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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

Fabrizio Romano

@FabrizioRomano

There’s *nothing* stated, official or confirmed yet about next Champions League and Europa League matches “temporarily suspended”. No press release, *nothing* decided yet. UEFA meeting in the next hours will clarify this point. #UEFA

 
NewlyRetired said:
I don't care about them.  I care about Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, and Steffen, all of whom could get caught up in this mess.

Here is the statement UEFA made, note the underlined, it is not yet a clear statement on international play for the players themselves.

======================

As previously announced by FIFA and the six Confederations, the clubs concerned will be banned from playing in any other competition at domestic, European or world level, and their players could be denied the opportunity to represent their national teams.
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I had read earlier when this was a rumor that UEFA was definitely gonna suspend players from International play. The argument was if players know they won't be able to play international comp if they join their clubs in this league, then they might leave and the Super League will not hold as credible as it did with the top players they had 

 
DJackson10 said:
I had read earlier when this was a rumor that UEFA was definitely gonna suspend players from International play. The argument was if players know they won't be able to play international comp if they join their clubs in this league, then they might leave and the Super League will not hold as credible as it did with the top players they had 
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They may do that eventually but have not yet from what I have seen (the previous post was a cut and paste from their press release).

There may be some serious court cases that come out of this. 

I can see UEFA punishing the clubs themselves but I am unsure what rights they have to deny players from playing for national teams (which is likely why they were not able to make a definitive statement in the release), especially when the players have contracts with the teams that proceeded the split.

And only FIFA can ban players world wide.  UEFA can only control their own region.

 
Really hope I wake up tomorrow to find that UEFA has followed through on their threats.  Kick these 12 out of domestic competitions.  Blacklist any player who takes part on ESL games from all FIFA competitions.  

I'll drop Liverpool if they follow through with this.  Maybe even if they don't now.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Blacklist any player who takes part on ESL games from all FIFA competitions.  
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Are you just trying to ruin my life???  You know this kills the US team right? :(

In more serious thoughts, I have don't understand international laws well enough but how can any one black list players who are already under contract?  Are you expecting them to just stop working and lose SIGNIFICANT money in an already very short career?

That seems incredibly unfair to me considering the players have absolutely nothing to do with this mess outside of being under contracts they signed before this split happens.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Are you just trying to ruin my life???  You know this kills the US team right? :(

In more serious thoughts, I have don't understand international laws well enough but how can any one black list players who are already under contract?  Are you expecting them to just stop working and lose SIGNIFICANT money in an already very short career?

That seems incredibly unfair to me considering the players have absolutely nothing to do with this mess outside of being under contracts they signed before this split happens.
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Now if FIFA/UEFA want to put in a rule that any player signs a new contract with one of these teams, that they are black listed, then at least that gives the players a chance to make a choice. 

Right now they have no choice outside of breaking a contract, which is not what anyone wants to see.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Are you just trying to ruin my life???  You know this kills the US team right? :(

In more serious thoughts, I have don't understand international laws well enough but how can any one black list players who are already under contract?  Are you expecting them to just stop working and lose SIGNIFICANT money in an already very short career?

That seems incredibly unfair to me considering the players have absolutely nothing to do with this mess outside of being under contracts they signed before this split happens.
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You'll be relieved to hear I have no power over what happens at all.  🙂

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
You'll be relieved to hear I have no power over what happens at all.  🙂
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you are far from the only one calling for screwing the players.  I just don't understand the thought process I guess. 

I have a really hard time believing John Henry has been chatting with Xherdan Shaqiri about this issue and yet people want to kill a players international career for something he had no choice in or ability to effect.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
On the plus side, Dike would be guaranteed promotion!
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on the down side, there may be no money for Barnsley to spend to buy him. :(

All league wide sponsorships and tv packages are going to drop through the floor once the big 6 teams are removed from the equation.

 
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Big meeting tomorrow.

If they truly take a hard line stance on this, then there's no way this goes forward.   This is along with every team's supporter group coming out with public statements against the new league.  The next few days should be very interesting.  

 
El Floppo said:
I know I shouldn't have been surprised based on the results...but I'm still surprised.
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Its as much a distraction as anything.  He was leaving at the end of the season in any event - too many burnt bridges.

And, oh by the way, Spurs found a Pot o' Gold yesterday, so now can afford to pay off Jose.

 
Amazing how people are siding with uefa and fifa against greed.

There are many elements I don’t like about the super league, but those two corrupt organizations and their empty threats aren’t an issue.  Man City and their team of lawyers walked all over uefa last summer, you think they are scared now?
 

Every team involved just got a bucket of money. Uefa and fifa are powerless and if they follow through on their threats, who cares. The Qatar WC is an absolute travesty anyway.

 
shader said:
Amazing how people are siding with uefa and fifa against greed.
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I am not.

Both sides are greedy.  That is why UEFA are angry - they are losing out on the money, that will be going directly to those clubs.  They don't care about the sanctity of the sport.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I am not.

