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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
- Start date
prefontaine
Footballguy
Penal! Penal! Penal!
ffldrew
Footballguy
Blanco nails it
Native
Footballguy
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
There should be just a little intensity for that match. The soccer fan in me hopes Argentina cans Dieguito and makes it to the World Cup, but the Barça fan in me wouldn't mind Messi having the summer off.
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If the result holds, this virtually guarantees Mexico the number 1 seed in concacaf - I don't see the US getting 6 points in the next two matches - while Mexico gets T&T on the road and El Salvador at home.
prefontaine
Footballguy
ffldrew
Footballguy
El Salvador up 1-0 now
ffldrew
Footballguy
HE'S ALIVE!!!!!
prefontaine
Footballguy
There are no seeds for CONCACAF
bentley
Footballguy
To repeat a discussion from earlier on the page, top three is all that really matters. Especially for the US. Even with a group win, we don't have the pedigree to get a top 8 seed at World Cup.
Really an inconsequential result.It will still come down to US v. Costa Rica in the final match - loser finishes 4th(I do not expect a win at Honduras)
ffldrew
Footballguy
He's Dead again!!
Native
Footballguy
It makes all the difference. Now it means all the US needs is a tie vs CR and we are in. No longer need a victory to guarantee qualification.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
El Salvador =
andy_b
Footballguy
wrong. The result was huge for the US. Now they only need to draw with CR to move on and that assumes CR wins and the US loses the next game. If CR only draws their next game, the US will be able to lose the last game by 4 and still qualify.
Meh - I do not think the US will play well if they are playing not to lose - and Costa Rica is playing to win. I expect 3 points to be awarded in that game.
Native
Footballguy
Thats aMeh - I do not think the US will play well if they are playing not to lose - and Costa Rica is playing to win. I expect 3 points to be awarded in that game.
angle but ok.Good results all around for the US.
prefontaine
Footballguy
T&T game thoughts....
Rather uninspired effort this game against a clearly overmatched T&T squad. Yes they have talent but not through the midfield and we should have created a lot more chances. Defensively we looked much better with Gooch in. We just clearly have better positioning.
I'm starting to realize the reason that Bob plays Mike in a holding role, even though it is not his club role, is that no one else is very good at it. Clark does a lot of things nicely. He has speed, he tackles well, and he seems to work pretty hard. But, he is simply horrible offensively off the ball and gets too nervous on it to hold. By placing him in front of the defense as the outlet man, we basically end up playing long ball. He was horrid showing and he didn't seem to understand how to move to space to give options. They weren't even pressing that hard.
In the second half, right away, MB went back to do this. This limits us in the offensive third because Clark is not very creative in his passes and is not much of a scoring threat (though a great strike tonight). But suddenly our possession soared as we no longer had to dump it down the field. MB is studly in his workrate off the ball and really understands how to move to space and is not too shabby on the ball.
Players:
Howard - solid as usual. He really didn't have many chances but he made them all look easy other than the great chip but I'm not sure what he is to do about that. It was just very creative.
Bornstein - wasn't horrid. He didn't get forward at all and he is totally innocuous on the ball. Oh, and he's not a very good one on one defender. But besides that, nice game. And you have to give him points for not clearing it into our box right to one of their players (what can I say, I grade on a severe curve)
Boca - I honestly didn't notice him much which is a good thing. He didn't make any great plays but he didn't flub any really either.
Gooch - I've always thought he was good but I think we miss him as much if not more than any player we have when he can't play
Spector - Better game. He didn't hit the class crosses but he also was on his man pretty much the whole way with zero midfield support
Bradley - Bad first half...much like his last few games but a much better second. He has a knack for starting quick attacks and he is better on the ball than I remember.
Clark - I just don't see a starting spot for him. Again, he does some things well but is not as well round of a player as Benny is
Dempsey - what on earth was that? There were points when I was watching just him and I honestly don't think if he was trying to loaf he could have looked worse. I hope it comes out that he has swine flu or something because that was pathetic. No offense. No defense. Simply inexcusable
Donovan - decent game. I loved some of his runs but really felt like he wasn't as dangerous as he normally is. Part of that was our lack of possession and his midfield mates and Bornstein providing nothing to work with. Some pretty terrible set pieces though.
