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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (7 Viewers)

shader said:
I think Pulisic is a pipe dream because why would he leave in January when he has CL this year.  Maybe in the summer, but even then I just don't think it will happen, despite all the "links".

As for the professional development, I'd imagine being under Klopp would be the best professional development someone could ask for.  Klopp cultivates talent and enjoys coaching players and seeing them get better.  I can't think of a better environment for the kid.
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Agreed there's no place in the soccer world comparable to training under Klopp in terms of professional development, but I'd be concerned he'd have to compete with Lazar Messi Markovic for minutes.

 
Sebowski said:
-Shader 2015
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When i came on board as a Liverpool fan, i was all in on the Rodgers hype, primarily because the fanbase had lost their minds.  I turned on him after 3/4 of a season.  I wasn't a big fan.  

Klopp is a proven commodity.  Won two bundesliga titles with BD, made it to finals of CL, and has turned Liverpool around from being kind of a joke, to a team legitimately competing for titles.

As for Klopp's ability to develop players, that's crystal clear on this team.  Firmino, Origi, Lallana, Henderson, Lovren....those guys were going nowhere under Brendan.  Klopp has turned them into really good players, plus he has a history of doing this.

Look, Pulisic is going to be fine at Borussia or at Liverpool.  I just don't think it's all that risky for him to go work under Klopp, who all things considered is a better and more proven coach than Tuchel.

 
NewlyRetired said:
ignoring the money part it would be near insane for him to move right now.  The development system, the availability of significant game time, the quality of the league the quality of the team, Champions League...

You can't draw it up any better than that if we tried for an 18 year old American.
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I agree that it would be insane to move in January.  Primarily because of the Champions League.  Borussia will likely play in more games than Liverpool.  I do worry about CP's playing time now that Reus is back, but they have enough games where he will continue to develop.  Liverpool simply don't have enough games and so while he'd get great training, would he play enough?  Possibly with Mane away for AFCON, but bottom line is he plays more at Borussia this season.

As for next year?  I'm not optimistic, as my earlier post said, but if he came, i'd be ecstatic.  But there are connections there with Klopp and there's been a lot of smoke on this.  I certainly wouldn't be scared for CP if he came to Liverpool and was playing in the CL next season.

 
Klopp didn't develop any of those guys.  Firmino had been one of the best AMs in the Bundesliga for three seasons with Hoffenheim.  Lallana and Lovren were bought for over 20 million pounds a piece due to their reputations at Southampton.  Henderson broke through in his second season with Rodgers (and had been bought for nearly 20 million pounds after leading the Premiere League in chances created with Sunderland).  Origi is a young player getting fewer minutes than Pulisic gets now.

Under Tuchel, Pulisic is one of four teenagers receiving big minutes at Dortmund (Dembele, Mor, and Passlack are the others).  Julian Weigl, the anchor of their midfield, is 21.  No team of even remotely similar prestige plays as many young players. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Klopp didn't develop any of those guys.  Firmino had been one of the best AMs in the Bundesliga for three seasons with Hoffenheim.  Lallana and Lovren were bought for over 20 million pounds a piece due to their reputations at Southampton.  Henderson broke through in his second season with Rodgers (and had been bought for nearly 20 million pounds after leading the Premiere League in chances created with Sunderland).  Origi is a young player getting fewer minutes than Pulisic gets now.

Under Tuchel, Pulisic is one of four teenagers receiving big minutes at Dortmund (Dembele, Mor, and Passlack are the others).  Julian Weigl, the anchor of their midfield, is 21.  No team of even remotely similar prestige plays as many young players. 
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I suppose my point is that he got them playing to the best of their abilities, as opposed to the crap we had previously seen from them.

Klopp has a pretty great history of developing guys.  I thought this was a pretty uncontroversial statement, but apparently not. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
ignoring the money part it would be near insane for him to move right now.  The development system, the availability of significant game time, the quality of the league the quality of the team, Champions League...

