replacement).
I agree (and not just because I'm a Barcelona fan). After the match, Bradley talked about how they focused on trying to limit Xavi's options. The US wouldn't have been able to focus on him so much if Iniesta wasn't injured.
Can't say I was hurt at all to see Ramos as the guy that gave up the final goal today.
I agree (because I'm a Barcelona fan). :excited:
:bye: I turned to my friend that I was watching the game with a bit before the second goal and told him that if Andres were playing we wouldn't be able to contain them. Which isn't saying too much negative about the US as nobody in the world can stop Iniesta and Xavi right now.

Still Reira is not in the same league as Iniesta or David Silva on the left flank. I would even say Mata should be starting over him.

 
Well, off to my season opener.The team we play tonight won 14-1 on Monday. :excited:
After taking a 3-0 lead into the half we held on for a 4-3 win. :bye: We play 6 v 6 and they had one sub, we had 14! We were doing line changes every 4 minutes and wore them down in the heat.
 
Is anyone else getting extremely frustrated with Jozy?
:hey: I think he is best suited to play maybe the last 20-30 minutes of the game.

I didn't make any comments on the US game yesterday, but I thought they played a really nice game. Agree that Gooch and Demerit in the back were awesome, and really love watching Donovan play - he looks exhausted after 5 minutes, but never ever stops playing/running hard. Maybe it's his diminutive nature that gives me this impression, but, to me, he is a great player to watch, probably my favorite US player since Ramos.

I will say it's nice to reach a final, but it is only the Confederation cup. Sure, we get to play some world class talent, but as witnessed in the first two games, let's not go overboard here with the one win. I think the nicest thing about yesterdays victory, well besides snapping Spains unbeaten streak, was the confidence it hopefully has instilled in the mens team and shown what they can do. Getting the first goal was huge - really enabled them to pack the box, and while Spain did control possession, and had a ton of corners, for the most part they were kept to the outside and any of their crosses were ably defended by the US. That type of game will work great against Spain who like to build their attack through the middle of the field.



I didn't see why Iniesta didn't play, was he injured? Not at all implying his absence was the reason for the US victory, as Spain has talent to spare, I just was curious.

Cheers USMNT :confused:
Iniesta reinjured his right thigh late in league play against Villareal. This injury had sidelined him for several different weeks this season. After the Villareal match, he focused exclusively on getting ready for the CL final and now is taking two months to try to fully recuperate as it appears it was aggravated it further against ManU. His fantastic forum in the second half of the season is particularly noteworthy considering how this nagging injury affected him.

I was looking at this video this week and it shows how dominant he can be on the pitch. He scored a goal and had the assist on the other three goals against Sevilla(3rd place la Liga side).

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=inie...=en&tab=wv#

 
re: Jozy... Andy- I agree that his touch has gotten progressively worse at the Confed Cup... not a good sign. But I think we can chalk this up to some really worn out legs after not having played for so long (let alone being injured). At least, that's what I'm hoping this is. We've seen him play very well on the ball for entire games (RedStars), so I don't think we should worry too much... plus, in Spain- if he ever gets PT- you can't ask for a better environment to foster touch. btw- He also looked really tight and nervous in the 2nd half when victory suddenly became a possibility... his first 3 or 4 touches were absolute drek.

I have actually liked his instincts, outside of a couple of miscommunications, he's been making good runs. I'd have to see him play live to really understand what he's doing- but from what I've seen he is lightyears ahead of where Eddie Johnson was in terms of knowing when and where to move.

Andy- I've been saying the same thing about the Italy game. The US created opportunities to score and played the italians competitively, even though they were clearly the less skilled side. I mentioned that the US had the look in their eyes and on the pitch that they were capable of beating the Italians from the opening whistle. Until Rossi came on, the Italians looked unlikely to score- even against 10. I agree- people are looking at the scoreline and just lumping that game into the Brasil game (which was a disgraceful, embarrassing performance)... plus, Rossi got that 3rd goal right at the whistle which scoreline read far worse than it was.

re: Iniesta and Senna... totally agree with all of you- that twosome would have been lethal against the US on both sides of the ball. Iniesta and Xavi... can't remember a better twosome in the middle.

