I can actually understand Fellaini over Mata as a sub. But I can't believe Mata wouldn't make them better as far as the starting 11 go.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (8 Viewers)
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Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
This Ghana-Ivory Coast PK shootout is crazy
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
That was a very strange game. 120 awful minutes followed by an absolutely crazy shootout.
Good for Ivory Coast. Not a fan of how they did it, but seems like they deserve to be African champs after some recent near misses.
Good for Ivory Coast. Not a fan of how they did it, but seems like they deserve to be African champs after some recent near misses.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
CIV spots Ghana a 2-0 lead in the shootout, Ghana then misses their next two. They each make their next 6, 8-8, keepers' turn to take PKs. Ivory Coast's keeper, who is the backup and has been struggling through the entire shootout with an injured leg, makes the save on Ghana's keeper, and then rockets home the winner. 9-8 Ivory Coast
Eephus
Footballguy
Missed the first 90 of the AFCON final due to a family emergency but saw extra time and the penalties. The live blog and recaps make it sound like I didn't miss much. It's pretty rare for great soccer to be played after 90 minutes and this was no exception. The kicks were pretty entertaining and I always prefer it when a tournament is decided by a save rather than a mistake.
I guess penalty kicks after a scoreless draw was a fitting end for the tournament. The AFCON is probably the craziest continental cup but after all that, CIV is a deserving champion.
I didn't get to see as much of it as I would of liked but what I did see mostly made me glad I missed the rest. The logistics of this tournament always makes it hard to get a read on the state of African soccer but I'm afraid the continent is losing ground to European national sides. I'm glad CAF was able to hold the tournament. The draw for the 2017 AFCON takes place exactly two months from today.
I guess penalty kicks after a scoreless draw was a fitting end for the tournament. The AFCON is probably the craziest continental cup but after all that, CIV is a deserving champion.
I didn't get to see as much of it as I would of liked but what I did see mostly made me glad I missed the rest. The logistics of this tournament always makes it hard to get a read on the state of African soccer but I'm afraid the continent is losing ground to European national sides. I'm glad CAF was able to hold the tournament. The draw for the 2017 AFCON takes place exactly two months from today.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Many people aside from me saw the lackadaisical and disinterested play of Barcelona in the second half of the la Liga season last year. In particular Messi, Neymar, and Dani Alves looked to be coasting. It seemed to me that none of those guys put in the effort to win a title last year. Maybe it was Tata, maybe it was the looming World Cup, maybe it was match fatigue, but it was certainly there.Slapdash said:The Z Machine said:
Atletico earned less points than Barcelona over the last month of the season. So did Real Madrid. They must have mailed it in even more. Quit making stuff up and just enjoy your historic win.
Here are some articles from the time:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-lionel-messi-looking-disinterested-3230087 - "Lionel Messi opened the scoring that night - but if he performs like he did against Valladolid on Saturday, Barca may well be better going with 10 men. The four-time Ballon d'Or winner wandered around aimlessly, not looking particularly bothered with what was going on at the Jose Zorrilla stadium at the weekend, as Valladolid clinched a shock 1-0 win over the Spanish champions."
http://www.beinsports.tv/la-liga/title/neymar-still-has-plenty-of-growing-to-do-at-barcelona/article/1dti0voh1xoim1ewuji0it7otk - "Neymar did not provide enough of that against Celta Vigo. He looked disinterested at times and not bothered. When he had the chance to beat his man, often he failed, which has been a recurring theme of late."
http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/04/19/la-liga-barcelona-vs-athletic-bilbao-match-preview/136753/ - "At the Mestalla against Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey, Barcelona looked disinterested at best: Xavi was stagnant in midfield, Neymar over-crowded, and Lionel Messi could have very much been absent altogether."
Article from this year contrasting last year (http://www.givemesport.com/518848-barcelona-looking-good-despite-damaging-defeats) - "The relentless pressing game that was a fixture of the Guardiola years has returned and a team that looked tired and disinterested last year, now look hungry and up for the fight in many respects."
I seem to recall some of the Barça love boys saying the same sorts of things in April of last year.
