***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

[ffldrew]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

to me - the chip looked offsides - definitely even on the pass over

 

[Mjolnirs]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

So Spain scored? uefa ticker crashed on me.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

So Spain scored? uefa ticker crashed on me.

Yes. 1. Spain, 2. Italy.

 

[Christo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

 

[prefontaine]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

Neither was off. Fantastic job the the assistant getting that right as they were both incredibly close.

 

[Christo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

Neither was off. Fantastic job the the assistant getting that right as they were both incredibly close.

Wrong. Navas was in an offside position on the original pass to Iniesta. Because of that, he may not actively take part in the subsequent play. It's irrelevant that he was not in an offside position when Iniesta passed the ball to him.

 

[PIK95]

Sorry if this has been addressed here already, but what are some good resources to learn about high level soccer?

I've been enjoying watching EPL lately and want to learn more but have had a hard time finding websites and podcasts that aren't way over my head. I've tried to follow Liverpool simply because Fenway Sports Group owns them, and it seems like a good time to jump on when they've got a new manager and system, but I'm open to whoever/whatever league. EPL does seem the most accessible though.

EPL is what you want to watch imo. I support Liverpool so I won't argue with that choice. BTW, they are playing Roma at Fenway in late July. You should really try and get there. EPL is always on Fox soccer and ESPN on Saturday mornings from August until June so it's not hard to follow. Also the quality of play and officiating is top notch throughout the entire table imo. No diving really. No commercials is $$ for me. I watch most games. Also CLCF in Cranston is a top notch program if your into local talent.

Guys that dive in the EPL get carded most of the time. The officials are great at that. Whenever I try to watch a Serie A match or "El Classico" I end up turning the channel because I can't take the fake dives. My opinion but I do watch pretty much every EPL match on TV. I think the refs are great there. It's very physical but I don't mind that at all. Drogba earned tons of respect from me as he was a great player even in a physical league like the EPL. Fernando Torres fell on his face whenever it got physical and now rides the pine dor Chelski.

Drogba can't go 10 minutes without faking an injury.

Using Drogba as an example of a player that gets respect for not diving is pretty hilarious.

I said Drogba was a great player in a physical league. I never mentioned his diving or not. I said Torres couldn't take the physical play and now rides the pine. Reading comprehension down?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Sorry if this has been addressed here already, but what are some good resources to learn about high level soccer?

I've been enjoying watching EPL lately and want to learn more but have had a hard time finding websites and podcasts that aren't way over my head. I've tried to follow Liverpool simply because Fenway Sports Group owns them, and it seems like a good time to jump on when they've got a new manager and system, but I'm open to whoever/whatever league. EPL does seem the most accessible though.

EPL is what you want to watch imo. I support Liverpool so I won't argue with that choice. BTW, they are playing Roma at Fenway in late July. You should really try and get there. EPL is always on Fox soccer and ESPN on Saturday mornings from August until June so it's not hard to follow. Also the quality of play and officiating is top notch throughout the entire table imo. No diving really. No commercials is $$ for me. I watch most games. Also CLCF in Cranston is a top notch program if your into local talent.

Guys that dive in the EPL get carded most of the time. The officials are great at that. Whenever I try to watch a Serie A match or "El Classico" I end up turning the channel because I can't take the fake dives. My opinion but I do watch pretty much every EPL match on TV. I think the refs are great there. It's very physical but I don't mind that at all. Drogba earned tons of respect from me as he was a great player even in a physical league like the EPL. Fernando Torres fell on his face whenever it got physical and now rides the pine dor Chelski.

Drogba can't go 10 minutes without faking an injury.

Using Drogba as an example of a player that gets respect for not diving is pretty hilarious.

I said Drogba was a great player in a physical league. I never mentioned his diving or not. I said Torres couldn't take the physical play and now rides the pine. Reading comprehension down?

The Clasicos (I'll put Serie A aside for a second, as it's difficult to make league-wide generalizations) are extremely physical, via Marcelo, Pepe, Busquets, Mascherano, etc. Even the attacking players on both sides are fairly tough players, even if they're not destroyers like a Marcelo or a Busquets. And, there is diving on both teams in the Clasicos. Didier Drogba is a physical player too, and he dives quite a bit. More often than an average RM/Barca player. How many times did he fake an injury over both Barcelona games? Five? Six?

I don't get why one makes you turn the TV off, but you respect the other.

 

[Slapdash]

Sorry if this has been addressed here already, but what are some good resources to learn about high level soccer?

