***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I think MLS is actually kind of hard to resist at the top right now. I know that an LA Galaxy game or a Sounders game is likely to be more entertaining than a West Brom game. Part of that is because the best MLS teams seem to be bringing back strike partnerships and playing top offensive players close together generates chances and exciting combination play. Watching Deuce and Martins or Keane and Zardes play off each other is very entertaining, IMO.

If there's one thing that still frustrates me about MLS, it's artificial turf, but even that's at its worst early in the season. I don't see nearly as many bad touches in Seattle or Portland game now as I was seeing in March and April.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Why do you confuse being not interested in MLS for the many reasons that have been posted above, with hate for MLS? (Serious question)

When some one is not interested in an item, you typically don't bash it or belittle it at every opportunity. One typically just ignores it if uninterested.

People who bash something typically have stronger emotions tied to it than being just uninterested.

Just my opinion.

To be fair, this whole conversation began when you took offense to me saying the league was uninteresting. That's it. You're saying here that not being interested in something is okay, just so long as you don't say that, because saying that you're not interested in it is bashing it. Do you see my point?

 

[NewlyRetired]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Why do you confuse being not interested in MLS for the many reasons that have been posted above, with hate for MLS? (Serious question)

When some one is not interested in an item, you typically don't bash it or belittle it at every opportunity. One typically just ignores it if uninterested.

People who bash something typically have stronger emotions tied to it than being just uninterested.

Just my opinion.

To be fair, this whole conversation began when you took offense to me saying the league was uninteresting. That's it. You're saying here that not being interested in something is okay, just so long as you don't say that, because saying that you're not interested in it is bashing it. Do you see my point?

No, I don't see your point at all.

I did not take any offense to you saying the league was uninteresting. That is your opinion. There can be no offense taken.

You posted your story and I gave my opinion on why people tore you a new ##### online. You still don't seem to comprehend that many people likely considered you a troll for responding to a question about the leagues logo the way you did.

But I have explained this to you like 4 times now and you obviously don't think you did anything wrong so lets just drop it.

You don't like MLS and you have made that clear through numerous posts. That is your opinion and no one can argue it.

 

[roadkill1292]

Indeed, I'd like them to be my league. And I'd pay even more attention if they gave any indication that moving in my direction was in the distant future. Instead, they're digging in their heels. I don't think they can pull that off, to be honest, but the attitude bugs me.

You don't think they can pull what off?

I don't think they can pull off the exclusive franchise model that is prevalent in this country and reach the big time -- in the long run. Like I've said before, I don't think they can control that as the market for footy grows in this country.

If you're gonna compete for stars and fill up those Big Houses, you're gonna have to compete for the top talent on terms it is used to dictating. You won't do it with drafts and salary caps.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Why do you confuse being not interested in MLS for the many reasons that have been posted above, with hate for MLS? (Serious question)

When some one is not interested in an item, you typically don't bash it or belittle it at every opportunity. One typically just ignores it if uninterested.

People who bash something typically have stronger emotions tied to it than being just uninterested.

Just my opinion.

To be fair, this whole conversation began when you took offense to me saying the league was uninteresting. That's it. You're saying here that not being interested in something is okay, just so long as you don't say that, because saying that you're not interested in it is bashing it. Do you see my point?

No, I don't see your point at all.

I did not take any offense to you saying the league was uninteresting. That is your opinion. There can be no offense taken.

You posted your story and I gave my opinion on why people tore you a new ##### online. You still don't seem to comprehend that many people likely considered you a troll for responding to a question about the leagues logo the way you did.

But I have explained this to you like 4 times now and you obviously don't think you did anything wrong so lets just drop it.

You don't like MLS and you have made that clear through numerous posts. That is your opinion and no one can argue it.