Davies - solid first half but he has some real weaknesses that hopefully he is working on. He doesn't see the runs well and is not as dangerous as he could be in traffic. But his own runs are things of beauty as he has a burst that is always there.
Jozy - Very solid game. He was even coming back on defense a few times. He still doesn't have great touch on his passes but his thought process is there. He made a few into space that shows he gets it...now if he can just begin to weight those passes better. Obviously ran out of gas early on in the second. How can a 19yo be in such bad shape?
Benninho - awe-some. I would say he was the best player on the pitch while he played.
Holden - Very good energy. I really thought he should have come on sooner. What a great cross to LD too. When a guy gets 15 minutes a game and somehow is able to put at least one ridiculously dangerous cross in each game, you have to wonder what he could do in 90.
Ching - Yuck. I know why he was brought on but he is so slow and it is so noticeable. He actually got a few fouls and slowed up the game but I don't like seeing him in there. The game had opened up and he was not capable of keeping up.
Rather uninspired effort this game against a clearly overmatched T&T squad. Yes they have talent but not through the midfield and we should have created a lot more chances. Defensively we looked much better with Gooch in. We just clearly have better positioning.
I'm starting to realize the reason that Bob plays Mike in a holding role, even though it is not his club role, is that no one else is very good at it. Clark does a lot of things nicely. He has speed, he tackles well, and he seems to work pretty hard. But, he is simply horrible offensively off the ball and gets too nervous on it to hold. By placing him in front of the defense as the outlet man, we basically end up playing long ball. He was horrid showing and he didn't seem to understand how to move to space to give options. They weren't even pressing that hard.
In the second half, right away, MB went back to do this. This limits us in the offensive third because Clark is not very creative in his passes and is not much of a scoring threat (though a great strike tonight). But suddenly our possession soared as we no longer had to dump it down the field. MB is studly in his workrate off the ball and really understands how to move to space and is not too shabby on the ball.
Players:
Howard - solid as usual. He really didn't have many chances but he made them all look easy other than the great chip but I'm not sure what he is to do about that. It was just very creative.
Bornstein - wasn't horrid. He didn't get forward at all and he is totally innocuous on the ball. Oh, and he's not a very good one on one defender. But besides that, nice game. And you have to give him points for not clearing it into our box right to one of their players (what can I say, I grade on a severe curve)
Boca - I honestly didn't notice him much which is a good thing. He didn't make any great plays but he didn't flub any really either.
Gooch - I've always thought he was good but I think we miss him as much if not more than any player we have when he can't play
Spector - Better game. He didn't hit the class crosses but he also was on his man pretty much the whole way with zero midfield support
Bradley - Bad first half...much like his last few games but a much better second. He has a knack for starting quick attacks and he is better on the ball than I remember.
Clark - I just don't see a starting spot for him. Again, he does some things well but is not as well round of a player as Benny is
Dempsey - what on earth was that? There were points when I was watching just him and I honestly don't think if he was trying to loaf he could have looked worse. I hope it comes out that he has swine flu or something because that was pathetic. No offense. No defense. Simply inexcusable
Donovan - decent game. I loved some of his runs but really felt like he wasn't as dangerous as he normally is. Part of that was our lack of possession and his midfield mates and Bornstein providing nothing to work with. Some pretty terrible set pieces though.
Davies - solid first half but he has some real weaknesses that hopefully he is working on. He doesn't see the runs well and is not as dangerous as he could be in traffic. But his own runs are things of beauty as he has a burst that is always there.
Jozy - Very solid game. He was even coming back on defense a few times. He still doesn't have great touch on his passes but his thought process is there. He made a few into space that shows he gets it...now if he can just begin to weight those passes better. Obviously ran out of gas early on in the second. How can a 19yo be in such bad shape?
