***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (5 Viewers)

[Good Posting Judge]

who knows what the US sports landscape will look like in the future? 50 years ago it was baseball, boxing, and horse racing. Until 1990, the US hadn't made the World Cup in 40 years....and so on.

Robot BASEketball.

 

[Eephus]

who knows what the US sports landscape will look like in the future? 50 years ago it was baseball, boxing, and horse racing. Until 1990, the US hadn't made the World Cup in 40 years....and so on.

Robot BASEketball.

Rollerball

 

[Good Posting Judge]

who knows what the US sports landscape will look like in the future? 50 years ago it was baseball, boxing, and horse racing. Until 1990, the US hadn't made the World Cup in 40 years....and so on.

Robot BASEketball.

Rollerball

Quidditch. (sp?)

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Thiago extended his contract 2 years and has a buyout of 90 million so he's not going anywhere. That should be the end of the Cesc back to Barca rumors.

With Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets starting and Keita, Mascherano, and Thiago as backups there is no room for Cesc.

Let's hope so. They need to address depth at the back much more than in the midfield.

 

[Steve Tasker]

who knows what the US sports landscape will look like in the future? 50 years ago it was baseball, boxing, and horse racing. Until 1990, the US hadn't made the World Cup in 40 years....and so on.

Robot BASEketball.

Rollerball

Quidditch. (sp?)

Chess boxing

 

[Eephus]

What gets me irritated is the fact that you jump into full fledged homerism after following club football more closely for a year, maybe two. Then, not only are you a homer for your chosen team, you chose the best performing team over the last 5 years.

Never understood why people get irritated about who other people liked WTF cares. If you're a doosh, you're a doosh, whether you back Barcelona, Real Madrid or Getafe. If you're a fan and happen to pick a team rich with history out of the blue and root hard for them, Bentley, well, then that's just fine and dandy.

The US youth soccer system will never be fixed IMO.

could have stopped just there. This thread has argued ad naseum in regard to the US youth and USMNT, etc...so much so, that a few posters had to be put on ignore because that's all they ever talk about. The reason the US national team will never be top of the world in my lifetime has nothing to do with youth soccer. Nothing to do with sending our best players overseas to play with the best. nothing to do with Bob Bradley. It has EVERYTHING to do with soccer is an also ran amonst sports in this countries. All these articles and suggestions on how to improve us soccer is an exercise in futility by a bunch of people who like to hear themselves ramble. The US national sport will never be soccer. Kids don't embrace, adults don't embrace it, the public by and large doesn't embrace it. Everyone, says it's too boring to watch, or boring to play, etc... There is no deep rooted history, it doesn't dominate sports news, there isn't one station devoted entirely to just us soccer, when growing up, kids want to win the super bowl, win the world series, win the nba championship, win the stanley cup, hell win the daytona 500. only SOCCER players want to win the world cup, and that is such a minute portion of the us population it's never going to happen.I like soccer a lot. I enjoy watching the game. I'll root for the USMNT, I'll attend MLS games, but all the while, I know that the best soccer in the world is not being played anywhere in this country, and never will be. rant over/

Unfortunately the most elite athletes this country has to offer are not on the USMNT team and probably never will be for a long time. Whether or not those superior athletes would be superior soccer players is another question, but I would argue they almost certainly would be if the passion and drive to win was equal to baseball/football/basketball.

I don't totally buy the elite athlete argument. While top flight soccer players are all great athletes, I don't think superior athleticism is the key factor that separates the good from the great from the uber elite. It's more important to develop skills and instincts from an early age than it is to cherry pick athletic freaks.

 

[TLEF316]

We can become a better team without getting the elite athlete (Chris Johnson, Derek Rose, ect)

But like with other sports (basketball being the most obvious example) our greatest advantage is having the elite athlete. It's not our coaching or youth development system (which lags behind our top competitors in basketball). Its the fact that our sports playing population is faster and stronger than the teams we play.

I won't get into the genetic or sociological reasons why this is the case (although its pretty obvious) but it is a big factor.

Don't get me wrong. Soccer isn't lacrosse. There is a massive learning curve and its not like you can just drop an athletic 15 year old on the pitch and say go get em. Touch and creativity don't just happen because you can run fast.

But if basketball and football suddenly disappeared and nothing else changed, our nation would make a huge leap up the soccer ladder at a much quicker pace.

 

[guru_007]

I was going to post some long-winded posts about how the culture of youth soccer needs to be changed, until I read this...

go for it, I enjoy your posts, and you rarely go off the deep end.......plus, you sometimes post some good coaching/playing tips and with three small kids I like reading those.And goodpostingjudge, I saw your post above, I want to respond to that tomorrow

 

[scoobygang]

I don't totally buy the elite athlete argument. While top flight soccer players are all great athletes, I don't think superior athleticism is the key factor that separates the good from the great from the uber elite. It's more important to develop skills and instincts from an early age than it is to cherry pick athletic freaks.

