El Floppo
Footballguy
Good question- as far as I knew, he was back with Villa.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
- Start date
Eephus
Footballguy
I'm still giving Timmy Chandler the benefit of the doubt but I'm realistic about both his intentions and ability
charvik
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Steven Goff reporting that the away qualifier in Jamaica may have been picked up by beIn Sports!
Channel is active on both Direct TV and DISH in HD.
Sweet if this comes true. I was not looking forward to another horrible feed watching the game streaming.
Channel is active on both Direct TV and DISH in HD.
Sweet if this comes true. I was not looking forward to another horrible feed watching the game streaming.
Eephus
Footballguy
My mistake. I remember reading this summer that he was loaned out right after signing an extension with Villa but that was the rumored move to LA Chivas that was never finalized.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This would have been funnier if it was NY but still fun to watch no matter what
youtu.be/HBS7r9XSTGg
youtu.be/HBS7r9XSTGg
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Yeah, I figure if Yanks Abroad won't mention him, neither will I
I do think Klinsmann will try one more time, maybe during the two qualifiers coming up.
El Floppo
Footballguy
the play-by-play at some point... "ich bein eine scahftedn achteung baby ... in das American Football League..."
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El Floppo
Footballguy
I've given up on him. Hands washed.Yeah, I figure if Yanks Abroad won't mention him, neither will I
Part 4 of 4 – bottom dwellars, three are going down.
15- West Brom
Part of me really wants to put this team higher. I think it’s the part blinded by the Lukaku loan and watching him blossom into a star, alongside another nice striker in Odemwingle. But, when I look around the rest of the team, I sadly don’t see enough quality to make this work, and I think 15th might be optimistic. Another team with a new manager, I just don’t see enough in the midfield and especially defense for this team to get many points against tougher opponents. But, they should be able to beat a few teams I think will struggle. I do like their strikers and their wingers. Ben Foster may be a slight improvement in goal, but not enough. They’ll take 15th and like it.
16- Southampton
I’d very much like to see the Saints be the feel good story of 2012-2013. They play a very pleasing game of soccer and have a bit of talent in them. If nothing else, Rickie Lambert can score, and keep an eye on Adam Lallana as he has quite a bit of quality play in him. But, as with most newly promoted teams, they will not have the depth up and down the field just yet as other teams, so they may need big efforts to avoid relegation.
17 – West Ham
Uh oh, this means, the next three are going to be sent down, and lo and behold I’m keeping the Hammers up. I actually think it’s good for the EPL to have a strong and storied side kept up, and one with money will help for sure. Big Sam is back at the top level, and his side will need a bit of work, but I think they can make this happen and stay up for a spell. Gone, are most of their better known (and obviously better) players who jumped off when the team got relegated, but back are some familiar faces, Carlton Cole and Mark Noble…and then you have Nolan and Taylor and Diame with premier league experience. Their midfield is quite experienced for sure, so all of these guys will want to stick around at the top level, but their defense may be an issue. Hammers will try to fight it out every game, keep it close, may not be the most impressive soccer played at any of their matches, but, a signing here, a transfer there, I think they stick around another season.
18- Swansea City
Last year’s feel good story, gonna need a huge season to stick around again in my eyes. Just not enough quality out there to be there match in and match out and how much longer can Vrom stand on his head? They did bring in a few players in the offseason to hopefully bolster their quality, but I don’t think it will be nearly enough. Michu, Sinclair gonna have to play some remarkable soccer to make up for their lack of scoring threats, I think you’ll see exactly what you saw last year, Swansea keeping a tight form, trying to keep teams from getting the ball into dangerous positions, trying to make their chances off the counter, and lulling the other team to sleep. I don’t blame them one bit, I just think overall quality will win out in the end.
19- Wigan
They needed a miracle to survive relegation after the first half last year, and sure enough, here they are again. In fact, they played remarkably better the second half of the year, I mean, look at their results:
Mar 11 FT Norwich City 1-1 Wigan Athletic
Mar 17 FT Wigan Athletic 1-1 West Bromwich Albion
Mar 24 FT Liverpool 1-2 Wigan Athletic
Mar 31 FT Wigan Athletic 2-0 Stoke City
Apr 7 FT Chelsea 2-1 Wigan Athletic
Apr 11 FT Wigan Athletic 1-0 Manchester United
Apr 16 FT Arsenal 1-2 Wigan Athletic
Apr 21 FT Fulham 2-1 Wigan Athletic
Apr 28 FT Wigan Athletic 4-0 Newcastle United
May 7 FT Blackburn Rovers 0-1 Wigan Athletic
May 13 FT Wigan Athletic 3-2 Wolverhampton Wanderers
23 of their last possible 33 points. But, I just don’t see that happening again. Di Santo and Moses linked up beautifully at times last year, but I’m going to fall back on my old reliable, not enough depth, not enough quality up and down the field. Martinez is a nice manager, will get a shot at a bigger club, it’s not there for him at Wigan.
