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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (6 Viewers)

gianmarco said:
Not trying to be rude, but can someone explain to me the updates on MK Dons and why some of you follow them or are fans? Is there something special about them I'm unaware of or are there personal ties or what?
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Cliff's notes:

Wimbledon was an old club (like 1800s old), and had a strong local fan base.  But was a fairly small club overall.

In the 80s they worked their way up to the PL (before it was the PL) and finished top-10 a few years running.  And won the FA Cup in 1988 -- beating Liverpool with a famously violent and dangerous band of thugs and lunatics.

In the early 2000s the owners petitioned to move the team to Milton Keynes, and it was granted.

MK is nowhere near Wimbledon (Wikipedia tells me it's 56 miles), and the club's supporters rebelled and formed AFC Wimbledon.  So MK Dons are the old Wimbledon FC and AFC Wimbledon are the new club, but truer to the roots of the old club.  I forget the details, but the supporters have done some creative things to funnel money into the club and the ties are especially tight.

Anyhow, AFCW have risen through the ranks of English football very quickly -- going from non-league to League 2 (the 4th division) in something like seven years.    And they are currently in contention for a promotion playoff spot.  Which, if they won, would see them rise to League 1 (the 3rd division).

With the MK Dons dropping from the Championship to League 1 for next season it raises the possibility that they will play each other.  Still pretty unlikely, but now possible.

Mostly it's just a good story, but Eephus is also a fan of Wimbledon FC/AFC Wimbledon.

 
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Right, so AFC Wimbledon is essentially owned by the supporters:

AFC Wimbledon Limited is 100% owned by AFCW PLC which is, in turn, 77% owned by Wimbledon Football Club Supporters Society Limited, generally known as 'The Dons Trust'. No individual has a significant interest in either The Dons Trust or AFCW PLC.

Details here.
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I'm sorry...I just can't see how someone can support a team with Suarez & Neymar, yet alone Pique.  They constantly dive & then surround the ref, begging for favors.  It is seemingly integrated into the team's DNA (even after Pedro left)...pathetic..not to mention, the obviously  offside 2nd goal.  It's hard to actually appreciate their talent, with all that #####-### embellishment.  

 
Kafka said:
I'm sorry...I just can't see how someone can support a team with Suarez & Neymar, yet alone Pique.  They constantly dive & then surround the ref, begging for favors.  It is seemingly integrated into the team's DNA (even after Pedro left)...pathetic..not to mention, the obviously  offside 2nd goal.  It's hard to actually appreciate their talent, with all that #####-### embellishment.  
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So Barca supporters should stop supporting their club because of a couple new players? Everyone can make their own choices on this, but it doesn't work that way for me. 

 
Kafka said:
I'm sorry...I just can't see how someone can support a team with Suarez & Neymar, yet alone Pique.  They constantly dive & then surround the ref, begging for favors.  It is seemingly integrated into the team's DNA (even after Pedro left)...pathetic..not to mention, the obviously  offside 2nd goal.  It's hard to actually appreciate their talent, with all that #####-### embellishment.  
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Sounds like almost every club in Europe :shrug:  

 
Happy for Leicester, but this was a game they had to win.

 A draw or loss here would have been a disaster for them.  

Essentially, Tott has to win their last four (a long shot anyway) and Leicester needed to drop 5 points.  

For Tott fans, they will be hoping for a ManU victory next week and then a Chelsea draw on the final weekend.

This game just reinforces the fact that Tott has to win out.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
So Barca supporters should stop supporting their club because of a couple new players? Everyone can make their own choices on this, but it doesn't work that way for me. 
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Mea Culpa.  That was harsh...and like CGRdr said...

reported myself.

 
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I'm pretty much over the whole MK thing.  I don't like the meaningless Dons suffix but I suppose it serves as a reminder for future generations.   The 90s were a traumatic time in soccer economics and the groundshare with Palace wasn't a good situation.  There were plenty of villains in the saga and Pete Winkelman was just the guy whose evil scheme was successful.  Sam Hamman tried to move the club to Dublin when WFC was still in the Premier League.  When that fell through, he sold the Plough Lane ground for development as a supermarket.  He sold the club to the Norwegians who had little interest in the club as anything more than a distressed asset.  Their front man was the despised Charles Koppel who cut the deal with Winkelman and pressed the move through a corrupt approval process.