You can't draw it up any better than that if we tried for an 18 year old American.
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Also, BvB has a Footbonaut

There's no Footbonaut in Merseyside.

 
shader said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Klopp didn't develop any of those guys.  Firmino had been one of the best AMs in the Bundesliga for three seasons with Hoffenheim.  Lallana and Lovren were bought for over 20 million pounds a piece due to their reputations at Southampton.  Henderson broke through in his second season with Rodgers (and had been bought for nearly 20 million pounds after leading the Premiere League in chances created with Sunderland).  Origi is a young player getting fewer minutes than Pulisic gets now.

Under Tuchel, Pulisic is one of four teenagers receiving big minutes at Dortmund (Dembele, Mor, and Passlack are the others).  Julian Weigl, the anchor of their midfield, is 21.  No team of even remotely similar prestige plays as many young players. 
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I suppose my point is that he got them playing to the best of their abilities, as opposed to the crap we had previously seen from them.

Klopp has a pretty great history of developing guys.  I thought this was a pretty uncontroversial statement, but apparently not. 
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:lmao:

 
El Floppo said:
hard to argue with the professional development he and the rest of the youngsters are getting at BD
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:goodposting: Thomas Tuchel probably gives him the same, or better, development opportunity as Klopp long term. If (big if) there's a move I think it has to be for a lot of money. I don't think Pulisic would want to move in January either, with Dortmund still in the CL. 30 million pounds at least, and joining in the summer, maybe...

 
Nice touch in light of the tragedy in Brazil: Liverpool is giving Lucas the armband against Leeds (Leeds Leeds).

P.S. I wish Leeds was putting a little less focus on the league today :kicksrock:  

 
Jaysus said:
Nice touch in light of the tragedy in Brazil: Liverpool is giving Lucas the armband against Leeds (Leeds Leeds).

P.S. I wish Leeds was putting a little less focus on the league today :kicksrock:  
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It's a terrible story, but a lot of clubs have made some pretty awesome gestures.  PSG is giving them 40 million Euros.  All the other top level Brazilian teams have promised to let players go on loan there for free.  Obviously the loss to the families is the biggest issue, but this could have sent the team in an economic death spiral so this stuff really helps. 

 
shader said:
I suppose my point is that he got them playing to the best of their abilities, as opposed to the crap we had previously seen from them.

Klopp has a pretty great history of developing guys.  I thought this was a pretty uncontroversial statement, but apparently not. 
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Don't worry.

If you say develop people automatically think only youth players develop. 

Klopp 100% developed Lovren and Lallana

Hendo came into his own before Klopp, so we'll see where he goes from here. 

Origi will benefit the most. He's already clutch when called upon. Also, Klopp set up Origi's diet/training while he was Lille. Huge difference in physique from the before and after, too. 

 
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The Gator said:
Don't worry.

If you say develop people automatically think only youth players develop. 

Klopp 100% developed Lovren and Lallana

Hendo came into his own before Klopp, so we'll see where he goes from here. 

Origi will benefit the most. He's already clutch when called upon. Also, Klopp set up Origi's diet/training while he was Lille. Huge difference in physic from the before and after, too. 
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"develop"

lols

 
Liverpool will get another 2 young attackers over the next two transfer windows.  I'm sure both will be really helpful for the squad headed into next year.  Will one be Pulisic?  I'd love it, but I am skeptical.

But I'd LOVE to see some of you guys forced to start rooting for Liverpool goals.  

 
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The Gator said:
Don't worry.

If you say develop people automatically think only youth players develop. 

Klopp 100% developed Lovren and Lallana

Hendo came into his own before Klopp, so we'll see where he goes from here. 

Origi will benefit the most. He's already clutch when called upon. Also, Klopp set up Origi's diet/training while he was Lille. Huge difference in physic from the before and after, too. 
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I don't think getting senior internationals to play better for you than for the previous coach qualifies as developing a player.  Dejan Lovren has been a senior international for Croatia since 2009.  Nobody is disputing that Klopp is an excellent manager who knows how to put players into positions where they will be successful.  That doesn't mean that he's changed their qualities as players.  Raheem Sterling didn't develop under Rodgers, devolve under Pelligrini, and then develop again under Pep Guaridola.  He's the same player with the same qualities.  He's just flourishing in the right situation.  