Yeah, I don't buy it at all. Mexico didn't kick our tail because the Mexican soccer team has a bunch of Usain Bolt/Le Bron James/Adrian Peterson athletes. The athletes in the U.S. who are best suited to playing soccer tend to play soccer. They gravitate to the sport that fits their gifts. What's the last time you thought to yourself, well the U.S. is clearly slower, weaker, and smaller than the these guys? If we needed Le Bron James to pick soccer to have an elite soccer team, then elite soccer teams would have guys who look like LeBron James. They don't.

 

[Sebowski]

I don't totally buy the elite athlete argument. While top flight soccer players are all great athletes, I don't think superior athleticism is the key factor that separates the good from the great from the uber elite. It's more important to develop skills and instincts from an early age than it is to cherry pick athletic freaks.

Yeah, I don't buy it at all. Mexico didn't kick our tail because the Mexican soccer team has a bunch of Usain Bolt/Le Bron James/Adrian Peterson athletes. The athletes in the U.S. who are best suited to playing soccer tend to play soccer. They gravitate to the sport that fits their gifts. What's the last time you thought to yourself, well the U.S. is clearly slower, weaker, and smaller than the these guys? If we needed Le Bron James to pick soccer to have an elite soccer team, then elite soccer teams would have guys who look like LeBron James. They don't.

I don't totally buy it either, but the biggest flaw is calling for the Kobes, Adrian Petersons and LeBron James types. US Soccer would benefit more from the NFL DBs (or ones that don't make the NFL), and Pat Whites, Eric Crouch's, Avery Johnsons of our sports world.... The kids have to have a passion for it though. That's how it has to start. But like guru said, Eric Crouch grew up dreaming of winning the Super Bowl, not the World Cup.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If we're losing our best athletes to other sports, it then follows that the best soccer players could've excelled in other sports had they been corralled that way at a young age. Some of them probably could, but others -- and I'd even say many -- do not. As was mentioned above, I think there are some athletes who are uniquely gifted at soccer, and not so much at other sports. And certainly there are a lot of guys who can kind of play everything, but America should have enough of the former, along with the resources of being a First World country, to excel globally.

 

[The Z Machine]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

 

[PIK95]

What gets me irritated is the fact that you jump into full fledged homerism after following club football more closely for a year, maybe two. Then, not only are you a homer for your chosen team, you chose the best performing team over the last 5 years.

Never understood why people get irritated about who other people liked WTF cares. If you're a doosh, you're a doosh, whether you back Barcelona, Real Madrid or Getafe. If you're a fan and happen to pick a team rich with history out of the blue and root hard for them, Bentley, well, then that's just fine and dandy.

The US youth soccer system will never be fixed IMO.

could have stopped just there. This thread has argued ad naseum in regard to the US youth and USMNT, etc...so much so, that a few posters had to be put on ignore because that's all they ever talk about. The reason the US national team will never be top of the world in my lifetime has nothing to do with youth soccer. Nothing to do with sending our best players overseas to play with the best. nothing to do with Bob Bradley. It has EVERYTHING to do with soccer is an also ran amonst sports in this countries. All these articles and suggestions on how to improve us soccer is an exercise in futility by a bunch of people who like to hear themselves ramble. The US national sport will never be soccer. Kids don't embrace, adults don't embrace it, the public by and large doesn't embrace it. Everyone, says it's too boring to watch, or boring to play, etc... There is no deep rooted history, it doesn't dominate sports news, there isn't one station devoted entirely to just us soccer, when growing up, kids want to win the super bowl, win the world series, win the nba championship, win the stanley cup, hell win the daytona 500. only SOCCER players want to win the world cup, and that is such a minute portion of the us population it's never going to happen.I like soccer a lot. I enjoy watching the game. I'll root for the USMNT, I'll attend MLS games, but all the while, I know that the best soccer in the world is not being played anywhere in this country, and never will be. rant over/

But we're also a nation of 300m, including plenty of immigrants from soccer-rich countries. I have a hard time believing that soccer not being the sole focus of America's sports consciousness automatically DQ's the US from being a great soccer nation. Not many people care about hockey, including large swaths of the nation, and we have the 2nd best hockey team in the world.Even if only 5% of the USA really cares about soccer, and I suspect the number is much higher than that, that is still about equal to the population of the Netherlands. And somewhere I remember seeing that America has the most soccer fans in the world. So what you're saying really isn't true. I think the aforementioned article on the youth system, etc. has a lot more to do with the USA's shortcomings.

Are you sure about that?

The difference is hockey is a niche sport pretty much everywhere in the world except Canada. The 5% of the US who care about hockey is still greater than the 10% who care in Finland or the 0% who care in Argentina or kids in Africa who've never seen ice. Soccer is the dominant sport almost everywhere else but here.I'm not convinced the US has reached a plateau. There have been tremendous gains since 1990. The game is much more in the national consciousness than it was a generation ago. It's not realistic to expect the development curve of the past 20 years to continue at the same rate. We've reached a point where the competition is tougher--beating Trinidad is expected but the next step up is crowded with second tier European and South American nations.