I would drop it if anything you just said was remotely true. I was asked my opinion, and I gave it. The question was specifically "What are your thoughts?" not "What are your thoughts, but only if you like MLS should you be allowed to have them." I also didn't troll anybody. I said specifically "As uninteresting as the league itself." That's it. That's all I have ever said about MLS. You, however, have taken such great offense to this obvious trolling that now I "don't like MLS and have made that clear through numerous posts". And you did take offense. It's obvious in every post you have made to me since then. And finally, no. I didn't do anything wrong. The one thing that you got right however, is that I am entitled to my opinion, just like you are. I'm not going to jump all over you every time you give it, either.

 

[NewlyRetired]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Why do you confuse being not interested in MLS for the many reasons that have been posted above, with hate for MLS? (Serious question)

When some one is not interested in an item, you typically don't bash it or belittle it at every opportunity. One typically just ignores it if uninterested.

People who bash something typically have stronger emotions tied to it than being just uninterested.

Just my opinion.

To be fair, this whole conversation began when you took offense to me saying the league was uninteresting. That's it. You're saying here that not being interested in something is okay, just so long as you don't say that, because saying that you're not interested in it is bashing it. Do you see my point?

No, I don't see your point at all.

I did not take any offense to you saying the league was uninteresting. That is your opinion. There can be no offense taken.

You posted your story and I gave my opinion on why people tore you a new ##### online. You still don't seem to comprehend that many people likely considered you a troll for responding to a question about the leagues logo the way you did.

But I have explained this to you like 4 times now and you obviously don't think you did anything wrong so lets just drop it.

You don't like MLS and you have made that clear through numerous posts. That is your opinion and no one can argue it.

I would drop it if anything you just said was remotely true. I was asked my opinion, and I gave it. The question was specifically "What are your thoughts?" not "What are your thoughts, but only if you like MLS should you be allowed to have them." I also didn't troll anybody. I said specifically "As uninteresting as the league itself." That's it. That's all I have ever said about MLS. You, however, have taken such great offense to this obvious trolling that now I "don't like MLS and have made that clear through numerous posts". And you did take offense. It's obvious in every post you have made to me since then. And finally, no. I didn't do anything wrong. The one thing that you got right however, is that I am entitled to my opinion, just like you are. I'm not going to jump all over you every time you give it, either.

Excellent. Hope that makes you feel better but in the end I took no offense.

I won't bother responding to you anymore since it appears you only want validation of your opinion.

 

[El Floppo]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Jesus Christ, does anyone really "hate" the MLS? Is finding something boring or dull tantamount to hating it? I'm not going to go down to the Earthquakes stadium and throw tomatoes at it, or even write ####ty things on their facebook page. I'm apathetic towards it. As are many other "Euro-snobs." That's not hate.

There are haves and have-nots in every European league, due to some teams having a richer history, a bigger fanbase, rich owners, etc. That's a different ball of wax than the MLS having teams that are much closer to each other in terms of their "natural resources", and playing favorites. MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany. Yet the MLS mucks it up.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Jesus Christ, does anyone really "hate" the MLS? Is finding something boring or dull tantamount to hating it? I'm not going to go down to the Earthquakes stadium and throw tomatoes at it, or even write ####ty things on their facebook page. I'm apathetic towards it. As are many other "Euro-snobs." That's not hate.

There are haves and have-nots in every European league, due to some teams having a richer history, a bigger fanbase, rich owners, etc. That's a different ball of wax than the MLS having teams that are much closer to each other in terms of their "natural resources", and playing favorites. MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany. Yet the MLS mucks it up.

Hello, exactly!!!

 

[NewlyRetired]

Indeed, I'd like them to be my league. And I'd pay even more attention if they gave any indication that moving in my direction was in the distant future. Instead, they're digging in their heels. I don't think they can pull that off, to be honest, but the attitude bugs me.

You don't think they can pull what off?

I don't think they can pull off the exclusive franchise model that is prevalent in this country and reach the big time -- in the long run. Like I've said before, I don't think they can control that as the market for footy grows in this country.If you're gonna compete for stars and fill up those Big Houses, you're gonna have to compete for the top talent on terms it is used to dictating. You won't do it with drafts and salary caps.

