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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (14 Viewers)

Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
Awful to hear. They really couldn't have waited?
Their expectations surpass what their bank account can provide. They simply don't have the money to regularly break into the top 4.

It's going to be an impossible job for anyone.
This seems right to me. Not really sure what Rodgers was supposed to do. Every year he loses good starters in the transfer market and has to refill by buying aging vets or unproven prospects.

To be fair, he's whiffed on his fair share of them, who was the last in-their-prime star to transfer IN to Liverpool? Suarez, if you're being generous -- but he wasn't SUAREZ when he came either.

I hope I'm wrong, but other than the odd year every decade or so when the stars align it's hard to see how Liverpool break into the title talk on a regular basis without a lot more cash.

 
Serie A update: bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Inter are solid bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.
:lmao:

:oldunsure:

On a thread that is probably 70% EPL, 10% MLS, 10% FIFA bull####, 5% La Liga, I can handle Kafka's Serie A updates, and Mjolnirs' Bundesliga Bayern updates

 
don't forget- I'm an Inter fan... so I love Kafka's Serie A comments too.... just made to take out the irrelevant bits.

 
Roadkill: Southampton high-five!
:hifive: That was my favorite match in two plus seasons of watching Saints. Recall that they had dominated a decent Swansea team the week before, so they're on a little roll. Virgil has really solidified the defense and let the middies attack with abandon. Midway through the second half Saturday, Oscar, Hazard and Cesc had clearly wearied of it all.

But we've been here before. They're still too thin to run with the big dogs.

 
Serie A update: The league is living up to its nickname: "Commedia dell'arte". I always give the EPL grief, fully knowing Serie A shortcomings as well (i.e.-media, performances, melodrama, etc,etc,etc..) but this year has been a delight, unlike Roma's inconsistency. I cannot remember a more wide open season; there is a number of teams with a legitimate shot at the Scudetto, & I don't see any separation soon. Fiorentina have been playing beautiful team football, with the sum being greater than the parts; Inter are tactically solid, with all steel in their midfield; Juventus will be there at the end, due in large part to getting Marchisio & Khedira finally healthy, along with under-rated Morata; and then you have the inconsistent "Southerners"...Napoli & Roma, who, despite all their flair & talent, always wilt under pressure. The revelation of the season has to be Napoli's Lorenzo Insigne; he has been magnificent. Hopefully he can carry his form over to the Azzuri; aside from Veratti, the team lacks imagination/inspiration.
Inisgne has turned into a total beast of a #10 for me in FIFA. Big fan of the little guy.

 
@Jon_LeGossip: According to Tutto Mercato Web, PSG's Zlatan Ibrahimovic could move to MLS' Orlando City SC next summer. Contact already established.

 
I did my best to avoid seeing Pirlo in an MLS jersey. Then I accidentally did, and it was just as sad as I figured it would be. Zlatan would be even tougher.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't. Now they do.

Why is the board deluded to want to challenge for titles?

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe. They have more history than any team in the epl aside from ManU.

New stadium, huge club, rich history. Why should they settle for less than what the fans and club desire?

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.

Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao:

Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!

 
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Why shouldn't Liverpool management and supporters have their goal be to win the league? There should be no surprise they are unhappy finishing outside the top 4. It's historically the most successful English club, and were unlucky not to win the league two years ago. I don't necessarily agree win firing Rogers, but surely Henry, et al should have the league title as their goal every season, with the minimum being top four.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Why is the board deluded to want to challenge for titles?

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe. They have more history than any team in the epl aside from ManU.

New stadium, huge club, rich history. Why should they settle for less than what the fans and club desire?
Wage bills for last year: Seems like Pool is right about where they should be: http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-wage-bills-club-by-club/

:shrug:

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Why shouldn't Liverpool management and supporters have their goal be to win the league? There should be no surprise they are unhappy finishing outside the top 4. It's historically the most successful English club, and were unlucky not to win the league two years ago. I don't necessarily agree win firing Rogers, but surely Henry, et al should have the league title as their goal every season, with the minimum being top four.
:shrug: they have as many EPL titles as QPR.

