***OFFICIAL 'The Walking Dead' TV Series Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[tommyboy]

Momma dont like the governor. He got off easy

 

[flapgreen]

I'd be very surprised if Judith wasn't dead.

Spoiler

she isn't in the comics after the prison either, since she died with Lori in the shootout

I am torn, I'm glad they took some time this season to explore how the govnor works his way into power and is then able to get folk to go completely against their own moral compass. But still think it could have been wrapped up last season without the new group.

Enjoyed the episode, but also glad they are moving on from the prison

Yep. Was basically a do over of the same thing. Dragging this crap out for half the season hurt the show imo. It was the same thing as the end of last season. It was a good episode. I'm happy they're finally moving on. I'm not sure what killing the baby accomplishes, though. That is a very dark turn to take for a show like this. Rick will fall the rest of the way off the cliff now.

Did Rick's crew kill everyone from the other crew?

 

[flapgreen]

Seppy:

<snip>

(**) UPDATE: Lots of you are going with the "no body = no death" theory on Judith. And while she could turn up alive down the road, it was very strongly implied otherwise (bloody car seat, and why would anyone take her out of such a useful carrier in the first place?), and in the meantime, Rick and Carl are reacting as if she's dead, which brings us back to the point that they shouldn't have built this huge emotional turn on such a shaky foundation. Also, making characters believe the baby is dead if she isn't is a much cheaper trick than if it's an adult (like Carol last season).

Any parent who's ever tried to jog to a car to get out of the rain whilst dealing with one of those car seats will tell you - it's far, far easier to run holding a child than it is to run with one of those things. They're bulky, cumbersome and they throw your balance off tremendously - way more than running with just the kid on your hip. As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on whether or not Asskicker lived, but the car seat being left behind isn't a good reason to assume she didn't make it.

Agreed. The kids could have started to unbuckle her before Carol Jr. shot the lesbian chick. Tyrese got shot, so there was a good amount of blood coming from him, so maybe he went after the kids and grabbed Judith and the blood was his. Since there weren't any zombies right there chewing on her, there is definitely a chance she survived.The main thing I don't get is that Rick/Carl acting like she is dead is not something that IMHO proves she is dead. I would lean towards her being dead, but right now I see Tyrese as a plausible reason for her being alive and there being blood in the carrier.

Killing the baby would be dumb.

 

[flapgreen]

Glad the Governor is dead. He was always written very poorly and he isn't a good actor either. I didn't need to see the Guv convince another group of gullible idiots to follow his lead and kill people.

 

[flapgreen]

Mild-mannered Hershel dies, while Carl and his stupid hat live. Where is the justice???

i get the hate for carl in the beginning of the series but hes pretty awesome now

Yup. His character has become significantly stronger and more interesting now.I think many of us guessed Hershel would bite it at some point this season. Still sad to see him go.

I'm with you

 

[cstu]

'Walking Dead' Boss Talks Season 4: It's a 'Very Different' Conflict

10:00 AM PST 11/27/2013 by Lesley Goldberg

Showrunner Scott M. Gimple talks with THR about Rick vs. The Governor, round two: "It's a new story." Plus, how much will the AMC show follow the comics?

Fans of AMC's The Walking Dead may be experiencing a case of deja vu.

The third season of the zombie drama featured a dramatic story between Rick (Andrew Lincoln) and The Governor (David Morrissey), who, following repeated attempts to coexist, ultimately turned his gun on his own camp after killing Andrea (Laurie Holden) and Merele (Michael Rooker). The move marked a major departure from Robert Kirkman's comics, which serve as source material for the series, and prolonged The Governor's story that many thought would conclude in the third-season finale.

While season four has spent more time exploring The Governor's recent backstory and evolving characters including Rick, Carol (Melissa McBride) and Hershel (Scott Wilson), The Walking Dead has set up a midseason finale that largely seems to be telling the same Rick vs. The Governor story. Only this time, the beleaguered hero and eye-patched villain have more in common after returning to their respective leadership roles in a bid to protect their loved ones and communities.

"Any sort of Rick-Governor conflict is going to be a very different conflict -- if there is one," showrunner Scott M. Gimple tells The Hollywood Reporter. "If these two people [have a] showdown -- and God knows it certainly looks like that at the end of episode seven -- I would hope that they're two very different men who have gone through very different things."