I agree 100%.

But contrary to what they say publicly, I believe the people who own the league do not really think they will ever reach the heights of the top Euro leagues. If they did they would not still be building smaller stadiums imo.

If I had to guess they are probably just looking for MLS to continue its march toward decent profitability without taking on a ton of risk.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

 

[El Floppo]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Jesus Christ, does anyone really "hate" the MLS? Is finding something boring or dull tantamount to hating it? I'm not going to go down to the Earthquakes stadium and throw tomatoes at it, or even write ####ty things on their facebook page. I'm apathetic towards it. As are many other "Euro-snobs." That's not hate.

There are haves and have-nots in every European league, due to some teams having a richer history, a bigger fanbase, rich owners, etc. That's a different ball of wax than the MLS having teams that are much closer to each other in terms of their "natural resources", and playing favorites. MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany. Yet the MLS mucks it up.

Hello, exactly!!!

other than the posting #### on an MLS chat-room thing.

 

[NewlyRetired]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

That was my whole point. But he still thinks the way he answered was perfectly fine so not much you can do.

 

[El Floppo]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

It woudn't bunch my thongs... but most typical internets nutjobs who post to sports sites? that would surprise you? when was the last time you went into the Shark Pool?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Jesus Christ, does anyone really "hate" the MLS? Is finding something boring or dull tantamount to hating it? I'm not going to go down to the Earthquakes stadium and throw tomatoes at it, or even write ####ty things on their facebook page. I'm apathetic towards it. As are many other "Euro-snobs." That's not hate.

There are haves and have-nots in every European league, due to some teams having a richer history, a bigger fanbase, rich owners, etc. That's a different ball of wax than the MLS having teams that are much closer to each other in terms of their "natural resources", and playing favorites. MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany. Yet the MLS mucks it up.

I think what Andy is getting at is people who use goofy reasons to justify their dislike of MLS. Let's take two statements:

"I don't enjoy MLS because I like to watch the best players in the world, and the quality of play within the league is not to the standard that I can see watching the European leagues."

"I don't enjoy MLS because they don't have promotion/relegation and because their player allocation rules are byzantine."

The first statement is a more logical statement than the second. No league that needed to attract multiple billionaire owners right now would choose a promotion/relegation system. That's an accident of history in Europe from a time when the leagues were not primarily money-making entities. And the transfer/work permit, etc. allocation rules in European leagues are plenty byzantine in their own right.

 

[NewlyRetired]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Jesus Christ, does anyone really "hate" the MLS? Is finding something boring or dull tantamount to hating it?.

Yeah, plenty of people hate the league. Else you would not find so many people trolling and bashing it.

Hate just means a strong dislike. I think plenty of people have a strong dislike for MLS for many reasons (some concrete and understandable and some hypocritical, imo).

 

[SmoovySmoov]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

It woudn't bunch my thongs... but most typical internets nutjobs who post to sports sites? that would surprise you? when was the last time you went into the Shark Pool?

I don't. As previously mentioned, I gave up fantasy football last year after commishing three leagues for 13 years. This thread is basically the only reason I still come here. I see your point to an extent, but I agree with Truck. "Being not interested in" doesn't equal hate. And even though that's the only time I have ever commented on MLS, to NewlyRetired, I'm a hater who continually posts hate on the league that I should be supporting because 'Murika!

 

[Tom Hagen]

The guys claiming MLS is uninteresting obviously haven't seen the new logo. :gamechanger:

 

[NewlyRetired]

So if we change the word "hate", to "dislike for many reasons", that is better? I am ok with that if people are taking some odd offense at the word hate.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The guys claiming MLS is uninteresting obviously haven't seen the new logo. :gamechanger:

It is all about the white space.

 

[El Floppo]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

It woudn't bunch my thongs... but most typical internets nutjobs who post to sports sites? that would surprise you? when was the last time you went into the Shark Pool?

