***Official TNF CHIEFS v EAGLES game thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Judge Smails]

Vick always lets you down. Whether you're a fan of the team, FF owner, or both, he always has a few good games in a row then he breaks your heart with a multi turnover game, picks and fumbles a plenty. Ay yai yai.

That just looked like last year. Horrible decisions on some of his throws, other were terribly inaccurate, and several others were batted down or he hits his lineman in the head because he has no touch and throws so flat on short passes while staring down receivers. The are tough to guard on first down. 3rd down in obvious passing situations? Not so much. I thought Vick had turned the corner. Too much to ask.

 

[drummer]

I still can't believe the Eagles defense. The 49ers had Billy Davis @ DC from 2005 to 2007. I think Mike Nolan had to take over in '07 because Davis was that bad.

 

[Raider Nation]

To answer the first two questions raised by Kansas City’s 26-16 manhandling of Philadelphia Thursday night: Washington’s defense is that bad. And the Chiefs’ defense is that good … but the Eagles’ space-age offense is still more stoppable than anyone thought.The shock and awe from Week 1, when Chip Kelly’s college-rooted scheme sprinted up and down FedEx Field and rolled up 26 points on 53 first-half plays, has worn off. The national obsession with the number of plays and the running clock between snaps has faded. In 60 hideous, turnover-laden minutes on their home field Thursday, the Eagles scored 16 points.

There may not be a happy medium. Good, smart defenses like Kansas City’s clearly are capable of defusing Kelly’s plan. The Eagles are also capable of defusing themselves in baffling ways: a muffed punt, a telegraphed pass, a bad read of pass coverage, a center snapping the ball against his own buttock.

Even a two-point conversion try that was illogical and too clever for anyone’s good—not to mention unsuccessful at a time momentum was theirs to take.

In those instances, the innovative plan can unravel just as fast as those offensive plays are run.

Now, the Eagles have to counterpunch to the NFL’s counterpunch. Defensive coaches will now go from poring over old Oregon video and clips of the Washington game, to using the Chiefs’ game as a blueprint.

Andy Reid’s Kansas City squad is not the only one out there that strives not to beat itself. It has won its first three games against teams that have mastered beating themselves: Jacksonville, Dallas and now Philly.

Kelly correctly lamented the five turnovers Thursday, four by the offense. "We call them 'self-inflicted wounds," he said afterward. “We had too many of them to be a successful football team."

The up-tempo offense should be equipped to dilute the effect of turnovers, even early ones. The Eagles fell behind 10-0 purely because of the giveaways—but Michael Vick was scattershot all night, at least when receivers weren’t dropping passes. Vick was 13-for-30 and threw two interceptions, often for no other reason than his inaccuracy. He also could not solve the secondary’s coverage, and that led to most of his five sacks.

Linebacker Justin Houston got 3 ½ of those sacks on Vick. Stopping the Kelly offense, he said, was “just assignment football.” Vick agreed: “I don’t think their scheme was that complicated.” Quite an indictment, then, of an offense that was supposed to revolutionize the NFL well into the foreseeable future.

The revolution likely isn’t over yet; every week shouldn’t be like this. But a lot more will be like this than will be like Week 1.

Vick took “sole responsibility” for the offensive failures. He wasn’t even responsible for all the turnovers, and he almost singlehandedly set up the touchdown that got them on the board with his 61-yard run and subsequent scoring pass. But he definitely contributed to the mess as well.

LeSean McCoy wound up running for 158 yards and survived a first-half scare when he hurt his right leg. But he had little support, and after a late touchdown run gave the Eagles life, another factor emerged: their terrible defense.

The 8-minute 15-second drive that followed wrapped the game up for the Chiefs, even more decisively than the final fumble recovery. It featured a third-and-10 conversion from their own 5, and put a bow on the second straight week of the Eagles being beaten by a 2-to-1 margin in time of possession. The old tale about keeping a hot offense on the sideline where it can’t hurt you, came true.

In three games, the offense the NFL was ready to tear itself apart to figure out went from controlling a game with its pace and number of plays, to being forced to push the tempo because it was hardly ever on the field, to being neutralized and sinking itself.

Next week, the Eagles go to Denver. The Broncos’ offense has been the unstoppable one for a longer time. Kelly now has to push the buttons that brings his own innovative scheme up to speed.

Or find a button that sends them back in time to that Washington game.

 

[drummer]

For a scheme to be innovative, it has to work first, and then really work against the level of competition. The only way you can make a scheme work is through repetition, fundamentals, and discipline within the scheme. To have all that work as one means the coaches have to be innovative themselves teaching it to established professionals in the NFL. That also means they have to understand the game at this level, and know the basics of how this league works.

Andy Reid's defense pretty much negated anything Chip Kelly could do on offense, and Reid's offense was something ancient. Kelly's defense was atrocious. Of course like another poster pointed out, he has Reid's old defense to work with. But the Eagles defense was poor in fundamentals. They kept getting torched by one play. They were soft and couldn't tackle. The Eagles offense can be more explosive, yet there was no discipline within it. Kelley might have to scale back and figure out what he can do with his personnel, shrink the offense down a bit, grind the defense into watching film of this game, and just protect the ball.