I've been enjoying watching EPL lately and want to learn more but have had a hard time finding websites and podcasts that aren't way over my head. I've tried to follow Liverpool simply because Fenway Sports Group owns them, and it seems like a good time to jump on when they've got a new manager and system, but I'm open to whoever/whatever league. EPL does seem the most accessible though.

EPL is what you want to watch imo. I support Liverpool so I won't argue with that choice. BTW, they are playing Roma at Fenway in late July. You should really try and get there. EPL is always on Fox soccer and ESPN on Saturday mornings from August until June so it's not hard to follow. Also the quality of play and officiating is top notch throughout the entire table imo. No diving really. No commercials is $$ for me. I watch most games. Also CLCF in Cranston is a top notch program if your into local talent.

Guys that dive in the EPL get carded most of the time. The officials are great at that. Whenever I try to watch a Serie A match or "El Classico" I end up turning the channel because I can't take the fake dives. My opinion but I do watch pretty much every EPL match on TV. I think the refs are great there. It's very physical but I don't mind that at all. Drogba earned tons of respect from me as he was a great player even in a physical league like the EPL. Fernando Torres fell on his face whenever it got physical and now rides the pine dor Chelski.

Drogba can't go 10 minutes without faking an injury.

Using Drogba as an example of a player that gets respect for not diving is pretty hilarious.

I said Drogba was a great player in a physical league. I never mentioned his diving or not. I said Torres couldn't take the physical play and now rides the pine. Reading comprehension down?

You praised Drogba, one of the most prolific divers in the EPL, for his physical play in a response supporting your contention that there is "no diving really" in the EPL. Hard not to find the irony there.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Drogba just read this thread and fell to the ground screaming and clutching his penis.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Nervous finishes like the games this afternoon always make me realize how fantastic a sport this really is.

FORZA

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Nervous finishes like the games this afternoon always make me realize how fantastic a sport this really is.FARTZA

 

[GoFishTN]

Rumors floating that AVB had signed with, or is talking to, Spurs. Didn't care for his attitude at Chelsea, but it's probably hard to smile with a knife in your back.

Laurent Blanc now.So, according to twitter Spurs are hiring Moyes, Martinez, AVB, AND Blanc. I hope they have enough seats.

 

[Moe.]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

The direction of the ball doesn't matter. Navas was behind the ball therefore he cannot be off. I think Christo is incorrect, it doesn't matter that he was in an offside position when the ball was played to Iniesta. I think they used to call it that way but not anymore. It did look like Corluka was fouled in the box though.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Didier Drogba is a physical player too, and he dives quite a bit. More often than an average RM/Barca player. How many times did he fake an injury over both Barcelona games? Five? Six?

I know for sure it was more than eight because I was counting. My wife wasn't even watching the games and she couldn't believe how many times he was on the ground when she came through. Drogba's a fine striker, but he's also a diving dirtbag.ETA: Torres scored 65 goals in 102 league games for Liverpool. That's a pretty good rate. He may be past it now (or not), but the problems at Chelsea aren't due to a lack of talent.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I can't honestly say I watch enough La Liga or Serie A, but I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that there is less diving in the EPL than in other leagues. "Simulation" happens everywhere at the top levels of the sport.

To answer the guy who wants to follow the sport more, the EPL is probably the easiest to follow because it's the most accessible in the US at the moment. I'm not going to claim it's the "best league" (and I don't actually think it is the "best league" in terms of overall quality), but ESPN/FSC have done a good job of covering it over the last few years. I did find myself watching and enjoying Spanish soccer during the 3-month period when I did get GolTV on my cable package, but once Time Warner dropped it (they gave us a free 3-months during their dispute with MSG, who broadcasts Sabres games; the Sabres games were not locally televised from early Jan thru late Feb this year) it's difficult for me to follow the Spanish game without watching ESPN3. There are discussions of a rights dispute, I think, someone else would know more - it has been discussed in here.

My only real other advice is to find some players you enjoy watching. For me, when I was really starting to get into it in the early 2000s, that player was Thierry Henry. While Henry has moved on (he'll still be my favorite player of all-time), I've stuck with Arsenal. Some of the newer Barcelona fans in this thread probably feel the same way about Messi and some of their other stars. Honestly, if you want to watch the game as it's meant to be played, just watch some Barcelona games. It's impossible to watch one of their games and not be in awe of the way they play.