Indeed they have: The Governor, following his deadly assault, attempted to start anew as "Brian," a peaceful guy who did everything in his power to not have to love again. Only all that changed when he met Megan, Lily and Tara and realized that love meant protecting his new family and becoming the man he once was, with the ability to kill those who endangered his group. Without the walls of Woodbury, The Governor has learned how difficult it is to exist in this world and has been keeping his brutal past under wraps and going by his real name: Brian.

Rick also attempted to turn his back on his leadership role with the prison group after taking in all the women and children remaining in Woodbury after Andrea's shocking death. That experience, however, didn't last long and he was thrust back into the position after a deadly flu outbreak, attacks on the prison and a mysterious person baiting walkers to the grounds by feeding them rats.

"One of them has tried to lay down his guns, tried to stop from being a leader, tried to pull his child back from the brutality of the world, tried to pull himself back from the brutality of the world and from the brutality of leadership," Gimple explains. "And we see him in the first episode [of season four] having achieved that, but it's all taken away from him bit by bit in those first five episodes. Carol tells him he can be a farmer but he can't just be a farmer."

"Rick is a different guy from the season-three finale and season-four premiere," he adds. "The Governor, from the beginning of [episode] 406 is very different guy. When these two guys meet, in some ways, they're meeting for the first time, and in some ways, it's a new story. The only way to achieve that is to tell a different story with those characters leading up to it."

Time will tell if Sunday's midseason finale will be the long-awaited bloody battle for the prison depicted in the comics -- during which Rick loses both his wife and young daughter. Should the AMC show opt to follow Kirkman's source material, it will be interesting to see if Brian's new love interest, Lily, is anything like her comic book namesake. During the battle in the comics, it was Lily who, under The Governor's orders, took aim at Lori and unbeknownst to her, killed a mother and her infant daughter. After The Governor kills Hershel, a distraught Lily winds up turning the gun on the psychopath and feeding him to walkers, putting an end to the deadly conflict. It's unclear if -- or how much -- the AMC adaption will follow the same story or if Morrissey's story will continue into the second half of season four considering he is signed on as a series regular. Then again, producers have always maintained that no one is safe on this show.

 

[Mile High]

I'd be very surprised if Judith wasn't dead.

Spoiler

she isn't in the comics after the prison either, since she died with Lori in the shootout

Spoiler

I am torn, I'm glad they took some time this season to explore how the govnor works his way into power and is then able to get folk to go completely against their own moral compass. But still think it could have been wrapped up last season without the new group.

Enjoyed the episode, but also glad they are moving on from the prison

Yep. Was basically a do over of the same thing. Dragging this crap out for half the season hurt the show imo. It was the same thing as the end of last season.It was a good episode. I'm happy they're finally moving on. I'm not sure what killing the baby accomplishes, though. That is a very dark turn to take for a show like this. Rick will fall the rest of the way off the cliff now.

Did Rick's crew kill everyone from the other crew?

Tara and Lilly might have lived.

 

[Mario Kart]

I think the new moral compass is going to be Carol. Now, you might ask yourself, "how can Carol be the moral compass?" The answer is because a new morality is upon the gang. Carol began to teach the kids this new morality so, "out with the old and in with the new." So, either Carol directly will be involved or she will be involved via the kids.

Judith will one day be queen of the land. She is the first born after the outbreak and her life will be the key to surviving. Judith is alive and was taken by the other kids when Ty told them to "go this way" and the kids went the other way. Judith is the key.

 

[Tecumseh]

I think the new moral compass is going to be Carol. Now, you might ask yourself, "how can Carol be the moral compass?" The answer is because a new morality is upon the gang. Carol began to teach the kids this new morality so, "out with the old and in with the new." So, either Carol directly will be involved or she will be involved via the kids.

Judith will one day be queen of the land. She is the first born after the outbreak and her life will be the key to surviving. Judith is alive and was taken by the other kids when Ty told them to "go this way" and the kids went the other way. Judith is the key.

Forgot about that. Good point.

