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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

El Floppo said:
thanks.

ESPN has their table set up strangely... with 5th place (arg) highlighted, implying that's the playoff spot.
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Actually, that appears to be right.  My mistake.  I realize Comnebol is only 10 teams, but only 4 guaranteed spots is absurd. 

So the SPI has the top 5 all with at least a 66% chance to qualify.  Nobody from 6 to 10 has over a 25% chance.  SPI seems to think Chile is most likely to fall to 5th and play the playoff.

 
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Can Coutinho to Barca still happen today? Or is it definitely DOA?  I assume Chelsea is still trying to close a sale of Costa to AtM today.

I'm still hoping to use the "Mahrez + Coutinho = Mourinho" joke, but haven't seen any Mahrez flight plans the past 24 hours. I know its not funny, so no need to point that out.

 
@Ramsay Hunt Experience and other Arsenal peeps.  Or anyone who has an opinion...

What's the scoop with AO-C?  Why'd he never break into the first team?  Best position?  How he might fit into Liverpool side?  Can he really play centrally?

 
Coutinho staying put

Suck it, Barca. 

On one hand, I'm glad this went down like this as it seems that Liverpool aren't just selling and want to do well.  But the lack of bolstering the defense is mind-boggling and goes against what I just said. 

 
gianmarco said:
Coutinho staying put

Suck it, Barca. 

On one hand, I'm glad this went down like this as it seems that Liverpool aren't just selling and want to do well.  But the lack of bolstering the defense is mind-boggling and goes against what I just said. 
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Also hearing that Alexis is going to basically pout/strike his way through the season.  So maybe those Coutinho and Giroud picks will work out!

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
@Ramsay Hunt Experience and other Arsenal peeps.  Or anyone who has an opinion...

What's the scoop with AO-C?  Why'd he never break into the first team?  Best position?  How he might fit into Liverpool side?  Can he really play centrally?
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For most of his tenure, I've felt that Ox would be best as two-way CM.  I feel that Ox lacks the final ball to be an elite winger, and Walcott is a more natural finisher/goal scorer.  He wasn't going to displace Alexis or Ozil.  He obviously doesn't want to be a wingback, even though I thought he showed real promise in that position.  But Arsenal isn't really setup to play a CM that way, which is one reason why Ramsey is used relatively little, despite being a great box to box goal scoring CM.  If Ox played CM, they'd need to let him play like Dele Alli, IMO. 

So I think the challenge with Ox has always been finding his best position for Arsenal.  Liverpool might be different.  I could see Klopp looking at his athleticism and just seeing a guy who will press the bejesus out of the opposing team.  So I think he could very well be back on the right for LFC. 

 
Overall, this was a pretty good deadline day. There weren't any unexpected blockbusters or crazy stories, and there were no appearances of marital aids in the media as far as I know.  But I think some intriguing storylines are in place for the season, several involving players who reportedly wanted to move but didn't. Generally speaking, the English clubs are more or less where they were a week or two ago, which I think is poised for a pretty fun year. There are a minimum of 4-5 who can legitimately win the league, and I think 7-8 with a decent shot at top 4.

 
I thought a couple of really interesting moves have stayed below the radar -- Origi's loan to Wolfsburg and Blaise Matuidi signing with Juventus. Juvie also got Douglas Costa and Howedes this cycle, they may be just as good as last year even without Bonucci.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
For most of his tenure, I've felt that Ox would be best as two-way CM.

I could see Klopp looking at his athleticism and just seeing a guy who will press the bejesus out of the opposing team.
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Kind of wondering if he's depth with/behind Can and Wijnaldum this year and then paired with Keita in place of a departing Can next year.  Henderson, Keita and Ox is a lot of RPMs in the midfield.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I thought a couple of really interesting moves have stayed below the radar -- Origi's loan to Wolfsburg and Blaise Matuidi signing with Juventus. Juvie also got Douglas Costa and Howedes this cycle, they may be just as good as last year even without Bonucci.
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Would love to see Origi do well.  As far as I know he never really complained about his situation and he could blossom in the right role.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Overall, this was a pretty good deadline day. There weren't any unexpected blockbusters or crazy stories, and there were no appearances of marital aids in the media as far as I know.  But I think some intriguing storylines are in place for the season, several involving players who reportedly wanted to move but didn't. Generally speaking, the English clubs are more or less where they were a week or two ago, which I think is poised for a pretty fun year. There are a minimum of 4-5 who can legitimately win the league, and I think 7-8 with a decent shot at top 4.
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I see 3 that can win the league - Man City, Man United and Chelsea

I see 5 that can finish top-4 - Liverpool and Spurs - but I don't see either as legitimate title contenders.  Liverpool have no defense, and Spurs have no home field.