He can start by figuring out how KC's offense could beat his defense.

 

[BobbyLayne]

McCoy's broken leg OK?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

then again...maybe it is

Yeah, he actually started to lose it before hitting the ground.

[[[Would have been nice to see a replay before the commercials.]]]

Are you people blind?

Don't think so... What are you inferring?

They replayed it 3 god dammed times before the commercial break

I guess I wasn't paying attention...

 

[HittinHard]

Impressed with Eric Berry,s play especially.

 

[Redwes25]

As a Giants fan all I can say after watching this game is I am so glad the eagles replaced Reid. Don't care if it was Kelly or someone else. That guy was/is a good football coach and removing him was a mistake. I was so happy they day the fired him and this game just proves that point.

 

[Insein]

As a Giants fan all I can say after watching this game is I am so glad the eagles replaced Reid. Don't care if it was Kelly or someone else. That guy was/is a good football coach and removing him was a mistake. I was so happy they day the fired him and this game just proves that point.

Uh huh. Proves the point that even with 5 turnovers the Eagles still had chances to win the game. That Andy is a great coach.

 

[EHRMAHGERD]

Looks like the league has Chip Kelly figured out already.

250+ yards rushing tonight vs one of the best looking defenses in the league, I wouldn't write him off yet

The sloppy play and turnovers killed them though. I'd figure with Reid coming back to Philly, the Eagles would had played more intense, but they just looked totally out if it.

Maybe they should slow it down.... LOL

 

[Redwes25]

As a Giants fan all I can say after watching this game is I am so glad the eagles replaced Reid. Don't care if it was Kelly or someone else. That guy was/is a good football coach and removing him was a mistake. I was so happy they day the fired him and this game just proves that point.

Uh huh. Proves the point that even with 5 turnovers the Eagles still had chances to win the game. That Andy is a great coach.

Mistake free football and defense that sacked vick 5 times lead to some of those turnovers. Who would have thought the chiefs would have started 3 and 0 last year after being the worst team in the league last year.

 

[fred_1_15301]

As a Giants fan all I can say after watching this game is I am so glad the eagles replaced Reid. Don't care if it was Kelly or someone else. That guy was/is a good football coach and removing him was a mistake. I was so happy they day the fired him and this game just proves that point.

Uh huh. Proves the point that even with 5 turnovers the Eagles still had chances to win the game. That Andy is a great coach.

Mistake free football and defense that sacked vick 5 times lead to some of those turnovers. Who would have thought the chiefs would have started 3 and 0 last year after being the worst team in the league last year.

Do you remember how bad the Eagles were last year with Reid as the coach? The team has a lot of issues and a QB who is simply turnover prone. Reid was not able to do anything about that either. Perhaps we should give Kelly a little bit of time to build his own team.........

 

[renesauz]

Alex Smith is now 23-6-1 as a starter since 2011.

but...but....I heard he sucks?

 

[renesauz]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

 

[Redwes25]

As a Giants fan all I can say after watching this game is I am so glad the eagles replaced Reid. Don't care if it was Kelly or someone else. That guy was/is a good football coach and removing him was a mistake. I was so happy they day the fired him and this game just proves that point.

Uh huh. Proves the point that even with 5 turnovers the Eagles still had chances to win the game. That Andy is a great coach.

Mistake free football and defense that sacked vick 5 times lead to some of those turnovers. Who would have thought the chiefs would have started 3 and 0 last year after being the worst team in the league last year.

Do you remember how bad the Eagles were last year with Reid as the coach? The team has a lot of issues and a QB who is simply turnover prone. Reid was not able to do anything about that either. Perhaps we should give Kelly a little bit of time to build his own team.........

Not saying Kelly or not is the solution as the Eagles have sucked but I am glad that Reid is gone.

 

[zed2283]

Alex Smith is now 23-6-1 as a starter since 2011.

but...but....I heard he sucks?

He does.

 

[msudaisy26]

Alex Smith is now 23-6-1 as a starter since 2011.

but...but....I heard he sucks?

He does.

People can't see past the fantasy part of the game, the quarterback has to be good at fantasy and win. People used to say the same stuff about Brady when he was winning super bowls but was only ranking in the top 12 of fantasy quarterbacks.

 

[Amused to Death]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

 

[ImTheScientist]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

 

[Amused to Death]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

Both offenses scored 16, Eagles had more yards.

 

[ImTheScientist]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

Both offenses scored 16, Eagles had more yards.

The score was 26 - 16 (take away the INT return if you want), that still leaves you at 20 points for the offense or 19 depending on how you look at it.

Even if you want to say 16-16 that is not being "outproduced", that is equal production.

 

[Amused to Death]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

Both offenses scored 16, Eagles had more yards.