 

[prefontaine]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

Neither was off. Fantastic job the the assistant getting that right as they were both incredibly close.

Wrong. Navas was in an offside position on the original pass to Iniesta. Because of that, he may not actively take part in the subsequent play. It's irrelevant that he was not in an offside position when Iniesta passed the ball to him.

Once Iniesta controls the ball and Navas gets back on, he can in fact actively take part in the play. There is nothing in the law stating that once offside you are always offside. You can only be offside from the point of contact from your teammate. You could of course rule that Navas was active in the original play because it distracted the goalie, a defender, whatever. But if you rule him passive on Xavi's ball, then the play is fine provided he gets onside before Iniesta plays the ball (which he clearly did). There is a reason there is no press claiming offsides -- it was correctly called.

 

[El Floppo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

Neither.

 

[Christo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

Neither was off. Fantastic job the the assistant getting that right as they were both incredibly close.

Wrong. Navas was in an offside position on the original pass to Iniesta. Because of that, he may not actively take part in the subsequent play. It's irrelevant that he was not in an offside position when Iniesta passed the ball to him.

Once Iniesta controls the ball and Navas gets back on, he can in fact actively take part in the play. There is nothing in the law stating that once offside you are always offside. You can only be offside from the point of contact from your teammate. You could of course rule that Navas was active in the original play because it distracted the goalie, a defender, whatever. But if you rule him passive on Xavi's ball, then the play is fine provided he gets onside before Iniesta plays the ball (which he clearly did). There is a reason there is no press claiming offsides -- it was correctly called.

How could an unmarked offside attacker not distract the goalie?

 

[El Floppo]

Sorry if this has been addressed here already, but what are some good resources to learn about high level soccer?

I've been enjoying watching EPL lately and want to learn more but have had a hard time finding websites and podcasts that aren't way over my head. I've tried to follow Liverpool simply because Fenway Sports Group owns them, and it seems like a good time to jump on when they've got a new manager and system, but I'm open to whoever/whatever league. EPL does seem the most accessible though.

EPL is what you want to watch imo. I support Liverpool so I won't argue with that choice. BTW, they are playing Roma at Fenway in late July. You should really try and get there. EPL is always on Fox soccer and ESPN on Saturday mornings from August until June so it's not hard to follow. Also the quality of play and officiating is top notch throughout the entire table imo. No diving really. No commercials is $$ for me. I watch most games. Also CLCF in Cranston is a top notch program if your into local talent.

Guys that dive in the EPL get carded most of the time. The officials are great at that. Whenever I try to watch a Serie A match or "El Classico" I end up turning the channel because I can't take the fake dives. My opinion but I do watch pretty much every EPL match on TV. I think the refs are great there. It's very physical but I don't mind that at all. Drogba earned tons of respect from me as he was a great player even in a physical league like the EPL. Fernando Torres fell on his face whenever it got physical and now rides the pine dor Chelski.

Drogba can't go 10 minutes without faking an injury.

Using Drogba as an example of a player that gets respect for not diving is pretty hilarious.

I said Drogba was a great player in a physical league. I never mentioned his diving or not. I said Torres couldn't take the physical play and now rides the pine. Reading comprehension down?

You praised Drogba, one of the most prolific divers in the EPL, for his physical play in a response supporting your contention that there is "no diving really" in the EPL. Hard not to find the irony there.

Drogba got booed- IN SPAIN- for diving and embellishment. IN ####### SPAIN.I like the guy as a player a lot- but if I think Drogba, I think of a guy who scores big goals and a guy who's penis just got hurt by GPJ's post. Not a guy you want to mention anywhere near a statement trying to maintain that the EPL doesn't have divers.

And fwiw- if you want no divers, MLS and the A-League (Australia) are about as "good" as it gets.

If you want divers, look at everywhere else- especially South of our border. And Thomas Muller.

 

[El Floppo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

Neither was off. Fantastic job the the assistant getting that right as they were both incredibly close.

Wrong. Navas was in an offside position on the original pass to Iniesta. Because of that, he may not actively take part in the subsequent play. It's irrelevant that he was not in an offside position when Iniesta passed the ball to him.

Once Iniesta controls the ball and Navas gets back on, he can in fact actively take part in the play. There is nothing in the law stating that once offside you are always offside. You can only be offside from the point of contact from your teammate. You could of course rule that Navas was active in the original play because it distracted the goalie, a defender, whatever. But if you rule him passive on Xavi's ball, then the play is fine provided he gets onside before Iniesta plays the ball (which he clearly did). There is a reason there is no press claiming offsides -- it was correctly called.