Milner is more influential for Liverpool than he was for City.  It's not because Klopp has made him better.  He's always been a very, very good player.  It's because Klopp is playing to his strengths. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think getting senior internationals to play better for you than for the previous coach qualifies as developing a player.  Dejan Lovren has been a senior international for Croatia since 2009.  Nobody is disputing that Klopp is an excellent manager who knows how to put players into positions where they will be successful.  That doesn't mean that he's changed their qualities as players.  Raheem Sterling didn't develop under Rodgers, devolve under Pelligrini, and then develop again under Pep Guaridola.  He's the same player with the same qualities.  He's just flourishing in the right situation.  

Milner is more influential for Liverpool than he was for City.  It's not because Klopp has made him better.  He's always been a very, very good player.  It's because Klopp is playing to his strengths. 
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I guess players are not influenced by any manager... ;)  Sterling was always a ####, developed more ####iness under Rodgers, and who cares about the level of ####iness now... :yawn:

With regards to Pulisic, I think he will be fine whatever he decides. There's no doubt the money is better in the premier league at the moment, and the kid is only 17/18. He still has a long way to go to be the 1st choice for either club.

 
Sammy3469 said:
In all seriousness, that's pretty cool.  Takes kicking the ball against the wall to another level.  
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I've gotten some mileage out of that video, posting it many times since I came across it a few years ago, but it took on new light last month when I saw that Mark Pulisic, Christian's dad, has been given the title "Director of Footbonaut" at Dortmund.

bonus footbonaut trivia: I once read Matts Hummels saying he's never stepped inside the thing (might have been Gundogan.)

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think getting senior internationals to play better for you than for the previous coach qualifies as developing a player.  Dejan Lovren has been a senior international for Croatia since 2009.  Nobody is disputing that Klopp is an excellent manager who knows how to put players into positions where they will be successful.  That doesn't mean that he's changed their qualities as players.  Raheem Sterling didn't develop under Rodgers, devolve under Pelligrini, and then develop again under Pep Guaridola.  He's the same player with the same qualities.  He's just flourishing in the right situation.  

Milner is more influential for Liverpool than he was for City.  It's not because Klopp has made him better.  He's always been a very, very good player.  It's because Klopp is playing to his strengths. 
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Of course it does, it's the definition of develop. Lallana and Lovren are night and day form before and after Klopp. He improved their qualities immensely .

Sterling sucks, your argument is invalid. ;)  Plus, not everyone can develop later in their career. I'm not saying Klopp has the midas touch, but whatever he touched on Lovren and Lallana worked.

Agreed on Milner, but nobody has said Klopp developed him, he is what he is. Lovren is no where close to what he was before. 

Also, not every vet develops..but Klopp got two important players to do it.  

 
charvik said:
I guess players are not influenced by any manager... ;)  Sterling was always a ####, developed more ####iness under Rodgers, and who cares about the level of ####iness now... :yawn:

With regards to Pulisic, I think he will be fine whatever he decides. There's no doubt the money is better in the premier league at the moment, and the kid is only 17/18. He still has a long way to go to be the 1st choice for either club.
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Pulisic generally has been the first choice RAM at Dortmund.  I think he's like fifth or sixth on the team in minutes.  Maybe that changes when Reus gets healthy.  Maybe not. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I don't think getting senior internationals to play better for you than for the previous coach qualifies as developing a player.  Dejan Lovren has been a senior international for Croatia since 2009.  Nobody is disputing that Klopp is an excellent manager who knows how to put players into positions where they will be successful.  That doesn't mean that he's changed their qualities as players.  Raheem Sterling didn't develop under Rodgers, devolve under Pelligrini, and then develop again under Pep Guaridola.  He's the same player with the same qualities.  He's just flourishing in the right situation.  

Milner is more influential for Liverpool than he was for City.  It's not because Klopp has made him better.  He's always been a very, very good player.  It's because Klopp is playing to his strengths. 
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I mean, if getting any player, veteran or otherwise, to play better  isn't "developing", I don't know what is.