There will be a great American player that will help move the game forward. But players like that are born as much as made. If lucky, the US will produce a couple of them within the same WC cycle and surround them with enough support and organization and luck to make a deep run. It's tough when the only measuring stick most people care about comes out once every two or four years, but they're same rules the rest of world plays by.

My son Luke is six so it's gonna be a little while. He told me last night that he won't play for Liverpool btw, after I wouldn't give him more water balloons. I guess he may be a little hot headed. BTW, he also asked me if he could play for a different national team than the US so we may be moving in a couple of years. He wants Germany but I'm not sure there is much English spoken there. Plus I'm not sure what the wife will say.

 

[PIK95]

I was going to post some long-winded posts about how the culture of youth soccer needs to be changed, until I read this...

could have stopped just there. This thread has argued ad naseum in regard to the US youth and USMNT, etc...so much so, that a few posters had to be put on ignore because that's all they ever talk about

He stopped me in my tracks.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

What gets me irritated is the fact that you jump into full fledged homerism after following club football more closely for a year, maybe two. Then, not only are you a homer for your chosen team, you chose the best performing team over the last 5 years.

Never understood why people get irritated about who other people liked WTF cares. If you're a doosh, you're a doosh, whether you back Barcelona, Real Madrid or Getafe. If you're a fan and happen to pick a team rich with history out of the blue and root hard for them, Bentley, well, then that's just fine and dandy.

The US youth soccer system will never be fixed IMO.

could have stopped just there. This thread has argued ad naseum in regard to the US youth and USMNT, etc...so much so, that a few posters had to be put on ignore because that's all they ever talk about. The reason the US national team will never be top of the world in my lifetime has nothing to do with youth soccer. Nothing to do with sending our best players overseas to play with the best. nothing to do with Bob Bradley. It has EVERYTHING to do with soccer is an also ran amonst sports in this countries. All these articles and suggestions on how to improve us soccer is an exercise in futility by a bunch of people who like to hear themselves ramble. The US national sport will never be soccer. Kids don't embrace, adults don't embrace it, the public by and large doesn't embrace it. Everyone, says it's too boring to watch, or boring to play, etc... There is no deep rooted history, it doesn't dominate sports news, there isn't one station devoted entirely to just us soccer, when growing up, kids want to win the super bowl, win the world series, win the nba championship, win the stanley cup, hell win the daytona 500. only SOCCER players want to win the world cup, and that is such a minute portion of the us population it's never going to happen.I like soccer a lot. I enjoy watching the game. I'll root for the USMNT, I'll attend MLS games, but all the while, I know that the best soccer in the world is not being played anywhere in this country, and never will be. rant over/

But we're also a nation of 300m, including plenty of immigrants from soccer-rich countries. I have a hard time believing that soccer not being the sole focus of America's sports consciousness automatically DQ's the US from being a great soccer nation. Not many people care about hockey, including large swaths of the nation, and we have the 2nd best hockey team in the world.Even if only 5% of the USA really cares about soccer, and I suspect the number is much higher than that, that is still about equal to the population of the Netherlands. And somewhere I remember seeing that America has the most soccer fans in the world. So what you're saying really isn't true. I think the aforementioned article on the youth system, etc. has a lot more to do with the USA's shortcomings.

Are you sure about that?

The difference is hockey is a niche sport pretty much everywhere in the world except Canada. The 5% of the US who care about hockey is still greater than the 10% who care in Finland or the 0% who care in Argentina or kids in Africa who've never seen ice. Soccer is the dominant sport almost everywhere else but here.I'm not convinced the US has reached a plateau. There have been tremendous gains since 1990. The game is much more in the national consciousness than it was a generation ago. It's not realistic to expect the development curve of the past 20 years to continue at the same rate. We've reached a point where the competition is tougher--beating Trinidad is expected but the next step up is crowded with second tier European and South American nations.

There will be a great American player that will help move the game forward. But players like that are born as much as made. If lucky, the US will produce a couple of them within the same WC cycle and surround them with enough support and organization and luck to make a deep run. It's tough when the only measuring stick most people care about comes out once every two or four years, but they're same rules the rest of world plays by.

My son Luke is six so it's gonna be a little while. He told me last night that he won't play for Liverpool btw, after I wouldn't give him more water balloons. I guess he may be a little hot headed. BTW, he also asked me if he could play for a different national team than the US so we may be moving in a couple of years. He wants Germany but I'm not sure there is much English spoken there. Plus I'm not sure what the wife will say.

Actually, you can get by pretty well in Germany on just English. Especially in the big cities.

 

[The Gator]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

 

[Eephus]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I'm not his biggest fan but I don't see Bradley getting fired. The Panama loss notwithstanding, they performed to expectations in the Gold Cup. There aren't enough big games between now and Brazil that the US will be in a position to lose. A players revolt seems equally unlikely. There's not enough media coverage of US Soccer to orchestrate a Sack Bob movement either.

 

[The Gator]

Just a quick dip into the youth angle. I've been on the youth baseball board for three years. We've grown to 700ish kids in our league while soccer regularly brings in 1000-1200. Soccer starts with a bigger talent pool. At least around here, baseball players have league play, travel ball and fall ball(8-9 months of baseball) staring at age 8. Soccer players have league and maybe a travel team for another two months(4 total) if you're U12.