How could an unmarked offside attacker not distract the goalie?

Oh Christo.

 

[El Floppo]

Btw- Super-Mario's goal was niiiiice. But I still fully expect him to go bat-#### any second now.

 

[Christo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

I couldn't tell re: the first pass, the second was clearly a forward pass. That's offsides by the letter of the law, correct?

Neither was off. Fantastic job the the assistant getting that right as they were both incredibly close.

Wrong. Navas was in an offside position on the original pass to Iniesta. Because of that, he may not actively take part in the subsequent play. It's irrelevant that he was not in an offside position when Iniesta passed the ball to him.

Once Iniesta controls the ball and Navas gets back on, he can in fact actively take part in the play. There is nothing in the law stating that once offside you are always offside. You can only be offside from the point of contact from your teammate. You could of course rule that Navas was active in the original play because it distracted the goalie, a defender, whatever. But if you rule him passive on Xavi's ball, then the play is fine provided he gets onside before Iniesta plays the ball (which he clearly did). There is a reason there is no press claiming offsides -- it was correctly called.

How could an unmarked offside attacker not distract the goalie?

Oh Christo.

He gained an advantage by being offside. At no point in time was he passive. And it's ridiculous to claim that he was.

 

[Slapdash]

Obvious offside IMO. Navas was off on the pass to Iniesta and was involved in the play.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

Neither.

First one was so close that you couldn't argue with the call either way IMO. Second was clearly on. And the only time I've ever seen player who's offside, but not receiving the ball flagged is if there's a shot and he's near the keeper.

 

[Ursa M]

Croatia's extreme conservatism got them what they deserved. Nothing.

 

[Slapdash]

More Pep rumours:

Bayern in talks with ex-Barca boss Guardiola: Bild June 19 (AFP) -- German giants Bayern Munich are in talks to sign former Barcelona coach Pep Guardiola when current boss Jupp Heynckes steps down in 2013, mass circulation Bild reported on Tuesday. Bayern's director of football Christian Nerlinger held talks in May with Guardiola's brother Pere, who is also his advisor, on the sidelines of the Spanish Cup Final, which Barcelona won 3-0, Bild said. "The world-class manager is said to have signalled his interest," the paper wrote. Guardiola, 41, delivered three Spanish league trophies, two Champions Leagues, two FIFA World Club Cups, two UEFA Supercups, three Spanish Supercups and two Spanish Cup victories in four years as coach at the Nou Camp. Heynckes has a contract running until 2013. Bild said this was "perfect timing." "Guardiola wants to take a year out to recharge his batteries and study. It's perfect timing ... he can then learn German at his leisure," said the paper, usually well informed on comings and goings at Bayern's Allianz Arena. Bayern defender Holger Badstuber, who is with the Germany team at Euro 2012 and is set to face Greece in Friday's quarter-final, said Heynckes' boots will be hard to fill. "It's news to me, but we have a legendary coach in Jupp Heynckes who has wealth of experience and whoever comes after him is for the board to decide," said Badstuber.

Probably the best fit of anything mentioned so far. A team that plays his brand of soccer with probably the second best youth system in Europe.

 

[PIK95]

Didier Drogba is a physical player too, and he dives quite a bit. More often than an average RM/Barca player. How many times did he fake an injury over both Barcelona games? Five? Six?

I know for sure it was more than eight because I was counting. My wife wasn't even watching the games and she couldn't believe how many times he was on the ground when she came through. Drogba's a fine striker, but he's also a diving dirtbag.ETA: Torres scored 65 goals in 102 league games for Liverpool. That's a pretty good rate. He may be past it now (or not), but the problems at Chelsea aren't due to a lack of talent.