I don't. As previously mentioned, I gave up fantasy football last year after commishing three leagues for 13 years. This thread is basically the only reason I still come here. I see your point to an extent, but I agree with Truck. "Being not interested in" doesn't equal hate. And even though that's the only time I have ever commented on MLS, to NewlyRetired, I'm a hater who continually posts hate on the league that I should be supporting because 'Murika!

I was hoping you'd been in the SP... because god knows I'm not going near that place.

But people are freaking weird... especially internet board-posting sports people. My weirdness? among others, latching onto things that don't make sense to me and beating the horse into a pulp. We all keep saying the same things- and I think you might even be agreeing here... but then say that you don't see that what you said is trolling (I know you didn't mean it as such). it makes me want to keep trying to explain. IIRC, I spent the better part of 3 days arguing with somebody about Pablo Mastroeni's red card vs Italy in 06' because it sooo clearly could be seen as a red. I think andy's doing the same thing here.

I also think andy was replying more in general to Red's first post- which does come across as MLS bashing "rinky-dink league". than to any history with you... but.,.. internet-board-posting notebooking weirdness could be coming into play here. dunno.

 

[Tom Hagen]

I view MLS the same way I view college football. It's a fine product and many people love it, but I only have so much time in my life to watch football and I'd rather watch it being played at the highest possible level so I stick to the NFL. That doesn't mean I dislike it.

 

[El Floppo]

I view MLS the same way I view college football. It's a fine product and many people love it, but I only have so much time in my life to watch football and I'd rather watch it being played at the highest possible level so I stick to the NFL. That doesn't mean I dislike it.

ditto.

but I still make some time for MLS

oh! I watched an NFL game the other week... first one in years- SF vs CHI. just horrible. I'm a SF fan, and I still had to stop watching by half-time (even though they were dominating at that point).

 

[CBusAlex]

MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany.

This isn't really the case, though. Seattle sells 40,000+ tickets a game, while Chivas struggles to get even a quarter of that. The Galaxy have a local TV deal worth $5 million a year; Columbus makes nothing from theirs and even has to pay production costs just to get their games on the air. The salary cap/revenue sharing/single entity structure gives the smaller teams tremendous advantages in MLS as compared to their European counterparts. If the league adjusts or makes up rules on the fly to ensure that big stars get placed on certain teams... well, that's probably where they would have ended up without any interference.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

It woudn't bunch my thongs... but most typical internets nutjobs who post to sports sites? that would surprise you? when was the last time you went into the Shark Pool?

I don't. As previously mentioned, I gave up fantasy football last year after commishing three leagues for 13 years. This thread is basically the only reason I still come here. I see your point to an extent, but I agree with Truck. "Being not interested in" doesn't equal hate. And even though that's the only time I have ever commented on MLS, to NewlyRetired, I'm a hater who continually posts hate on the league that I should be supporting because 'Murika!

I was hoping you'd been in the SP... because god knows I'm not going near that place.

But people are freaking weird... especially internet board-posting sports people. My weirdness? among others, latching onto things that don't make sense to me and beating the horse into a pulp. We all keep saying the same things- and I think you might even be agreeing here... but then say that you don't see that what you said is trolling (I know you didn't mean it as such). it makes me want to keep trying to explain. IIRC, I spent the better part of 3 days arguing with somebody about Pablo Mastroeni's red card vs Italy in 06' because it sooo clearly could be seen as a red. I think andy's doing the same thing here.

I also think andy was replying more in general to Red's first post- which does come across as MLS bashing "rinky-dink league". than to any history with you... but.,.. internet-board-posting notebooking weirdness could be coming into play here. dunno.

