YepNon-gamers: I want to hear from you
How would you rate the finale?
so I'm sure I'm missing some nuance and perhaps there is a new narrative coming that will have good storytelling but I don't know.
YepNon-gamers: I want to hear from you
How would you rate the finale?
so I'm sure I'm missing some nuance and perhaps there is a new narrative coming that will have good storytelling but I don't know.
To the bolded there isn't a ton of books that I have found that do this. Mostly going off of what I see on Amazon. I read these all the time and most are pretty bad and when they are EMP related they have a tendency to get a little weird politically and preachy about how the government stinks and people are lazy. This one was decent Lights Out if you go in with low expectationsNon-gamers: I want to hear from you
How would you rate the finale?
Honestly, I was kinda bored by it. Ellie's backstory of immunity is because pregnant mom got bit? Felt like they stole that from Blade. Then Joel has an awakening and kills Marlene and the Fireflies to save Ellie, who has become a stand-in for his daughter, dead 20 yrs? Some sort of 'I couldn't save her, but I can save you'! Eh. Now it seems the story has nowhere to go, having Joe and Ellie go from town to town and fight the infected and bad guys just to survive. Fun in a video game maybe, but limiting for a story. I say this having never played the video game and likely never will, so I'm sure I'm missing some nuance and perhaps there is a new narrative coming that will have good storytelling but I don't know.
I'm starting to feel zombie/infected stories have reached their end. And I say this as someone who has loved zombie stories. I'm ready for a new dystopian show, like America after an EMP attack. Big fan of the book One Second After by William R. Forstchen.
I have nipples, Greg, could you milk me?It's just a show/game, but it's worth noting that humans thrived for thousands of years without access to CVS. If there's one thing humans are good at, it's having kids and raising them.
Edit: See House of the Dragon for low-key, easy-to-watch takes on childbirth in a less technological era.
I am not here to argue this point. Was just something that I thought about. The baby was born and hasn't nursed at all. How long can a newborn go without anything at all -- they are in a post-apocalypse situation and seemingly in the middle of nowhere.
There are still breasts around
Yep. To be fair, TLOU is relatively original compared to a lot of programming in this genre. But George Romero already made the definitive treatment of "The zombies aren't the real enemy -- the real enemy is other people!" back in 1968. Too many people have been making basically the same movie over and over again for half a century now.I'm starting to feel zombie/infected stories have reached their end. And I say this as someone who has loved zombie stories. I'm ready for a new dystopian show, like America after an EMP attack. Big fan of the book One Second After by William R. Forstchen.
This makes me very angry because I want to say "the line" so bad and now I can't because it will be an auto-spoiler for every single person on this forum.Marshawn Lynch as Abbie's henchman in season two for the WLF
SPOILER REFERENCING TO PART II GAME, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU WANT TO SEE.
I'm almost positive somebody optioned it for a movie or series but it's never went anywhere. Huge fan of the series, would love to see it made into something like this.Big fan of the book One Second After by William R. Forstchen.
Yeah, that’s the video game part of it. If he has no idea he can’t even think about stopping it. I also thought the plan seemed hokey as well. Wouldn’t the cordecyp (sp?) die after removal? Couldn’t you get the protein out of Ellie without killing her? Wouldn’t it be better not to instantly kill her? I know it’s gotta work a certain way but it did make me wonder.Telling Joel about the operation was kind of reminiscent of the villains in James Bond telling him all their plans with enough time to stop the plan then tying him up loosely with no guards.
Joel taking them all out was not an issue, this plan to duplicate the cure sounded hokey and distributing it to people would never happen. Even if you did there are apparently millions of infected that would rip you apart. Head back to the town with Christmas lights and bacon, shore up that defense for that town, and ride out your time.
Her bite would be seen so need a plan for that story.
Bummed the series is over so quick.
I thought the last episode started out great - got very ridiculous (in a video game type way) when he was rescuing Ellie.Non-gamers: I want to hear from you
I thought it was dumb that some one was shooting at him every two seconds as he was trying to find Ellie, but once he did and had to carry her out no one approached him until the parking lot - he killed every single firefly there on the way in?You expected more fireworks than Joel going John Rambo?
Why?Ending was good but it made me hate Joel. F that guy, he’s the real villain now in my eyes.
He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to EllieWhy?
Every one in the buildingI thought it was dumb that some one was shooting at him every two seconds as he was trying to find Ellie, but once he did and had to carry her out no one approached him until the parking lot - he killed every single firefly there on the way in?You expected more fireworks than Joel going John Rambo?
Yep, this is the debate the creator wanted people to have.He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to EllieWhy?
That was lucky since once he was carrying her out he couldn't shoot anymore.Every one in the building
Were they "innocent"?He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to Ellie
I didnt get the sense that there were a ton of them there.That was lucky since once he was carrying her out he couldn't shoot anymore.Every one in the building
I’m not sure I’d call people holding him at gunpoint, shooting at him and if he hadn’t intervened ultimately killing Ellie are innocent.He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to EllieWhy?