My point about Drogba was that he takes a beating yet stills puts the ball in the net and is a top player despite the pounding. I hate Chelsea and I am not a Drogba fan but he is a tough dude. I am a Liverpool fan so I am very familiar with how many goal Torres had. My point was that he wasn't strong enough to deal with the physical play long term and it finally caught up with him physically AND mentally. He now rides the EPL pine and I would be suprised to see that change going forward. The EPL has better quality play from week to week throughout the table. I don't feel like Spain and Italy have that. I also feel the play is sloppy outside the top couple of teams in both leagues. Serie A is defense optional and they dive every twenty seconds or so on VERY soft fouls. When guys fall in EPL there is USUALLY a good reason. Guys are getting crushed all game. Not so much in Italy. I also have never heard of match fixing in England but it seems to come up every year over there in Italy. As for La Liga I get very board watching two or three clubs destroying the rest of the table every year because they have more $$. It's the same reason I stopped caring about Sox-Yanks and I haven't been to Fenway in a couple of years.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I've griped about this kind of interpretation of the passive offside rule many times in this thread. To say that Navas is "passive" as he is charging right down the center of the box toward goal is absurd. The only rational explanation is that the linesman just missed it and thought he was on. Busquets' penalty on Corluka just before the goal was also a very lucky non-call imo, but I think overall Spain played better and deserves to go through.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Sorry if this has been addressed here already, but what are some good resources to learn about high level soccer?

I've been enjoying watching EPL lately and want to learn more but have had a hard time finding websites and podcasts that aren't way over my head. I've tried to follow Liverpool simply because Fenway Sports Group owns them, and it seems like a good time to jump on when they've got a new manager and system, but I'm open to whoever/whatever league. EPL does seem the most accessible though.

EPL is what you want to watch imo. I support Liverpool so I won't argue with that choice. BTW, they are playing Roma at Fenway in late July. You should really try and get there. EPL is always on Fox soccer and ESPN on Saturday mornings from August until June so it's not hard to follow. Also the quality of play and officiating is top notch throughout the entire table imo. No diving really. No commercials is $$ for me. I watch most games. Also CLCF in Cranston is a top notch program if your into local talent.

Guys that dive in the EPL get carded most of the time. The officials are great at that. Whenever I try to watch a Serie A match or "El Classico" I end up turning the channel because I can't take the fake dives. My opinion but I do watch pretty much every EPL match on TV. I think the refs are great there. It's very physical but I don't mind that at all. Drogba earned tons of respect from me as he was a great player even in a physical league like the EPL. Fernando Torres fell on his face whenever it got physical and now rides the pine dor Chelski.

Drogba can't go 10 minutes without faking an injury.

Using Drogba as an example of a player that gets respect for not diving is pretty hilarious.

I said Drogba was a great player in a physical league. I never mentioned his diving or not. I said Torres couldn't take the physical play and now rides the pine. Reading comprehension down?

You praised Drogba, one of the most prolific divers in the EPL, for his physical play in a response supporting your contention that there is "no diving really" in the EPL. Hard not to find the irony there.

Drogba got booed- IN SPAIN- for diving and embellishment. IN ####### SPAIN.I like the guy as a player a lot- but if I think Drogba, I think of a guy who scores big goals and a guy who's penis just got hurt by GPJ's post. Not a guy you want to mention anywhere near a statement trying to maintain that the EPL doesn't have divers.

And fwiw- if you want no divers, MLS and the A-League (Australia) are about as "good" as it gets.

If you want divers, look at everywhere else- especially South of our border. And Thomas Muller.

Of course he was booed at the Camp Nou. That proves nothing. I am a Chelsea fan and the proud owner of a vintage 2004 Drogba jersey from his first season with Chels (purchased after seeing him score a great goal in an exhibition game in Philadelphia against Milan - his first ever in a Chelsea shirt I believe), but have never been comfortable with his theatrics. That said, he is a very strong forward. That is the strength of his game. In my experience, Drogba will fight through a hard foul if he thinks he can get to the ball. It's when he's lost the ball and has no chance to get a shot off that he goes sprawling.

 

[Steve Tasker]

As for La Liga I get very board watching two or three clubs destroying the rest of the table every year because they have more $$. It's the same reason I stopped caring about Sox-Yanks and I haven't been to Fenway in a couple of years.

You do realize that only 5 teams have won EPL titles in the 20 seasons of the league, right? And just 3 teams since Arsenal's last title in 03-04? I can agree that there may be more parity among the top 8 or so teams in England compared to Spain where the top 2 seemingly run away for the title, but let's be honest, there's only 3 teams with the money to really win the EPL. City and United combined for 56-10-10 records and each finished 19 points ahead of the 3rd place team....

 

[NewlyRetired]

Amongst all the noise and news of Euro 2012, something very sad and important may have slipped by many fans.

As many know, Rangers from Scotland was in deep trouble.

That trouble has now officially ended, by ruling of the courts.

Rangers, which was established in 1872, is now a dead club. Defunct in every way.

Even though their assets were sold off to a new company under the name Rangers FC, none of the history, records or titles can be transferred.

