I guess we'll all have opinions. I just think punishing the guy for missing in miserable conditions would be just wrong. Right after the kicks were finished you could see his manager counseling Terry. His team rallied to him as well. I would agree that it would go down as a choke. Just the same as Beckhams miss in the World Cup. I am sure Terry will bounce back from this and move on.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
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After Vidcic smacked Drogba's hand away and shoved him a bit.This was going to be(and was) a street fight and FIFA had a referee who was poorly prepared for it. It showed on that first yellow caution - that turned it into a major bickering affair right from the get go and he let some heavy hand fighting go(or worse the Tevez takedown for example) and then called little ticky tack calls. And after 90+ minutes of that a little skirmish blows up - sad officiating in such a big game - reminiscent of some recent World Cup affairs. Referee should have been there and explained to Tevez exactly what he wanted him to do - he would have been there right at the start and the players wouldn't have started the bickering and had they he could have issued yellows right away.Aside from the cross to ronaldo, I dont think rooney had much of an impact on the game at all. He cant judge a header and was largely invisible. Tevez on the other hand is a work horse and was all over the field. Dissapointed in his finishing as he had 2 great chances. Scholes was tough early but after his head was bloodied he was nonexistant as well.As for what set off the melee and the red card was the perceived slight by chelsea that tevez didnt play the ball back to them after they intentionally knocked it out on the injury. IMO it was an answer to chelsea doing the same earlier in the game and the fact that it was Joe Cole just sitting in the box and not really hurt. Its the unwritten rule and Chelsea bent it earlier and Tevez picked a good time to give it back.guru_007 said:Thoughts on yesterdays game.
I'm happy with the result, but pretty much don't care for pk's. I just don't get it. Tournament is played as a home and home series, with clear and cut tie-breaker rules. Now, we have to deal with the soccer lottery to determine the champ? I just don't think it's a very fair indicator of the better side.
United was much the better the first half, however, Chelsea was clearly better in the second. The ot's were back and forth, no clear cut advantage, although I think Giggs had clearly the best opportunity for the winner, and Terry made an absolutely brilliant play to keep his team alive.
The footing was also clearly an issue throughout the entire match, but hey, it's soccer, it was raining, it's to be expected.
As a huge Rooney fan, I think he played a terrific game and I was disappointed to see him subbed for. He was terrific in both the front and back, as United basically just went with him forward a lot, and let him try to settle any long balls and set the attack (well, at least when they weren't able to clearly win the ball in midfield and build the attack). The long ball to Ronaldo which led to the Tevez butcher and the Cech save on Carrick was an absolutely great play, both to win the ball on defense and then the pass. I was very disappointed in the way Ferguson handled the second half, but hey, who am I to argue with success? I really don't think Tevez was well suited for this game, and Scholes was very clearly not a factor in the second half at all.As far as Chelsea goes, I like the fire Joe Cole plays with a lot. Sure there were a few times that he was a bit over the top, but hell, Rooney is much the same. Ballack really had a few great chances and squandered all of them. He is super talented, but I dunno, something about playing with a top flight team in England doesn't suit his confidence. And although I'm sure the rules dictate Drogba be sent off for his flick on Vidic, come on. There was plenty of testy play throughout, I dunno, I would have had a hard time giving him the red card there. More mysterious to me, is what the hell set that whole thing off??? I mean, there was a Chelsea guy down, and United had possession and sent the ball to touch. Then Tevez starts waving his arms for United to press forward, and all hell breaks loose.
And for the record, I was sure VDS was saving that Anelka kick. I have two of my kids as witnesses...I swear, when he went up there he slammed his hands together, got pumped up and he just knew he was making the save. I was pumped.
Sure, I was a bit boozed up at the time, but I just knew he was saving that last one.
Ballack, Lampard and Drogba all got in Tevez's face and started jawing and pushing and drogba ended up slapping vidic in the face right in front of the ref.
This always kills me. Drogba and Ballack are two of the biggest tools in the game. No amount of officiating--good or bad--would have prevented those two from doing something stupid.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Ballack is a tool, and I'm glad he lost. Sucks that Terry has to play on that team.