I see your point. I can see how it can be construed as trolling, even though that was not my intention. The only reason I brought it up was because I then went on to explain, several times in fact, (and I'm talking about that Facebook post here, not this thread) that a) I'm glad the league is here, b) that is HAS made several notable improvements in 20 years, and finally c) that I wish that there was a team close to me so that I could be invested in it. It was the wave of "You suck because 'Murika and you need to move to England" posts even after I continually kept explaining my position that caused me to bring it here for discussion, only to be greeted with something similar.

But yes, I can see how my original comment might be construed as trolling to those who are really into the league. Once again, not my intention, and I don't hate the league.

 

[NewlyRetired]

MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany.

This isn't really the case, though. Seattle sells 40,000+ tickets a game, while Chivas struggles to get even a quarter of that. The Galaxy have a local TV deal worth $5 million a year; Columbus makes nothing from theirs and even has to pay production costs just to get their games on the air. The salary cap/revenue sharing/single entity structure gives the smaller teams tremendous advantages in MLS as compared to their European counterparts. If the league adjusts or makes up rules on the fly to ensure that big stars get placed on certain teams... well, that's probably where they would have ended up without any interference.

I think Forbes broke down the revenue difference between MLS teams a year or two ago and it was amazing how big an advantage some teams have over others financially.

There is most certainly have's and have not's in MLS.

The league do a decent job with the balancing rules so that a small club like Columbus or RSL could win the league which is rare in the big Euro countries but it would not surprise me if it became more difficult for smaller clubs going forward.

The variance of the playoffs will help the balance.

 

[The Gator]

I thought this was the soccer thread, why are we talking the MLS?

I KID

 

[NewlyRetired]

I thought this was the soccer thread, why are we talking the MLS?

I KID

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=305522&p=6357672

 

[roadkill1292]

Indeed, I'd like them to be my league. And I'd pay even more attention if they gave any indication that moving in my direction was in the distant future. Instead, they're digging in their heels. I don't think they can pull that off, to be honest, but the attitude bugs me.

You don't think they can pull what off?

I don't think they can pull off the exclusive franchise model that is prevalent in this country and reach the big time -- in the long run. Like I've said before, I don't think they can control that as the market for footy grows in this country.If you're gonna compete for stars and fill up those Big Houses, you're gonna have to compete for the top talent on terms it is used to dictating. You won't do it with drafts and salary caps.

I agree 100%.

But contrary to what they say publicly, I believe the people who own the league do not really think they will ever reach the heights of the top Euro leagues. If they did they would not still be building smaller stadiums imo.

If I had to guess they are probably just looking for MLS to continue its march toward decent profitability without taking on a ton of risk.

Sure, they may believe that. Somebody else might not, though, and that's why I don't think the people who own MLS franchises right now will have the last say on things.

 

[roadkill1292]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Jesus Christ, does anyone really "hate" the MLS? Is finding something boring or dull tantamount to hating it? I'm not going to go down to the Earthquakes stadium and throw tomatoes at it, or even write ####ty things on their facebook page. I'm apathetic towards it. As are many other "Euro-snobs." That's not hate.

There are haves and have-nots in every European league, due to some teams having a richer history, a bigger fanbase, rich owners, etc. That's a different ball of wax than the MLS having teams that are much closer to each other in terms of their "natural resources", and playing favorites. MLS teams are on a much more level playing field to begin with, thanks to there not being a whole lot of money involved, relative to England or Spain or Germany. Yet the MLS mucks it up.

I think what Andy is getting at is people who use goofy reasons to justify their dislike of MLS. Let's take two statements:

"I don't enjoy MLS because I like to watch the best players in the world, and the quality of play within the league is not to the standard that I can see watching the European leagues."

"I don't enjoy MLS because they don't have promotion/relegation and because their player allocation rules are byzantine."

The first statement is a more logical statement than the second. No league that needed to attract multiple billionaire owners right now would choose a promotion/relegation system. That's an accident of history in Europe from a time when the leagues were not primarily money-making entities. And the transfer/work permit, etc. allocation rules in European leagues are plenty byzantine in their own right.