If a child has the passion for both soccer and baseball, he'll chose baseball every time because he can play it more.

 

[The Gator]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I'm not his biggest fan but I don't see Bradley getting fired. The Panama loss notwithstanding, they performed to expectations in the Gold Cup. There aren't enough big games between now and Brazil that the US will be in a position to lose. A players revolt seems equally unlikely. There's not enough media coverage of US Soccer to orchestrate a Sack Bob movement either.

I'll fire up the Sack Bob Bradley Facebook page now...

 

[Eephus]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I'm not his biggest fan but I don't see Bradley getting fired. The Panama loss notwithstanding, they performed to expectations in the Gold Cup. There aren't enough big games between now and Brazil that the US will be in a position to lose. A players revolt seems equally unlikely. There's not enough media coverage of US Soccer to orchestrate a Sack Bob movement either.

I'll fire up the Sack Bob Bradley Facebook page now...

Too late

 

[Mjolnirs]

I'll fire up the Sack Bob Bradley Facebook page now...

Too late

Or Save American Soccer Fire Bob Bradley

 

[Sebowski]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I see what you did there. I don't care to discuss whether Bradley should be fired or not. I think we're all on the same page there. We've all been asking for a good international coach for a while now. A coach who really wants to make a long term impact though (read; Klinsmann) will want some say in the youth program because they all know that is where it starts.

 

[The Z Machine]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I see what you did there. I don't care to discuss whether Bradley should be fired or not. I think we're all on the same page there. We've all been asking for a good international coach for a while now. A coach who really wants to make a long term impact though (read; Klinsmann) will want some say in the youth program because they all know that is where it starts.

What about the idea of basing the USMNT in Europe like most of the African and some other countries do? I think it's a great idea if 90% of your starters are based there anyway. Combine that with a well respected and seasoned international coach, and I don't think that US Soccer has to give up all their control over the youth stuff (which seems to be the sticking point wrt. Klinsmann).

 

[Sebowski]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I see what you did there. I don't care to discuss whether Bradley should be fired or not. I think we're all on the same page there. We've all been asking for a good international coach for a while now. A coach who really wants to make a long term impact though (read; Klinsmann) will want some say in the youth program because they all know that is where it starts.

What about the idea of basing the USMNT in Europe like most of the African and some other countries do? I think it's a great idea if 90% of your starters are based there anyway. Combine that with a well respected and seasoned international coach, and I don't think that US Soccer has to give up all their control over the youth stuff (which seems to be the sticking point wrt. Klinsmann).

Fine. I'll take change for the sake of change at this point. What's the worst that can happen?To give it a little more thought though I'm not sure basing camp in Europe will do that much good. What is the hard number of Americans playing in Europe? Especially the ones that will impact the future. I think the African countries that base themselves in Europe may have a leg up in that regard. We still need to develop players that European teams will want.I mean think about it, how good would Germany be if Dirk Nowitzki decided to play soccer?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I wanted more discusssion onBradley being fired than the youth soccer angle. I'm more interested in Brazil 2014 than USA 2022.

I see what you did there. I don't care to discuss whether Bradley should be fired or not. I think we're all on the same page there. We've all been asking for a good international coach for a while now. A coach who really wants to make a long term impact though (read; Klinsmann) will want some say in the youth program because they all know that is where it starts.

What about the idea of basing the USMNT in Europe like most of the African and some other countries do? I think it's a great idea if 90% of your starters are based there anyway. Combine that with a well respected and seasoned international coach, and I don't think that US Soccer has to give up all their control over the youth stuff (which seems to be the sticking point wrt. Klinsmann).

The idea of conducting USMNT camp in Europe is a minor issue in my opinion. A top level international soccer coach won't mind living in the US, especially Klinsmann. The issue with Klinsmann - and likely most other top international coaches - will always be the same. Klinsmann would challenge US Soccer and expect them to be prepared to make chances at every level of the organization. He won't accept anything less than complete and total buy-in at all levels of the organization and will want substantial control over the clubs and the youth system, as he had in Germany. His role would be primarily as a role model of success at the highest level, motivator and leader, so he would need good technical coaches around him to handle the training and tactics (like he had with Loew in 2006).

 

[El Floppo]

Some good stuff guys. When I have a second, I'll chime in on the youth/culture thing going on here- although I'll just be reiterating what I've been saying for years.

 

[El Floppo]

Thiago extended his contract 2 years and has a buyout of 90 million so he's not going anywhere. That should be the end of the Cesc back to Barca rumors.

With Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets starting and Keita, Mascherano, and Thiago as backups there is no room for Cesc.

Ok- Barca fans... the way I see the above, Cesc is competing with just Xavi and Iniesta, since the other guys play different roles in the MF than he does. So I don't see how Thiago re-upping changes anything... correct me please.

