***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

[El Floppo]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

MLS does.

 

[Eephus]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

The Bundesliga has had six champions in the past twenty years: Bayern x10, Dortmund x5, Bremen, Stuttgart, Kaiserlautern and Wolfsburg

 

[Sebowski]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

MLS does.

Fair enough. I'm sure most domestic leagues outside the big leagues do as well. Should have qualified my statement with "World Class soccer" and league parity.

 

[Sebowski]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

The Bundesliga has had six champions in the past twenty years: Bayern x10, Dortmund x5, Bremen, Stuttgart, Kaiserlautern and Wolfsburg

Exactly. One more than La Liga and EPL in that same timeframe.

 

[Native]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

The Bundesliga has had six champions in the past twenty years: Bayern x10, Dortmund x5, Bremen, Stuttgart, Kaiserlautern and Wolfsburg

Exactly. One more than La Liga and EPL in that same timeframe.

Theyve also had several other clubs challenging right up until the final weeks of the season - such as Leverkusen, Schalke, etc.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Here are Will Hill's odds for next year:

Man City +138

Man United +250

Chelsea +450

Arsenal +600

Spurs +2500

Liverpool +3300

Everything else is over 100-1.

For La Liga, RM is -120, Barcelona is +130, and everything else is 40-1 and up.

 

[Eephus]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

The Bundesliga has had six champions in the past twenty years: Bayern x10, Dortmund x5, Bremen, Stuttgart, Kaiserlautern and Wolfsburg

Exactly. One more than La Liga and EPL in that same timeframe.

Theyve also had several other clubs challenging right up until the final weeks of the season - such as Leverkusen, Schalke, etc.

France has had ten different champions in the past two decades (including OL's seven straight). Current holders Montpellier were in Ligue 2 five years ago.

 

[Native]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.

I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

The Bundesliga has had six champions in the past twenty years: Bayern x10, Dortmund x5, Bremen, Stuttgart, Kaiserlautern and Wolfsburg

Exactly. One more than La Liga and EPL in that same timeframe.

Theyve also had several other clubs challenging right up until the final weeks of the season - such as Leverkusen, Schalke, etc.

France has had ten different champions in the past two decades (including OL's seven straight). Current holders Montpellier were in Ligue 2 five years ago.

Yes, I thought of France as well when the discussion started. Makes the Lyon run that much more impressive - those were some fantastic teams.

 

[Steve Tasker]

The Bundesliga has had six champions in the past twenty years: Bayern x10, Dortmund x5, Bremen, Stuttgart, Kaiserlautern and Wolfsburg

Exactly. One more than La Liga and EPL in that same timeframe.

Theyve also had several other clubs challenging right up until the final weeks of the season - such as Leverkusen, Schalke, etc.

France has had ten different champions in the past two decades (including OL's seven straight). Current holders Montpellier were in Ligue 2 five years ago.

No team other than Rangers or Celtic has won the Scottish title since 1984's Aberdeen, with Sir Alex at the helm. Since 1995, only once has the top 2 in the table NOT been either Rangers-Celtic or Celtic-Rangers - Hearts finished 2nd in 05-06 with Celtic in first.Talk about parity....hell, Rangers were deducted 10 points and still finished 9 points clear of 3rd place.

 

[Eephus]

Yes, I thought of France as well when the discussion started. Makes the Lyon run that much more impressive - those were some fantastic teams.

In spite of being the fifth biggest league in Europe, France has been mostly a seller's league. Ligue 1 doesn't have a ton of TV revenue compared to the top four leagues.Hopefully the influx of Qatari money into PSG won't disrupt the balance of power.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

MLS does.

I was interested to see how many different teams have won so I looked it up.It is either 9 or 10 different teams (depending on how you feel about the San Jose/Houston issue), in 16 seasons.

5 different teams have won in the past 5 years for remarkable parity even with the league having some teams way outspending others.

As a side note, MLS might not be the best comparison because of the playoff system which can produce a strange result or two.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Portugal's top division has only seen 4 different teams win the title going back to 1946. And 1 of those 4 teams won only once. Holy smokes!!!

 

[NewlyRetired]

With AZ and Twente breaking through the last few years in Holland, it snapped a 42 year stranglehold on the title by only three teams (Ajax, PSV, Feeynoord)

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

As a side note, MLS might not be the best comparison because of the playoff system which can produce a strange result or two.

This was my first thought too. And the salary cap works against dynasties as well.Supporters Shields won (8 teams in 16 years)C - 4LA - 4Columbus - 3Tampa, KC, Miami, Chicago, San Jose - 1 each

 

[NewlyRetired]

As a side note, MLS might not be the best comparison because of the playoff system which can produce a strange result or two.