Obviously I fall into the second statement camp, even while fully understanding and appreciating why MLS does what it does now. I find the accident-of-history system far more appealing than our domestic historically-for-profit systems, though, and if economic realities bar our domestic league from adopting a system I enjoy much more, then it will just have to motor along without me. Which I'm sure it will.

There's a principle involved here in my case that I'm only interested in compromising, not in surrendering.

 

[NewlyRetired]

If there's one thing that still frustrates me about MLS, it's artificial turf, but even that's at its worst early in the season. I don't see nearly as many bad touches in Seattle or Portland game now as I was seeing in March and April.

This is the worst part of the league for me. Ironically, where soccer is most popular in the league, the Pacific NW, that is where 75% of the turf fields reside (Portland, Seattle and Vancouver. NE is the 4th.)

With Portland and Seattle being on national tv so much, you get a lot of field turf games broadcast.

Portland has said they would go to grass if Portland State football ever moves out. I don't see Seattle ever getting grass sadly.

There are some rumors that Toronto might go back to field turf if the Argonauts move into the expanded stadium.

 

[The Gator]

I thought this was the soccer thread, why are we talking the MLS?

I KID

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=305522&p=6357672

Damn it tasker

 

[NewlyRetired]

I thought this was the soccer thread, why are we talking the MLS?

I KID

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=305522&p=6357672

Damn it tasker

And we are still hating disliking 7 years plus on . At least we have a consistent thread

 

[CletiusMaximus]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

I think the point is that you responded to a question about the new MLS logo with a gratuitous bash on the league. At least that's how I read your description of the event. What purpose does that serve other than to agitate and provoke a reaction?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

I think the point is that you responded to a question about the new MLS logo with a gratuitous bash on the league. At least that's how I read your description of the event. What purpose does that serve other than to agitate and provoke a reaction?

Our definitions of "gratuitous" differ gratuitously.

 

[El Floppo]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

It woudn't bunch my thongs... but most typical internets nutjobs who post to sports sites? that would surprise you? when was the last time you went into the Shark Pool?

I don't. As previously mentioned, I gave up fantasy football last year after commishing three leagues for 13 years. This thread is basically the only reason I still come here. I see your point to an extent, but I agree with Truck. "Being not interested in" doesn't equal hate. And even though that's the only time I have ever commented on MLS, to NewlyRetired, I'm a hater who continually posts hate on the league that I should be supporting because 'Murika!

I was hoping you'd been in the SP... because god knows I'm not going near that place.

But people are freaking weird... especially internet board-posting sports people. My weirdness? among others, latching onto things that don't make sense to me and beating the horse into a pulp. We all keep saying the same things- and I think you might even be agreeing here... but then say that you don't see that what you said is trolling (I know you didn't mean it as such). it makes me want to keep trying to explain. IIRC, I spent the better part of 3 days arguing with somebody about Pablo Mastroeni's red card vs Italy in 06' because it sooo clearly could be seen as a red. I think andy's doing the same thing here.

I also think andy was replying more in general to Red's first post- which does come across as MLS bashing "rinky-dink league". than to any history with you... but.,.. internet-board-posting notebooking weirdness could be coming into play here. dunno.

I see your point. I can see how it can be construed as trolling, even though that was not my intention. The only reason I brought it up was because I then went on to explain, several times in fact, (and I'm talking about that Facebook post here, not this thread) that a) I'm glad the league is here, b) that is HAS made several notable improvements in 20 years, and finally c) that I wish that there was a team close to me so that I could be invested in it. It was the wave of "You suck because 'Murika and you need to move to England" posts even after I continually kept explaining my position that caused me to bring it here for discussion, only to be greeted with something similar.

But yes, I can see how my original comment might be construed as trolling to those who are really into the league. Once again, not my intention, and I don't hate the league.

why do you hate america?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

so saying "As uninteresting as the league itself." on an MLS board that's discussing the branding change.... you can't conceive that many or most there would perceive it as trolling? Ok.