 

[guru_007]

But we're also a nation of 300m, including plenty of immigrants from soccer-rich countries. I have a hard time believing that soccer not being the sole focus of America's sports consciousness automatically DQ's the US from being a great soccer nation. Not many people care about hockey, including large swaths of the nation, and we have the 2nd best hockey team in the world.Even if only 5% of the USA really cares about soccer, and I suspect the number is much higher than that, that is still about equal to the population of the Netherlands. And somewhere I remember seeing that America has the most soccer fans in the world. So what you're saying really isn't true. I think the aforementioned article on the youth system, etc. has a lot more to do with the USA's shortcomings.

pretty much disagree with this argument altogether.We are a nation of 300M. So what? India (with strong Great Britain history) has 1B people. Sheer numbers means nothing.Mexico has 100M, and if you are claiming 5% of American's really care about soccer, that is 6M. I have to think at least 25% of Mexico cares about soccer, does that mean the extra 19 million soccer enthusiasts are going to make their national team 3x better than the US? of course it's not.America has the most soccer fans in the world? ummm, I'd like to see where that citation is from and how it is calculated, tbh. Brazil's population is 2/3's that of the US and I think there are more soccer fans there. I don't have the numbers in front of me, nor feel like looking it up, but in the Gold Cup quarter-finals, the US played in RFK, and I'd venture to say there were 50...efff it, looked it upQuarter finals at RFK (Where the US played) attendance was 45,000Quarter finals at Meadowlands (mexico played) attendance was over 82,000 and I'm not sure if that was a sell out, but that place was rockinSo, I don't feel that there is much care in this country for soccer. Also, disagree with your argument about hockey not being that popular. Not gonna go all ARud on you here, but I believe more people watched the stanley cup finals than the nba finals. And ton more people turned out for Boston's parade than the Mavs. Hockey is pretty popular in this country, constant sell outs at games, regular season tv ratings are bad, sure, but it's a long season. US national team is pretty terrific, USA, USA.As I mentioned earlier, I think it's all about the care of the nation, the want of the kids, etc... nothing is gonna change that. Kids in New Zealand dream of wearing the all-black rugby uniform. New Zealand is a tiny country, but has one of the best rugby teams around, always. Certainly not about the amount of athletes they have to choose from, and I really don't think their coaching is any better than that of say England, or Scotland. But when they get on the rugby field, this is their life's dream and they play with something different than other countries do.Sri Lanka only has 25 million people, but those kids dream of cricket stardom. That country has a very rich cricket tradition because they care about that sport, the whole nation. This year, they barely lost in the WC finals to India, a country with 40x their population. GB Sachin Tendulkar. But it's all about the care, the pride.National sport in the US is never gonna be soccer. They'll always have a decent side simply because of the money we have to train our athletes. Moving our training facilities to Europe ain't gonna do ####. Is Bob Bradley really that bad? I'd like to see Klinsmann get a shot myself, but that's simply the curiosity factor. I think bradley's been fine.My son loves soccer, and he's pretty good at it too. Sure, I'm a very biased observer, but for the past 3-4 years, each team he's been on, he's pretty much been either the best or second best player on the team. I ask him what sport he wants to play when he gets to high school and he tells me football Dude played one year of flag football, and wasn't very good because he's pretty small. Quick, sure, but tough to pass to a guy a head shorter than everyone else. I tell him he's too small to play football, pick again. He picks basketball I ask him about soccer and he says nah. wtf.that's pretty much my take. not sure if I got any of my point across, it's early, I'm hungover and about to fire someone, so I have other things on my mind.peace my soccer brethren

 

[LHUCKS]

Soccer is visibly getting better in this country...I don't see what the problem is.

 

[PIK95]

My son plays on two baseball teams and all he wants to do is play soccer, play soccer video games, and watch EPL and US fwiw. He's six.

 

[JMon348]

Thiago extended his contract 2 years and has a buyout of 90 million so he's not going anywhere. That should be the end of the Cesc back to Barca rumors.

With Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets starting and Keita, Mascherano, and Thiago as backups there is no room for Cesc.

Ok- Barca fans... the way I see the above, Cesc is competing with just Xavi and Iniesta, since the other guys play different roles in the MF than he does. So I don't see how Thiago re-upping changes anything... correct me please.

The way I see it, and I am fairly new so please correct me if I am wrong or if you have other thoughts.In defense we have Puyol, Pique, Abidal, and Alves as starters. If Abdial or Alves is hurt they plug in Adriano. If Puyol or Pique is out, Mascherano goes into their spot, he goes in for Busquets who goes back there, or they slide Abidal over and Adriano comes in.

Midfield, Mascherano in for Busquets. I think this year Thiago and Keita will split time and sub for Xavi/Iniesta. Pep usually also subs Keita in for Villa or Pedro when protecting the lead.

Cesc would throw a wrench into this. Does Thiago continue to get no playing time even after the extension? What happens to Keita? Will they move Iniesta up in place of Pedro and let Cesc start beside Xavi?

Up front Messi, Villa, and Pedro are locks with the current makeup. Affelay looks to be the main backup after Boyan leaves. If Sanchez or another forward comes how will that effect Pedro and Affelay?