Mjol- congrats on the win!

 
shiite moslem. Sorry guys.I do sometimes get you mixed up as you both played soccer at a high level, right?DP, did you play when you were over in Valladolid?
I never played soccer beyond a high school level.I was in Valladolid to study abroad which meant much more sangria than soccer.
 
Desert_Power said:
The Z Machine said:
shiite moslem. Sorry guys.I do sometimes get you mixed up as you both played soccer at a high level, right?DP, did you play when you were over in Valladolid?
I never played soccer beyond a high school level.I was in Valladolid to study abroad which meant much more sangria than soccer.
Mebbe me? Div 1 college (top 25), semi-pro (don't read too much into that- there was NO MLS or any other kind of pro league at the time, so college players and immigrants played in Cosmopolitan leagues... some got payed well- I remember a Central Amercian team moved a guy up from El Salvador and covered his living expenses- but most of us made essentially beer/gas money. I got 40 a game :shrug: with bonuses for scoring... 50, IIRC.) I was a better youth player- ODP and all of that. I think there's an FFA who was a consistent East Regional youth team member who played with or against Charlie Davies... Neo, or Morpheus... one of the Matrix names.
 
Anybody seeing the game on the front page of their local newspapers?

I haven't looked yet.

It's definitely getting international coverage, and some nice comments by international readers about the game... haven't seen a single typical "US didn't deserve it", even from Spanish readers.

Also- Torres said some nice things about the US afterwards, but I can't find it. Anybody?

 
Desert_Power said:
The Z Machine said:
shiite moslem. Sorry guys.I do sometimes get you mixed up as you both played soccer at a high level, right?DP, did you play when you were over in Valladolid?
I never played soccer beyond a high school level.I was in Valladolid to study abroad which meant much more sangria than soccer.
Mebbe me? Div 1 college (top 25), semi-pro (don't read too much into that- there was NO MLS or any other kind of pro league at the time, so college players and immigrants played in Cosmopolitan leagues... some got payed well- I remember a Central Amercian team moved a guy up from El Salvador and covered his living expenses- but most of us made essentially beer/gas money. I got 40 a game :toilet: with bonuses for scoring... 50, IIRC.) I was a better youth player- ODP and all of that. I think there's an FFA who was a consistent East Regional youth team member who played with or against Charlie Davies... Neo, or Morpheus... one of the Matrix names.
Were you the one who could've signed in Italy?
 
I just read something that Michael Bradley was waiting for the ref that sent him off in the tunnel after the game. According to the article in the Spanish press (as.com) he insulted him AND intended to attack him (presumably physically). It went on to say that FIFA needs to investigate his actions and give him a sanction.

This is the first I've heard of that. Are there any other reports?

 
Anybody seeing the game on the front page of their local newspapers?

I haven't looked yet.

It's definitely getting international coverage, and some nice comments by international readers about the game... haven't seen a single typical "US didn't deserve it", even from Spanish readers.

Also- Torres said some nice things about the US afterwards, but I can't find it. Anybody?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252009/frontback.htmGot upper right hand headline placement in the NY Post (no pics)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/06/..._back_06_25.jpg

Upper banner headline in NY Daily News with pic of Jozy

 
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Anybody seeing the game on the front page of their local newspapers?
Well, there is a bigger local story here in South Carolina for the Front page, but there is a picture of Dempsey and teaser to page 5c on the front page of the sports section.Actually there is a story about the Battery on the front of the sports page too, so two soccer articles in sports today.
 
prefontaine said:
prefontaine said:
Moe. said:
Does there have to be a CONCACAF team in pot a, or it is just the top 8 teams? If it's the latter surely neither Mex nor the US will get a seed.
No we don't have to get one and it is pretty unlikely we do. I think they look at the last 3 WCs in the point system and we finished close to last in two of them (they actually rank all the teams). Last time, Mexico had advanced to the 2nd round in 94, 98, and 02 as well as their good Confederation showing.
Actually here's an article about Mexico getting a seed last time. It is only the last 2 WCs so maybe we have a shot if they haven't changed the formula. We at least got a point last time.
FIFA changes their formula whenever they feel like it. They are FIFA after all. If it suited them, they'd use their (comical) rankings system. Thinking more about this I think that a seed is even more unlikely for one reason: South Africa. The hosts automatically get a top seed. Brazil + Argentina = 2 gobbled up #1s.