So your examples in support of "Barcelona mailed in the last few games of la Liga last season" are quotes from opinion pieces about two games in March (one of which in a game Barcelona won 3-0) and another in a different competition in mid-April? Again, Barcelona gained more points in the five games after the latest article you posted than Atletico and Real Madrid. These included two come from behind wins sparked by the very players you accuse of coasting. Again I ask you, were Atletico and Real mailing it in even more? Because I actually watched those games down the stretch, and you don't have a clue what youre talking about.Many people aside from me saw the lackadaisical and disinterested play of Barcelona in the second half of the la Liga season last year. In particular Messi, Neymar, and Dani Alves looked to be coasting. It seemed to me that none of those guys put in the effort to win a title last year. Maybe it was Tata, maybe it was the looming World Cup, maybe it was match fatigue, but it was certainly there.Slapdash said:The Z Machine said:
Atletico earned less points than Barcelona over the last month of the season. So did Real Madrid. They must have mailed it in even more. Quit making stuff up and just enjoy your historic win.
Here are some articles from the time:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-lionel-messi-looking-disinterested-3230087 - "Lionel Messi opened the scoring that night - but if he performs like he did against Valladolid on Saturday, Barca may well be better going with 10 men. The four-time Ballon d'Or winner wandered around aimlessly, not looking particularly bothered with what was going on at the Jose Zorrilla stadium at the weekend, as Valladolid clinched a shock 1-0 win over the Spanish champions."
http://www.beinsports.tv/la-liga/title/neymar-still-has-plenty-of-growing-to-do-at-barcelona/article/1dti0voh1xoim1ewuji0it7otk - "Neymar did not provide enough of that against Celta Vigo. He looked disinterested at times and not bothered. When he had the chance to beat his man, often he failed, which has been a recurring theme of late."
http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/04/19/la-liga-barcelona-vs-athletic-bilbao-match-preview/136753/ - "At the Mestalla against Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey, Barcelona looked disinterested at best: Xavi was stagnant in midfield, Neymar over-crowded, and Lionel Messi could have very much been absent altogether."
Article from this year contrasting last year (http://www.givemesport.com/518848-barcelona-looking-good-despite-damaging-defeats) - "The relentless pressing game that was a fixture of the Guardiola years has returned and a team that looked tired and disinterested last year, now look hungry and up for the fight in many respects."
I seem to recall some of the Barça love boys saying the same sorts of things in April of last year.
Listen, I get that you have some weird amount of hate for Barcelona. Even in the wake of sweeping your biggest rival for the first time in half a century, you really really want to talk #### about a team that has wiped the floor with Atletico this year for some reason. Maybe you could just choose an argument which was based on a bit of reality next time. Or you could keep moving goalposts and backpeddling. Either way, it is a pretty damn odd thing to care so much about after yesterday.
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Native
Footballguy
WhoScored.com @WhoScored 5m5 minutes ago
Manchester United: Only Metz and Burnley have attempted more long balls in Europe’s top 5 leagues this season than Manchester United (1861)
Manchester United: Only Metz and Burnley have attempted more long balls in Europe’s top 5 leagues this season than Manchester United (1861)
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You sound pretty defensive and riled up. You're telling me that you were happy with the way Barcelona played in April and May of last season? They were gifted chance after chance but did nothing with those opportunities. Seems like you're bitter about that. All of this stems from this comment I made, "Anyway, I'd rather have my team lose their cool every once in a while instead of laying down like Barça last season. They looked like they simply wanted it to end." Do you deny that Barcelona lacked the edge they needed to win and looked disinterested in playing in April and May?So your examples in support of "Barcelona mailed in the last few games of la Liga last season" are quotes from opinion pieces about two games in March (one of which in a game Barcelona won 3-0) and another in a different competition in mid-April? Again, Barcelona gained more points in the five games after the latest article you posted than Atletico and Real Madrid. These included two come from behind wins sparked by the very players you accuse of coasting. Again I ask you, were Atletico and Real mailing it in even more? Because I actually watched those games down the stretch, and you don't have a clue what youre talking about.Many people aside from me saw the lackadaisical and disinterested play of Barcelona in the second half of the la Liga season last year. In particular Messi, Neymar, and Dani Alves looked to be coasting. It seemed to me that none of those guys put in the effort to win a title last year. Maybe it was Tata, maybe it was the looming World Cup, maybe it was match fatigue, but it was certainly there.Slapdash said:The Z Machine said:
Atletico earned less points than Barcelona over the last month of the season. So did Real Madrid. They must have mailed it in even more. Quit making stuff up and just enjoy your historic win.