A
awesomeness
Guest
David Beckham has never missed a penalty kick in the World Cup, and neither of his 2 penalty kick misses are are even close to as bad a choke Terry had. Beckham's miss against Turkey didn't even matter, it was in the 36th minute of a Euro Cup qualifier game in which England didn't have to win as they were already guaranteed a spot in the Euro Cup. And his miss in the group stages of a Euro Cup match against France was in the 71st minute in a game where they were already winning 1-0.
Please, god, stop saying this.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Please stop this foolishness. JT is Mr. Chelsea, having come up through the club's youth program and been on the team far longer than any other player. He was easily the best player on the field yesterday through 120 minutes. "Punish" him for missing a PK? No other player would ever wear the captain's armband while Terry is on the field.
eagles2007
Footballguy
people really seem to be ignoring the fact that terry lost his footing as he was taking the kick. it still almost went in. had he been on perfect balance, it would have been in - no doubt about it. goalie was going in the other direction, too.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Feilhaber played for the u21s against Turkey int eh Toulon tourney... looked abysmal. Turks ran by him all day on both sides of the ball. That said- that was a boys against men type of game, and Benny had nobody else around him to help (seemed like Nowaks was using the game as a chance to try Olympic hopefuls out.)... it was an embarrasment, really.If he's getting schooled by u21s, i don't see him getting the start or even PT for the Sr side.The Z Machine said:
El Floppo
Footballguy
But maybe Awesomeness is just trying to play Psychiatrist here in saying Terry needs punishment- that if he isn't punished, the miss will haunt him in some way. 
Still just as goofy sounding to me, but what the heck.Terry is going to be haunted by this the rest of his life (barring a future CL championship), which will do absolutely nothing to his world-class play on the field. Get him at a bar, one-on-one and he might shed a tear or two over a pint, but he'll still be nails on the pitch.
And was the Becks "miss" comment maybe a reference to that Rambo Red Card vs Argentina? From what I understand, he still hasn't lived that one down.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Ugh... I didn't see that one. That's a real shame IMO, as he's looked good for the Sr. squad and has some of the capabilities that the team desperately needs. Maybe Bradley fits better.
jpeace121
Footballguy
Actually, I think Awesomeness is the only one ignoring this.
jpeace121
Footballguy
:jealous:I would be there if it wasn't a Sunday evening match. Can't believe they scheduled it for then.Guess who's going to the US v Argentina game in the Meadowlands
A
awesomeness
Guest
That's exactly what i'm saying, people just seem to be ignoring this. The punishment doesn't have to be losing the 'C' per se, but i think some sort of punishment will alleviate some of the guilt Terry feels.But maybe Awesomeness is just trying to play Psychiatrist here in saying Terry needs punishment- that if he isn't punished, the miss will haunt him in some way.
Still just as goofy sounding to me, but what the heck.
Terry is going to be haunted by this the rest of his life (barring a future CL championship), which will do absolutely nothing to his world-class play on the field. Get him at a bar, one-on-one and he might shed a tear or two over a pint, but he'll still be nails on the pitch.
And was the Becks "miss" comment maybe a reference to that Rambo Red Card vs Argentina? From what I understand, he still hasn't lived that one down.
You might want to reread my posts. I don't ignore the fact that Terry slipped, i just dont think its an acceptable excuse for missing a penalty kick to win the Champions League.
andy_b
Footballguy
Benny was also hurt during that game and had to come out in the 67th minute according to the match report. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=537750&cc=5901
This makes absolutely no sense.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I've been pretty unimpressed with Feilhaber lately...
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Ives is reporting that Maurice Edu will replace Feilhaber on the roster due to this injury.http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives...es-fe.html#more
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I think Edu is a good fill-in here. He's not fantastic, but he's still fairly young and has room to improve. It'll be nice to see him get another cap and see how he faces against stiffer competition. He played well in the under-21s as I recall.
A
awesomeness
Guest
What part do you find confusing?Perhaps if i gave a different example:Suppose there's an employer who scheduled an interview with someone wanting to work at their store. He shows up an hour late and explains he was late because his alarm clock didn't go off. The excuse isn't acceptable to the employer, so the kid misses out on his interview.
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jpeace121
Footballguy
For the first time ever, I can honestly say I'm on the threshold of being Shuked here.Okay okay .. i am a dolt.. The miss was the euro qualifier for Becks. The Red card was more the reference I was looking for. He got death threats over that one. Anyway, the point is crap happens on the pitch. I remember Becks talking about how the ground moved before his miss. Whatever, there is no way Terry will be punished for that and to wish that on him is spiteful. It was an exciting ending and a fun match to watch.Still just as goofy sounding to me, but what the heck.
