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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (8 Viewers)

NewlyRetired said:
Colin Coward claiming that soccer has now replaced hockey as part of the big 4 in America.  I don't know if that is true yet (speaking for the two sports as a whole, obviously the NHL is bigger than MLS will ever be in my lifetime) but the gap between the two sports which used to be cavernous between the two maybe just ten years ago has shrunk significantly.

That retching sound in the background is Dan Shaughnessy and Mike Francesa throwing up :)  

https://streamable.com/r13n
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I thinkn it's a fair assessment. More soccer players and watchers here than hockey... in general.

but yeah, like you say- NHL is a fair bit bigger, especially culturally, than MLS. Stanley Cup is all over the place on my news feed and on the news- even though there isn't a NY team in it. Even with a NY team last year, there was crickets for the Supporters Shield and MLS Cup. Even on ESPN, I've noticed that when they show MLS game scores on the ticker, they don't include the people who scored the way they do for NHL (unless it's Dos Santos or somebody "famous").

 
Would be curious to see total US TV rights revenue for each sport.  Cumulative -- across all American networks (majors, ESPNs, FSs, Spanish language, all of them).  IMO that'd be the best way to rank them.

I assume you have that at your fingertips Newly?

 
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wdcrob said:
Would be curious to see total US TV rights revenue for each sport.  Cumulative -- across all American networks (majors, ESPNs, FSs, Spanish language, all of them).  IMO that'd be the best way to rank them.

I assume you have that at your fingertips Newly?
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I do not have any of the Spanish rights for Liga MX which is a key component.

The NHL makes up 95% of the hockey TV revenue (I will allot 5% for the Olympics and other tiny items).   The NHL makes a TON of money on local TV revenue which likely keeps them ahead of soccer.

Soccer has MLS, EPL, World Cup, Copa, Gold Cup, Liga MX, Euro's etc  all adding to the pile.   

The Bundesliga is VERY hard to crack because Fox bought rights to a ton of countries all at once and I have no idea what of the expense was for the US rights with in that bundle.

 
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Atlanta is now going through the process of converting the season ticket deposits to real season tickets and gave this update.

"We know the deposits are over 30,000. We're converting them at the moment. We're going through the list. we are about 60 percent through now. We're in single digits (percentage) in terms of people that aren't taking that up."

If that conversion rate holds, they should see a season ticket base around 27k.  To put that into context, I believe Seattle had a base of around 22k their first season.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Atlanta is now going through the process of converting the season ticket deposits to real season tickets and gave this update.

"We know the deposits are over 30,000. We're converting them at the moment. We're going through the list. we are about 60 percent through now. We're in single digits (percentage) in terms of people that aren't taking that up."

If that conversion rate holds, they should season a season ticket base around 27k.  To put that into context, I believe Seattle had a base of around 22k their first season.
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apologies to atlanta friends/fans... but I have low expectations for that fan base holding. I genuinely hope to be proven completely wrong.

 
Not only are we not pushing the rock up the hill anymore, we're over the top and it's gathering steam on the downhill side.  Only Q left is how long the hill is.  Every single day brings some sort of new and good soccer news.  Things could happen quickly from here in terms of TV revenue and, by extension, the quality of players coming into the US to play.  Obviously growing talent will take longer, but that'll probably speed up too if MLS (and to a lesser extent the minors) pay enough.

 
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El Floppo said:
apologies to atlanta friends/fans... but I have low expectations for that fan base holding. I genuinely hope to be proven completely wrong.
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I won't speculate on holding since I was already completely wrong about the initial season tickets.  The reality is that they could lose a massive 50% of this initial base and still be better off than half the league.

 
wdcrob said:
Not only are we not pushing the rock up the hill anymore, we're over the top and it's gathering steam on the downhill side.  Only Q left is how long the hill is.  Every single day brings some sort of new and good soccer news.  Things could happen quickly from here in terms of TV revenue and, by extension, the quality of players coming into the US to play.  Obviously growing talent will take longer, but that'll probably speed up too if MLS (and to a lesser extent the minors) pay enough.
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National TV revenue for MLS will still take a while to move as the contract length is long.  The current deal won't be up until 2022.  For MLS to continue growing its payroll as they do every year, they are going to have to figure out how to generate tv revenue locally.  Only a small handful of teams in league do this now.