 

[Daywalker]

Wonder why they didn't take off Hershel's head with one fell swoop. Would have been more dramatic.

 

[Raider Nation]

Wonder why the didn't take off Hershel's head with one fell swoop. Would have been more dramatic.

Too intense for a basic cable show, IMO. When it's a zombie, it's just.... different.

 

[dparker713]

I was really hoping the Guv would finish Rick before he got killed. That would have been great. I mean, how can you have a leader that doesn't tell those people that the guy they're fighting for killed his own army the last time he tried to take the prison? They'd be much better off with Daryl, Maggie or hell Carl as the leader.

BTW, that tank was kinda worthless. Sure, it smashed the fence, but the shots from its cannon were not towards any particular defenders.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

"Rrrrrraaaaaaggghhhh!"

-The last 232 pages of this thread.

 

[skol asylum]

No way Judith is dead, but is a plot device to show Rick lose it again.

I still want to know why no one has mentioned the radio signal they were picking up in the car a few episodes back. Seems like a pretty important event to me.

 

[tdoss]

So much dumb in these last few episodes...no since in really going over it...

And no way that baby is dead...how in the hell would a zombie unbuckle her from the car seat?

Oh wait...writers of this show don't give a crap about making sense...so, maybe she is dead. Although I doubt it. She's with the "Lord of the Flies Crew".

Really kinda wished Rick would've been choked all the way out before Guvna was killed...but I know this show can't have that for at least a few years.

Thankfully we're done with the Guvna...time to take it to the streets.

Although, if it were me...I retake that damn prison. All I need is one vehicle and a boombox. I'd have that prison back by nightfall.

 

[Wingnut]

That episode was rad.

 

[bushdocda]

I figure one of the little girls grabbed the baby after they shot the lesbian.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

I haven't seen a lesbian go down that fast since....I better not.

 

[Mario Kart]

I haven't seen a lesbian go down that fast since....I better not.

I haven't seen a lesbian get shot in the forehead like that... ever.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Shes dead. Got shot or ate by zombies.

Wondet if rick will find the group or have to start all over again

Zombies shoot now?

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

I haven't seen a lesbian go down that fast since....I better not.

I haven't seen a lesbian get shot in the forehead like that... ever.

Ha!

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I haven't seen a lesbian go down that fast since....I better not.

I haven't seen a lesbian get shot in the forehead like that... ever.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Holy s**t was that a great episode.

That's the attack on Woodbury we should've seen last season. Glad to see The Governor bite it and while I was hoping it would be Rick who got to off him it definitely worked that Michonne was the one to do it, saving Rick in the process.

So now that the Governor's dead it'll be interesting to see what the big threat will be in the second half of the season beyond mere survival.

It was a great episode and it sucks having to wait until February to see what happens next.

I hate that Herschal is gone too!

 

[Tackling Dummies]

We saw the awesomeness that was a zombie Merle and we were :thisclose: to a zombie Gov/Philip/Brian.

 

[Parrothead]

a zombie with an eye patch would have been cool

 

[flapgreen]

Did the Governor's crew kill a single person during either attack? That was pathetic.

 

[snogger]

IMO, this has been a very strong season. They had to build up to a reason for Rick's group to leave the prison and did a good job at that..

Had they just started the season with the group wandering around away from the prison, those complaining about the slowness of this season so far, would have been complaining that they left behind a "safe and secured" area..

Between the Sickness that almost took out the group, and now the Guv attacking and destroying the fencing, it gave the group the sense that no place is truly safe alone.

The only gripe I have is the radio transmission.

I know the next half of this season will backtrack to it now that they are on the run. But to not have Daryl talk to Rick about it and just leave it as a was a mistake..

As for someone wondering if the group will get back together.. They talked about a "rallying point" where those on the bus were suppose to head to.

Guessing the first episode in February will be the battle of the group to get to the Rally point and then decide to track down the radio transmission.

 

[packersfan]

I still want to know why no one has mentioned the radio signal they were picking up in the car a few episodes back. Seems like a pretty important event to me.

There's still half a season left.

 

[Disco Stu]

So much dumb in these last few episodes...no since in really going over it...

And no way that baby is dead...how in the hell would a zombie unbuckle her from the car seat?