You can't really look at Klopp at Liverpool to tout his long-term "developmental skills" anyway, which is what we're talking about with Pulisic.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Pulisic generally has been the first choice RAM at Dortmund.  I think he's like fifth or sixth on the team in minutes.  Maybe that changes when Reus gets healthy.  Maybe not. 
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You have to think Reus slots straight in when he returns... OTOH, Dortmund might decide to sell Reus on, and keep Pulisic in the starting role... who knows... the only thing that is a guarantee is that Dortmund will ask a TON for the player. Personally I don't think Klopp will be prepared to pay that for a prospect (even if he is a great one).

 
charvik said:
You have to think Reus slots straight in when he returns... OTOH, Dortmund might decide to sell Reus on, and keep Pulisic in the starting role... who knows... the only thing that is a guarantee is that Dortmund will ask a TON for the player. Personally I don't think Klopp will be prepared to pay that for a prospect (even if he is a great one).
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You are probably right.  Klopp walked away from a few deals because of money.  Personally, I think Pulisic is a marketing dream for any EPL team and Borussia knows it.  I'm one that thinks the 30M pricetag thrown around right now is far too low.  

More than anything, that's why I would be fine with Pulisic staying at Borussia.  No serious pressure there.  They love him already.  Going to England for 35M could put more pressure on him than he needs at 18-19 years of age.

 
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shader said:
You are probably right.  Klopp walked away from a few deals because of money.  Personally, I think Pulisic is a marketing dream for any EPL team and Borussia knows it.  I'm one that thinks the 30M pricetag thrown around right now is far too low.  

More than anything, that's why I would be fine with Pulisic staying at Borussia.  No serious pressure there.  They love him already.  Going to England for 35M could put more pressure on him than he needs at 18-19 years of age.
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I can see Tuchel letting Reus leave in the summer (likely to drum up a lot of money if there are no health concerns) if he feels Pulisic can develop. Should be no problem getting 40-50 for him from an EPL team.

 
shader said:
Liverpool will get another 2 young attackers over the next two transfer windows.  I'm sure both will be really helpful for the squad headed into next year.  Will one be Pulisic?  I'd love it, but I am skeptical.

But I'd LOVE to see some of you guys forced to start rooting for Liverpool goals.  
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This will never happen.  I can root for a player to do well while the team tanks and is relegated.  

 
shader said:
When i came on board as a Liverpool fan, i was all in on the Rodgers hype, primarily because the fanbase had lost their minds.  I turned on him after 3/4 of a season.  I wasn't a big fan.  

Klopp is a proven commodity.  Won two bundesliga titles with BD, made it to finals of CL, and has turned Liverpool around from being kind of a joke, to a team legitimately competing for titles.

As for Klopp's ability to develop players, that's crystal clear on this team.  Firmino, Origi, Lallana, Henderson, Lovren....those guys were going nowhere under Brendan.  Klopp has turned them into really good players, plus he has a history of doing this.

Look, Pulisic is going to be fine at Borussia or at Liverpool.  I just don't think it's all that risky for him to go work under Klopp, who all things considered is a better and more proven coach than Tuchel.
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Rodgers was a Gerrard slip away from being EPL Champs

 
CGRdrJoe said:
Rodgers was a Gerrard slip away from being EPL Champs
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And Mourinho won the EPL and then was fired the next year by Christmas.  Short leashes in this sport and Rodgers didn't do himself any favors with his arrogance in the media.

 
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Heard through the grapevine today that Theresa May is considering putting Pochettino in charge of Brexit, since he was successfully able to get Spurs out of Europe in just two months.

 
shader said:
And Mourinho won the EPL and then was fired the next year by Christmas.  Short leashes in this sport and Rodgers didn't do himself any favors with his arrogance in the media.
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maybe so but those are apples and oranges. TCO had the same team come back to him the next season so his expectations were the same. Rodgers lost his best player (jaws)and a living legend (banana peel stevie).

When you lose a player who scores almost a goal a game and replace him with nothing then you are looking at losing.

 
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shader said:
Klopp has a pretty great history of developing guys.  I thought this was a pretty uncontroversial statement, but apparently not. 
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You're right. You didn't say that to start though. You said this:

I'd imagine being under Klopp would be the best professional development someone could ask for
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