The other 5 will go to European teams. This will make FIFAs draw logistics easier as the remaining 8 Euro teams will simply get their own pot and all be put into separate groups (thus ensuring no group has more than 2 Euros).

The balance of teams would be, if you go by the premise that CONCACAF gets 3 spots (losing the SA playoff), Africa has 5 remaining (excluding South Africa), South America has 3 remaining, and Asia has 5 remaining (or 4+New Zealand, it would function the same way).

The last two pots would basically be one of the confeds with 5 teams left and one of the confeds with 3 teams left. I'm thinking they'd actually lump us with Afirca in a pot (and FIFA would have a provision that the first CONCACAF team drawn must go into South Africa's group) and lump Asia with the balance of South American teams (with provisions that, say, the first 2 Asian teams have to get drawn in with Brazil and Argentina).

What would throw a bug into this mix, and oddly enough could give us the best chance of getting a seed (trust me FIFA does what it wants - it makes the 'rules' to suit what it wants) is if CONCACAF gets a 4th-team and makes an inconvenient number for the scheme outlined above. Obviously the US would need the results in the internationals to back up such a claim (pretty much all that was outlined above) but that notwithstanding there's simply no way there'd be a 2nd African seed or an Asian seed, and I think it's doubtful there'd be a 3rd seed. They could do the buckets completely different or they could simply do a "Special Pot" for the worst ranked European team again such as they did with Serbia and Montenegro in '06 (from Wiki: A special pot contained Serbia and Montenegro: this was done to ensure that no group contained three European teams. In the special pot, Serbia and Montenegro was drawn first, then their group was drawn from the three seeded non-European nations, Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico.)

Ah but assuming there's 5 Euro seeds who will they be? My guess would be Italy, Spain, England, Netherlands, Germany (France would be the odd team out)

One of my favorite things about the World Cup is all these convoluted sort of things.

-QG

 
I'll admit I'm a bit shaky on the "seeding" system, but if it's based on the last two World Cups and other internationals, wouldn't South Korea have a decent shot at being the last seeded team (if there's the 7 guarantees like you think)?

4th place in the 2002 Cup, didn't make it out of the group in '06 but finished with 4 points, 3 more than the US did. They just manhandled Asian qualifying, and always have good results in their Asian/East Asian Cups.

I'm not saying they're a top 8 team in the world, but I guess I don't really get how the seeding works.

 
guru_007 said:
And, I don't get the love for Davies. A few strong minutes, and all of the sudden he is getting support for a starting 11 spot for sure? This is the type of over exuberance going on, imho. Bradley sees these guys play every day for months, years and knows what they are capable of doing. It's difficult to throw out a starting lineup that works, some coaches can do this successfully for long stretches at a time (usually moreso on a club level than national level) and some can't. To me, Davies strong start was overshadowed by his particularly weak finish. He looked lost, and imo, should have been subbed out. :shrug:
I think Davies was a key part of both wins and deserves more PT although maybe not as a regular starter. Most players, even the top players in the world, have highs and lows in a single game. Davies brought some highs that guys like DMB were not bringing at all. He was part of a starting lineup that worked. He did start to drift away towards the finish and was subbed out by Bradley. But so were Altidore and Dempsey who both looked gassed as well.
 
The US/Spain game made the front page of the sports section in the Oakland Tribune. No mention on the front page. The article was at the bottom left of the page though, so not such great placement. It was also a reprint of an LA Times story.

 
awesome game...

i'm basically a soccer newb, but have been reading this thread so i knew that we sucked but wanted to watch the game anyway...

very cool to see the US win there...reminds me of the 80 olympic hockey team

 
I was the one who had to mark Charlie Davies in a Region 1 regional game. Not a fun task, but he didn't score. Also, played against Marvel Wynne (he's from Cali and on the US roster) and he scored a ridiculous goal against us.