I think having a league title as your goal is a bit unrealistic for Liverpool. I'd say their goal should be top-4, and if things fall right they can be in contention for a title. But, they are nowhere close to that right now (title contenders).

 
"This ref is giving out cards like it's a bodily function"

Classic Ray
I love/hate Ray...he once described Hulk scrambling in the box "like a cat on a hot tin roof!"...I was just like, "No way Ray"....of all the strikers to use that analogy on...
 
Sinn Fein said:
shader said:
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao: Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!
In 2009 Liverpool was ranked first In Europe

 
Sinn Fein said:
shader said:
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao: Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!
In 2009 Liverpool was ranked first In Europe
By whom/in what?

When you say something like that, you need to define what you're talking about.

As near as I can tell, you're talking about Rafa's best year when Liverpool finished second in the EPL with 86 pts and a +50 goal differential and Liverpool lost in the Champions League quarter finals to Chelsea. They were never ranked "first in Europe," by any metric in that time. They were fifth in the Deloitte Money League in 2009. They are now 9th.

 
Sinn Fein said:
shader said:
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao: Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!
In 2009 Liverpool was ranked first In Europe
By whom/in what?

When you say something like that, you need to define what you're talking about.

As near as I can tell, you're talking about Rafa's best year when Liverpool finished second in the EPL with 86 pts and a +50 goal differential and Liverpool lost in the Champions League quarter finals to Chelsea. They were never ranked "first in Europe," by any metric in that time. They were fifth in the Deloitte Money League in 2009. They are now 9th.
online poll at RAWK

 
Sinn Fein said:
shader said:
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao: Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!
In 2009 Liverpool was ranked first In Europe
By whom/in what?

When you say something like that, you need to define what you're talking about.

As near as I can tell, you're talking about Rafa's best year when Liverpool finished second in the EPL with 86 pts and a +50 goal differential and Liverpool lost in the Champions League quarter finals to Chelsea. They were never ranked "first in Europe," by any metric in that time. They were fifth in the Deloitte Money League in 2009. They are now 9th.
From a UEFA coefficient* stand point they peaked at number 2.In 2006, ranked 6th

In 2007, ranked 3rd

In 2008, ranked 3rd

In 2009, ranked 2nd (tied)

In 2010, ranked 4th (tied)

In 2011, ranked 5th

In 2012, ranked 11th

In 2013, ranked 17th

In 2014, ranked 32nd

In 2015, ranked 42nd

For 2016, curently ranked 55th

*running 5 year average

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2009.html

 
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Sinn Fein said:
shader said:
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao: Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!
In 2009 Liverpool was ranked first In Europe
let him go...he's obsessed with Spurs finishing ahead of Liverpool even if it was for 12th/13th

small club mentality :o

 
http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/lfc-news/2009/liverpool-back-to-number-one-in-uefa-ranking/

I don't know that they stayed at 1 for a long time, but they were 1 for a short period.
That sounds right as they finished that year at number 2.
And right now they are #55, right behind the world powers of Racing Genk and APOEL Nicosia. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Check my previous post and you can see the slip year to year since they peaked.

Of course UEFA Coefficients really don't tell the correct story since I am pretty sure most would agree that if you dropped Liverpool into leagues like Belgium and Cyprus, they would win them easily.

 
Sinn Fein said:
shader said:
Sinn Fein said:
Meh, I think this just confirms that Liverpool, the board, and the their supporters are deluded, not just Brendan.

Liverpool are about where they should be. They'll do well enough to finish top-6 again, and with Chelsea's struggles, Liverpool will be in the mix for a top-4 spot, but certainly not a given with the quality of the mid-table squads like Southampton, Everton, Palace, and even Swansea and West Ham.
I think this is a way over the top. The difference in Liverpool and the "big four" isn't nearly as big as people say. My opinion is that the big four have elite coaching and Liverpool doesn't.Now they do.

Rodgers spent 300M and outspent Arsenal and Chelsea this year.

5-6 years ago Liverpool was ranked #1 in Europe.
:lmao: Including this season, Liverpool have only finished ahead of Spurs once in the last 7 years.