 
NewlyRetired said:
National TV revenue for MLS will still take a while to move as the contract length is long.  The current deal won't be up until 2022.  For MLS to continue growing its payroll as they do every year, they are going to have to figure out how to generate tv revenue locally.  Only a small handful of teams in league do this now.
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interesting.

we were just talking about "soccer" 's popularity here being big- and probably passing hockey. but this goes back to the continued discussion that MLS still lags behind- especially within popular culture/media. 

was or did somebody going to compare MLS vs NHL tv contracts/revenue? 

 
NewlyRetired said:
National TV revenue for MLS will still take a while to move as the contract length is long.  The current deal won't be up until 2022.  For MLS to continue growing its payroll as they do every year, they are going to have to figure out how to generate tv revenue locally.  Only a small handful of teams in league do this now.
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But 2022 is only six years.  In the grand scheme of things (even just Caligiuri's 1989 goal to today) that's not very long.

 
berndog said:
I played D3 in college and  I was lucky enough my folks helped me with tuition but outside of that I was on my own.  Unfortunately I ripped out one of my diadora's during the season..  Like most students all my money went to beer so there was no way I was going to spend any of my hard earned money on new cleats. 

I had 3 older brothers that played so I took a quick trip home and rummaged thru the old cleats.  My feet are 2 different sizes so anything that fit my right foot was a size to big on my left. Being practical I found an old puma that fit my left foot and kept the diadora on my right.   My coach and I never saw eye to eye and when he noticed my cleats it enraged him, good god you would of thought I screwed his wife.  Being a wise ### I took them off and started to practice barefoot.   I spent the rest of the practice running laps with my mismatched cleats while the team practiced. 

 I was one of the best players(on a very mediocre team) so he couldn’t stay mad at me for long but he never stopped #####ing about my cleats.
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classic.

 
El Floppo said:
interesting.

we were just talking about "soccer" 's popularity here being big- and probably passing hockey. but this goes back to the continued discussion that MLS still lags behind- especially within popular culture/media. 

was or did somebody going to compare MLS vs NHL tv contracts/revenue? 
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the gap in tv revenue between the two leagues is massive.

nationally, NHL brings in $200 million per year domestic and over $500 million international (Canada mostly)

nationally MLS brings in $70m per year domestic and an unknown number international (rough guess would be under $50m)

locally the gap is significantly bigger.  The big NHL teams can bring in upwards of $40m a year locally.  As comparison, the Galaxy bring in $5.5m a year and they are likely the highest in MLS.

 
wdcrob said:
But 2022 is only six years.  In the grand scheme of things (even just Caligiuri's 1989 goal to today) that's not very long.
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good point.

the iron is also very hot right now... would be nice to capitalize. but hopefully it continues over those next 6 years and the real and league-changing money comes at that point.

 
NewlyRetired said:
the gap in tv revenue between the two leagues is massive.

nationally, NHL brings in $200 million per year domestic and over $500 million international (Canada mostly)

nationally MLS brings in $70m per year domestic and an unknown number international (rough guess would be under $50m)

locally the gap is significantly bigger.  The big NHL teams can bring in upwards of $40m a year locally.  As comparison, the Galaxy bring in $5.5m a year and they are likely the highest in MLS.
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thanks andy- yeah, there it is. pretty glaring.

 
El Floppo said:
good point.

the iron is also very hot right now... would be nice to capitalize. but hopefully it continues over those next 6 years and the real and league-changing money comes at that point.
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one key to the next contract might be securing the 2026 WC as hosts.  Fox would likely over pay in the next MLS deal to keep the synergy building.

 
NewlyRetired said:
the gap in tv revenue between the two leagues is massive.

nationally, NHL brings in $200 million per year domestic and over $500 million international (Canada mostly)

nationally MLS brings in $70m per year domestic and an unknown number international (rough guess would be under $50m)

locally the gap is significantly bigger.  The big NHL teams can bring in upwards of $40m a year locally.  As comparison, the Galaxy bring in $5.5m a year and they are likely the highest in MLS.
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I actually think NHL has some things going in its favor for TV revenue.  They play games all week long, and play mainly evening games in the fall/winter months when TV viewership is up and the northerners are in the dark with nothing better to do.  On the converse, MLS plays mainly weekend games over the summer, TV viewership in the summer and especially on weekends is traditionally poor.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I actually think NHL has some things going in its favor for TV revenue.  They play games all week long, and play mainly evening games in the fall/winter months when TV viewership is up and the northerners are in the dark with nothing better to do.  On the converse, MLS plays mainly weekend games over the summer, TV viewership in the summer and especially on weekends is traditionally poor.
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Agreed.  The greater amount of games and significantly more commercial time during the games all add up to real revenue numbers for the broadcasters that MLS can never match even with significantly increased ratings.