It was NBC Sports on Facebook, but yeah. "I hate MLS, and it sucks, and it's stupid." Totally understandable. Saying the league is uninteresting when asked what your thoughts are? Yeah, I'm not getting the furor.

It woudn't bunch my thongs... but most typical internets nutjobs who post to sports sites? that would surprise you? when was the last time you went into the Shark Pool?

I don't. As previously mentioned, I gave up fantasy football last year after commishing three leagues for 13 years. This thread is basically the only reason I still come here. I see your point to an extent, but I agree with Truck. "Being not interested in" doesn't equal hate. And even though that's the only time I have ever commented on MLS, to NewlyRetired, I'm a hater who continually posts hate on the league that I should be supporting because 'Murika!

I was hoping you'd been in the SP... because god knows I'm not going near that place.

But people are freaking weird... especially internet board-posting sports people. My weirdness? among others, latching onto things that don't make sense to me and beating the horse into a pulp. We all keep saying the same things- and I think you might even be agreeing here... but then say that you don't see that what you said is trolling (I know you didn't mean it as such). it makes me want to keep trying to explain. IIRC, I spent the better part of 3 days arguing with somebody about Pablo Mastroeni's red card vs Italy in 06' because it sooo clearly could be seen as a red. I think andy's doing the same thing here.

I also think andy was replying more in general to Red's first post- which does come across as MLS bashing "rinky-dink league". than to any history with you... but.,.. internet-board-posting notebooking weirdness could be coming into play here. dunno.

I see your point. I can see how it can be construed as trolling, even though that was not my intention. The only reason I brought it up was because I then went on to explain, several times in fact, (and I'm talking about that Facebook post here, not this thread) that a) I'm glad the league is here, b) that is HAS made several notable improvements in 20 years, and finally c) that I wish that there was a team close to me so that I could be invested in it. It was the wave of "You suck because 'Murika and you need to move to England" posts even after I continually kept explaining my position that caused me to bring it here for discussion, only to be greeted with something similar.

But yes, I can see how my original comment might be construed as trolling to those who are really into the league. Once again, not my intention, and I don't hate the league.

why do you hate america?

Because of it's ####ty soccer league.

Oh wait! Dammit, you tricked me there!!! Pretty sneaky, sis.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

 

[Moe.]

holy ####### #### fellas

 

[T Bell]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

 

[T Bell]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

It's just the current shtick among Gooners. I'm sure you're going to see some Archway propaganda during this weekend's NLD.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

It's just the current shtick among Gooners. I'm sure you're going to see some Archway propaganda during this weekend's NLD.

I must say, that while I will always be cautiously optimistic in any NLD - I am not really looking forward to this one...hoping for a reasonable scoreline - but I am afraid Spurs are going to roll Kaboul and Chiriches out at CB again, and it could get ugly. Hoping Gooners are a tad bit overconfident ...

 

[T Bell]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

It's just the current shtick among Gooners. I'm sure you're going to see some Archway propaganda during this weekend's NLD.

I must say, that while I will always be cautiously optimistic in any NLD - I am not really looking forward to this one...hoping for a reasonable scoreline - but I am afraid Spurs are going to roll Kaboul and Chiriches out at CB again, and it could get ugly. Hoping Gooners are a tad bit overconfident ...

The dirty secret about Arsenal is that they've played exactly zero really good matches this year aside from Villa. They're lucky to be unbeaten in the league frankly. I think this NLD is more up for grabs than you may think.

 

[Christo]

MLS is always going to come off as a rinky dink league until they make things fully competitive. They just look like they stack the deck for certain teams, and that completely blows. It doesn't make me as a fan want to get invested in the league.

"I would watch MLS if only it had the competitive balance of the European leagues," said no one ever.

The hypocrisy runs deep for the people who hate MLS.