Oh wait...writers of this show don't give a crap about making sense...so, maybe she is dead. Although I doubt it. She's with the "Lord of the Flies Crew".

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but just in case it isn't... A zombie wouldn't unbuckle her, he would eat her while she was still in the seat. Explains all the blood.

I think she's dead. Showing a baby being eaten by a zombie is just too dark, so it happened off camera.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Did the Governor's crew kill a single person during either attack? That was pathetic.

I see other posts in here about the poor shooting. I took it to show how inept and unprepared the Governor's new geoup was for battle, and just pointing out the fact that they were essentially led to the slaughter by the Guv.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

 

[snogger]

Did the Governor's crew kill a single person during either attack? That was pathetic.

I see other posts in here about the poor shooting. I took it to show how inept and unprepared the Governor's new geoup was for battle, and just pointing out the fact that they were essentially led to the slaughter by the Guv.

The group was, until the guv arrived, a peaceful group just trying to survive. Most probably hadn't shot anything but a stumbling zombie in their life.

 

[snogger]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.

Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

 

[Disco Stu]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

I think he knew a Herschel death (or threat of death) would carry more weight with Rick's group. Though as soon as the shooting starts, it would be a good idea to take out the ninja on your side of the fence ASAP. The gov wasn't quite in his right mind at that point though.

 

[MikeIke]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.

Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

She did help him up. He asked her where Carl was and she said she didn't know.

 

[snogger]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.

Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

She did help him up. He asked her where Carl was and she said she didn't know.

ah.. daughter was talking my ear off at that point so missed that part..

Still, why only help him up and then leave him to stumble his way to safety.. and just where did she need to get to in such a hurry.. Hair appointment?

 

[Tackling Dummies]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

I think he knew a Herschel death (or threat of death) would carry more weight with Rick's group. Though as soon as the shooting starts, it would be a good idea to take out the ninja on your side of the fence ASAP. The gov wasn't quite in his right mind at that point though.

I guess my thought was that Gov. had the floating heads in the fish tank, so he'd keep Michonne in a secure place as his torture plaything (like Andrea).

 

[stbugs]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.

Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

She did help him up. He asked her where Carl was and she said she didn't know.

Yeah, pretty sure she did as well. Not sure where she went though, I figured she would have stuck with him and Carl since everyone else had bailed already.

How many different groups do we have now?

1. Bus crew with Glen.

2. Michonne

3. Tyrese and the kids

4. Rick and Carl

5. Maggie and Beth

6. Daryl

I can't recall if 2, 3, 5 and 6 teamed up at all or had the chance to team up. Pretty sure 1, 3 and 4 were completely separate from anyone else, but 2, 5 and 6 could have easily gotten together even if we didn't see it because they left after the bus, but before Rick found Carl.

 

[packersfan]

I think One-Eyed Bri knew that killing an old, one-legged man would have a much more powerful effect on Rick than killing Michonne. He got the reaction he wanted. He wanted to push Rick into a war and that's what happened.

The lesbian getting plugged in the forehead by the little girl (who has to be the one skinning all the critters at the prison) was one of the best non-Walker kills in the show's history. The look on the lesbian's face when she saw the kids pointing guns at her was priceless. Then POW.

 

[dhockster]

Just curious. When the walkers came into the prison yard at the end, one of them was the chick that Rick had met in the woods, wasn't it?

 

[dhockster]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.

Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

She did help him up. He asked her where Carl was and she said she didn't know.

Yeah, pretty sure she did as well. Not sure where she went though, I figured she would have stuck with him and Carl since everyone else had bailed already.

How many different groups do we have now?

1. Bus crew with Glen.

2. Michonne

3. Tyrese and the kids

4. Rick and Carl

5. Maggie and Beth

6. Daryl

I can't recall if 2, 3, 5 and 6 teamed up at all or had the chance to team up. Pretty sure 1, 3 and 4 were completely separate from anyone else, but 2, 5 and 6 could have easily gotten together even if we didn't see it because they left after the bus, but before Rick found Carl.

Maggie is with Bob and Sasha. Beth is with Daryl.

 

[shadyridr]

Just curious. When the walkers came into the prison yard at the end, one of them was the chick that Rick had met in the woods, wasn't it?