Regardless of what happens in this year's playoffs, AFC Wimbledon is the happiest of endings.  AFC did what MK should have done and built a club from the bottom up.  WFC had done it before in the 70s and 80s.  AFC's supporters group has done things the right way and avoided the internal conflicts that have plagued similar clubs like FC United of Manchester.  The redevelopment plans for Plough Lane seem to be moving forward which should complete the cycle of the rags to riches to uncertainty to despair to rags to more sustainable riches story. 

MK appear to have plateaued for the moment as a League 1 side.  They've never captured the affections of the more transient suburban residents of MK and ranked near the bottom of Championship attendance.  AFC will have to manage their funds carefully to simultaneously develop the ground and team but League 1 seems achievable.  Hopefully it'll be next year but the AFC Wimbledon have maintained a stronger long-term vision than clubs ten times their size.

 
Reading (and being educated for the first time on) the story of MK Dons/AFC Wimbledon, I can't wait until Stan Kroenke tries to move Arsenal to Paris. :lmao:  

 
Brady Marino said:
Reading (and being educated for the first time on) the story of MK Dons/AFC Wimbledon, I can't wait until Stan Kroenke tries to move Arsenal to Paris. :lmao:  
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The 90s were a perfect storm for economic speculation in the English game.  The Taylor Report either rendered existing stadiums obsolete or forced massive renovations.  The birth of the Premier League and PPV television deals tipped the balance heavily toward the haves   There was a lot of turnover in ownership, particularly with foreign owners who had little connection with club or community.  The latter two are still happening and there's a cautionary story every year or two of a team that flew too close to the sun.  But thankfully there hasn't been another Wimbledon situation, in part because the country has so many teams in a small area.  There's no Oklahoma City or Los Angeles with an empty stadium and/or government handouts looking for a team.  When the Dons moved, MK was the largest area in England without a Football League side.  I have no idea who replaced them on the list but they probably don't have the size or economic clout of Milton Keynes or more correctly, Bletchley.

 
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Eephus said:
I'm going off this one article as an example of how disagreements among supporter-based ownership groups can affect a team.  While I'm sure there have been plenty of arguments at AFC Wimbledon, the Trust has managed to keep a pretty united public front and remarkable commitment to their long-term vision.

ETA:  Another more comprehensive article
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Thanks. To be sure, I wear the thickest pair of supporter ownership goggles here, but I had read that Guardian article before and just chalked it up to the normal messy pushing and pulling of democratic organizations.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Short lists for Player of the Year released:

PFA PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Harry Kane (Spurs)

N'golo Kante (Leicester City)

Riyad Mahrez (Leicester City)

Mesut Ozil (Arsenal)

Dimitri Payet (West Ham)

Jamie Vardy (Leicester City)

PFA YOUNG PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Dele Alli (Spurs)

Ross Barkley (Everton)

Jack Butland (Stoke)

Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool)

Harry Kane (Spurs)

Romelu Lukaku (Everton)

Could be a Spurs double, but I think Kane edges Vardy for Player of the year - assuming Kane stays ahead of Vardy for the Golden Boot, and Lukaku edges Alli for Young Player of the Year.
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Mahrez - POTY

Alli - YPOTY

 
Sebowski is going to need a cigarette after reading this

=============

footballitalia‏@footballitalia

Max Allegri: “Next year we must target winning the Champions League. It’s reductive to focus just on Serie A.”

 
Bonzai said:
:fro:
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:rant:  I mean  :pickle: !!!

He is so bad and his last two goals have been both important and poorly taken at the same time.  And listening to the announcers gush over him they have obviously not been watching.  The attack in the first half was so much fun to watch, even Rooney pinging balls all over the park was working with the kids running and showing creativity and skill.  Fellaini kills all runs and momentum.  He has no vision and seems to not know what to do with the ball until it gets to him.  He is a reactionary player not an anticipatory player.  He is no threat in the air as the announcers would have you believe.  IF Mata or Herrera had been in for Fellaini it would have been much much better.  LVG says he wants a quick creative player?  He has 3 that he hates to use (Mata, Herrera, Perreira).  Rooney has lost his left foot.  BUT he did look good in the MF role.  He may be able to work as part of a 4-1-4-1 with a partner in the attacking mid.  He does work hard although he has lost some pace.  His save off the line early was fantastic.  Great hustle back.