20- Reading
To be perfectly honest, I did not see much of Reading last year, and this team is completely different than any remnants of years gone by premier league Reading teams. They do have a few guys that have kicked around, Guthrie, Pogrenbyak, Shorey, ….but all in all, I think by most accounts, this team will be the least talented out there on every match and points will be extremely tough to come by.
15- West Brom
Part of me really wants to put this team higher. I think it’s the part blinded by the Lukaku loan and watching him blossom into a star, alongside another nice striker in Odemwingle. But, when I look around the rest of the team, I sadly don’t see enough quality to make this work, and I think 15th might be optimistic. Another team with a new manager, I just don’t see enough in the midfield and especially defense for this team to get many points against tougher opponents. But, they should be able to beat a few teams I think will struggle. I do like their strikers and their wingers. Ben Foster may be a slight improvement in goal, but not enough. They’ll take 15th and like it.
16- Southampton
I’d very much like to see the Saints be the feel good story of 2012-2013. They play a very pleasing game of soccer and have a bit of talent in them. If nothing else, Rickie Lambert can score, and keep an eye on Adam Lallana as he has quite a bit of quality play in him. But, as with most newly promoted teams, they will not have the depth up and down the field just yet as other teams, so they may need big efforts to avoid relegation.
17 – West Ham
Uh oh, this means, the next three are going to be sent down, and lo and behold I’m keeping the Hammers up. I actually think it’s good for the EPL to have a strong and storied side kept up, and one with money will help for sure. Big Sam is back at the top level, and his side will need a bit of work, but I think they can make this happen and stay up for a spell. Gone, are most of their better known (and obviously better) players who jumped off when the team got relegated, but back are some familiar faces, Carlton Cole and Mark Noble…and then you have Nolan and Taylor and Diame with premier league experience. Their midfield is quite experienced for sure, so all of these guys will want to stick around at the top level, but their defense may be an issue. Hammers will try to fight it out every game, keep it close, may not be the most impressive soccer played at any of their matches, but, a signing here, a transfer there, I think they stick around another season.
18- Swansea City
Last year’s feel good story, gonna need a huge season to stick around again in my eyes. Just not enough quality out there to be there match in and match out and how much longer can Vrom stand on his head? They did bring in a few players in the offseason to hopefully bolster their quality, but I don’t think it will be nearly enough. Michu, Sinclair gonna have to play some remarkable soccer to make up for their lack of scoring threats, I think you’ll see exactly what you saw last year, Swansea keeping a tight form, trying to keep teams from getting the ball into dangerous positions, trying to make their chances off the counter, and lulling the other team to sleep. I don’t blame them one bit, I just think overall quality will win out in the end.
19- Wigan
They needed a miracle to survive relegation after the first half last year, and sure enough, here they are again. In fact, they played remarkably better the second half of the year, I mean, look at their results:
Mar 11 FT Norwich City 1-1 Wigan Athletic
Mar 17 FT Wigan Athletic 1-1 West Bromwich Albion
Mar 24 FT Liverpool 1-2 Wigan Athletic
Mar 31 FT Wigan Athletic 2-0 Stoke City
Apr 7 FT Chelsea 2-1 Wigan Athletic
Apr 11 FT Wigan Athletic 1-0 Manchester United
Apr 16 FT Arsenal 1-2 Wigan Athletic
Apr 21 FT Fulham 2-1 Wigan Athletic
Apr 28 FT Wigan Athletic 4-0 Newcastle United
May 7 FT Blackburn Rovers 0-1 Wigan Athletic
May 13 FT Wigan Athletic 3-2 Wolverhampton Wanderers
23 of their last possible 33 points. But, I just don’t see that happening again. Di Santo and Moses linked up beautifully at times last year, but I’m going to fall back on my old reliable, not enough depth, not enough quality up and down the field. Martinez is a nice manager, will get a shot at a bigger club, it’s not there for him at Wigan.