Rangers FC will start fresh as a brand new side with no history. By all rights they should start at the bottom of the pyramid but the SPL owners are still debating whether or not to let them right into the SPL. Final vote will be July 4th.

The fate of the Rangers players is still undetermined. Most seem to feel that every player will be a free agent and will not be obligated to play with the new Rangers FC. Others say the registration issues could be sticky.

What a sad and inglorious mess for everyone involved.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Amongst all the noise and news of Euro 2012, something very sad and important may have slipped by many fans.

As many know, Rangers from Scotland was in deep trouble.

That trouble has now officially ended, by ruling of the courts.

Rangers, which was established in 1872, is now a dead club. Defunct in every way.

Even though their assets were sold off to a new company under the name Rangers FC, none of the history, records or titles can be transferred.

Rangers FC will start fresh as a brand new side with no history. By all rights they should start at the bottom of the pyramid but the SPL owners are still debating whether or not to let them right into the SPL. Final vote will be July 4th.

The fate of the Rangers players is still undetermined. Most seem to feel that every player will be a free agent and will not be obligated to play with the new Rangers FC. Others say the registration issues could be sticky.

What a sad and inglorious mess for everyone involved.

I read something yesterday from the SFL saying that they would not allow Rangers right back into the premier league and that they'd have to start in the third division at best. Who knows what'll end up happening, though, all speculation at this point.

 

[Moe.]

I've griped about this kind of interpretation of the passive offside rule many times in this thread. To say that Navas is "passive" as he is charging right down the center of the box toward goal is absurd. The only rational explanation is that the linesman just missed it and thought he was on.

So in the first sentence you acknowledge that there are different interpretations of the rule, then later you say the only rational explanation is that the linesman completely missed an easy call? Maybe his interpretation of the rule is different than yours?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Amongst all the noise and news of Euro 2012, something very sad and important may have slipped by many fans.

As many know, Rangers from Scotland was in deep trouble.

That trouble has now officially ended, by ruling of the courts.

Rangers, which was established in 1872, is now a dead club. Defunct in every way.

Even though their assets were sold off to a new company under the name Rangers FC, none of the history, records or titles can be transferred.

Rangers FC will start fresh as a brand new side with no history. By all rights they should start at the bottom of the pyramid but the SPL owners are still debating whether or not to let them right into the SPL. Final vote will be July 4th.

The fate of the Rangers players is still undetermined. Most seem to feel that every player will be a free agent and will not be obligated to play with the new Rangers FC. Others say the registration issues could be sticky.

What a sad and inglorious mess for everyone involved.

I read something yesterday from the SFL saying that they would not allow Rangers right back into the premier league and that they'd have to start in the third division at best. Who knows what'll end up happening, though, all speculation at this point.

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

 

[brewer]

As for La Liga I get very board watching two or three clubs destroying the rest of the table every year because they have more $$. It's the same reason I stopped caring about Sox-Yanks and I haven't been to Fenway in a couple of years.

You do realize that only 5 teams have won EPL titles in the 20 seasons of the league, right? And just 3 teams since Arsenal's last title in 03-04? I can agree that there may be more parity among the top 8 or so teams in England compared to Spain where the top 2 seemingly run away for the title, but let's be honest, there's only 3 teams with the money to really win the EPL. City and United combined for 56-10-10 records and each finished 19 points ahead of the 3rd place team....

Yah, but I feel the same way as PIK here. The top 6 teams in the EPL are within 25 points and the goal differentials of the Manchesters are in the 50s and 60s. In La Liga, the third place team is 40 points out of first and 30 points out of second. And the Madrid and Barca goal differentials are in the 80s.I won't argue which league is better, but I think its quite fair to say that the EPL is much more competitive.... even if the same handful of teams ends up winning the title each year.

 

[Steve Tasker]

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

Well, there's rumors too that Sky Sports may drop SPL coverage if they don't get the Old Firm games. They denied the rumors yesterday with a really vague comment about continuing SPL coverage, but I have to believe that there's going to be some serious renegotiations and a much lower fee paid if Rangers/Celtic aren't in the same league. It may very well be in the financial best interest of the owners to bend the rules for this....

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I've griped about this kind of interpretation of the passive offside rule many times in this thread. To say that Navas is "passive" as he is charging right down the center of the box toward goal is absurd. The only rational explanation is that the linesman just missed it and thought he was on.

So in the first sentence you acknowledge that there are different interpretations of the rule, then later you say the only rational explanation is that the linesman completely missed an easy call? Maybe his interpretation of the rule is different than yours?