In looking at all this it looks like center back should be the number one priority because of Puyol's knee/age. Everything I have read, it seems Pep is comfortable with the group. Maybe Mashcerano will be playing there more often after what he did in the CL final.

 

[The Gator]

My son plays on two baseball teams and all he wants to do is play soccer, play soccer video games, and watch EPL and US fwiw. He's six.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I'm still looking for an EPL team.

Always been a casual fan of club level soccer but have recently became obsessed with it. Barca's winning had little with me becoming a fan.

I have been a Laker fan for over 23 years.

It's just funny how people get so irritated.

You might try not being a frontrunner... just a thought.What gets me irritated is the fact that you jump into full fledged homerism after following club football more closely for a year, maybe two. Then, not only are you a homer for your chosen team, you chose the best performing team over the last 5 years.

Meh - I disagree with the premise. The casual US sports fan has limited exposure to soccer. To generate passion, I think you need to start by seeing/rooting for the great teams.If you go to other places in the world, you see NFL "fans" with Cowboys or Steelers gear - not Bengals. You see Lakers, Celtics (and now Heat) fans, but not Charlotte or Sacramento fans. Yankees and Red Sox fans, but not Kansas City fans, etc. Those fans generate interest in the sport, and has led to the development of better basketball and baseball programs world-wide.

I think you get fans passionate about soccer by following the great teams, and then transferring that passion to their local team.

Barca is not alone in having several household names on the team, but for the casual fan who picks up soccer at the World Cup, being able to see those same stars on a regular basis would help convert casual fans into more passionate fans.

 

[JMon348]

Good mini preview of Copa America on Grantland.

 

[Slapdash]

Thiago extended his contract 2 years and has a buyout of 90 million so he's not going anywhere. That should be the end of the Cesc back to Barca rumors.

With Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets starting and Keita, Mascherano, and Thiago as backups there is no room for Cesc.

Ok- Barca fans... the way I see the above, Cesc is competing with just Xavi and Iniesta, since the other guys play different roles in the MF than he does. So I don't see how Thiago re-upping changes anything... correct me please.

Keita is the primary backup for Xavi and Iniesta now with Thiago behind him(probably more of an even split this year). If Cesc comes, it will be hard to see Thiago getting the time to develop. I think the development of Thiago is too important to the club to see him languish on the bench; it is eerie how similar he looks to Xavi when conducting the midfield. I take the extention and high release as a sign that Barcelona is planning to move forward with Thiago as the hier to the midfield engine. I could still see Cesc happening if they unloaded Keita, but I don't know why they would do that. Keita has been very valuable for the club and led the team in appearances last season. I know the talent gap between Cesc and Keita is supposed to be pretty large, but the performance contrast is not enough to justify paying Arsenal's asking price IMO.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Torsten Frings moving to Toronto FC

Former German international Torsten Frings has called time on his 11-year association with SV Werder Bremen after joining Major League Soccer outfit Toronto FC.

The midfielder, 34, has signed a two-and-a-half year deal with the Canadian side, apparently bringing down the curtain on a 402-match Bundesliga career. "I had several offers from Europe, America and the Middle East," he wrote on his website. "A few Bundesliga clubs offered me a contract as well and while some were interesting and financially more profitable, the challenge of playing in North America excited me most."

After starting out at Alemannia Aachen, Frings played for FC Bayern München and Borussia Dortmund but will forever be associated with two spells at Bremen, initially from 1997 to 2002. He returned in 2005, finishing as a runner-up in the Bundesliga and the UEFA Cup before picking up a second German Cup winners' medal in 2009, a decade after his first.

That year also brought the last of Frings's 79 international caps, and he was a member of Jürgen Klinsmann's Germany team that lost to Spain in the UEFA EURO 2008 final. Klinsmann now works as a consultant at Toronto where Frings, whose Bremen contract expired at the end of last season, could make his debut as early as 21 July against FC Dallas

 

[The Z Machine]

I didn't see it anywhere in this thread, but De Gea finally signed for ManU for 29m€. Not a bad bit of business for my boys, although losing possibly the next great Spanish keeper is tough. Nonetheless, it was the right thing to do.

That's two homegrown players with strong ties to Atlético (Fernando Torres is the other one, obviously) that have jumped to the EPL for a large sum. We'll see if either ever come back to their home club later in their careers.

In other news, Juve is pretty hyped on getting el Kun. I don't think that the two sides are anywhere close to an agreement on the € amount though, as Juve wants him for 30-35m€ and Atlético wants that to be closer to 45m€.

Ujfalusi and Reyes have already gone to Galastaray in this offseason, and it's possible that both Forlán and Kun depart as well. It could be a very different Atleti team next year (which isn't so bad). Maybe they are aiming to rebuild for the season after next, I don't know.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Thiago extended his contract 2 years and has a buyout of 90 million so he's not going anywhere. That should be the end of the Cesc back to Barca rumors.

With Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets starting and Keita, Mascherano, and Thiago as backups there is no room for Cesc.

Ok- Barca fans... the way I see the above, Cesc is competing with just Xavi and Iniesta, since the other guys play different roles in the MF than he does. So I don't see how Thiago re-upping changes anything... correct me please.