Both sides are greedy.  That is why UEFA are angry - they are losing out on the money, that will be going directly to those clubs.  They don't care about the sanctity of the sport.
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Exactly, and why I don’t particularly care that they are blowing up the CL.  I’d also note these clubs are just talking about Midweek matches and it’s the domestic leagues and UEFA talking about banning them from domestic leagues.  UEFA better be careful, they do that and it’s pretty easy to open this up to say 40 and just play every match day.  The CL is a joke for these clubs in terms of money and I have no problem with them trying to get what they deserve over some corrupt beurocrats.

 
I, for one, do not welcome our new uber league overlords.

I like the history and rivalries within established leagues. I like that there are perpetual minnows up against the goliaths. I like that a Leicester can surprise everyone on a given year. I don't mind and kinda like that it's a cool and unusual weekend when the top teams square off- makes it that much more intense and interesting.

I genuinely doubt that the leagues that are left behind will carry the same level of interest for me without the top teams (and arsenal and spurs) staying...sucks. and I don't know that watching the top teams constantly play each other without the minnows will he as interesting.

 
Just now:

Fabrizio Romano @FabrizioRomano

UEFA’s Alexander Ceferin confirms: “The players that will play in the Super League will be banned from playing in the World Cup and Euros. Ceferin. They will not be allowed play for their national teams”.
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McBokonon said:
All I see here is talk about who’s more greedy between UEFA, FIFA, and the Super League people but nothing about the local supporters, who pretty much all seem against this and are looking for the closest League One team to support. I’m siding with them. :manofthepeople:
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Meh Newcastle is already close to League One level, you don't even have to switch teams.

 
McBokonon said:
All I see here is talk about who’s more greedy between UEFA, FIFA, and the Super League people but nothing about the local supporters, who pretty much all seem against this and are looking for the closest League One team to support. I’m siding with them. :manofthepeople:
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Ultimately these owners are trying to divorce the teams from the local community and elevate the global fans to be front and center.  They don't really care if Liverpool supports LFC, they just want the money.  This business about "legacy fans" gives it away.

 
The foundation of the Premier League in English football occurred in the early 1990s.

The first major step to its formation occurred in October 1990, when the managing director of London Weekend Television (LWT) Greg Dykemet with the representatives of the "big five" clubs - David Dein of Arsenal, Philip Carter of Everton, Noel White of Liverpool, Martin Edwards of Manchester United and Irving Scholar of Tottenham Hotspur.[1] The meeting was to pave the way for a breakaway from the Football League. Dyke believed that it would be more lucrative for ITV if only the larger clubs in the country were featured on national television and wanted to establish whether the clubs would be interested in a larger share of television rights money

Seems familiar.   :coffee:

The world did not end.  Football did not collapse.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Yeah, I think they were set to announce their changes tomorrow.  So, either the Super League were trying to get a jump on that, or someone was preparing to run a story on it, and the SL teams just put it all out there.

I think most people are upset, but don't really know why.  I think in reality, this won't change the landscape all that much.  Teams in the league will have more money, just as teams in CL do - but those teams will be spending more money, and paying a Super League Tax when buying players - so those lower teams will still be getting paid.
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I think the bold is largely true, assuming the leagues/UEFA/FIFA don't actually pull off banning these teams or players. The cool thing about CL/Europa league is that you have to qualify every year. The downside is that there are a ton of teams in it that have no realistic chance.

What it does is entrench the existing powers. Maybe that doesn't matter in Spain as it is hard to see what could ever dislodge the top 3 right now. Juventus (until this year) won 8 straight. PSG 7 of the last 8. Bayern the last 8.

English fans have the most to complain about here. City is running away with the EPL, but there is a lot of competition for the European spots. Their recent massive contract has really allowed the mid-table teams to compete and elevate their game. Based on results, Leicester has as much a claim as Arsenal. When have Spurs won anything that makes them worthy of a permanent inclusions? It solely is down to their branding. And I think that is what is what people are reacting to. I also think AC Milan is in that bucket.

:2cents:  

 
I think in the end - the volatility in the PL is what is a big driving force here.  The "elite" teams want to minimize the risk of not making CL.  Their wage structure depends on the huge spike in revenue from CL, and when an off-year hits - it really hurts those teams, even more than a team like Spurs.

So when you have 7-8 teams capable of a top-4 finish, the teams with the money at the top, don't like to share, and can't really afford to share.

 
Some things to keep in mind

1) UEFA was set to announce an expanded CL, Europa (and Europa Conferene League?) 100 more games in the CL.  The calendar is bad enough, now adding more games?
2) ESL clubs want more money and wants UEFA to be the regulators not a commercial partner.  Basically the clubs want more of the revenue.
3) FIFA and UEFA hold the registrations of all players.  No league can be formed without them. This can not move forward without them.  

In the end I think this is all a negotatiation tactic and will lead to a revamped CL.  Who knows how it will look though.

 
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And interesting timing on the Jose decision.  They are in the league cup finals on the weekend, a chance for Spurs to get a trophy.  Do they not want Jose to get one?

 
Desert_Power said:
I think the bold is largely true, assuming the leagues/UEFA/FIFA don't actually pull off banning these teams or players. The cool thing about CL/Europa league is that you have to qualify every year. The downside is that there are a ton of teams in it that have no realistic chance.