The NHL playoffs in particular provide around 70 games for NBC by themselves.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Agreed.  The greater amount of games and significantly more commercial time during the games all add up to real revenue numbers for the broadcasters that MLS can never match even with significantly increased ratings.

The NHL playoffs in particular provide around 70 games for NBC by themselves.
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The NFL does OK with only 16 games. ;)

 
wdcrob said:
The NFL does OK with only 16 games. ;)
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The NFL is a tv machine.  They have a unique contract that no other league does in the US in that they have national tv broadcasters combined with local tv teams so that they can target each market separately.  And no one can approach the non stop commercial time the NFL provides broadcasters.  The NFL is providing 109 game windows for their broadcasters next season not including the playoffs.

 
That was mostly tongue in cheek, but the EPL also does pretty well with only 38 games.

My only point was that if the ratings/demand is high enough the $$ will follow.

 
I may not remember correctly, but it seems like the number of games on main stations has gone up significantly. ESPN carrying three games every day for a European tournament? I don't remember that ever happening but I could be mistaken.

 
Speaking of... not a fan of the 24-team Euro format at all.  Not only do most of these first round games not matter very much, there are a lot of games between teams with no obvious reason to watch.

 
gianmarco said:
I may not remember correctly, but it seems like the number of games on main stations has gone up significantly. ESPN carrying three games every day for a European tournament? I don't remember that ever happening but I could be mistaken.
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ESPN showed every game in 2012 as well.

The increasing importance of live sports to the service providers and the increased competition to ESPN with Fox and NBC launching their own sports stations has been great for soccer on tv.  Tons of hours to fill and soccer can provide live programming at times that other sports can not because of the time shift.

 
wdcrob said:
Speaking of... not a fan of the 24-team Euro format at all.  Not only do most of these first round games not matter very much, there are a lot of games between teams with no obvious reason to watch.
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I imagine the last group games will have a lot of games where a draw suits both teams. Even with them all being played at the same time. In general the group games are a "just don't lose" situation. 

 
Sweden has Zlatan and Wales has Bale, but there are a LOT of teams in the bottom half talent-wise that I couldn't care less about.  Basically instead of having 4 or 5 of those teams now there are a dozen of them.

 
wdcrob said:
Sweden has Zlatan and Wales has Bale, but there are a LOT of teams in the bottom half talent-wise that I couldn't care less about.  Basically instead of having 4 or 5 of those teams now there are a dozen of them.
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I don't mind the smaller teams involved as  much as I mind so many 3rd place teams advancing.  Instead of the wonderful Brazil elimination shock last night, they would have simply advanced in the 24 team format.

 
El Floppo said:
so what do you guys think is a proper punishment to teams for fans behaving badly? 
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this question is so hard for me to answer.  You need accountability but trying to control fans who are only going to fight is so hard.  It took a decade or more to some what clean this up the first time that I am really hoping that the hooligan culture is not reforming in a new generation.

 
El Floppo said:
so what do you guys think is a proper punishment to teams for fans behaving badly? 
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Inside the stadium, nail the teams.

Outside the stadium, nail the fans.  Seeing police standing around while this stuff goes on drives me crazy.  Grab as many as you can and put them in your jails long enough that word gets out not to eff around in Country X.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I don't mind the smaller teams involved as  much as I mind so many 3rd place teams advancing.  Instead of the wonderful Brazil elimination shock last night, they would have simply advanced in the 24 team format.
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I'm the mnnows guy on this board so I like the bigger tournament but it does make the group games relatively unimportant.  I think they'd be better off giving the top 4 group winners byes in the first knockout round than giving 4 of 6 third place teams berths.  But more games = more money.

 
Mjolnirs said:
Working from home is gold!  Working from home with Euro matches on all day .. even more so.
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Just got my concrete poured & finished; rushed back home...just so I can watch my beloved Azzuri...PELLE!...(please?)...Conte= No Insigne, no Sharawaay, no imagination.  I still have to believe.  Forza.

 
Conte; good coach, but so ####### cynical...terrible lineup for a 3-5-2.

Enjoy, Cletus & Native...he'll slash the tires on Mourinho's parked bus.

#GENIUS#!

 
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