Keita is the primary backup for Xavi and Iniesta now with Thiago behind him(probably more of an even split this year). If Cesc comes, it will be hard to see Thiago getting the time to develop. I think the development of Thiago is too important to the club to see him languish on the bench; it is eerie how similar he looks to Xavi when conducting the midfield. I take the extention and high release as a sign that Barcelona is planning to move forward with Thiago as the hier to the midfield engine. I could still see Cesc happening if they unloaded Keita, but I don't know why they would do that. Keita has been very valuable for the club and led the team in appearances last season. I know the talent gap between Cesc and Keita is supposed to be pretty large, but the performance contrast is not enough to justify paying Arsenal's asking price IMO.

This is the primary reason I don't want Barcelona to pursue Cesc. They claim to only have 45 million or so to spend this off-season, and have a need for help at the back. Puyol is getting older and was injured much of last season. Apart from his play in the center, Puyol was also the player to play at right back when Alves would get suspended or injured. Abidal is also getting up there in age and I think Barcelona is looking towards making him a center back with Adriano seeing more time at left back. Behind them is Milito, who has almost never been healthy since his arrival at Barcelona, and Andreu Fontas, who is promising, but also young and inexperienced. Mascherano can offer periodic help, but I don't know if he is a long-term solution there. In light of this Barcelona's management is looking to spend a significant portion of their transfer budget on a player who wouldn't immediately crack the first 11. It doesn't make sense to me given their other needs.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

If we're losing our best athletes to other sports, it then follows that the best soccer players could've excelled in other sports had they been corralled that way at a young age. Some of them probably could, but others -- and I'd even say many -- do not. As was mentioned above, I think there are some athletes who are uniquely gifted at soccer, and not so much at other sports. And certainly there are a lot of guys who can kind of play everything, but America should have enough of the former, along with the resources of being a First World country, to excel globally.

There's a guy that plays on our company soccer team that before last year, had never played any sort of competitive soccer. He was however, a D-1 baseball player. In the 1 1/2 years that I have played with him, the touch he has on the ball, his field awareness and nose for the goal is astounding. I'm truly amazed that despite being a great overall athlete, he was able to pick up soccer so quickly. It doesn't hurt that he has some pretty good speed to add to the equation.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I didn't see it anywhere in this thread, but De Gea finally signed for ManU for 29m€. Not a bad bit of business for my boys, although losing possibly the next great Spanish keeper is tough. Nonetheless, it was the right thing to do.That's two homegrown players with strong ties to Atlético (Fernando Torres is the other one, obviously) that have jumped to the EPL for a large sum. We'll see if either ever come back to their home club later in their careers.

Is Asenjo going to be the keeper there next season?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Thiago extended his contract 2 years and has a buyout of 90 million so he's not going anywhere. That should be the end of the Cesc back to Barca rumors.

With Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets starting and Keita, Mascherano, and Thiago as backups there is no room for Cesc.

Ok- Barca fans... the way I see the above, Cesc is competing with just Xavi and Iniesta, since the other guys play different roles in the MF than he does. So I don't see how Thiago re-upping changes anything... correct me please.

Keita is the primary backup for Xavi and Iniesta now with Thiago behind him(probably more of an even split this year). If Cesc comes, it will be hard to see Thiago getting the time to develop. I think the development of Thiago is too important to the club to see him languish on the bench; it is eerie how similar he looks to Xavi when conducting the midfield. I take the extention and high release as a sign that Barcelona is planning to move forward with Thiago as the hier to the midfield engine. I could still see Cesc happening if they unloaded Keita, but I don't know why they would do that. Keita has been very valuable for the club and led the team in appearances last season. I know the talent gap between Cesc and Keita is supposed to be pretty large, but the performance contrast is not enough to justify paying Arsenal's asking price IMO.

This is the primary reason I don't want Barcelona to pursue Cesc. They claim to only have 45 million or so to spend this off-season, and have a need for help at the back. Puyol is getting older and was injured much of last season. Apart from his play in the center, Puyol was also the player to play at right back when Alves would get suspended or injured. Abidal is also getting up there in age and I think Barcelona is looking towards making him a center back with Adriano seeing more time at left back. Behind them is Milito, who has almost never been healthy since his arrival at Barcelona, and Andreu Fontas, who is promising, but also young and inexperienced. Mascherano can offer periodic help, but I don't know if he is a long-term solution there. In light of this Barcelona's management is looking to spend a significant portion of their transfer budget on a player who wouldn't immediately crack the first 11. It doesn't make sense to me given their other needs.

Agreed. Given his versatility and skill, I think Sanchez is the way to go over Cesc. Then spend the rest on the back-line. There just aren't enough spots on the field right now for all of the talent that Barcelona has.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

 

[Moe.]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

 

[Sebowski]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again. Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

 

[Moe.]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again. Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

I don't know if they tried and failed to get the rights or what but I'm bummed that FSC isn't covering this. I'd watch the #### out of this thing if we could get some English commentary. I was hoping Time Warner would offer the UK feed as a PPV or something but it doesn't look like they are.