Benninho - awe-some. I would say he was the best player on the pitch while he played.
Holden - Very good energy. I really thought he should have come on sooner. What a great cross to LD too. When a guy gets 15 minutes a game and somehow is able to put at least one ridiculously dangerous cross in each game, you have to wonder what he could do in 90.
Ching - Yuck. I know why he was brought on but he is so slow and it is so noticeable. He actually got a few fouls and slowed up the game but I don't like seeing him in there. The game had opened up and he was not capable of keeping up.
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andy_b
Footballguy
huh? So you are saying you would rather CR have the advantage of qualifying ahead of us with a draw? That makes no sense.Believe me, this is huge. Just imagine how much easier it will be if the US is up 1-0. They will effectively be up by two goals.Meh - I do not think the US will play well if they are playing not to lose - and Costa Rica is playing to win. I expect 3 points to be awarded in that game.It makes all the difference. Now it means all the US needs is a tie vs CR and we are in. No longer need a victory to guarantee qualification.
andy_b
Footballguy
Unless my memory sucks, CR usually has the smallest support of any of the central American countries in the US.That being said, I am sure they will drive in from all over the country, while us US fans will simply sit back and watch it on TV. Unless every one of us is in the stadium, none of us can complain about the make up of the crowd which could be 50-50.
Here is how I see it playing out:
Next Game
Mexico d. El Salvador (in Mexico)
Costa Rica d. T&T (in Costa Rica)
US ties Honduras (in Honduras) - I am being generous - but the result really does not matter - a win would obviously clinch a spot for the US - and this might actually be the better opportunity to get a win.
Mexico 18
US 17
Costa Rica 15
Honduras 14
Final game
Mexico d. T&T
Honduras d. El Salvador
US v. Costa Rica
Assuming that plays out the table would look like this:
Mexico 21
Honduras 17
US 17
Costa Rica 15
If Costa Rica wins - US finishes 4th on goal differential
IF US ties or wins US moves on and Costa Rica move to the play-off
I do not expect the US to play well under pressure - and if they are playing not to lose - there will be too much pressure on the defense to withstand a CR team with nothing to lose.
So, yes I understand the value of being able to play for the draw in the final game - I just don't think it plays out that way.
Next Game
Mexico d. El Salvador (in Mexico)
Costa Rica d. T&T (in Costa Rica)
US ties Honduras (in Honduras) - I am being generous - but the result really does not matter - a win would obviously clinch a spot for the US - and this might actually be the better opportunity to get a win.
Mexico 18
US 17
Costa Rica 15
Honduras 14
Final game
Mexico d. T&T
Honduras d. El Salvador
US v. Costa Rica
Assuming that plays out the table would look like this:
Mexico 21
Honduras 17
US 17
Costa Rica 15
If Costa Rica wins - US finishes 4th on goal differential
IF US ties or wins US moves on and Costa Rica move to the play-off
I do not expect the US to play well under pressure - and if they are playing not to lose - there will be too much pressure on the defense to withstand a CR team with nothing to lose.
So, yes I understand the value of being able to play for the draw in the final game - I just don't think it plays out that way.
prefontaine
Footballguy
No we don't. Right now, US is +5 on GD and CR is -4. If we tie Honduras, we are through.Just realized we tie with Honduras, not CR. So you are correct.
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andy_b
Footballguy
I don't think you understand what we are saying. None of us are saying they will be play for a draw. But the simple mathematical fact is that they are up a goal before they even start.I still think you are a bit nuts to ignore the huge result in El Salvador tonight
We would be tied with Honduras in that scenario - and lose on goal differential
andy_b
Footballguy
Are you sure about that? I don't see how we are through if we tie Honduras. If CR wins we would be up by only 2 on them and 3 on Honduras.If we then lose to CR, both CR and Honduras could pass us.