Why do you confuse being not interested in MLS for the many reasons that have been posted above, with hate for MLS? (Serious question)

Indeed, I'd like them to be my league. And I'd pay even more attention if they gave any indication that moving in my direction was in the distant future. Instead, they're digging in their heels. I don't think they can pull that off, to be honest, but the attitude bugs me.

huh?

they're tap-dancing more than heel-digging.

choose not to like it because the quality is admittedly not as good as the top euro-leagues. the rest, I don't get.

I hate it because Chicago sucks.

 

[GoFishTN]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

It's just the current shtick among Gooners. I'm sure you're going to see some Archway propaganda during this weekend's NLD.

I must say, that while I will always be cautiously optimistic in any NLD - I am not really looking forward to this one...hoping for a reasonable scoreline - but I am afraid Spurs are going to roll Kaboul and Chiriches out at CB again, and it could get ugly. Hoping Gooners are a tad bit overconfident ...

 

[Christo]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

It's just the current shtick among Gooners. I'm sure you're going to see some Archway propaganda during this weekend's NLD.

I must say, that while I will always be cautiously optimistic in any NLD - I am not really looking forward to this one...hoping for a reasonable scoreline - but I am afraid Spurs are going to roll Kaboul and Chiriches out at CB again, and it could get ugly. Hoping Gooners are a tad bit overconfident ...

WTF is Vertonghen not starting?

 

[gianmarco]

I currently find this thread uninteresting. I don't hate it. It's just not at the caliber of some other threads here.

 

[Tom Hagen]

I currently find this thread uninteresting. I don't hate it. It's just not at the caliber of some other threads here.

Maybe we just need some rules to make it more interesting. i propose:

1. A Superdraft to determine who is allowed to post in here.

2. An allocation rule to determine who gets to post first

3. A cap on the number of posts allowed

4. A designated post (DP) where you can exceed the post cap referenced in #2

5. A discovery rule where we can find new posters to contribute that won't count against our post count.

6. A Generation FFA rules where posters that have posted before reaching age 18 are not subject to rule 1.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can someone shoot me a PM when this whole MLS pissing contest is over.

I'd like to get this thread back on track about my fantasy team, Spurs, and how ####ty Liverpool (and Arsenal, and ManUtd) are.

And how awesome Archway Sheet Metal is.

Those greedy ####ers. But can't say I blame them - may not like them, but if Lewis won't sell the club unless he gets an obscene price, I suppose Archway should hold out for their own obscene price.

It's just the current shtick among Gooners. I'm sure you're going to see some Archway propaganda during this weekend's NLD.

I must say, that while I will always be cautiously optimistic in any NLD - I am not really looking forward to this one...hoping for a reasonable scoreline - but I am afraid Spurs are going to roll Kaboul and Chiriches out at CB again, and it could get ugly. Hoping Gooners are a tad bit overconfident ...

WTF is Vertonghen not starting?

Hard to say - he should be starting, and I am hopeful he plays on Saturday, but he and Fazio started in the Cap1 Cup on wednesday, and Pochettino has been rotating the squad pretty heavily between mid-week and league games.

There is also something funky going on behind the scenes, all the reports from this summer were that Vertonghen had agreed to a new deal with Spurs - but now, all of a sudden he is not interested in signing the new deal. Some speculation that he has had a falling out with Pochettino - but honestly he has shown up and played well in the last two mid-week games, so I don't think he is sulking. He is saying the right things in the press - he is happy, just does not want to sign an extension, and still has 4 years on his current contract.

It may be that Spurs have decided to sell him in January, and are preparing for when he is not here - though I don't know where he can go that meets his objective of CL football, and not in some third-tier league. I doubt Levy will sell him to a PL club, but I think ManUtd were kicking the tires this summer, Barca was apparently interested, but their transfer ban should be in place now.

I have been holding out hope that Vertonghen and Fazio are first choice CBs and that playing them in mid-week games has only been done to get them acclimated to each other. We'll see tomorrow, but with Kaboul named club captain, it seems the coaches value him more than the fans, and that makes his pairing with Chiriches interesting to watch...