20- Reading
To be perfectly honest, I did not see much of Reading last year, and this team is completely different than any remnants of years gone by premier league Reading teams. They do have a few guys that have kicked around, Guthrie, Pogrenbyak, Shorey, ….but all in all, I think by most accounts, this team will be the least talented out there on every match and points will be extremely tough to come by.
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GoFishTN
Footballguy
This, I agree with.
Okay, no real time for writeups on Championship sides and I'll tackle only top 10 of Serie A tomorrow....
But, here are my choice for promotion next year:
Leicester to win it
Birmingham City and Leeds to get promoted
It's very difficult to gauge how this goes so early, as some teams with more quality like Bolton and Blackpool will have key players plucked away from them. I do like Leicester quite a bit though. Super long shot potential Sheffield Wednesday.
If Peterbrough is playing a game, I'll be watching it, goals galore when they are playing.
But, here are my choice for promotion next year:
Leicester to win it
Birmingham City and Leeds to get promoted
It's very difficult to gauge how this goes so early, as some teams with more quality like Bolton and Blackpool will have key players plucked away from them. I do like Leicester quite a bit though. Super long shot potential Sheffield Wednesday.
If Peterbrough is playing a game, I'll be watching it, goals galore when they are playing.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If this happens, this will be second NBA owner this year that bought an MLS team. It would also finally reduce AEG down to just one team after almost single handedly carrying the league in the early 2000's.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I still want the NJ Nets' new owner... oh- sorry- the Brooklyn Nets... to pony up and buy the only NYC MLS team.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I think that would be so cool. I am sure he has been contacted. There will be no shortage of suitors if they actually build the stadium, which could still be years away from the most recent news.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
if that's true.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Philip Anschutz MLS ownership through the years
1996: LA, Colorado
1997: LA, Colorado
1998: LA, Colorado, Chicago
1999: LA, Colorado, Chicago
2000: LA, Colorado, Chicago
2001: LA, Colorado, Chicago, NY, DC
2002: LA, Colorado, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ Maxes out at owning 60% of league
2003: LA, Colorado, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ
2004: LA, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ
2005: LA, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ
2006: LA, Chicago, DC, Houston (moved from SJ)
2007: LA, Houston
2008: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2009: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2010: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2011: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2012: LA, 1/2 of Houston*
In negotiations to sell. If they divest Houston they go from owning 60% of the league in 2002, to owning a little over 5% of the league.
Every player in the league today owes his check to Anschutz because with out him the league would have died before getting the chance to find a foot hold to grow.
St Phil indeed
1996: LA, Colorado
1997: LA, Colorado
1998: LA, Colorado, Chicago
1999: LA, Colorado, Chicago
2000: LA, Colorado, Chicago
2001: LA, Colorado, Chicago, NY, DC
2002: LA, Colorado, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ Maxes out at owning 60% of league
2003: LA, Colorado, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ
2004: LA, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ
2005: LA, Chicago, NY, DC, SJ
2006: LA, Chicago, DC, Houston (moved from SJ)
2007: LA, Houston
2008: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2009: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2010: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2011: LA, 1/2 of Houston
2012: LA, 1/2 of Houston*
In negotiations to sell. If they divest Houston they go from owning 60% of the league in 2002, to owning a little over 5% of the league.
Every player in the league today owes his check to Anschutz because with out him the league would have died before getting the chance to find a foot hold to grow.
St Phil indeed
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El Floppo
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
I wasn't happy about the way AEG handled the Clashquakes move but the growth of purpose-built venues has been a huge part of the league's success.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't think anyone liked the move at the time.Looking back though in hindsight, I am not sure it could have worked out better for the league. Not only did Houston establish itself quickly in the Houston area, the Quakes fans were smart enough to go to court to make sure the colors, names and history remained with the city in the feint hope that they would be resurrected. And sure enough not only did they come back to life, they now are going to be building their own stadium as well, something AEG was not able to do.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Earthquakes_StadiumI wasn't happy about the way AEG handled the Clashquakes move but the growth of purpose-built venues has been a huge part of the league's success.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
That team can suck it - they play in NJ but won't say so. Screw 'em.-QG
The Z Machine
Footballguy
At least my boys turned Kun into Falcao.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
4.5 Million on Univision800k on ESPN2http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/08/12/usa-vs-mexico-soccer-friendly-averaged-4-5-million-viewers-on-univision-9-4-million-watched-at-least-part-of-match/100307/
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
You talking about the Giants or the Jets?