15/16 -1 point

14/15 -2

13/14 +15

12/13 -11

11/12 -17

10/11 -4

09/10 -7

:lmao: tops in Europe

Those are things you read about in the history books.

ETA - nobody confuses Spurs with "best in Europe"....Yet!!
In 2009 Liverpool was ranked first In Europe
let him go...he's obsessed with Spurs finishing ahead of Liverpool even if it was for 12th/13th

small club mentality :o
:cough:

Jamie Carragher

:cough:

 
http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/lfc-news/2009/liverpool-back-to-number-one-in-uefa-ranking/

I don't know that they stayed at 1 for a long time, but they were 1 for a short period.
That sounds right as they finished that year at number 2.
And right now they are #55, right behind the world powers of Racing Genk and APOEL Nicosia. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Which is exactly my point. Liverpool has fallen off a cliff in Europe and domestically (despite the great 2013-2014).

But like any sports team that has a history of success, the fans want to return. They want to challenge for titles at home and in Europe.

Jurgen Klopp won the Bundesliga twice and made it to the CL finals at Dortmund. Liverpool has a lot more money than Dortmund. I think Liverpool fans have a right to want success and to hope that it comes.

Ironically, this feels all so similar to something that happened in a more redneck part of the world a few years back. A beast coach was brought in to a team with "ridiculous aspirations" and a "delusional fanbase". He restored the glory of that college football team. Yeah, English football is a lot different than college football, but fans aren't going to change. They want to win. A great coach, combined with a stadium expansion and a "potentially" regular run of CL appearances should help Liverpool close the gap financially until that's not a factor anymore.

 
btw - Spurs have not finished below 6th since the 08/09 season...

Spurs are not a top-4 squad. They are a top-6 squad

Liverpool used to be a top-4 squad, then ManCity spent like a drunken sailor, then FFP started, and now Liverpool are in the same boat as Spurs - on the outside looking in - big enough to see the top-4, but not big enough to bust through for good.

I don't fully understand how they have eased the FFP rules this year, but of the top-4, I'd say Chelsea look vulnerable as they have gotten old quickly, and may not be able to spend the money to fix the problem. I'd guess that the Liverpool board sees this same window of opportunity and hence the managerial change. Teh problem is that there are several "good" squads so that the top-4 is in reach for Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton, and even squads like Palace, West Ham, Soton and Swansea can go on a run - particularly with no European matches to distract.

 
another one of these... (espn)

Samir Nasri says he would like to play in Major League Soccer once his time at Manchester City is finished.

Nasri, 28, joined City in 2011 and signed a new five-year contract with the Premier League leaders in July 2014, but said he was open to playing in America in the future.

"I like the English league a lot and my life in England," he told the J+1 programme on French TV channel Canal+ Sport. "Afterwards, I'm thinking more about playing in MLS -- to discover something different -- rather than going back to France."
 
btw - Spurs have not finished below 6th since the 08/09 season...

Spurs are not a top-4 squad. They are a top-6 squad

Liverpool used to be a top-4 squad, then ManCity spent like a drunken sailor, then FFP started, and now Liverpool are in the same boat as Spurs - on the outside looking in - big enough to see the top-4, but not big enough to bust through for good.

I don't fully understand how they have eased the FFP rules this year, but of the top-4, I'd say Chelsea look vulnerable as they have gotten old quickly, and may not be able to spend the money to fix the problem. I'd guess that the Liverpool board sees this same window of opportunity and hence the managerial change. Teh problem is that there are several "good" squads so that the top-4 is in reach for Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton, and even squads like Palace, West Ham, Soton and Swansea can go on a run - particularly with no European matches to distract.
I know that the "top four" squads have been at the top for the past 4-5 years, but it hasn't always been that way. I don't think it's inevitable that Liverpool and Tottenham are outside of the top four. Liverpool is upgrading their stadium, Tottenham is building a new one, and both stand to benefit from the massive TV contract.

There are only so many stud players to go around. The teams at the top of the EPL may have a lot of money, but they still aren't getting the best of the best, imo.