Terry is going to be haunted by this the rest of his life (barring a future CL championship), which will do absolutely nothing to his world-class play on the field. Get him at a bar, one-on-one and he might shed a tear or two over a pint, but he'll still be nails on the pitch.
And was the Becks "miss" comment maybe a reference to that Rambo Red Card vs Argentina? From what I understand, he still hasn't lived that one down.
A
awesomeness
Guest
I don't see how the examples are different. Each person has an excuse for why they failed at something, and one could argue either way, on each case, whether the excuse is adequate. The fact is Terry missed his penalty kick. I dont see how since he slipped, it makes it so one can't be angry at the guy for missing the penalty kick.
El Floppo
Footballguy
.... 
Who is saying you shouldn't be angry at Terry for missing the PK? Get your panties as bunched as you want. We're all reacting because you keep trying to say that he should be punished for it... but in an altruistic way, since the punishment will somehow alleviate the shame and guilt he'll carry with him the rest of his life over this. It's goofy defined, and you're not helping yourself out with irrelevent analogies by way of support.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Good stuff, guys
Too bad about Benny... even though he looked like a guy who hadn't played all season in that Turkey game, he had a couple of flashes of why we all like/hope for him. But he looked slow and almost amateurish the rest of the first half... :confession: ... I only watched the first half (2nd is on DVR) and am pretty stunned the US was able to score goals- especially Ochoa who looked like a generic US college forward, not an international caliber pro.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....
After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
After another scoreless period without goalies, pull two field players. And so on. It could end up one on one. There'd be strategy involved- do I pull two defenders and keep my scoreres in, or do I stay strong on defense? Hmmmmm.
After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
After another scoreless period without goalies, pull two field players. And so on. It could end up one on one. There'd be strategy involved- do I pull two defenders and keep my scoreres in, or do I stay strong on defense? Hmmmmm.
brewer
Footballguy
How about just going with the home and home format of the prior rounds? Look, everyone can agree that there will be a large percentage of draws at this level of soccer. Why not decrease the odds by going with the 2 game format and tiebreaker format from the prior round. Deciding a Champions League winner on PKs or some odd scheme of sending off players doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. How about a 1 game format, with the ability to have a rematch if they remain tied at the end of 2 overtimes? Any way that would settle the match on the pitch via normal soccer rules would be better than what they have now.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!After another scoreless period without goalies, pull two field players. And so on. It could end up one on one. There'd be strategy involved- do I pull two defenders and keep my scoreres in, or do I stay strong on defense? Hmmmmm.
exactly.And wtf are we having the CL final on a Wednesday night???? How about a weekend?How about just going with the home and home format of the prior rounds? Look, everyone can agree that there will be a large percentage of draws at this level of soccer. Why not decrease the odds by going with the 2 game format and tiebreaker format from the prior round. Deciding a Champions League winner on PKs or some odd scheme of sending off players doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. How about a 1 game format, with the ability to have a rematch if they remain tied at the end of 2 overtimes? Any way that would settle the match on the pitch via normal soccer rules would be better than what they have now.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
Meh. That's boring. How about this....If you don't like my idea of sending off players, how about a ten minute, sudden death, period where (and this is where the imagination and creativity comes in), players are allowed to use their hands. (only to forward the ball or pass, not to shoot- that would be in the next overtime period).Thought?How about just going with the home and home format of the prior rounds? Look, everyone can agree that there will be a large percentage of draws at this level of soccer. Why not decrease the odds by going with the 2 game format and tiebreaker format from the prior round. Deciding a Champions League winner on PKs or some odd scheme of sending off players doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. How about a 1 game format, with the ability to have a rematch if they remain tied at the end of 2 overtimes? Any way that would settle the match on the pitch via normal soccer rules would be better than what they have now.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!After another scoreless period without goalies, pull two field players. And so on. It could end up one on one. There'd be strategy involved- do I pull two defenders and keep my scoreres in, or do I stay strong on defense? Hmmmmm.