On to the final!

In EPL news... United are 5 back of Arsenal and City and have a game in hand.  United have Leicester, Norwich, West Ham, Bournemouth.  Not sure who Arsenal and City have other then each other.  IF United win out, the loser of the City/Arsenal game would be out of the CL spots.  Can United win out?  

 
NewlyRetired said:
Sebowski is going to need a cigarette after reading this

=============

footballitalia‏@footballitalia

Max Allegri: “Next year we must target winning the Champions League. It’s reductive to focus just on Serie A.”
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Easier to say when you're just about to clinch your 5th straight Serie A title. Juvy and PSG are in the same boat.  Nobody is going to give them credit for any domestic success anymore.  The league is literally the minimum expectation.  A league/cup double won't excite anyone.  Their domestic dominance just reduces the prestige of their domestic leagues.

 
Safe to say that Liverpool's and City's runs combined with the Italians all being out of Europe protects the EPL's 4th CL spot for the indefinite future?  (Did I already ask this?)

 
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Nainggolan! ...in the 89th...to beat Napoli...with a move started by a delightful chip from Totti, to find the requisite space...to break a 0-0 deadlock...that might determine Serie A 2nd place(auto CL) as opposed to 3rd (CL playoff)...& consequentially convince ASR ownership to tell Chelsea to F- off when it comes to Radja :wub: ...(& Pjanic, for that matter)...SAY NO: TO PJANIC IN THE STREETS OF LONDON!...

....who's with me?

 
ETA: ..."in the house that Jack built"...

Man, I love me some Nainggolan.

 
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Kafka said:
Nainggolan! ...in the 89th...to beat Napoli...with a move started by a delightful chip from Totti, to find the requisite space...to break a 0-0 deadlock...that might determine Serie A 2nd place(auto CL) as opposed to 3rd (CL playoff)...& consequentially convince ASR ownership to tell Chelsea to F- off when it comes to Radja :wub: ...(& Pjanic, for that matter)...SAY NO: TO PJANIC IN THE STREETS OF LONDON!...

....who's with me?
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I'm sure you're even more excited to have clinched the title for Juve.

P.S. Don't **** on my dream, man.

 
wdcrob said:
Safe to say that Liverpool's and City's runs combined with the Italians all being out of Europe protects the EPL's 4th CL spot for the indefinite future?  (Did I already ask this?)
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As of today this is where the numbers stand

England: 75.784*

Italy: 70.439

==================

For fun, lets assume England picks up no more points this year, so next year the points will start at

England: 60.534*

Italy: 59.082

So if England really wants more security, they need extra points from Liverpool and Man City this year else next year it starts as a near dead heat (which will still favor England since they have more teams in Europe).

=======================

* I think the formula actually allows teams to gain points just from playing the later round games so these two numbers will be slightly bigger for England since Liverpool and Man City still have games left even if they lose out.

In short England is in a good spot.

 
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It is also worth noting the coefficient system is a look ahead model.

Even if Italy surpass England next year, it won't have any effect until the 2018-2019 season.

Note that I made some extra comments to be more accurate in the post above for those that missed the edit.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
As of today this is where the numbers stand

England: 75.784*

Italy: 70.439

==================

For fun, lets assume England picks up no more points this year, so next year the points will start at

England: 60.534*

Italy: 59.082

So if England really wants more security, they need extra points from Liverpool and Man City this year else next year it starts as a near dead heat (which will still favor England since they have more teams in Europe).

=======================

* I think the formula actually allows teams to gain points just from playing the later round games so these two numbers will be slightly bigger for England since Liverpool and Man City still have games left even if they lose out.

In short England is in a good spot.
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That part is not exactly true - the annual coefficients are averaged among the teams participating.  They are not cumulative totals that reward more participation.

England will likely be hurt by Leicester's participation - given that they are not likely going to have a deep enough team to compete - but if they can get a couple of wins against the 4th pot team, that should help.

Palace winning the FA cup and the Europa spot probably won't help either.

 
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