This was my first thought too. And the salary cap works against dynasties as well.Supporters Shields won (8 teams in 16 years)C - 4LA - 4Columbus - 3Tampa, KC, Miami, Chicago, San Jose - 1 each

Yeah I agree about the salary cap. Even though some teams WAY outspend others, it is usually based on a few players and does not really help out with depth. Although with the Supporters Shield not having any real meaning until recent years, I know for a fact that some teams at the end of the regular season rested players instead of trying to win it. Tieing a CCL berth to the Supporters Shield was a smart idea to give it some meaning.

 

[Native]

With AZ and Twente breaking through the last few years in Holland, it snapped a 42 year stranglehold on the title by only three teams (Ajax, PSV, Feeynoord)

In Israel's National Basketball League, which was founded in 1954, Macabbi Tel Aviv has won 50 of a possible 58 Championships. They won 23 straight between 1970 and 1992.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Different ball of wax, but Cal's rugby team has won 19 of the last 21 titles, and 26 out of 32 total.

 

[brewer]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

I like mushrooms on my pizza too. Perhaps you like green peppers better.

 

[Eephus]

Different ball of wax, but Cal's rugby team has won 19 of the last 21 titles, and 26 out of 32 total.

But the Bears haven't won the Rose Bowl since 1938

 

[Sebowski]

Like I said, first instinct tells me that there's more competition in the 3rd-8th window in the EPL rather than Spain, but is that really true? Who has a better chance of winning their league - Arsenal or Valencia? Is there a wider gap in class between Arsenal and Fulham than there is betwen Valencia and Mallorca? I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting discussion here.

I'm not sure that I could argue with a straight face that Arsenal had a better chance of winning the EPL than Valencia had of winning La Liga. In truth, they both were extremely slim. However, the perception is that Arsenal was in the race for far longer than Valencia was. As a fan, I am intrigued by that. And it's not just about the title. The race for the Champions league qualification was awesome this season.I'll certainly never knock someone for preferring one over the other.

And that was just as tight in La Liga and Serie A. And if the EPL teams are so great, how did Man U and Man City get knocked out of Europa so easily after getting booted from Champions League?

ETA: If it is true parity you seek, nothing beats the Bundisliga.

I like mushrooms on my pizza too. Perhaps you like green peppers better.

As long as it is a quality pizza, I think we should both be able to enjoy it. I'll just pick the mushrooms off when its easy.

 

[CBusAlex]

Rangers, which was established in 1872, is now a dead club. Defunct in every way.

Well, that about wraps it up. Time to go Catholic, everyone.

 

[Eephus]

Rangers, which was established in 1872, is now a dead club. Defunct in every way.

Well, that about wraps it up. Time to go Catholic, everyone.

Part of the Knights Templar's masterplan.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Gylfi Sigurdsson bought an apartment in Liverpool today.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Different ball of wax, but Cal's rugby team has won 19 of the last 21 titles, and 26 out of 32 total.

But the Bears haven't won the Rose Bowl since 1938

Maybe let the rugby team try.

 

[Christo]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

Neither.

First one was so close that you couldn't argue with the call either way IMO. Second was clearly on. And the only time I've ever seen player who's offside, but not receiving the ball flagged is if there's a shot and he's near the keeper.

So we have two scenarios. They start exactly the same with a pass to Iniesta while Navas is offside. In the first, Iniesta pulls even with Navas, passes him the ball and Navas scores. In the second, Iniesta shoots, the GK saves, Navas puts away the rebound.Are you really saying the first is a goal and the second is free kick for Croatia?

 

[ffldrew]

Looks like England has missed the wake up call

 

[ffldrew]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

Neither.

First one was so close that you couldn't argue with the call either way IMO. Second was clearly on. And the only time I've ever seen player who's offside, but not receiving the ball flagged is if there's a shot and he's near the keeper.

So we have two scenarios. They start exactly the same with a pass to Iniesta while Navas is offside. In the first, Iniesta pulls even with Navas, passes him the ball and Navas scores. In the second, Iniesta shoots, the GK saves, Navas puts away the rebound.Are you really saying the first is a goal and the second is free kick for Croatia?

If Iniesta has pulled even on the shot - then it is a goal off the rebound.

 

[ffldrew]

Carroll buries that one

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Nice break by Ukraine there, good save by Woz to keep it level.

 

[ffldrew]

Walcott has to come on at half

 

[Christo]

Walcott has to come on at half

They could pull Milner off and play with 10 and be in better shape.