What it does is entrench the existing powers. Maybe that doesn't matter in Spain as it is hard to see what could ever dislodge the top 3 right now. Juventus (until this year) won 8 straight. PSG 7 of the last 8. Bayern the last 8.

English fans have the most to complain about here. City is running away with the EPL, but there is a lot of competition for the European spots. Their recent massive contract has really allowed the mid-table teams to compete and elevate their game. Based on results, Leicester has as much a claim as Arsenal. When have Spurs won anything that makes them worthy of a permanent inclusions? It solely is down to their branding. And I think that is what is what people are reacting to. I also think AC Milan is in that bucket.

:2cents:  
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Is 8 points "running away with"?  ;)

Sinn Fein said:
I think in the end - the volatility in the PL is what is a big driving force here.  The "elite" teams want to minimize the risk of not making CL.  Their wage structure depends on the huge spike in revenue from CL, and when an off-year hits - it really hurts those teams, even more than a team like Spurs.

So when you have 7-8 teams capable of a top-4 finish, the teams with the money at the top, don't like to share, and can't really afford to share.
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I think this may play a part.  But some articles I've seen indicate its more about the share of the money between the clubs and UEFA in the CL.  Either way, its still all about the  :moneybag:

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think in the end - the volatility in the PL is what is a big driving force here.  The "elite" teams want to minimize the risk of not making CL.  Their wage structure depends on the huge spike in revenue from CL, and when an off-year hits - it really hurts those teams, even more than a team like Spurs.

So when you have 7-8 teams capable of a top-4 finish, the teams with the money at the top, don't like to share, and can't really afford to share.
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And the Americans that bought these clubs expect a return on their investment that isn't coming. Of course, football clubs shouldn't be investment vehicles. 

 
shader said:
Amazing how people are siding with uefa and fifa against greed.

There are many elements I don’t like about the super league, but those two corrupt organizations and their empty threats aren’t an issue.  Man City and their team of lawyers walked all over uefa last summer, you think they are scared now?
 

Every team involved just got a bucket of money. Uefa and fifa are powerless and if they follow through on their threats, who cares. The Qatar WC is an absolute travesty anyway.
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Yea I’m not going to side with FIFA on anything. 
 

As a neutral US fan I find the champions league incredibly boring until the end. This truly sucks for the smaller teams but they’ve all been seemingly pushed aside for decades now. What’s changed. 

 
Desert_Power said:
And the Americans that bought these clubs expect a return on their investment that isn't coming. Of course, football clubs shouldn't be investment vehicles. 
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This is really it.  The Americans are trying to NFL-ize and MLS-ize European football.  The problem, for them, is that it's already existed for 130 years with a fully developed infrastructure and pyramid below.  And also that the fans have a completely different relationship with the teams than they do in the US today.

 
Desert_Power said:
And the Americans that bought these clubs expect a return on their investment that isn't coming. Of course, football clubs shouldn't be investment vehicles. 
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Everyone of these owners have already gotten huge returns.  Hell, the ManU's been the Glazer's best ever investment.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Everyone of these owners have already gotten huge returns.  Hell, the ManU's been the Glazer's best ever investment.
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Right - but what they want is similar to the NFL model - a money printing press with no downside risk.

If United (or say, Arsenal) go on a multi-year run with no CL - that is a financial burden to even those clubs, because they set the wage structure with a certain revenue stream projected.  When you miss out on a huge chunk of that - it hurts even the biggest clubs.

 
Sinn Fein said:
The foundation of the Premier League in English football occurred in the early 1990s.

The first major step to its formation occurred in October 1990, when the managing director of London Weekend Television (LWT) Greg Dykemet with the representatives of the "big five" clubs - David Dein of Arsenal, Philip Carter of Everton, Noel White of Liverpool, Martin Edwards of Manchester United and Irving Scholar of Tottenham Hotspur.[1] The meeting was to pave the way for a breakaway from the Football League. Dyke believed that it would be more lucrative for ITV if only the larger clubs in the country were featured on national television and wanted to establish whether the clubs would be interested in a larger share of television rights money

Seems familiar.   :coffee:

The world did not end.  Football did not collapse.
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Except the structure of the PL ended up only a like for like renaming of the existing first division.

The teams didn't leave. And promotion/relegation remained. So yeah...the world and soccer didn't collapse because it was the same thing with a different name.

 
El Floppo said:
Except the structure of the PL ended up only a like for like renaming of the existing first division.

The teams didn't leave. And promotion/relegation remained. So yeah...the world and soccer didn't collapse because it was the same thing with a different name.
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Well, lets wait for this to settle out.

We have only just seen the first salvo.

 
El Floppo said:
I don't see a possible outcome that doesn't drastically screw the local leagues, players and fans. Do you?
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Agree. 

I'm so happy Dortmund turned down the ESL.  I already have some Dortmund gear from the Pulisic days.  If this ESL crap comes to fruition I'll just burn my Spurs gear and go full in Dortmund.  

 
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