Here are some articles from the time:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-lionel-messi-looking-disinterested-3230087 - "Lionel Messi opened the scoring that night - but if he performs like he did against Valladolid on Saturday, Barca may well be better going with 10 men. The four-time Ballon d'Or winner wandered around aimlessly, not looking particularly bothered with what was going on at the Jose Zorrilla stadium at the weekend, as Valladolid clinched a shock 1-0 win over the Spanish champions."
http://www.beinsports.tv/la-liga/title/neymar-still-has-plenty-of-growing-to-do-at-barcelona/article/1dti0voh1xoim1ewuji0it7otk - "Neymar did not provide enough of that against Celta Vigo. He looked disinterested at times and not bothered. When he had the chance to beat his man, often he failed, which has been a recurring theme of late."
http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/04/19/la-liga-barcelona-vs-athletic-bilbao-match-preview/136753/ - "At the Mestalla against Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey, Barcelona looked disinterested at best: Xavi was stagnant in midfield, Neymar over-crowded, and Lionel Messi could have very much been absent altogether."
Article from this year contrasting last year (http://www.givemesport.com/518848-barcelona-looking-good-despite-damaging-defeats) - "The relentless pressing game that was a fixture of the Guardiola years has returned and a team that looked tired and disinterested last year, now look hungry and up for the fight in many respects."
I seem to recall some of the Barça love boys saying the same sorts of things in April of last year.
Listen, I get that you have some weird amount of hate for Barcelona. Even in the wake of sweeping your biggest rival for the first time in half a century, you really really want to talk #### about a team that has wiped the floor with Atletico this year for some reason. Maybe you could just choose an argument which was based on a bit of reality next time. Or you could keep moving goalposts and backpeddling. Either way, it is a pretty damn odd thing to care so much about after yesterday.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
This is a weird slap fight you two have going.
Barcelona looked tactically confused and no longer had players with the speed in midfield to play with effective pressure. I'm not bitter or upset that they barely lost to better teams. They'll win again, soon.You sound pretty defensive and riled up. You're telling me that you were happy with the way Barcelona played in April and May of last season? They were gifted chance after chance but did nothing with those opportunities. Seems like you're bitter about that. All of this stems from this comment I made, "Anyway, I'd rather have my team lose their cool every once in a while instead of laying down like Barça last season. They looked like they simply wanted it to end." Do you deny that Barcelona lacked the edge they needed to win and looked disinterested in playing in April and May?So your examples in support of "Barcelona mailed in the last few games of la Liga last season" are quotes from opinion pieces about two games in March (one of which in a game Barcelona won 3-0) and another in a different competition in mid-April? Again, Barcelona gained more points in the five games after the latest article you posted than Atletico and Real Madrid. These included two come from behind wins sparked by the very players you accuse of coasting. Again I ask you, were Atletico and Real mailing it in even more? Because I actually watched those games down the stretch, and you don't have a clue what youre talking about.Many people aside from me saw the lackadaisical and disinterested play of Barcelona in the second half of the la Liga season last year. In particular Messi, Neymar, and Dani Alves looked to be coasting. It seemed to me that none of those guys put in the effort to win a title last year. Maybe it was Tata, maybe it was the looming World Cup, maybe it was match fatigue, but it was certainly there.Slapdash said:The Z Machine said:
Atletico earned less points than Barcelona over the last month of the season. So did Real Madrid. They must have mailed it in even more. Quit making stuff up and just enjoy your historic win.
Here are some articles from the time:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-lionel-messi-looking-disinterested-3230087 - "Lionel Messi opened the scoring that night - but if he performs like he did against Valladolid on Saturday, Barca may well be better going with 10 men. The four-time Ballon d'Or winner wandered around aimlessly, not looking particularly bothered with what was going on at the Jose Zorrilla stadium at the weekend, as Valladolid clinched a shock 1-0 win over the Spanish champions."
http://www.beinsports.tv/la-liga/title/neymar-still-has-plenty-of-growing-to-do-at-barcelona/article/1dti0voh1xoim1ewuji0it7otk - "Neymar did not provide enough of that against Celta Vigo. He looked disinterested at times and not bothered. When he had the chance to beat his man, often he failed, which has been a recurring theme of late."
http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/04/19/la-liga-barcelona-vs-athletic-bilbao-match-preview/136753/ - "At the Mestalla against Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey, Barcelona looked disinterested at best: Xavi was stagnant in midfield, Neymar over-crowded, and Lionel Messi could have very much been absent altogether."