Arsenal - could finish below Everton, but I don't see either contending for a top-4 spot.  I think Arsenal still have the talent - I just don't know if they can pull it together.  If Sanchez checks out, its going to be a long season.  I like what Everton are doing - but I don't think they have done enough to make it through the season as a top-4 contender.  If Rooney is a factor, Everton will not be...

ETA - I like what West Brom are doing, and I always have a soft-spot for Southampton - but neither have the horses to keep up with the top teams, and Leicester's Cinderella story ran out a couple of year ago - the devil is coming for his due... 

 
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roadkill1292 said:
I thought a couple of really interesting moves have stayed below the radar -- Origi's loan to Wolfsburg and Blaise Matuidi signing with Juventus. Juvie also got Douglas Costa and Howedes this cycle, they may be just as good as last year even without Bonucci.
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Don't forget Szcezny. Should create some great competition for the #1 shirt in Juve.

 
Argentina running 5th in Conmebol is a mystery but I still love watching all those great players..... and Fazio.

titters @Kafka

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Kind of wondering if he's depth with/behind Can and Wijnaldum this year and then paired with Keita in place of a departing Can next year.  Henderson, Keita and Ox is a lot of RPMs in the midfield.
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I heard when it went through that Liverpool viewed him as "the long term replacement for James Milner."  Which made me LOL.  I'm probably the biggest James Milner fan on this board, if not this planet, but  what a world and market we have when teams are paying 35 to 40 million for the eventually successor to James Milner. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
I see 3 that can win the league - Man City, Man United and Chelsea

I see 5 that can finish top-4 - Liverpool and Spurs - but I don't see either as legitimate title contenders.  Liverpool have no defense, and Spurs have no home field.

Arsenal - could finish below Everton, but I don't see either contending for a top-4 spot.  I think Arsenal still have the talent - I just don't know if they can pull it together.  If Sanchez checks out, its going to be a long season.  I like what Everton are doing - but I don't think they have done enough to make it through the season as a top-4 contender.  If Rooney is a factor, Everton will not be...

ETA - I like what West Brom are doing, and I always have a soft-spot for Southampton - but neither have the horses to keep up with the top teams, and Leicester's Cinderella story ran out a couple of year ago - the devil is coming for his due... 
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Grumpy Pundits was doing a segment on 1 word to describe your teams transfer window.  Everton supporter called in and said "Foundational".  I think I agree.  But to your point, they arent a top 4 team yet, need a striker.  Rooney may have some moments returning to his boyhood club but all in all he is going to get worse.  They need a goal scorer to emerge or come in.  Selling Lukaku probably keeps them down this year but if they can find one, they may have be able to move into that top 4 challenging group.

 
gianmarco said:
Coutinho staying put

Suck it, Barca. 

On one hand, I'm glad this went down like this as it seems that Liverpool aren't just selling and want to do well.  But the lack of bolstering the defense is mind-boggling and goes against what I just said. 
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It is pretty funny to see a club so happy about turning down such a ridiculous transfer value for a player who wanted to leave.

 
Slapdash said:
It is pretty funny to see a club so happy about turning down such a ridiculous transfer value for a player who wanted to leave.
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From the article Gianmarco posted in shaders LFC thread, it seems Henry and Liverpool are obsessed with proving to the world they're not a "selling club."  

 
CletiusMaximus said:
From the article Gianmarco posted in shaders LFC thread, it seems Henry and Liverpool are obsessed with proving to the world they're not a "selling club."  
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Not the "world", but more importantly other players and fans. You can never join the ranks of a Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern until the team has that kind of mentality.  Liverpool aren't there, but they will NEVER get there if they sell a Coutinho when he's going to hit his prime, especially to one of those teams.

When Barca can come and buy almost any player they want and get told no, there's some satisfaction to that.

 
gianmarco said:
Not the "world", but more importantly other players and fans. You can never join the ranks of a Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern until the team has that kind of mentality.  Liverpool aren't there, but they will NEVER get there if they sell a Coutinho when he's going to hit his prime, especially to one of those teams.