800k on ESPN2 
Rustoleum
Footballguy
Pretty much all of my exposure to Howard has been through watching the USMNT. I watch very little soccer other than World Cup. maybe a little EPL here and there when channel surfing.A constant part of the commentary has always been how awesome he is, but the footage just seemedto be him #####ing at the defense whenever anything gets near the box, and I don't recall seeing a ton of clean scoresheets in that time either. Granted, for years the US was prone to spectacular defensive breakdowns that resulted in quick goals, so he was justified in looking pissed off all the time, but if the end result really wasn't going to change whether he was in goal or not, then I felt that he really wasn't all that, and the hype was just to make US fans think we were elite at t he most visible position to a cause (edit: casual damn iPad autocorrect) fan, since everywhere else on the pitch we were wayyy behind the skill level of most of the rest of the soccer playing world.Dunno. Maybe because I've mostly only seen him play, and the US lacked finishers to pressure opposing goalkeepers for much of my viewing lifetime, I haven't truly seen how much better he is than other international keepers. That said, those two saves were awesome, and he doesn't make those stupid faces like that English guy, so I am revisiting my previous opinion.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
So you only saw him play a handful of games and came to your opinion about him being over-rated. And now you've seen him make a couple of great saves and are revisiting.Well- ok, then.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
To be fair to him, if he's only mostly watching USMNT games, he's only getting the USMNT perspective on things. ESPN and other US media has been pretty favorable for Howard over the past few years, and rightly so because he's been one of the team's best players. If you're only listening to the US commentators, it's easy to get the impression that he's a top 5-10 GK in the world or something.The reality is that he's an good GK playing for an above-average club team in one of the world's best leagues. I wouldn't say top 10, but I think he'd probably crack the top 25/30, no? I don't really want to go team-by-team and compare him to other GKs, just speculation on my part here.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I am terrible at guessing where a player lands world wide, and I think it is especially tough with keepers.The one thing I am certain, whether it be club or country, Howard is SIGNIFICANTLY closer to being the best keeper in the world than any of our field players are being the best at what they do. While Howard may not be as good as Buffon for example, he is certainly eons close to Buffon's talent than say Dempsey is to Messi, or Donovan is to CRo.
charvik
Footballguy
Extremely doubtful IMO. I think people are over valuing him due to his USMNT performance/presence.
I think you'd be very, very hard pressed to come up with 25 keepers who are more highly regarded than Howard. Howard has consistently started in a top 3 league for a decade. For most of his time at Everton, he's been regarded as a top 5 EPL keeper. Below Van der Sar and probably Reina consistently, sure. At times below Cech (who has been very, very inconsistent at times for Chelsea). Maybe behind Friedel at times. Now, he's rated below Hart, but Hart has a long way to go to have a career like Howard's. Howard's club career has been at least as good as Shea Given's.Extrapolating to other leagues, the list of obviously better keepers isn't that big. St. Iker and Buffon certainly. Probably Valdes, Steklenberg and Julio Cesar. Guys like Lloris and Neuer are better now, but after them you're getting to guys like Muslera and Hamdonovich who I'd argue are probably rated just about in line with Howard.'charvik said:
Howard's good, but I tend to agree with Charvik that his performance on USMNT has overvalued his perceived worth. He's good, I'd rank him mid pack in EPL, and between 20-30 in the world seems about right.
keepers in EPL I'd definitely value over him:
Hart
Reina
Vrom
Cech
Krul
I'd rank him right in that next 6-10 pack, along with the likes DeGea (who is signficantly younger, so I'd value higher), Scheszny, Friedel, etc...
There are plenty of other keepers around the world I'd choose before Howard, but he's still pretty good.
keepers in EPL I'd definitely value over him:
Hart
Reina
Vrom
Cech
Krul
I'd rank him right in that next 6-10 pack, along with the likes DeGea (who is signficantly younger, so I'd value higher), Scheszny, Friedel, etc...
There are plenty of other keepers around the world I'd choose before Howard, but he's still pretty good.