Article from this year contrasting last year (http://www.givemesport.com/518848-barcelona-looking-good-despite-damaging-defeats) - "The relentless pressing game that was a fixture of the Guardiola years has returned and a team that looked tired and disinterested last year, now look hungry and up for the fight in many respects."
I seem to recall some of the Barça love boys saying the same sorts of things in April of last year.
Listen, I get that you have some weird amount of hate for Barcelona. Even in the wake of sweeping your biggest rival for the first time in half a century, you really really want to talk #### about a team that has wiped the floor with Atletico this year for some reason. Maybe you could just choose an argument which was based on a bit of reality next time. Or you could keep moving goalposts and backpeddling. Either way, it is a pretty damn odd thing to care so much about after yesterday.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
This team sure could use a in his prime Scholes. They have no one to run the midfield. Hell, I've become happy when the hoof it up to The Belgian Fro - they look more dangerous and less likely to conceed.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Serious business, indeed.
Yeah. He made a stupid, off-hand remark in response to where I agreed with him. Didn't expect him to keep doubling down, but he's wrong and I'm bored enough to keep pointing that out.
It must really suck to think you were handed your first title in 20 years
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
They don't have that many more players now than they did then. You're saying Rakatic is the key? Not a revitalized Messi and Neymar?Barcelona looked tactically confused and no longer had players with the speed in midfield to play with effective pressure. I'm not bitter or upset that they barely lost to better teams. They'll win again, soon.You sound pretty defensive and riled up. You're telling me that you were happy with the way Barcelona played in April and May of last season? They were gifted chance after chance but did nothing with those opportunities. Seems like you're bitter about that. All of this stems from this comment I made, "Anyway, I'd rather have my team lose their cool every once in a while instead of laying down like Barça last season. They looked like they simply wanted it to end." Do you deny that Barcelona lacked the edge they needed to win and looked disinterested in playing in April and May?So your examples in support of "Barcelona mailed in the last few games of la Liga last season" are quotes from opinion pieces about two games in March (one of which in a game Barcelona won 3-0) and another in a different competition in mid-April? Again, Barcelona gained more points in the five games after the latest article you posted than Atletico and Real Madrid. These included two come from behind wins sparked by the very players you accuse of coasting. Again I ask you, were Atletico and Real mailing it in even more? Because I actually watched those games down the stretch, and you don't have a clue what youre talking about.Many people aside from me saw the lackadaisical and disinterested play of Barcelona in the second half of the la Liga season last year. In particular Messi, Neymar, and Dani Alves looked to be coasting. It seemed to me that none of those guys put in the effort to win a title last year. Maybe it was Tata, maybe it was the looming World Cup, maybe it was match fatigue, but it was certainly there.Slapdash said:The Z Machine said:
Atletico earned less points than Barcelona over the last month of the season. So did Real Madrid. They must have mailed it in even more. Quit making stuff up and just enjoy your historic win.
Here are some articles from the time:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-lionel-messi-looking-disinterested-3230087 - "Lionel Messi opened the scoring that night - but if he performs like he did against Valladolid on Saturday, Barca may well be better going with 10 men. The four-time Ballon d'Or winner wandered around aimlessly, not looking particularly bothered with what was going on at the Jose Zorrilla stadium at the weekend, as Valladolid clinched a shock 1-0 win over the Spanish champions."
http://www.beinsports.tv/la-liga/title/neymar-still-has-plenty-of-growing-to-do-at-barcelona/article/1dti0voh1xoim1ewuji0it7otk - "Neymar did not provide enough of that against Celta Vigo. He looked disinterested at times and not bothered. When he had the chance to beat his man, often he failed, which has been a recurring theme of late."
http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/04/19/la-liga-barcelona-vs-athletic-bilbao-match-preview/136753/ - "At the Mestalla against Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey, Barcelona looked disinterested at best: Xavi was stagnant in midfield, Neymar over-crowded, and Lionel Messi could have very much been absent altogether."
Article from this year contrasting last year (http://www.givemesport.com/518848-barcelona-looking-good-despite-damaging-defeats) - "The relentless pressing game that was a fixture of the Guardiola years has returned and a team that looked tired and disinterested last year, now look hungry and up for the fight in many respects."
I seem to recall some of the Barça love boys saying the same sorts of things in April of last year.