When Barca can come and buy almost any player they want and get told no, there's some satisfaction to that.
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I'm not sure there's anything Liverpool (or any other English club) can do to make a young South American player choose them over Barca or Madrid.  United was always going to lose CR and one day they'll lose De Gea.  SAF told CR to wait one more year and then he could leave  - the difference here is Klopp is not SAF and Liverpool are not as close to silverware as that United team was (or in the midst of winning).  I think Liverpool may regret not cashing in but if I'm a Liverpool fan I'm happy about how it worked out IF Coutinho plays his butt off and doesn't sulk.  I would imagine that will happen and maybe they win one of the domestic cups.  

ETA - before anybody says it - I know Portugal/Spain are not in South America

 
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CletiusMaximus said:
From the article Gianmarco posted in shaders LFC thread, it seems Henry and Liverpool are obsessed with proving to the world they're not a "selling club."  
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gianmarco said:
Not the "world", but more importantly other players and fans. You can never join the ranks of a Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern until the team has that kind of mentality.  Liverpool aren't there, but they will NEVER get there if they sell a Coutinho when he's going to hit his prime, especially to one of those teams.

When Barca can come and buy almost any player they want and get told no, there's some satisfaction to that.
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I understand the point, but you get there by winning and having success.  Not refusing to sell players.

Not like I really wanted Barcelona to overpay for Coutinho either.  The top of the EPL is going to be tight, maybe Liverpool can have more success than recent years.

 
gianmarco said:
Not the "world", but more importantly other players and fans. You can never join the ranks of a Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern until the team has that kind of mentality.  Liverpool aren't there, but they will NEVER get there if they sell a Coutinho when he's going to hit his prime, especially to one of those teams.

When Barca can come and buy almost any player they want and get told no, there's some satisfaction to that.
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Big clubs sell too when the offer is absurd. 

 
Sebowski said:
Big clubs sell too when the offer is absurd. 
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I agree. And financially it would have been a good decision for sure if the reported numbers were true, especially given how they've looked without him.

But making this decision sends a message to the team and to any players thinking of coming or going. They are interested in winning and keeping top tier players.  Even if that's not the actual reason.

They may end up regretting not taking the offer. But as a fan, I don't fault it one bit because it at least shows some dedication to the idea of winning and not just making money. 

 
gianmarco said:
Not the "world", but more importantly other players and fans. You can never join the ranks of a Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern until the team has that kind of mentality.  Liverpool aren't there, but they will NEVER get there if they sell a Coutinho when he's going to hit his prime, especially to one of those teams.

When Barca can come and buy almost any player they want and get told no, there's some satisfaction to that.
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I get the point but it seemed maybe a bit naive to draw a line in the sand the way Henry did. Even the biggest clubs will sell an unhappy player. Barca sold maradonna, Ronaldo, Ibra at their peak.  Bayern and Real have done the same many times. I think some players and particularly agents might view it as a negative rather than a sign of strength. 

 
gianmarco said:
I agree. And financially it would have been a good decision for sure if the reported numbers were true, especially given how they've looked without him.

But making this decision sends a message to the team and to any players thinking of coming or going. They are interested in winning and keeping top tier players.  Even if that's not the actual reason.

They may end up regretting not taking the offer. But as a fan, I don't fault it one bit because it at least shows some dedication to the idea of winning and not just making money. 
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Yep

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I get the point but it seemed maybe a bit naive to draw a line in the sand the way Henry did. Even the biggest clubs will sell an unhappy player. Barca sold maradonna, Ronaldo, Ibra at their peak.  Bayern and Real have done the same many times. I think some players and particularly agents might view it as a negative rather than a sign of strength. 
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If they make a habit of it, I agree. But one player (who really hasn't hit his prime yet), one time, I have no problem with. And I kind of like. Especially given the fact he just signed a 5-year contract in January.

 
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January 2017:

"I am very happy to sign a new contract here. It is a club that I am very grateful to and this shows my happiness here. I will work much harder to repay the belief shown in me.

"I signed this new contract to stay here for a few more years because it's a great honour for me. It gives me great happiness because I was welcomed here with open arms by everyone at the club and the supporters right from my first day. I am very thankful to this football club for everything."
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Suck it up, Phil.

 
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