Id say they were trying to save the world. Maybe shouldve gotten Ellie's consent though which makes it more debatable.Were they "innocent"?He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to Ellie
They only started shooting at him after he killed two of them. Did we watch the same show?I’m not sure I’d call people holding him at gunpoint, shooting at him and if he hadn’t intervened ultimately killing Ellie are innocent.He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to EllieWhy?
Thanks, I get that and I understand it’s based on a video game so no big deal at all. I enjoyed the season. I just thought that killing the only immune person without even trying to study the protein in her blood or spinal fluid, etc. makes more sense than killing her and her fungus friend on a hunch might be not so smart.Yeah, that’s the video game part of it. If he has no idea he can’t even think about stopping it. I also thought the plan seemed hokey as well. Wouldn’t the cordecyp (sp?) die after removal? Couldn’t you get the protein out of Ellie without killing her? Wouldn’t it be better not to instantly kill her? I know it’s gotta work a certain way but it did make me wonder.Telling Joel about the operation was kind of reminiscent of the villains in James Bond telling him all their plans with enough time to stop the plan then tying him up loosely with no guards.
Joel taking them all out was not an issue, this plan to duplicate the cure sounded hokey and distributing it to people would never happen. Even if you did there are apparently millions of infected that would rip you apart. Head back to the town with Christmas lights and bacon, shore up that defense for that town, and ride out your time.
Her bite would be seen so need a plan for that story.
Bummed the series is over so quick.
Might have been clearer if they'd stuck with the game wording. Joel: "But it grows all over the brain". Pretty much sends the signal that you can't just remove it without harming her brain.
If you remember what a Clicker looks like, all that on the head is the Cordyceps having grown out of their brain.
They were, but the way they went about it negates the "innocent" label, imo.Id say they were trying to save the world. Maybe shouldve gotten Ellie's consent though which makes it more debatable.
I think so. They were trying to keep him from getting to the operating room. I wouldn’t call them innocent. Righteous perhaps but they were going to murder Ellie. That’s not innocent to me.They only started shooting at him after he killed two of them. Did we watch the same show?I’m not sure I’d call people holding him at gunpoint, shooting at him and if he hadn’t intervened ultimately killing Ellie are innocent.He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to EllieWhy?
Yeah that was dumb. If their idea doesn’t work, they’ve killed any chance of trying something else.Thanks, I get that and I understand it’s based on a video game so no big deal at all. I enjoyed the season. I just thought that killing the only immune person without even trying to study the protein in her blood or spinal fluid, etc. makes more sense than killing her and her fungus friend on a hunch might be not so smart.Yeah, that’s the video game part of it. If he has no idea he can’t even think about stopping it. I also thought the plan seemed hokey as well. Wouldn’t the cordecyp (sp?) die after removal? Couldn’t you get the protein out of Ellie without killing her? Wouldn’t it be better not to instantly kill her? I know it’s gotta work a certain way but it did make me wonder.Telling Joel about the operation was kind of reminiscent of the villains in James Bond telling him all their plans with enough time to stop the plan then tying him up loosely with no guards.
Joel taking them all out was not an issue, this plan to duplicate the cure sounded hokey and distributing it to people would never happen. Even if you did there are apparently millions of infected that would rip you apart. Head back to the town with Christmas lights and bacon, shore up that defense for that town, and ride out your time.
Her bite would be seen so need a plan for that story.
Bummed the series is over so quick.
Might have been clearer if they'd stuck with the game wording. Joel: "But it grows all over the brain". Pretty much sends the signal that you can't just remove it without harming her brain.
If you remember what a Clicker looks like, all that on the head is the Cordyceps having grown out of their brain.
Then there was no reason to lie to her about it. He obviously saw it differently or he would have been honest.I think so. They were trying to keep him from getting to the operating room. I wouldn’t call them innocent. Righteous perhaps but they were going to murder Ellie. That’s not innocent to me.
You could say her murdered the doctor. But the rest of them...eh. They weren't blameless.He murdered a bunch of innocent people and straight up lied to EllieWhy?
It was a bit of a Catch 22. Be thought of as a rampaging monster or as a liar. Neither is a great option. He might not have picked the lesser of two evils.Then there was no reason to lie to her about it. He obviously saw it differently or he would have been honest.I think so. They were trying to keep him from getting to the operating room. I wouldn’t call them innocent. Righteous perhaps but they were going to murder Ellie. That’s not innocent to me.
YepAnd am I wrong or didn’t Ellie say if they were to keep on, it needed to be for a purpose. It needed to mean something and now he’s pretty much lied to her and said there is no hope anymore. Is that correct? I had a couple distractions last night to maybe I got that wrong.