They definitely slowed down on that walker and she had a similar jacket I think.

 

[packersfan]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.

Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

She did help him up. He asked her where Carl was and she said she didn't know.

Yeah, pretty sure she did as well. Not sure where she went though, I figured she would have stuck with him and Carl since everyone else had bailed already.

How many different groups do we have now?

1. Bus crew with Glen.

2. Michonne

3. Tyrese and the kids

4. Rick and Carl

5. Maggie and Beth

6. Daryl

I can't recall if 2, 3, 5 and 6 teamed up at all or had the chance to team up. Pretty sure 1, 3 and 4 were completely separate from anyone else, but 2, 5 and 6 could have easily gotten together even if we didn't see it because they left after the bus, but before Rick found Carl.

Maggie is with Bob and Sasha. Beth is with Daryl.

But she wants to be with Rick.

 

[snogger]

Just curious. When the walkers came into the prison yard at the end, one of them was the chick that Rick had met in the woods, wasn't it?

They definitely slowed down on that walker and she had a similar jacket I think.

Daughter and I looked at each other and asked "Are we suppose to know her? " then decided it had to be the woman in the woods that Rick met.

 

[ditka85]

Just curious. When the walkers came into the prison yard at the end, one of them was the chick that Rick had met in the woods, wasn't it?

They definitely slowed down on that walker and she had a similar jacket I think.

Daughter and I looked at each other and asked "Are we suppose to know her? " then decided it had to be the woman in the woods that Rick met.

I thought Kirkman confirmed this on Talking Dead?

 

[Zow]

So are we taking bets on whether Judith is dead?

I think she is (despite the strap issue and the fact that zombies seem to tend to just kneel over and messily eat but I'm just chalking that up to lack of continuity).

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Liked the zombie hand coming through the dirt reaching for Megan.

So, when does Carol show up again?

Daryl scores for (attempting) to tell Tyrese about Carol. Rick comes off looking like a 14 year-old about "how he'll take the news".

 

[flapgreen]

So, if Governor had such a hatred for Michonne, why kill Herschel instead? Kill/torture Michonne before heading to the fence and also take care of Herschel as well?

Because he knew that Herschel was more important to Rick and the group then Michonne. Taking out Herschel had the affect he wanted, the group shooting and an all out battle.Taking out Michonne would have been upsetting to Rick and the group, but pretty sure they don't open fire as there wasn't a personal tie to her as there was to Herschel.

The only part that still has me was...

Michonne stabs the Guv in the chest, stands over him and walks away... Leaving not only the Guv laying there, but Rick also..

Possibly she returned to her selfish ways.. but after the way she had been getting along with the group and Rick you'd figure she'd at least help Rick get to safety.

She did help him up. He asked her where Carl was and she said she didn't know.

ah.. daughter was talking my ear off at that point so missed that part..Still, why only help him up and then leave him to stumble his way to safety.. and just where did she need to get to in such a hurry.. Hair appointment?

Sounds like we're rubbing off on you some.

 

[Disco Stu]

Just curious. When the walkers came into the prison yard at the end, one of them was the chick that Rick had met in the woods, wasn't it?

They definitely slowed down on that walker and she had a similar jacket I think.

Daughter and I looked at each other and asked "Are we suppose to know her? " then decided it had to be the woman in the woods that Rick met.

I thought Kirkman confirmed this on Talking Dead?

He did. It was the Irish woman from the woods.

 

[Zow]

I think One-Eyed Bri knew that killing an old, one-legged man would have a much more powerful effect on Rick than killing Michonne. He got the reaction he wanted. He wanted to push Rick into a war and that's what happened.

Yeah I thought that scene was well done and well written. Rick finally displaying the philosophy Herschel yearned for, the Governor sensing the potential turnabout in his army, the realistic chop to Herschel's neck.

Pretty brutal battle for TV when you think about it. You have a kid shooting an attractive lesbian female (who really wasn't portrayed as a bad guy), Daryl killing the army dude in cold blood from a few feet away, a potential baby being eaten… I agree that some of the writing/continuity issues are glaringly dumb, but this show shares some of the fearless writing of Breaking Bad, Wire, etc.