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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (5 Viewers)

You know Fellaini stinks when all the ManU supporters want him banned and all the LIV supporters don't want him banned.

 
FA Cup Draw for the semis at Wembly:

Crystal Palace v Watford

Everton v Manchester United/West Ham

One game each will be played on Saturday, April 23, and Sunday, April 24, though the FA Cup has yet to assign the dates.

 
I was talking with gb over the weekend about the crazy EPL year and watchging some games. got to thinking... there's a handful of teams that "play" and the rest sit back, defend and do their best to counter. Those teams are tough to break down, but the better teams usually do eventually through a show of skill or luck or just endless possession breaking down the opposition. Leicester is one of those defensive countering teams- seems like when they play the rest of teams that play a similar style they are better able to lure those teams out of their turtle shells by sitting back to defend effectively  through the MF and Dline and then sucker punch the #### out of them with vardy, mahrez and okazaki.. probably not an original idea, but it was a definite light-bulb moment for me thinking about it.

 
btw, NYC looked good before whatever lead to their second half collapse against TFC. 3 man back line with the extra central MF allowing Pirlo to not have to work as hard (he was still working hard). the MF pressured all over the field and did a decent job holding their shape- especially considering the season is still young. they seemed to get fortunate with some desperate lunges and tackles that stopped would might have opened them completely up... which is what might have happened in the second half. they did a decent job attacking, even if Pirlo wasn't as involved as I would have liked. Mix was everywhere. Tommy *superstar* Mac worked hard and set up the first goal by luring the defender in with what must have been intentionally poor first touches that slowed him up on the top of the box, allowing the defender to slide in for the PK. they were fun to watch, even on that ####bergh of a field, but looked ready to be split wide open at any time with the right combination of passes. TFC looked good too- aside from the early goals they gave up. 

 
The Fellaini hate is way over the top. He's not terrible. He was very good at the end of last season.  The poor guy has been jerked around all over the field this year.  He's played nearly every position aside from left back.  

It's almost as if he's being blamed for United's poor season, which is ridiculous.  It's not his fault that United are so terrible that they have to resort to hoof ball.  

My main point with that post was that he (along with De Gea and Varela) didn't make my stomach turn playing against Liverpool.  I could tell he was fighting, scrapping, wasn't taking any ####.  Scholes summed up the rest of the squad that day:  "It's just the quality. The lack of fight, I see Lallana after an hour studs rolling [over the ball], he's almost taking the mickey. Someone tackle him, smash him!," 

 
Bonzai said:
The Fellaini hate is way over the top. He's not terrible. He was very good at the end of last season.  The poor guy has been jerked around all over the field this year.  He's played nearly every position aside from left back.  

It's almost as if he's being blamed for United's poor season, which is ridiculous.  It's not his fault that United are so terrible that they have to resort to hoof ball.  

My main point with that post was that he (along with De Gea and Varela) didn't make my stomach turn playing against Liverpool.  I could tell he was fighting, scrapping, wasn't taking any ####.  Scholes summed up the rest of the squad that day:  "It's just the quality. The lack of fight, I see Lallana after an hour studs rolling [over the ball], he's almost taking the mickey. Someone tackle him, smash him!," 
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I respectfully disagree.  He is actually very terrible.  Maybe its due to him being out of position (What is his best position?), but he consistently gives away balls and commits fouls.  For a man his size, very few should be able to beat him in the air yet most do.  Put a body next to him and he is beatable.  His best move is a chest trap, which he does very well.  However, half the time he then gives a bad pass and has to go kick someone. He is slow on the ball which kills forward momentum. Against West Ham he routinely missed headers and didnt attack the ball.  Several fell to the floor as he watched and waited for a teammate or WHU to go get it.  His header win ratio was easily 3 or 4 misses for every 1 won.  He is slow and offers very little in defense (all too often his man runs right by him with our without the ball leading to an attack on goal) outside a foul.

He has no control and does not keep possession and does not fit the LVG "Philosophy" of possession. (LVG's philosophy can be debated another time since its shown nothing but rigid crap as well).  And you never see United hoofing it forward when he is not there. It is painfully obvious that LVG wants them to when he is in.  De Gea looks for him on punts.  He can not handle it.  They are a different team when he is not on the field.

He had his moments last season.  I will grant you that.  He scored some key goals and had a couple nice assists.  But to me United won despite him not because of him and to call him very good is overstating.  

And Scholes is correct and I miss him too. But Fellaini fouling people to set up attacking free kicks really doesnt seem like a grand plan.  Esp when you know hes going to get booked and can only hope he doesn't see red to go a man down.  And Fellaini was part of the lack of quality Scholes was talking about.