 
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Ah but assuming there's 5 Euro seeds who will they be? My guess would be Italy, Spain, England, Netherlands, Germany (France would be the odd team out)
As I was looking for information on how they seeded yesterday, I noticed some British articles saying England pretty much killed their chance at a seed by not qualifying for Euro. That makes sense. Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Germany are all givens I think as well as RSA, Brazil and Argentina. This actually gives us hope though that there isn't an obvious 8th seed. Our ranking history isn't going to do us any favors but its possible the results this week could vault us into the top 10 (whether warranted or not). ST - Korea sounds like it would make sense but no way they give a seed to a team ranked 46 in the world. They have used the ranking system the last few times out. Here is their ranking history over the last few years.

 
Ah but assuming there's 5 Euro seeds who will they be? My guess would be Italy, Spain, England, Netherlands, Germany (France would be the odd team out)
As I was looking for information on how they seeded yesterday, I noticed some British articles saying England pretty much killed their chance at a seed by not qualifying for Euro. That makes sense. Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Germany are all givens I think as well as RSA, Brazil and Argentina. This actually gives us hope though that there isn't an obvious 8th seed. Our ranking history isn't going to do us any favors but its possible the results this week could vault us into the top 10 (whether warranted or not). ST - Korea sounds like it would make sense but no way they give a seed to a team ranked 46 in the world. They have used the ranking system the last few times out. Here is their ranking history over the last few years.
Yeah, like I said, they're not a top 10 team in the world at all. I don't really know how the seedings work.
 
andy_b said:
guru_007 said:
I will say it's nice to reach a final, but it is only the Confederation cup. Sure, we get to play some world class talent, but as witnessed in the first two games, let's not go overboard here with the one win.
I have been struggling with how happy I should feel based on this tournament. Last night I settled upon "very happy" for the following 2 reasons1) I believe all the teams are playing their best players and are playing as hard as they would in a World Cup. Spain's energy is chasing the game yesterday was fantastic. This is the furthest thing from a friendly IMO.2) Unlike most people in the media and the fan base, I actually thought the US played well against the Italians. Too many people are looking at the score line and assuming the US sucked when in reality there were obvious extenuating circumstances.
I am extremely happy about doing well in this tournament. Every team in the world had a chance at it. Every team in it is playing their best healthy players. We won our region to get in, and are now looking at at least second place. Just awesome as far as I am concerned.
 
I was the one who had to mark Charlie Davies in a Region 1 regional game. Not a fun task, but he didn't score. Also, played against Marvel Wynne (he's from Cali and on the US roster) and he scored a ridiculous goal against us.
Just goes to show that high level soccer (or any other elite level athletics) are on another level. Wynne has looked terrible for the USMNT, and appears to have little actual soccer skill. That's not saying anything against you or your team MP, but rather how a guy can look like the cream of the crop on one level, but then totally suck donkey balls on the next.I'm sure many of us have stories about playing against guys like this. I got run over in a HS football game my freshman year by Justin Fargas, who has really disappointed in the NFL. I also got burned around the corner by another RB that played in the NFL (Sultan McCullough) for about a millisecond.Then again, I played volleyball a few times against the current beach VB gold medalist Phil Dalhausser in real competition. He straight up dominated, but it sure didn't look like he was Olympic gold medal caliber at the time. These things are strange.
 
Yeah, like I said, they're not a top 10 team in the world at all. I don't really know how the seedings work.
previously there was some formula that took into account your last 3 WC's (most recent being weighed higher than earlier ones) and your current FIFA ranking, and then the normal FIFA fudge factor so that they can really fix the seeds how they see fit.
 
are these guys paid to play on the national team...?
Possibly some nominal fee, but nothing like what they make in salary playing professionally. This is similar to other international competitions that use professional players (Olympic basketball, World baseball Classic, etc.)Why do you ask?
 
are these guys paid to play on the national team...?
There is compensation tied to wins, qualifying for the World Cup, points garnered at World Cup etc. As Z mentioned though, this is just marginal income for many players compared to their normal salaries unless you are like a young MLS player on their first contract type thing. However playing well in international competition is a time honored way to get to make more money at the club level as your exposure explodes.The players do have a union and an agent who handles this type of contract stuff with US Soccer.
 
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I really do wonder if any of the US players are gonna get some more looks from european teams. In particular Gooch, Davies, Spector, and LD. I really do think that LD should move on to La Liga because I think the game suits him there best. The Spanish press is giving him a lot of credit for his technical skill and motor.

 

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