Bonzai
Footballguy
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/5?cc=5901
Pretty good article over at ESPN by the zonalmarking guy about United. Something like this would be scary:
RVP/Young........Rooney/RVP............Nani/Welbeck
........................Kagawa/Rooney
...............Carrick..........Anderson/Clevery
Evra..........Vidic............Ferdinand.........Valencia
Pretty good article over at ESPN by the zonalmarking guy about United. Something like this would be scary:
RVP/Young........Rooney/RVP............Nani/Welbeck
........................Kagawa/Rooney
...............Carrick..........Anderson/Clevery
Evra..........Vidic............Ferdinand.........Valencia
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
As I've noted on here I am not an EPL fan, but I've decided to give it a little bit of a try this season. After attending an Iron Maiden concert last month I was reading a bio on Steve Harris and saw that he was a big West Ham supporter, so I'm going to try and follow them this season. It may be a stupid reason to pick a club, but there it is. The Bobby Moore connection could have been a deal breaker, but the '66 World Cup was a long time ago.
So, "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles"
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Good to have scoobygang back
thumbup
thumbup
charvik
Footballguy
Well, I was talking about now, not how he's been ranked over his career.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I think the movie "Green Street Hooligans" is about West Ham supporters. They have a decent rivalry with Chels and Spurs but the main enemy is hated Millwall. They've had some vicious gang battles in recent years.As I've noted on here I am not an EPL fan, but I've decided to give it a little bit of a try this season. After attending an Iron Maiden concert last month I was reading a bio on Steve Harris and saw that he was a big West Ham supporter, so I'm going to try and follow them this season. It may be a stupid reason to pick a club, but there it is. The Bobby Moore connection could have been a deal breaker, but the '66 World Cup was a long time ago.
So, "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles"
I think this is a matter of defining your terms. Vorm and Krul were considered to have had better 2011/2012 seasons than Howard, but Howard had a better 2011/2012 season than Reina (who had his worst season in the EPL). At this point, Vorm and Krul are major league one-year wonders. An interesting statistical analysis of the 2011/2012 EPL season for keepers can be found here http://thepowerofgoals.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/epls-best-keeperend-of-season-version.html. Howard falls a bit outside the Top 5 among keepers who saw significant action (which I'd define as 100 shots or more), but ahead of guys like Cech, Reina, Krul, and (way ahead of) Scheszny.
In terms of shot stopping, De Gea looks great, reinforcing the impression that he's a great shot stopper who struggles at other aspects such as handling crosses and who probably was unfairly tainted by some memorable errors in big spots. Obviously, shot stopping is only one skill, and it's probably highly team dependent.
charvik
Footballguy
Yeah, definitely a matter of the terms. For me, I would look at who I would prefer to be my goal keeper if I want to win today. If that's the criteria, I have many ahead of Howard.Maybe he would be one of the many guys I would consider around 25/30, but he's not a lock for that IMHO. There are good keepers in other leagues that won't get the same press as Howard gets in the US/EPL.
charvik
Footballguy
Seems like the EPL rights are up for bid soon:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1135765/la-liga,-serie-a-vanish-for-many-u.s.-viewers?cc=5901I really hope beIn Sport will become available on cable providers soon. It's bad enough losing La Liga and Serie A, if I lose EPL I'd be forced to make a switch (which I would hate). Sounds like only Bundesliga will remain on GolTV, if I read this correctly.
This is the way they should go. Imagine what it could look like if they inverted the midfield triangle like Barcelona does:Nani.............RVP............Welbeck......Kagawa.......Rooney..........................Carrick..........Evra..........Vidic............Ferdinand.........ValenciaScary. The interplay between RVP dropping as a false nine and Rooney making runs into that space would be devestating.
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Bonzai
Footballguy
You may be onto something there...
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Isn't this what Charvik disagreed with, though? I said he'd be in the 20-25-30 range, and Charvik disagreed...
charvik
Footballguy
it's probably not really worth discussing... I'd have him just outside the top 30, you have him just inside.Isn't this what Charvik disagreed with, though? I said he'd be in the 20-25-30 range, and Charvik disagreed...
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Sure, and it's obviously not an exact thing. I basically did exactly what WetScooby (is that who this is? I was wondering...) did here and figured maybe 25th-30th without doing any real research:it's probably not really worth discussing... I'd have him just outside the top 30, you have him just inside.Isn't this what Charvik disagreed with, though? I said he'd be in the 20-25-30 range, and Charvik disagreed...
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