Listen, I get that you have some weird amount of hate for Barcelona. Even in the wake of sweeping your biggest rival for the first time in half a century, you really really want to talk #### about a team that has wiped the floor with Atletico this year for some reason. Maybe you could just choose an argument which was based on a bit of reality next time. Or you could keep moving goalposts and backpeddling. Either way, it is a pretty damn odd thing to care so much about after yesterday.
That and a change in tactics are the biggest IMO. Atlético tried to pressure them in the midfield on the return leg in the Copa it it burned them badly.Nigel Pearson skating on thin ice..."helping" James McArthur up
Reportedly sacked last night, then not sacked - crazy times for Leicester City
Reportedly sacked last night, then not sacked - crazy times for Leicester City
El Floppo
Footballguy
I saw that blip on one of the halftime or postgame shows, but wasn't paying attention.
wtf was going on there?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Guessing Nigel runs a bit hot generally and the unexpected (accidental) take down got his engine ignited.
El Floppo
Footballguy
watching it again- full respect to the player he's molesting who doesn't react at all (aside from a pat on the arm).
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Pearson didn't help himself with the tough guy act in the postgame -- "I'm more than capable of looking after myself" (??) Probably would have been better to laugh it off.
Jaysus
Good times!
El Floppo
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Me to my son on the couch yesterday morning - "Remember when you asked me why your coach wants you to juggle every day?"
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
ok- I know you were being specific about this, given the goal and teaching lesson...
but IMO and IME, juggling is the single best way of an individual bettering their foot-skills, as it translates across all aspects of ball-handling: trapping, passing, shooting, and dribbling (to a degree). you're not going to find guys who are great at any of those skills that aren't also great jugglers, and vice-versa.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I was always pretty bad at juggling; my foot is at an odd angle. Good thing it is less needed for tackling and goal keeping.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I loved Kane's goal- the timing of it, getting up as well as he did and having the skills/smarts to knock it back to the far corner, and that it was -of course- Kane... in their derby. as if it was all scripted/fated to be.
so I get it, even if the other goal was prettier on the eyes.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I've seen Kane's goal a thousand times. Any good striker makes that happen from time to time. The other goal was something special IMO. One to file away.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Jaysus
Good times!
El Floppo
Footballguy
totally agree with all of that... but it's rare that they make it happen against their arch-rival, for their brace (even though all eyes are on them), in the last 5 minutes of a tied game for the winner.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yeah, I get it. I'm just a stubborn old coot about unique and skillful over famous/situational. Peyton > Brady for example.
El Floppo
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I stand by my comment that Barça laid down in the second half of last season. It was plainly obvious for those not wearing blaugrana tinted glasses. Sure, I'd love to say that Atlético was by far the most talented team in la liga last year, but that's not true. What they were last season (and are rounding into it this year) are the most tactically cohesive and most intense team on the field over the course of the season. In addition, the teams with more talent played poorly for stretches, and that helped Atlético to the title. Was it gifted to them? Certainly not.
It is still a silly comment to make if you actually watched the games and an even sillier dead horse to beat a year later after winning a derby.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Christian Atsu named AFCON Player of the Tournament and Goal of the Tournament, but can't get a game for Everton, who have won 1 game in the last 10. What looked like a great loan last summer has turned sour. Your move Roberto Martinez.
I was not sold on Kane earlier in the season - but he just has a knack of being in the right place, at the right time. Kind of a poachers mentality, but he is so much more, as he can get a shot on target from just about anywhere, he holds the ball up reasonably well, and has a bit more pace and strength than most people believe.
Add to the fact that he is a good, young, (and white) English striker, and his accomplishments are bound to be blown out of proportion. But scoring a brace in his first NLD, is kind of a big deal (on top of the two goals he scored against Chelsea).
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Look, it was an off-hand remark that (while true) is of little consequence, but then you got your red and blue striped panties all twisted about it.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
NLD was a much better game than the Merseyside derby this weekend. I expected more from Rodgers-Martinez.
I laughed at it and called it stupid, but you kept digging in. Next time maybe you should talk to the actual game going on instead of making bull#### jabs about last year about a team not involved. That is what I was in this thread to do, but you cannot help yourself. You're just as biased as me when it comes to Barcelona, probably moreso.
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B Maverick
Footballguy
charvik
Footballguy
I agree... the Merseyside derby was a bit of a snoozer. The only positive I got from it was Jordon Ibe. What a strike he had, and what a goal it could've been, but it wasn't to be. I thought the teams looked knackered. Complete lack of urgency and pace, and a bit of a disappointment and lost opportunity.
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