To me Fellaini would be a good player for a middle to lower team (Yes I know where United sit now) that has no European/top 4/EPL Title aspirations.  He is not a United caliber player or maybe I should say he isnt the caliber of player for what is expected for United.  

 
Bonzai said:
 "It's just the quality. The lack of fight, I see Lallana after an hour studs rolling [over the ball], he's almost taking the mickey. Someone tackle him, smash him!," 
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Yaya put a stop to any Lallana Mickey-taking a few weeks ago. 






FA had no problem with this btw.

 
Go and look at his stats on whoscored:  https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1058719/Live/Europe-UEFA-Europa-League-2015-2016-Liverpool-Manchester-United

He won 75% of his aerial duels.  He won 6, two times more than anyone else in the game.  His match rating was 6.7; only De Gea and Schneiderlin were ranked higher.  

It's like it's personal with Fella.  It's not just here, either.  I see it around the web.  I think it's that Moyes stench.  Again, I agree I'd like to see someone else in there too, but that goes for almost the entire team.

 
CGRdrJoe said:
Diego back to Atletico? :unsure:
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He'd be an upgrade from what we have.  I don't like the baggage, but I can't argue that he's not productive or doesn't have talent.  He's like a Balotelli with better work ethic and probably more IQ.

 
Speaking of France, if they can keep their heads on straight, stop blackmailing each other and such, they look absolutely loaded for this summer and beyond.  

 
The Z Machine said:
Aside from a massive stockpile of midfield talent, France is certainly on par or has exceeded Spain for talent on their national team.
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The books have France essentially even with Germany to win, with Spain roughly half the price then a big drop to England, Belgium and Italy.  France gets a bump as host, but their propensity for insane implosion is also priced into those odds.  France has so much under 25 talent, they look well-positioned for Russia, again with the standard caveat for sex scandals and mutiny. 

 
So a France starting 11, for grins.

Lloris 

Sagna/Debucy, Koscielny, LaPorte/Varane, Kurzawa

Sissoko/Ben Arfa, Pogba, Matuidi/Payet, Ribery/Nasri

Benzema, Griezman/Lacazette

That is a really strong side.  The spine of that team, Benzema, Pogba, Kosc, and Lloris are quite incredible.  

 
France was my dark horse World Cup team in '14. I thought they played it too conservatively against Germany because they had the horses to run with them.

Gotta think they could do very well at home this summer.

 
Benz has been underwhelming for some time now IMO.  Perhaps it's the situation he's in, but this is hos moment to shine and stake his claim to be a superstar, not overshadowed by Bale, Ronaldo, Ramos, Modric, etc.

How's Ribery doing these days?  Is Nasri really a threat to his spot?

 
Here's a Spain XI, for grins:

De Gea

Carvajal, Piqué, Ramos, Alba

Koke, Busquets, Mata?, Iniesta

Costa, Cesc?

Can Cesc still play as an advanced playmaker?  I'm a homer, but I'd consider a double pivot with Gabi and Busquets to choke the hell out of the opposition.

 
The Z Machine said:
Here's a Spain XI, for grins:

De Gea

Carvajal, Piqué, Ramos, Alba

Koke, Busquets, Mata?, Iniesta

Costa, Cesc?

Can Cesc still play as an advanced playmaker?  I'm a homer, but I'd consider a double pivot with Gabi and Busquets to choke the hell out of the opposition.
Click to expand...
Silva?

 
Spain really has way too many quality midfielders for one nation.  I know Mata has fallen off some, but I guess you could pull Mata out, put Koke next to Busquets in the middle, leaving Silva on the left.  You could also go with 5 midfielders, but I don't think that's ideal despite having quality players to choose from.  I think they need more lethality, and Spain struggles with that when they don't have two guys playing up top IMO.  Costa won't get fed enough.

 
El Floppo said:
The Z Machine said:
Here's a Spain XI, for grins:

De Gea

Carvajal, Piqué, Ramos, Alba

Koke, Busquets, Mata?, Iniesta

Costa, Cesc?

Can Cesc still play as an advanced playmaker?  I'm a homer, but I'd consider a double pivot with Gabi and Busquets to choke the hell out of the opposition.
Click to expand...
Silva?
Click to expand...
Arsenals-Cazorla-reacts-a-008.jpg


 
Poke_4_Life said:
So a France starting 11, for grins.

Lloris 

Sagna/Debucy, Koscielny, LaPorte/Varane, Kurzawa

Sissoko/Ben Arfa, Pogba, Matuidi/Payet, Ribery/Nasri

Benzema, Griezman/Lacazette

That is a really strong side.  The spine of that team, Benzema, Pogba, Kosc, and Lloris are quite incredible.  
Click to expand...
Doesn't Cabaye get consideration?  I admit to not following French national football, but just a question how he compares to some of those midfielders.