I have seen the US enough to know they will play for the draw - more out of fear of losing. They will pack it in and play a counter attack style game - similar to what they play against more talented opponents.I am cynical by nature - but I see the US's best chance to avoid the playoff as winning in Honduras. If they NEED a result against Costa Rica, I think they will find a way to let it slip away. I hope I am wrong - I will root like crazy for them, but I have a sinking feeling they will be playing a home and home against a SA team.
andy_b
Footballguy
I have seen every US game that has been on TV since 1990 and have attended a ton more that were not.I honestly can not remember a single home game against a Concacaf side that they played for a draw and packed it in even against Mexico.They do take that posture away from home though.
andy_b
Footballguy
Being cynical is fine. God knows as US soccer fans its almost inbred in us.But lets face it, there is no logic in assuming that it will be easier to win on the road against one of the best teams rather than drawing at home to a team that is struggling severely right now.
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Its not that far fetched - the difference between a loss or a draw at Honduras is negligible - the US would still need a result against CR to avoid the play-off. So, I think they play more relaxed, and more importantly more aggressive - knowing that a win clinches a berth, and a loss does not kill you. When the US plays more aggressively, I think they play better. I really would like to see the two new players eligible for those matches to see if they spark a new energy level for this team. (Decent chance Bradley would not play them even if they both were eligible).
prefontaine
Footballguy
I just realized your entire premise is built on this result as a given. I think that is highly questionable and think Honduras will be lucky to get a point there. ES home games:
1-0 vs CR
2-1 vs Mexico
2-2 vs T&T
2-2 vs USA
I think assuming Honduras walks out of their with 3 points is pretty pessimistic. Because of this, if we draw at Honduras, we will probably still advance regardless of the CR result.
scoobygang
Footballguy
I agree with most of this, but I'm surprised you didn't notice Bocanegra. Because he was pretty awful in the first half. He's the guy who got muscled off the throw in to open up the chance that hit the crossbar. He's the guy who tried an ill advised headed back pass on the bouncing corner that led to a lunging clearance attempt that might have resulted in a PK. He also probably got bailed out at least once in the second half when he mistimed an offside trap. I agree that Gooch was excellent. Probably our best player on the night. I think both Spector and Bornstein deserve a bit of credit for hanging in against Carlos Edwards. Edwards did lots of menacing looking running with the ball without really creating any bona fide chances. Glad I'm not the only one who thought Clark was horrible before the goal. I don't even care about the lack of skill so much as I thought he was anonymous. He wasn't even breaking up play in the first half. The one positive in a pretty drab game for the US, was that I thought they did a decent job of taking the air out of the ball after scoring the goal.
andy_b
Footballguy
This is an interesting point, but I think you are probably right because Bradley is likely too conservative to make any changes so late.Both of those players will get a plenty of chances should we qualify.
bentley
Footballguy
Castillo's already eligible, but I think you guys are probably right.
andy_b
Footballguy
By the way, is Jones already set or does he have to still jump through some FIFA hurdles?
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prefontaine
Footballguy
Yeah, those are good points. I spend a lot of time watching the guys without the ball and what they are doing. That can be harder when we get a non-HD feed like tonight. Boca generally positions himself well and I never got that wtf is he doing over there thought of him*. But you are correct in everything you said. In fact, I had forgotten the take down he did on the corner which should have been a pk. *Btw, to that end, I keep seeing Bornstein look back to Gooch or Boca. I'm not sure if they are yelling at him or what but he keeps turning his head away from the ball. It's inexplicable and to me it shows he has no sense of where he is supposed to be. I do a lot of barking when I play but I'm not sure I've ever had someone at any level in the middle of play turn around and look at me while the ball is in their area. It's crazy weird and is just another reason I dislike him.
prefontaine
Footballguy
AFAIK he has not been cleared.
Moe.
Footballguy
It would be amazing to add a top of the line holding/defensive midfielder to our team. If Bradley doesn't take advantage of Jones asap I'll be shocked. I don't think he'll ever bench his son but Jones and Feilhaber playing together as the two central midfielders kind of gives me a boner. I dare say we'd be pretty dangerous with Jones/Castillo added to the team, pretty much takes care of our two weakest positions at this point.
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