The score was 26 - 16 (take away the INT return if you want), that still leaves you at 20 points for the offense or 19 depending on how you look at it.

Even if you want to say 16-16 that is not being "outproduced", that is equal production.

Yup, and I'm taking 10 pts away from the score because 1 was a defensive pick-6 and 3 pts was a gift wrapped FG where the offense actually lost yards before being forced to kick it. Shoulda had a gift TD but instead they went backwards. Don't get credit for that, imo.

 

[ImTheScientist]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

Both offenses scored 16, Eagles had more yards.

The score was 26 - 16 (take away the INT return if you want), that still leaves you at 20 points for the offense or 19 depending on how you look at it.

Even if you want to say 16-16 that is not being "outproduced", that is equal production.

Yup, and I'm taking 10 pts away from the score because 1 was a defensive pick-6 and 3 pts was a gift wrapped FG where the offense actually lost yards before being forced to kick it. Shoulda had a gift TD but instead they went backwards. Don't get credit for that, imo.

So they tied at 16 to 16. That is not outproduced.

 

[Amused to Death]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

Both offenses scored 16, Eagles had more yards.

The score was 26 - 16 (take away the INT return if you want), that still leaves you at 20 points for the offense or 19 depending on how you look at it.

Even if you want to say 16-16 that is not being "outproduced", that is equal production.

Yup, and I'm taking 10 pts away from the score because 1 was a defensive pick-6 and 3 pts was a gift wrapped FG where the offense actually lost yards before being forced to kick it. Shoulda had a gift TD but instead they went backwards. Don't get credit for that, imo.

So they tied at 16 to 16. That is not outproduced.

Same points, more yards, half the ToP. Keep up.

 

[ImTheScientist]

All the talk about the offense being shut down is ridiculous. The offense turned the ball over four times, and Vick played his worst game in quite a while...and they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. The KC defense is considered to be one of the best in the league, and the offense racked up how many yards?

The only thing that shut down the Eagles offense last night was the Eagles offense.

KCs D is considered one of the best; Philly's is considered one of the worst. Philly out-produced KC's offense in half the time of possession and its Philly's offense that's being shut down.

Production =/= Yards

Production = Points

Both offenses scored 16, Eagles had more yards.

The score was 26 - 16 (take away the INT return if you want), that still leaves you at 20 points for the offense or 19 depending on how you look at it.

Even if you want to say 16-16 that is not being "outproduced", that is equal production.

Yup, and I'm taking 10 pts away from the score because 1 was a defensive pick-6 and 3 pts was a gift wrapped FG where the offense actually lost yards before being forced to kick it. Shoulda had a gift TD but instead they went backwards. Don't get credit for that, imo.

So they tied at 16 to 16. That is not outproduced.

Same points, more yards, half the ToP. Keep up.

oh, i see. This is the game you make up yourself so you can sleep at night. Maybe next time punting yards should be added into the production category and serve as a tie breaker even though the real score of the game was 26-16.

I subtract 3 points from the Eagles offense because they gave the ball up 5 times. My final tally was 16-13 KC outproduces Philly.

 

[Amused to Death]

Same points, more yards, half the ToP. Keep up.

oh, i see. This is the game you make up yourself so you can sleep at night. Maybe next time punting yards should be added into the production category and serve as a tie breaker even though the real score of the game was 26-16.

I subtract 3 points from the Eagles offense because they gave the ball up 5 times. My final tally was 16-13 KC outproduces Philly.

OK. Anyway, 1 bad week where they still had more yards than KC...against a much better defense.

 

[Billy Bats]

As a Giants fan all I can say after watching this game is I am so glad the eagles replaced Reid. Don't care if it was Kelly or someone else. That guy was/is a good football coach and removing him was a mistake. I was so happy they day the fired him and this game just proves that point.

Yea he should've gotten a lifetime contract to coach the eagles. After 2 Super Bowls and 2 weeks into this season I'm reading Giants fans calling for Coughlin's and Eli's ouster.

 

[msudaisy26]

I guess we should go back and recompute all the games this year since defense and defensive scoring doesn't count in games anymore

 

[Amused to Death]

I guess we should go back and recompute all the games this year since defense and defensive scoring doesn't count in games anymore

Way to take it out of context. The discussion is about the OFFENSE. We were discussing the production of the OFFENSE.

 

[msudaisy26]

Ya but you can't hold it against an offense for playing differently because their defense is slowing down, stopping or giving you free points, that also changes the way the team will play their offense. So actually it is very relevant.

You can very easily say that Kansas City would have out produced the Eagles had their defense not given them an early lead and let them play ball control all night

 

[drummer]

Alex Smith is now 23-6-1 as a starter since 2011.

but...but....I heard he sucks?

He does.

People can't see past the fantasy part of the game, the quarterback has to be good at fantasy and win. People used to say the same stuff about Brady when he was winning super bowls but was only ranking in the top 12 of fantasy quarterbacks.

I don't play FF.