ETA -- Also, Giroud and Martial?  They wouldn't be in consideration to start?

 
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El Floppo said:
whoa. totally forgot about the sanity clause.
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Arsenal midfielder Santi Cazorla has claimed that having his own song is the highlight of his career so far.

The Spain international, who is favourite among the Emirates faithful, has been out of action since the end of November but is expected to return on April 2.

‘Having my own song is the best moment in my career. I can only say thank you so much,’ Cazorla said in a question and answer session on Twitter.

Arsene Wenger will be hoping the 31-year-old gets back to full fitness on schedule as the Gunners battle Leicester, Tottenham and Manchester City for the Premier League title.

Gooners should be chanting Cazorla’s name again very shortly if reports are to believed.
Click to expand...

 
gianmarco said:
Doesn't Cabaye get consideration?  I admit to not following French national football, but just a question how he compares to some of those midfielders.
Click to expand...
There's tons I left off, Martial, Cabaye, Giroud, Remy, Zouma, Schneiderlin...  the list goes on.

I don't think Ribery is close to losing his position when healthy either at Bayern or on the French 11, but he has been injured a lot so I could see Nasri getting more play to keep him fit.

 
Seeing Cazorla reminded me of a Q I've had for the Arsenal faithful...

Which attacking players on the team do you think highly of?  When I watch them the only guys who ever really stand out for me are Ozil and Sanchez.  Coquelin seems like a good player, but he's mostly d-oriented I think?

The rest seem like a "sum is greater than the parts" situation -- the quality of team play is high, but no one ever really catches my eye.  Ramsey, Ox, Cazorla, Wiltshire, Arteta, Flamini, Walcott, Campbell, Welbeck, Giroud.  Meh.  Nice players, but not of the individual quality that you'd expect for me.  They seem like cogs in a machine.

No problem admitting I'm wrong about that, but which specific players would Arsenal fans say I'm wrong about?

 
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Sanchez ..... and Oliver gets into some nice spots and has a quick release. 

Ozil has improved, but he's still soft and can get bullied around. 

Don't forget what the Untied team did after Fergie left....be careful what you wish for Arsenal fans.

Wenger might be working some magic. 

 
wdcrob said:
Seeing Cazorla reminded me of a Q I've had for the Arsenal faithful...

Which attacking players on the team do you think highly of?  When I watch them the only guys who ever really stand out for me are Ozil and Sanchez.  Coquelin seems like a good player, but he's mostly d-oriented I think?

The rest seem like a "sum is greater than the parts" situation -- the quality of team play is high, but no one ever really catches my eye.  Ramsey, Ox, Cazorla, Wiltshire, Arteta, Flamini, Walcott, Campbell, Welbeck, Giroud.  Meh.  Nice players, but not of the individual quality that you'd expect for me.  They seem like cogs in a machine.

No problem admitting I'm wrong about that, but which specific players would Arsenal fans say I'm wrong about?
Click to expand...
Ramsey is an excellent goal scoring midfielder in the Frank Lampard mold.  But that assumes the team can be set up to use him that way.  Giroud is a good striker.  He's not a superstar striker.  Unlike guys like Walcott and Ox, he actually contributes even if he doesn't score.  I feel the same way about Campbell, although the sample size is admittedly a lot smaller. 

I think you'll get a lot of diversity of opinion among Arsenal fans on players like Theo, Ox, and Wilshere.  All three are talented.  All three just don't seem to get better, IMO.  I wouldn't lose sleep if Arsenal let all three walk.

I think Sanchez is incredibly streaky and hasn't really been better for Arsenal than Giroud.  They both score in bunches and then have long fallow spells.  For Cazorla (and even Ozil) I think they look better with a reliable striker who finishes his dinner.  But those guys don't grow on trees.   There's no doubt that Benzema, Cavani, Ibra, Aubemyang, or Lewandowski would make a huge difference for Arsenal.  But you can't just pick those guys up at the local Tesco. 

 
Poke_4_Life said:
There's tons I left off, Martial, Cabaye, Giroud, Remy, Zouma, Schneiderlin...  the list goes on.

I don't think Ribery is close to losing his position when healthy either at Bayern or on the French 11, but he has been injured a lot so I could see Nasri getting more play to keep him fit.
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Zouma is definitely out this Summer. Its somewhat hard to know what Deschamps is thinking as France didn't have to qualify, but I think Cabaye and Schneiderlin played in midfield with Matuidi in recent friendlies, for what its worth. They have a couple more tune-ups later this month.

 
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