 

[NewlyRetired]

One of my favorite MLS players just got his US Citizenship.

Via a couple of tweets, first by Joshua Mayers of the Seattle Times and then confirmed by Matt Gaschk from the front office, we learn that Osvaldo Alonso has gained his United States citizenship. This really doesn't have a Sounders roster impact, since he's had a green card for a number of years now and hasn't taken up an international slot, but given that he's a Cuban refugee I'm sure it's a special achievement for him personally.There's bound to be questions about his eligibility for the US national team, given that he's one of the best defensive midfielders in the league and we've seen a comparable player in Kyle Beckerman make the team. However, he played for the Cuba national team in the Gold Cup in 2007 (in fact, it was during that tournament that he defected by separating from the team at a Walmart in Houston), so it would seem he is cap-tied. However, there's a relevant section in Article 18 of the FIFA statutes:If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international match in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 permanentlyloses the nationality of that country without his consent or againsthis will due to a decision by a government authority, he may request permission to play for another Association whose nationality he already has or has acquired.So if his Cuban citizenship was rescinded by Cuba after defection, he may have a case to gain eligibility for the USMNT.

 

[Sebowski]

Carroll buries that one

its funny because its true.

 

[Christo]

ROONEY!!11111

 

[Good Posting Judge]

ROONEY!!11111

Anybody would've buried that one.

Spoiler

Except Torres.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

Neither.

First one was so close that you couldn't argue with the call either way IMO. Second was clearly on. And the only time I've ever seen player who's offside, but not receiving the ball flagged is if there's a shot and he's near the keeper.

my linkHere is a screen shot of the first pass - Navas was clearly in an off-side position - its not close.

You can debate whether it was an off-side foul, based on whether you consider Navas in the play - but he is very clearly in an off-side position when the ball is played to Ineista.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Croatia robbed! Clear penalty on that last corner. Clear offsides on Spain's goal.

On the thru-ball, or Ineista's pass over to Navas?

Both

Neither.

First one was so close that you couldn't argue with the call either way IMO. Second was clearly on. And the only time I've ever seen player who's offside, but not receiving the ball flagged is if there's a shot and he's near the keeper.

my linkHere is a screen shot of the first pass - Navas was clearly in an off-side position - its not close.

You can debate whether it was an off-side foul, based on whether you consider Navas in the play - but he is very clearly in an off-side position when the ball is played to Ineista.

What's the letter of the law re: how much of a player's body has to be offsides to be ruled offsides? Not trying to lawyer you here, just genuinely curious.

 

[Eephus]

Ibra!!!!!

 

[Sinn Fein]

Iniesta Pass to Navas

Just for good measure - here is the pass to naves - equally clear that Navas was in an on-side position for this pass.

 

[NewlyRetired]

You have to go all the way back to 1988 (when there were only 8 teams and half the first round games) to find a first round with no 0-0 games.

 

[Eephus]

You have to go all the way back to 1988 (when there were only 8 teams and half the first round games) to find a first round with no 0-0 games.

Thanks for jinxing the final

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

You can debate whether it was an off-side foul, based on whether you consider Navas in the play - but he is very clearly in an off-side position when the ball is played to Ineista.

I wasn't arguing about Navas on the first pass, as it's something that is almost never called. My comment was referring to the two on the end of the passes.ETA: thanks for posting that still of the first pass as well -- it's not as close as I thought. Seems pretty clear that both passes were good if you don't make the call against Navas on the first pass.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The weekend games seem a bit more interesting than the Thurs / Friday games, but I don't think I'll be missing any of these live from here on out.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

England/Italy should be fun.

 

[Deamon]

England/Italy should be fun.

Who wins this one? Hows the matchup look? As an italy fan id rather face england then france I think

 

[CletiusMaximus]

England/Italy should be fun.

Who wins this one? Hows the matchup look? As an italy fan id rather face england then france I think

Early line is nearly a pick em, with Italy + 160, England + 175 (90 min) and a draw after regulation at + 220.

 

[Sebowski]

I'll take Italy easy.

 

[NewlyRetired]

EA SPORTS FIFA (@EASPORTSFIFA)

6/19/12 5:33 PM

BREAKING: #Italy's rock of a centre-back Giorgio Chiellini is ruled out for Sunday's quarter-final against #England! #Euro2012

 

[Sebowski]

EA SPORTS FIFA (@EASPORTSFIFA)6/19/12 5:33 PMBREAKING: #Italy's rock of a centre-back Giorgio Chiellini is ruled out for Sunday's quarter-final against #England! #Euro2012

 

[The Gator]

I'll take Italy easy.

profile picture bet?