brewer
Footballguy
My thought is that is not soccer. Why not just use an arm wrestling match... it seems about as arbitrary.Meh. That's boring. How about this....If you don't like my idea of sending off players, how about a ten minute, sudden death, period where (and this is where the imagination and creativity comes in), players are allowed to use their hands. (only to forward the ball or pass, not to shoot- that would be in the next overtime period).Thought?How about just going with the home and home format of the prior rounds? Look, everyone can agree that there will be a large percentage of draws at this level of soccer. Why not decrease the odds by going with the 2 game format and tiebreaker format from the prior round. Deciding a Champions League winner on PKs or some odd scheme of sending off players doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. How about a 1 game format, with the ability to have a rematch if they remain tied at the end of 2 overtimes? Any way that would settle the match on the pitch via normal soccer rules would be better than what they have now.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
Wow. Just wow.My thought is that is not soccer. Why not just use an arm wrestling match... it seems about as arbitrary.Meh. That's boring. How about this....If you don't like my idea of sending off players, how about a ten minute, sudden death, period where (and this is where the imagination and creativity comes in), players are allowed to use their hands. (only to forward the ball or pass, not to shoot- that would be in the next overtime period).Thought?How about just going with the home and home format of the prior rounds? Look, everyone can agree that there will be a large percentage of draws at this level of soccer. Why not decrease the odds by going with the 2 game format and tiebreaker format from the prior round. Deciding a Champions League winner on PKs or some odd scheme of sending off players doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. How about a 1 game format, with the ability to have a rematch if they remain tied at the end of 2 overtimes? Any way that would settle the match on the pitch via normal soccer rules would be better than what they have now.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I was introduced to European soccer while living in Germany in 1986 (WC Mexico year) and this was a hot topic back then and has been a matter of constant debate at FIFA and UEFA ever since. There have been numerous studies, committees, reports, etc. on this issue by men much more knowledgable than anyone on this board. This isn't to say its not a worthwhile or interesting topic to discuss, but I think one has to be careful before bantering around the comment, "anything is better than the current system." In fact, while the PK system is quite frustrating at times, it is hard to find a better solution. Suggestions that involve fundamental changes to the game (such as eliminating offsides in OT, using a larger goal, removing field players, removing goalies, allowing players to use their hands (???) or similar dramatic changes) are summarily rejected, I think for good reason. A PK battle is an unsatisfying way to decide a winner, but at least the exercise of taking and defending PK's is a normal part of the game and at least we know both teams earned the right to participate in a PK shootout through their play on the field under standard rules over 120 minutes.The old-school replay solution simply doesn't work given modern logistics - the event has to be decided on the day it is scheduled due to fan travel, television schedules, stadium use and just the huge logistics involved in an event of this stature. The 2 game (home and away) system used in earlier rounds would not work in a final in my opinion as the result in the first leg could eliminate any interest in the second, which would be the game that would be the final event of the CL tournament. Imagine if the away team won the first leg 2-0 - then the spectaular "final" game of the CL would have no interest at all. One has to remember that the away-goal rule often causes unappealing tactical play and in the end these 2 game matches are often decided by PK's anyway. There is also an advantage in my opinion for the team that plays at home in the second game.I believe it was in the late 80's or early 90's when the "golden goal" was introduced by FIFA - a sudden death goal that was meant to increase excitement and reduce incidences of draws. That was viewed as a tremendous departure from the standard rules and was adopted over great objection. I don't believe UEFA ever adopted it for its tournaments (although they used the slightly different "silver goal" system, with which a goal lead at the end of the first OT period would end the game). I believe FIFA has since stopped using it the golden goal after a short-lived experiment. I think this illustrates the delicate nature of rule changes in this game and counsels against any dramatic suggestions for solutions.Meh. That's boring. How about this....If you don't like my idea of sending off players, how about a ten minute, sudden death, period where (and this is where the imagination and creativity comes in), players are allowed to use their hands. (only to forward the ball or pass, not to shoot- that would be in the next overtime period).Thought?How about just going with the home and home format of the prior rounds? Look, everyone can agree that there will be a large percentage of draws at this level of soccer. Why not decrease the odds by going with the 2 game format and tiebreaker format from the prior round. Deciding a Champions League winner on PKs or some odd scheme of sending off players doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. How about a 1 game format, with the ability to have a rematch if they remain tied at the end of 2 overtimes? Any way that would settle the match on the pitch via normal soccer rules would be better than what they have now.Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
B Maverick
Footballguy
I am a huge Tevez AND Rooney fan. Having both of them is essential for another run next year, esp since Rooney cant play a full season. Tevez is a work horse and very few Strikers make meaningful runs in the defensive half. Rooney;s defense is usually right after he thinks he should have gotten a call and usually right before he runs over someone and gets a card. I love his fire and passion but he really was largely invisible this game. Tevez did butcher 1 chance and cech made a great save on his other chance.*********On another note, i should have known before watching that Rome/Around the Horn and all the talking heads would be bemoaning the PK finale. Comparing it to a Free Throw Contest or an HR contest is tired. They dont need to understand it, just accept it. This isnt hockey with a smaller rink, less game time and unlimited subs. Players run for 120+, 3 subs. Golden Goal is worthless, reentering games is not possible.Should they allow for more subs in OT? maybe. But how long do you wait before you let the players stop running? 4 more subs really wont help too much (3 subs and a keeper actually) Still half the team has been on for 90+ mins.