I didn't say it was an easy call. I said either he missed the offside call or his interpretation of the passive offside rule is irrational.

 

[Steve Tasker]

As for La Liga I get very board watching two or three clubs destroying the rest of the table every year because they have more $$. It's the same reason I stopped caring about Sox-Yanks and I haven't been to Fenway in a couple of years.

You do realize that only 5 teams have won EPL titles in the 20 seasons of the league, right? And just 3 teams since Arsenal's last title in 03-04? I can agree that there may be more parity among the top 8 or so teams in England compared to Spain where the top 2 seemingly run away for the title, but let's be honest, there's only 3 teams with the money to really win the EPL. City and United combined for 56-10-10 records and each finished 19 points ahead of the 3rd place team....

Yah, but I feel the same way as PIK here. The top 6 teams in the EPL are within 25 points and the goal differentials of the Manchesters are in the 50s and 60s. In La Liga, the third place team is 40 points out of first and 30 points out of second. And the Madrid and Barca goal differentials are in the 80s.I won't argue which league is better, but I think its quite fair to say that the EPL is much more competitive.... even if the same handful of teams ends up winning the title each year.

Is the EPL really more competitive, though? In Spain this past year, there was a 9-point gap between 3rd (61 points) and 8th (52 points). In England, there was an 18-point gap (Arsenal in 3rd with 70 points, Liverpool/Fulham in 8th/9th on 52 points). Barcelona and Real Madrid are light years ahead of the rest of the Spanish competition, there's no doubt about that.....but City and United were light years ahead of the rest of the English competition this year as well. And IMO, the only team that has the financial means to realistically challenge the two of them is Chelsea.I think that the EPL benefits from having three clubs with worldwide reach in the 3rd-8th middle tier (Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool) and two relatively big-name-in-the-US teams in the middle as well (Newcastle and Spurs). Other than my buddy who studied abroad in Valencia and Z Machine, I don't think I've ever met a fan of Valencia, Malaga, Atletico Madrid, Levante, Osasuna, or Mallorca (3-8 in La Liga for 2011-2012) in real life. Those simply don't have the US reach that Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc. have.Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.Interesting discussion here.

 

[NewlyRetired]

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

Well, there's rumors too that Sky Sports may drop SPL coverage if they don't get the Old Firm games. They denied the rumors yesterday with a really vague comment about continuing SPL coverage, but I have to believe that there's going to be some serious renegotiations and a much lower fee paid if Rangers/Celtic aren't in the same league. It may very well be in the financial best interest of the owners to bend the rules for this....

yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see if the various fan bases accept this new team as a direct replacement for Rangers or not.

 

[Eephus]

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

Well, there's rumors too that Sky Sports may drop SPL coverage if they don't get the Old Firm games. They denied the rumors yesterday with a really vague comment about continuing SPL coverage, but I have to believe that there's going to be some serious renegotiations and a much lower fee paid if Rangers/Celtic aren't in the same league. It may very well be in the financial best interest of the owners to bend the rules for this....

yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see if the various fan bases accept this new team as a direct replacement for Rangers or not.

Well, it's not likely they'll switch their allegiances to Celtic

 

[Moe.]

I've griped about this kind of interpretation of the passive offside rule many times in this thread. To say that Navas is "passive" as he is charging right down the center of the box toward goal is absurd. The only rational explanation is that the linesman just missed it and thought he was on.

So in the first sentence you acknowledge that there are different interpretations of the rule, then later you say the only rational explanation is that the linesman completely missed an easy call? Maybe his interpretation of the rule is different than yours?

I didn't say it was an easy call. I said either he missed the offside call or his interpretation of the passive offside rule is irrational.

Whether or not Navas was in an offside position when the ball was played to Iniesta is an easy call. There's no way he missed that. It was not close. As far as the interpretation of the rule, fair enough, although I think a lot of people agree with the linesman's interpretation.

 

[NewlyRetired]

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

Well, there's rumors too that Sky Sports may drop SPL coverage if they don't get the Old Firm games. They denied the rumors yesterday with a really vague comment about continuing SPL coverage, but I have to believe that there's going to be some serious renegotiations and a much lower fee paid if Rangers/Celtic aren't in the same league. It may very well be in the financial best interest of the owners to bend the rules for this....

yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see if the various fan bases accept this new team as a direct replacement for Rangers or not.