 

[El Floppo]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again. Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

I don't know if they tried and failed to get the rights or what but I'm bummed that FSC isn't covering this. I'd watch the #### out of this thing if we could get some English commentary. I was hoping Time Warner would offer the UK feed as a PPV or something but it doesn't look like they are.

It's in Argentina, right?Bolivia, IIRC, doesn't usually do as well out of their 40,000 feet above sea-level home field.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again.

Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

I don't know if they tried and failed to get the rights or what but I'm bummed that FSC isn't covering this. I'd watch the #### out of this thing if we could get some English commentary. I was hoping Time Warner would offer the UK feed as a PPV or something but it doesn't look like they are.

Youtube is supposed to be broadcasting all games live: http://www.youtube.com/copaamerica. I went to the site and it is showing a warning that the video is not available in this country but based on the comments below, that seems to be appearing for many different countries. Not sure if that's going to change once the games begin tonight though. Here is the press release:

Live Soccer on YouTube: the 2011 Copa America Tournament

The beautiful game, as played by some of the world's best players, is coming to YouTube this summer.

Streamed to more than 50 countries around the world, the 2011 Copa America - the South American national soccer tournament that comes around every 4 years - will be broadcast live from Argentina on YouTube, July 1 - 24. Arguably the most important global sporting event of the year, the 2011 Copa will feature the 10 South American national teams and two guest teams, Mexico and Costa Rica, battling for continental soccer supremacy.

On the Copa America channel at youtube.com/copaamerica, soccer fans will have access to all 26 matches including pool play, semi-finals, quarter-finals and the championship match, live streaming as they happen with exclusive-to-YouTube commentary, as well as a highlights from all the matches, goal compilations, full-game uploads and more.

Taking place across eight Argentine host cities, this year's tournament will prominently feature Brazil and Argentina, soccer-mad nations who have won seven of the 19 FIFA World Cups and are talent factories of the best players in the world. Uruguay, Paraguay and Mexico are also stalwarts of the international soccer landscape, with an enviable pool of young talents. The list of players expected to compete is an all-star roster representing household-name professional teams, including Diego Milito (Argentina, Inter Milan), Robinho (Brazil, AC Milan), Diego Forlan (Uruguay, Athletico Madrid), and dozens more world class footballers.

Not to mention the player Argentines call "la pulga" ("the flea') - Lionel Messi. Messi is the two-time FIFA Player of the Year who has a list of honors and trophies, including this year's UEFA Champions League title. He is still only 23 years old (!) and looking to add a Copa to his résumé.

The three week competition starts on July 1, with Messi and Argentina meeting Bolivia in La Plata. To whet your appetite for great soccer, starting today on www.youtube.com/copaamerica you can find video from past tournaments, including great goals from the 2007 edition.

Precise touch passing, perfectly-weighted crosses, ball-glued-to-the-foot dribbling, artistic creativity and flair, thumping mid-air collisions, astonishing displays of speed and skill, and likely some controversial moments: all facets of the planet's most popular sport will be on display on Copa America 2011 on YouTube: don't miss it!

 

[Sebowski]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again. Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

I don't know if they tried and failed to get the rights or what but I'm bummed that FSC isn't covering this. I'd watch the #### out of this thing if we could get some English commentary. I was hoping Time Warner would offer the UK feed as a PPV or something but it doesn't look like they are.

It's in Argentina, right?Bolivia, IIRC, doesn't usually do as well out of their 40,000 feet above sea-level home field.

You recall correctly. At least when they don't have El Diablo and Moreno suited up.

 

[El Floppo]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again. Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

I don't know if they tried and failed to get the rights or what but I'm bummed that FSC isn't covering this. I'd watch the #### out of this thing if we could get some English commentary. I was hoping Time Warner would offer the UK feed as a PPV or something but it doesn't look like they are.

It's in Argentina, right?Bolivia, IIRC, doesn't usually do as well out of their 40,000 feet above sea-level home field.

You recall correctly. At least when they don't have El Diablo and Moreno suited up.

Gracias- but they did give Argentina a 6-0 or 1 thrashing at home last WCQ, IIRC.

 

[Sebowski]

Copa America today! Woo hoo!

Univision only, correct?

Not even. Looks like only Telefutura. Argentina-Bolivia today! The two teams I'm rooting for playing against each other. It's like Arsenal-Barca all over again. Really hoping Messi shuts up his "doesn't play for his country" detractors this tournament. Also hoping for a non-embarrassing showing from Bolivia. I have the DVR set.

I don't know if they tried and failed to get the rights or what but I'm bummed that FSC isn't covering this. I'd watch the #### out of this thing if we could get some English commentary. I was hoping Time Warner would offer the UK feed as a PPV or something but it doesn't look like they are.

It's in Argentina, right?Bolivia, IIRC, doesn't usually do as well out of their 40,000 feet above sea-level home field.

You recall correctly. At least when they don't have El Diablo and Moreno suited up.

Gracias- but they did give Argentina a 6-0 or 1 thrashing at home last WCQ, IIRC.

You do recall correctly. They are very formidable at 600,000 feet above sea level.