brewer
Footballguy
Much of this is a
Why does it have to be decided in one game though? There are plenty of major sports and tournaments that are best of 7 or the like. I know that these types of games are played at the home sites of the participating teams, but I would suggest that a one game schedule at a neutral site with the chance of a replay 2 days later would be extremely exciting and fair to both the players and the fans.
andy_b
Footballguy
me thinks you missed the joke on the hands suggestion
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brewer
Footballguy
andy_b said:me thinks you missed the joke on the hands suggestionCletiusMaximus said:
By a mile.
Or keep the goalie on the field but only allow him to use his hands in the 6 yard box.JuniorNB said:Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
andy_b
Footballguy
This is a rule Pele has been trying to push for years now as a rule for the whole game(not just OT). He feels that as the keepers have become better and bigger, that they dominate the area. I have to admit that it would make for more offensive excitement than watching the keeper catch or punch a majority that come into the area. Its also a rule that can be added with out changing any infrastructure to the game which is important in a global sport (which is one of the reasons "increasing goal size" tends to be a non starter).Or keep the goalie on the field but only allow him to use his hands in the 6 yard box.JuniorNB said:Ok, I got it. A less anti-climatic way of settling tie games....
After a scoreless overtime, ten minutes period without goalkeepers! Crazy, yes. But exciting!
After another scoreless period without goalies, pull two field players. And so on. It could end up one on one. There'd be strategy involved- do I pull two defenders and keep my scoreres in, or do I stay strong on defense? Hmmmmm.
Speaking of rule changes, was the "even is on" the last real major rule change from FIFA? Before that it was the pass back to the keeper rule that was changed in the early to mid 90's if memory serves..
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jpeace121
Footballguy
Hodgson has begun making changes to Fulham for next season. I still don't understand what changed so drastically for Bocanegra to go from captain to being release by the team.
Fulham release six
Fulham release six
Any guesses on where Boca ends up?
andy_b
Footballguy
can someone explain to me what means "not renewing contract"? Was Boca at the end of his current contract or is this like the NFL where you can be in mid contract but the contract is not guaranteed and you can be released when ever?Boca is most certainly going to be an important part of the US squad in the next couple of years. I hope he lands some where where he plays consistently, even if its back in MLS.
Texas Football
Footballguy
linkage for Italia. http://www.dailymotion.com/related/372286/video/x7z9c_italia-ucraina-300606_sporthttp://www.dailymotion.com/related/372286/video/x7z9c_italia-ucraina-300606_sport
This thread is awesome for following the US squad as well as La Liga and the Prem. Please keep it up.
My teams are Ipswich, Inter and Liverpool in league play. Don't ask how I became a Tractor Boy fan, I think I may be the only one in the US. West Ham = suck
This thread is awesome for following the US squad as well as La Liga and the Prem. Please keep it up.
My teams are Ipswich, Inter and Liverpool in league play. Don't ask how I became a Tractor Boy fan, I think I may be the only one in the US. West Ham = suck
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
finnmaccoul
Footballguy
Waiting to see what happens with Tottenham next season. Been disappointed badly since mid season. Trying to stay up with my Harps in the LOI. Doesn't Arsenal have to have at least one Englishman on their team?
Texas Football
Footballguy
For Champions I think they need 4 home grown & 8 English on the list. Pretty sure you could put a squad of Martians out for the EPL with no consequnce.
HellToupee
Footballguy
nice signing of Modric but to bad Spurs can't keep Berbatov as wellfinnmaccoul said:
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