When I look at things (albeit with the perspective of someone in his second year of following this great game), I see Barcelona, Real and Bayern scooping up all the elite talent.

Even Man City's "spending spree" was really just a purchase of young and mostly unproven players. KDB had one great year in the Bundesliga, and Sterling is not and has never been a proven stud. So Man City spent big, but they didn't get superstars.

I think the TV contract has brought a lot of really good players to the EPL, but not necessarily to the top four. Payet, Ayew, Mahrez,Shaqiri, etc. This makes the mid to bottom of the league better, which puts pressure on the top four.

The top four, on the other hand, aren't really all that better than they were last year. They may be the four best teams in England, over the past half decade, but they aren't out grabbing the best studs in the world. This is evidenced by a pretty pathetic European record in recent years.

So while we joke about the differences in Liverpool and Tottenham, I think the truth is that more and more parity is coming to the EPL, and teams like Liverpool and Tottenham have a legit shot to make the CL each and every year.

Great coaching will be a major factor, and Liverpool fans will be pumped out of their minds when Klopp signs.

See you in a week and a half! :)

 
btw - Spurs have not finished below 6th since the 08/09 season...

Spurs are not a top-4 squad. They are a top-6 squad

Liverpool used to be a top-4 squad, then ManCity spent like a drunken sailor, then FFP started, and now Liverpool are in the same boat as Spurs - on the outside looking in - big enough to see the top-4, but not big enough to bust through for good.

I don't fully understand how they have eased the FFP rules this year, but of the top-4, I'd say Chelsea look vulnerable as they have gotten old quickly, and may not be able to spend the money to fix the problem. I'd guess that the Liverpool board sees this same window of opportunity and hence the managerial change. Teh problem is that there are several "good" squads so that the top-4 is in reach for Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton, and even squads like Palace, West Ham, Soton and Swansea can go on a run - particularly with no European matches to distract.
I know that the "top four" squads have been at the top for the past 4-5 years, but it hasn't always been that way. I don't think it's inevitable that Liverpool and Tottenham are outside of the top four. Liverpool is upgrading their stadium, Tottenham is building a new one, and both stand to benefit from the massive TV contract.

There are only so many stud players to go around. The teams at the top of the EPL may have a lot of money, but they still aren't getting the best of the best, imo.

When I look at things (albeit with the perspective of someone in his second year of following this great game), I see Barcelona, Real and Bayern scooping up all the elite talent.

Even Man City's "spending spree" was really just a purchase of young and mostly unproven players. KDB had one great year in the Bundesliga, and Sterling is not and has never been a proven stud. So Man City spent big, but they didn't get superstars.

I think the TV contract has brought a lot of really good players to the EPL, but not necessarily to the top four. Payet, Ayew, Mahrez,Shaqiri, etc. This makes the mid to bottom of the league better, which puts pressure on the top four.

The top four, on the other hand, aren't really all that better than they were last year. They may be the four best teams in England, over the past half decade, but they aren't out grabbing the best studs in the world. This is evidenced by a pretty pathetic European record in recent years.

So while we joke about the differences in Liverpool and Tottenham, I think the truth is that more and more parity is coming to the EPL, and teams like Liverpool and Tottenham have a legit shot to make the CL each and every year.

Great coaching will be a major factor, and Liverpool fans will be pumped out of their minds when Klopp signs.

See you in a week and a half! :)
I think when Sinn refers to City's spending spree, he's referring not to this past transfer window but the last 5 years in aggregate.

The EPL certainly has more parity than the other big leagues, but let's not delude ourselves here. Liverpool and Tottenham (you can throw Arsenal in here too) aren't going to challenge for a title on a consistent basis. Top 4, sure. But don't go around acting like Top 4 is some big trophy...that's what other people tease Arsenal fans for. 2013-14 was a lovely season for Liverpool, but I'm moderately certain that in today's EPL world, it was an anomaly. They got hot and won 11 games in a row and still finished 2nd. The top 7-8 teams have money. The top 2 teams have ####-around money. Yeah, yeah FFP and all that.

 
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