Well, it's not likely they'll switch their allegiances to Celtic

You misunderstood what I said (or I wrote it poorly)I was not talking about the Rangers fans, I was talking about the various Hearts, Celtic, Dundee, Hiberian etc fan bases. Obviously Rangers was a relative huge draw both at the gate and on tv for the other franchises because of their history. I was just wondering if the other fan bases will still view the new Rangers club the same as the old one (assuming they stay in the EPL). If they drop to 3rd division my question is not important.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Hard to consider a guy in the center of the field, just outside the 18 to be passive on a ball played within the width of the 18. Not too mention that Navas was probably obstructing the linesman's view of iniesta, who was onside.

But, it is much ado about nothing. It affected the seeding for the quarters but not who was going through.

 

[Eephus]

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

Well, there's rumors too that Sky Sports may drop SPL coverage if they don't get the Old Firm games. They denied the rumors yesterday with a really vague comment about continuing SPL coverage, but I have to believe that there's going to be some serious renegotiations and a much lower fee paid if Rangers/Celtic aren't in the same league. It may very well be in the financial best interest of the owners to bend the rules for this....

yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see if the various fan bases accept this new team as a direct replacement for Rangers or not.

Well, it's not likely they'll switch their allegiances to Celtic

You misunderstood what I said (or I wrote it poorly)I was not talking about the Rangers fans, I was talking about the various Hearts, Celtic, Dundee, Hiberian etc fan bases. Obviously Rangers was a relative huge draw both at the gate and on tv for the other franchises because of their history. I was just wondering if the other fan bases will still view the new Rangers club the same as the old one (assuming they stay in the EPL). If they drop to 3rd division my question is not important.

It didn't take long for Steelers and Bengals fans to develop some antipathy for the rebooted Cleveland Browns franchise.I think Rangers have enough tradition to retain their identity through all this. Supporters of other clubs will undoubtedly have some new material to chant about but fans realize it's more about the shirt than the ownership group.

 

[NewlyRetired]

There is a lot of discussion back and forth and not all owners agree. I am sure some back room schenanigans might be in play as well.The formal vote happens on July 4th. If 5 or more owners vote no, Rangers will have to apply for a spot in the 3rd division and the SPL will grab a team from the first division to round off the SPL.

Well, there's rumors too that Sky Sports may drop SPL coverage if they don't get the Old Firm games. They denied the rumors yesterday with a really vague comment about continuing SPL coverage, but I have to believe that there's going to be some serious renegotiations and a much lower fee paid if Rangers/Celtic aren't in the same league. It may very well be in the financial best interest of the owners to bend the rules for this....

yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see if the various fan bases accept this new team as a direct replacement for Rangers or not.

Well, it's not likely they'll switch their allegiances to Celtic

You misunderstood what I said (or I wrote it poorly)I was not talking about the Rangers fans, I was talking about the various Hearts, Celtic, Dundee, Hiberian etc fan bases. Obviously Rangers was a relative huge draw both at the gate and on tv for the other franchises because of their history. I was just wondering if the other fan bases will still view the new Rangers club the same as the old one (assuming they stay in the EPL). If they drop to 3rd division my question is not important.

It didn't take long for Steelers and Bengals fans to develop some antipathy for the rebooted Cleveland Browns franchise.

But that is my exact point. The Browns kept all of their history. They were not a blank slate like this new Rangers FC team. The Browns kept all the history and the Ravens became the new team from a historical perspective. People actually went to court over it because keeping the history of the club was so important. Here is how the ruling from the court played out"After extensive talks between the NFL, the Browns and officials of the two cities, Cleveland accepted a legal settlement that would keep the Browns' legacy in Cleveland. On February 9, 1996, the NFL announced that the Browns would be 'deactivated' for three years, and that a new stadium would be built for a new Browns team, as either an expansion team or a team moved from another city, that would begin play in 1999. Modell would in turn then be granted a new franchise (the 31st NFL franchise), for Baltimore, retaining the current contracts of players and personnel. There would be a reactivated team for Cleveland, where the Browns' name, colors, history, records, awards and archives would remain in Cleveland."

 

[brewer]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

 

[Sebowski]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

You do realize that only 5 teams have won EPL titles in the 20 seasons of the league, right?

Last 20 years EPL: Man United (12), Arsenal (3), Chelsea (3), Blackburn (1), Man City (1)Last 20 years Liga: Barca (9), Real Madrid (7), Valencia (2), Atletico (1), Deportivo (1)No really very different.