He certainly picked the most self serving one. Plus she’s already seen him murder a ton of people so that’s not exactly going to be a shock. He just didn’t want to face the fact that Ellie might not have agreed with his choice and that he did all that out of his own selfish feelings, not about Ellie or any moral code.It was a bit of a Catch 22. Be thought of as a rampaging monster or as a liar. Neither is a great option. He might not have picked the lesser of two evils.
I like the fact that the ending is controversial in an intelligent way (not just "ambiguous" to drive engagement). I agree with your interpretation. Joel is an evil, bad person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and doomed humanity because of his selfishness.Ending was good but it made me hate Joel. F that guy, he’s the real villain now in my eyes.
Ellie was knocked unconscious in the game so they couldnt ask her. It was ambiguous in the show.They should have sat down and talked with Joel and Ellie, explain their plan and let her decide if she wants to go through with it. Without her consent, it’s murder. More than likely she goes through with it and is able to get Joel to accept her decision. Instead they try and strong arm both of them and they pay for it.
I don't know that I can call the self preservation instinct "evil".I like the fact that the ending is controversial in an intelligent way (not just "ambiguous" to drive engagement). I agree with your interpretation. Joel is an evil, bad person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and doomed humanity because of his selfishness.Ending was good but it made me hate Joel. F that guy, he’s the real villain now in my eyes.
Not sure if this came through in the show or not, but in the game, this becomes very obvious on subsequent playthroughs. During that very first opening scene, when Joel and Tommy are trying to get out town, Tommy is the one who is looking for out for other people, wants to pick up stranded motorists, etc. Joel is the one telling them to keep on driving and just look out for themselves. They set this ending up in the freaking prologue, and they do in a subtle way that people aren't going to notice on their first run. It's really well done.
or her didn't want to put that kind of pressure on here to decide "me v. everybody else".Then there was no reason to lie to her about it. He obviously saw it differently or he would have been honest.
The doctor said "I won't let you take her!" before Joel shot him.You could say her murdered the doctor. But the rest of them...eh. They weren't blameless.
Didn't the woman say they specifically didn't tell Ellie what they were doing (which is why Joel flipped) - she would fall asleep and feel no pain?It was ambiguous in the show.
And he grabbed a scalpel.The doctor said "I won't let you take her!" before Joel shot him.You could say her murdered the doctor. But the rest of them...eh. They weren't blameless.
Yes, they didn't tell her, but the way Ellie was acting seems like she may have "known" anyway?Didn't the woman say they specifically didn't tell Ellie what they were doing (which is why Joel flipped) - she would fall asleep and feel no pain?It was ambiguous in the show.
Still murder.The doctor said "I won't let you take her!" before Joel shot him.You could say her murdered the doctor. But the rest of them...eh. They weren't blameless.
Couldve shot him in leg or punched him in the face. Lets be honest here and admit he murdered the doctor. Joel has admitted to murdering others in the past as well so its not like he broke some moral code he had.And he grabbed a scalpel.The doctor said "I won't let you take her!" before Joel shot him.You could say her murdered the doctor. But the rest of them...eh. They weren't blameless.
then they are all murders. the point is the doctor wasn't "innocent" and it wasn't for no reason - the guy got in his way of saving Ellie and armed himself.Still murder.
He murdered every one at the facility technically - although I suppose there are some elements of "self-defense" and the defense of others that blur the lines.Lets be honest here and admit he murdered the doctor.
So he just keeps that pressure on himself and makes that decision for her? I think his decision was entirely based on his guilt for not saving his daughter and has almost nothing to do with Ellie and the medical situation.or her didn't want to put that kind of pressure on here to decide "me v. everybody else".Then there was no reason to lie to her about it. He obviously saw it differently or he would have been honest.
Kind of like when he was saying Ellie was too young to have had to kill some one - back in Kansas City.
He was the guy literally tasked with bringing her there for this purpose. He never thought that there could be repercussions to them using her as a Guinea pig for a cure? You think she hadn’t also thought of that?He murdered every one at the facility technically - although I suppose there are some elements of "self-defense" and the defense of others that blur the lines.Lets be honest here and admit he murdered the doctor.
Not a single person guessed the ending so hes not aloneHe was the guy literally tasked with bringing her there for this purpose. He never thought that there could be repercussions to them using her as a Guinea pig for a cure? You think she hadn’t also thought of that?He murdered every one at the facility technically - although I suppose there are some elements of "self-defense" and the defense of others that blur the lines.Lets be honest here and admit he murdered the doctor.
I'm not sure he anticipated them killing her as an "experiment" to see if they could find a cure.He was the guy literally tasked with bringing her there for this purpose. He never thought that there could be repercussions to them using her as a Guinea pig for a cure? You think she hadn’t also thought of that?